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OfflineGourmetShiitake
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Registered: 03/15/09
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Shitake Start Up! (help apreciated!)
    #9975699 - 03/15/09 11:05 AM (15 years, 16 days ago)

Hi everyone!

Im newly registered but i've probably been lurking this forum for about 4-5 years atleast. Never grown ''active'' mushrooms before. Don'
t want to risk it either. So shiitake it is. Actually in the long term i'm hoping to step up production and maybe do a little business growing edible shrooms. The Shiitake niche is stil not taken where im from. So why not...

So i think i've lurked enough so i think i got the basics down. Now first thing i would like to know is where should i obtain spores ? I'm interested in shiitake and i understand that there are quite many variations around. Im looking for the best quality in the taste department or whatever you guys think is suitable for a someone who has never grown mushrooms before. I have a green thumb so im basically aware of how life on this planet works lol..

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mr-Fothergills-Marvellous-Mushrooms-Shiitake-Grains_W0QQitemZ320338984815QQihZ011QQcategoryZ1512QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713.m153.l1262

Ok i think i can grow something from these right ? If i have the autoclave bags from sporeworks and the sawdust/woodchip mixture ? Or do i need a syringe or can i make a syringe from that product ? Is it even a quality product..etc..

Basically what i gather is this..

i need spores,
bags,
pressure cooker,
growing substrate,
and a somekind of a smaller greenhouse ? That's another thing im not clear on. What is the best way to grow the shiitake blocks once they are ready to fruit?

OK..enough for now..let's get the spore thing sorted and go from there..

Thanks a bunch!!

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OfflineABC
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Re: Shitake Start Up! (help apreciated!) [Re: GourmetShiitake]
    #9975732 - 03/15/09 11:15 AM (15 years, 16 days ago)

I think a culture (liquid culture, agar plate, or culture slant) will do you better than spores

Sawdust and woodchips:
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Sawdust-Woodchips

Those ebay shittake grains are probably really old, I dunno... I've never grown shittake

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OfflineGourmetShiitake
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Re: Shitake Start Up! (help apreciated!) [Re: ABC]
    #9986849 - 03/17/09 03:00 AM (15 years, 15 days ago)

Ok so did some more research and as i understand the best shiitake spores come from Aloha:

http://www.alohamedicinals.com/cultures.htm

But spore works also has some options:
http://sporeworks.com/store/catalog/Lentinula-edodes-Lentinus-edodes--Shiitake-Mushroom-p-16141.html

It's in the states and im in Europe. So it's probably too much trouble to have a culture ''slant'' shipped (not sure i understand what that is?!) But what about the culture syringe ?

What am i supposed to too with the culture syringe exactly ? inoculate some birdseed and use the colonized seed to ''inoculate'' the sawdust mixture ?...

If you know of any sites located in Europe that have good shitake spores/cultures whatever..do let me know.

Oh one more questions. Do you guys think i should just skip the rest and go straight for the Shiitake 75 from aloha ? Keeping in mind that im kind of low on the budget at the moment and i just want to get a feel for growing shiitake first..

Thanks..

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OfflineABC
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Re: Shitake Start Up! (help apreciated!) [Re: GourmetShiitake]
    #9988772 - 03/17/09 01:50 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

You're not buying spores, you will be buying culture, which is live mycelium that you will use to inoculate grain spawn (birdseed).

"Slants" are agar in a test tube. agar is the gelatin we use in petri dishes. I recommend using a syringe first, it would probably be more young/fresh mycelium anyway

So a liquid culture syringe to inoculate sterile birdseed, then used to inoculate sawdust/woodchip bags

I'd recommend buying a cheap one first. Just in case you lose it or something

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InvisibleJef
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Re: Shitake Start Up! (help apreciated!) [Re: ABC]
    #9989139 - 03/17/09 02:50 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

You could also start from tissue, fresh or dried from your local supermarket.

The instructions for starting from dry tissue are here on the site, or starting from fresh is even easier.

One of my neuroses is that I don't like to send away for things, so I started Oysters and King oysters this way.  Shitake are available here too, but I haven't wanted these yet.

Good luck with your grow.


--------------------
I am my own lab rat.


Tell me and I will forget. Show me and I will remember.  Involve me and I will learn.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Shitake Start Up! (help apreciated!) [Re: Jef]
    #9990093 - 03/17/09 05:01 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

Personally, I'd develop some basic fungi skills before you pony up $150 for a culture that you might lose.  Learn to do agar work and make master slants.  When you buy that culture, you want to be able to keep it forever, and thus you'll need to know how.  You'll want to use the slant to inoculate agar, which you'll use to inoculate grains, and also more slants to return to the refrigerator for storage. You'll use your fully colonized grains to inoculate sawdust/woodchip substrates to grow the actual shiitake fruits on. Good luck and welcome to the board.
RR


--------------------
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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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OfflineGourmetShiitake
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Re: Shitake Start Up! (help apreciated!) [Re: GourmetShiitake]
    #10343789 - 05/15/09 01:54 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

OK..i am ready to do some shopping. I have Ash tree sawdust and chips ready, my pressure cooker scouted out. Now it's time to get the spores and supplies. Here's a pic of what i've looked up so far. Let me know what i am missing. Bran and gypsym i can probably find from my local store.

Help me find the other stuff i need to find online or any hepful tips you think might help.

Cheers you are a great bunch..

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OfflineGourmetShiitake
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Re: Shitake Start Up! (help apreciated!) [Re: GourmetShiitake]
    #10343823 - 05/15/09 02:00 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Set Agar Medium Preperation "I"

This Set includes:
1 pcs. Erlenmayer flask, 500 ml, PP
1 pcs. Measuring Cup 500ml, PP, high chemical resistance
1 pack (20 pcs.) petri dishes PS, steril (Beta irradiated), 90 x 16,2 mm
1 meter Parafilm "M", width: 100 mm
20 pcs. latex gloves (please select your size below)
5 pcs. hairnet
5 pcs. facemask
1 pcs, Bacillol workspace desinfect 50 ml spray
1 pcs. Cutasept hand desinfect spray 50 ml (eudermic)

+ Do it your self! Agar ingredients for 5 liter instead

Autocalve Bag Unicorn 14 #

Autoclavable Bags with micro air filter for professional spawn / substrate production.
Type 14 # with lower gas exchange -
The proven bag for shiitake production!

Material: Polypropylene
Pores: 0.2 Microns

Dimension:
Length: 48 cm (19 inch)
Width: 20 cm (8 inch)
Gussets both sides: 5 cm (2 inch)
Bottom to filter: 30 cm (12 inch)
Each bag can be filled with approx. 2,5 - 3 kg spawn / susbrate!

Unicorn Bags produces a side-gusseted style that gives a sturdy stand-up bag after filling and a strong bottom seal. Manufactured with equipment we designed and with proprietary additives, Unicorn Bags are pliable at any temperature as well as after sterilization. The bag opening is designed for easy sealing and the bag's bottom seal can withstand agitation.

Autocalve Bag Unicorn 3 T

Autoclavable Bags with micro air filter for professional spawn / substrate production.
Type 3 T with higher gas exchange -
The proven bag for spwan production!

Material: Polypropylene
Pores: 0.2 Microns

Dimension:
Length: 48 cm (19 inch)
Width: 20 cm (8 inch)
Gussets both sides: 5 cm (2 inch)
Bottom to filter: 30 cm (12 inch)
Each bag can be filled with approx. 2,5 - 3 kg spawn / susbrate!

Unicorn Bags produces a side-gusseted style that gives a sturdy stand-up bag after filling and a strong bottom seal. Manufactured with equipment we designed and with proprietary additives, Unicorn Bags are pliable at any temperature as well as after sterilization. The bag opening is designed for easy sealing and the bag's bottom seal can withstand agitation.


Some info on the stuff.. oh and ofcourse the spores. All this is being ordered from http://www.mrcashop.org.

Oh i do not have an impulse sealer. Is there any way i can do without ? Maybe tie the bags ? Use some hot metal maybe ? Thanks again

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Offlinejoehinkle
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Re: Shitake Start Up! (help apreciated!) [Re: GourmetShiitake]
    #10344031 - 05/15/09 02:42 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

My suggestion is to STOP.

Do NOT Buy anything - Your questions suggest you have done little to no research.

Here is what I suggest you buy BEFORE you do anything else.

#1.. But the book - "Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms" by Paul Stamets. --- READ IT!!!

#2.. After you have read the book - buy RR's DVD - "Let's Grow Mushrooms" - Watch it at least 3 times.

http://www.mushroomvideos.com/

Then and ONLY THEN should you consider doing and buying the items you have listed above.

Good Luck.

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OfflineMephistophelian
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Re: Shitake Start Up! (help apreciated!) [Re: joehinkle]
    #10344122 - 05/15/09 03:03 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

:yesnod: yes...definitely. I read (sometimes angerily) for almost 6 months before making my first purchase.

Nab yourself the book, do lots of reading, and watch the DVD's (possibly the BEST option for anyone wanting to learn). I wish I had seen them before I read for so long...and you'll never stop reading and learning after that. But at least you'll know what not to spend money on.

To answer 1 question I caught, you don't need an impulse sealer.


--------------------
Master Slants Made Simple

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OfflineGourmetShiitake
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Re: Shitake Start Up! (help apreciated!) [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #10344390 - 05/15/09 03:59 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Omg these things don't cost THAT much.There is plenty of information on this forum. I have a experience in microbiology and come from an agricultural backround. Sorry but this is not rocket science. Ofcourse trial and error as always..I will definatley buy RR-s DVD..

What am i missing that is so important ? Buy all the stuff.

Inoculate seeds with spores. Wait for seeds to fully colonize. Inoculate Woodchip, sawdust, bran gypsym mix with seedspawn. Sterilize and watch temps in between. Lol there is nothing to read 6 months about. In the university we had to read 300leaf books in a week and take an exam. Ranging from plant anatomy to soil science. I just want to know what gadgets am i missing. And is this stuff good enough or can i get better quality/price

Edited by GourmetShiitake (05/15/09 04:00 PM)

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OfflineHorticulture
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Re: Shitake Start Up! (help apreciated!) [Re: GourmetShiitake]
    #10344965 - 05/15/09 05:49 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Oi. Mushroom growing is not an exam.  Exam is just knowledge. I could take an exam on mushrooms and do great, but I still consider myself a highly inexperienced grower.  And while shroomery is a great resource, it can't grow mushrooms for you.  You need experience, or else you are going to fail massively.  There is so much stuff that can go wrong with growing mushrooms; contamination, air exchange, poor strains (particularly dangerous if you go the spore rather than culture route), I don't know how you could get the impression that it is easy enough to start a successful start-up with no prior experience. It certainly isn't remotely similar to traditional agriculture, and requires a skill set that I certainly haven't learned in University (besides, MAYBE some sterile technique). 

Also, you come off as extremely arrogant, which is off-putting.  This is a forum for people who's hobby, and for some, way of life, is growing mushrooms.  It is insulting (or maybe just funny) to people who have put hours upon hours into cultivation for you to act as if it is an incredibly simple and trivial task.  Some of the members of this forum are positively brilliant in ways that University could never test.  So while you may shroomery as a bunch of junkies with useful information, the reality is that this may very well be the cutting edge of mushroom cultivation science. 

My advice would be to read the Paul Stamets book (it's like 500 pages, so it should take you a week and a half, then you can take the exam).  Then you should begin experimenting a little bit, and find out for yourself how easy growing mushrooms really is.  Once you have produced a fruiting shiitake block (it has to fruit shiitake, a fruiting trichoderma block does not count), then you can buy all the nifty gadgets, autoclaves, and cultures you want.


--------------------
The Plant Mage Guild

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InvisibleRoger Fudd
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Re: Shitake Start Up! (help apreciated!) [Re: Horticulture]
    #10345032 - 05/15/09 06:06 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I have to agree with Horticulture. You say that you've been reading for 4-5 years at least, but you apparently don't know how to fruit a shiitake block. I would recommend using the search function a lot. Just type in "shiitake" or "shiitake block." Then just open up every single thread that you see in multiple tabs, and read, read, read. Try to use proven cultures rather than trying to start from spores cuz shiitake is fickle when you use spores. One of the easiest ways would be to buy ~100 plug spawn dowels from Fungi Perfecti or a vendor, and use that to inoculate your grains and bulk. That way, you won't waste money on expensive master cultures, and you'll get some experience. Then you can buy a strain or try to get your own from spores. Good luck.

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OfflineMephistophelian
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Re: Shitake Start Up! (help apreciated!) [Re: GourmetShiitake]
    #10345600 - 05/15/09 07:33 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

:nonono: Sharp words for someone who's been here for half a decade but no fruited blocks. If there was nothing to read about in 6 months for myself...then why are you here after 5 years with no success stories and only criticism for people who are taking their time to write out help for you.

Pull your head out of your ass, starting experimenting and trying things out instead of spitting on those who are being patient with you. We are all here for the same reason, no point in getting into a shit fit over it.

Grab your supplies if your confident that they will suit you. Don't worry about 'these guys' who are telling you otherwise....go make mistakes, get dirty, screw up and curse, see what you can do with your knowledge. Prove to us and more importantly, yourself that this is as easy as you say it is.


--------------------
Master Slants Made Simple

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Invisiblepoboy
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Re: Shitake Start Up! (help apreciated!) [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #10346648 - 05/15/09 11:14 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Try oyster mushrooms first.That book will get you going


--------------------
Burn the land and boil the sea but you can't take the sky from me.

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OfflineGourmetShiitake
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Re: Shitake Start Up! (help apreciated!) [Re: poboy]
    #10347564 - 05/16/09 05:41 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

''Grab your supplies if your confident that they will suit you. Don't worry about 'these guys' who are telling you otherwise....go make mistakes, get dirty, screw up and curse, see what you can do with your knowledge. Prove to us and more importantly, yourself that this is as easy as you say it is. ''

Exactly my point..I WANT TO GET MY HANDS DIRTY. Reading only does so much..

I will keep updating this thread to show you how an arrogant noob does it :laugh: It will be entertaining if nothing else. Got RR-s video now too noticed i was missing a few things. IMHO the key is being super super sterile. RR has done most of the work for us. I've probably read all his threads and all the Shiitake threads i've found using the search option. We'll see what happens. Even though you think i come of as an arrogant prick. Sorry guys..im not gonna read for another 5 years just to buy the most basic growing supplies. And i still hope you will help me with the questions that might come up during this experiment..

Edited by GourmetShiitake (05/16/09 05:48 AM)

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OfflineGourmetShiitake
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Re: Shitake Start Up! (help apreciated!) [Re: GourmetShiitake]
    #10347573 - 05/16/09 05:50 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

That being said..Maybe you could share some of your stumbling stones..biggest mistakes ? It like to hear them so maybe i can avoid some of them..

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InvisibleLokelYokel
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Re: Shitake Start Up! (help apreciated!) [Re: GourmetShiitake]
    #10347588 - 05/16/09 06:04 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I will keep updating this thread to show you how an arrogant noob does it




Cool!  I love to watch a good train wreck!  Your display of the knowledge you have supposedly gleaned from reading posts on this site for 4-5years suggests that this will be a wreck of epic proportion.  I would suggest you buy every piece of equipment ever made for mycology.  By doing this at least you might stimulate some economic growth.  Then after your epic failure and 45 more abrasive posts you can access the marketplace to sell off all of your poorly designed equipment that won't grow mushrooms.  Good luck with your shiitake spore slant arrogant noob!:confused:


--------------------
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OfflineGourmetShiitake
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Re: Shitake Start Up! (help apreciated!) [Re: LokelYokel]
    #10347608 - 05/16/09 06:25 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

First of all Thank you! If i don't fail i expect to see your left nut in my mailbox..

EDIT: Btw if you think i can do it without any supplies at all please do show me this tek..

Edited by GourmetShiitake (05/16/09 06:28 AM)

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OfflineABC
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Re: Shitake Start Up! (help apreciated!) [Re: GourmetShiitake]
    #10347636 - 05/16/09 06:46 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

All you need is:

http://sporeworks.com/store/catalog/Lentinula-edodes-Lentinus-edodes--Shiitake-Mushroom-p-16141.html

the pressure cooker that you found
some spare spaghetti sauce jars
saw dust + wood chips
BRF or bran

Recommended:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0011ZJ53G?tag=rrvi-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=B0011ZJ53G&adid=07Y3MM8TGT70JEDKTCPF&

there isn't really a need for agar if you order a culture syringe from sporeworks

and my biggest mistake was not realizing that sterilization does not kill every single organism and that you only have a window of opportunity for inoculation.

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