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Offlinezouden
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Re: Transporter hypothetical [Re: Zanthius]
    #9820418 - 02/18/09 01:54 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Well, time should only completely stop if you go at the speed of light (which is impossible) or if you're in the singularity of a black hole (which is also impossible). The event horizon just defines the area that light cannot escape from; it doesn't mean that there is infinite gravity inside it. But yes, as you approach lightspeed or cross an event horizon, time would almost stop completely :smile:

Now we're really off topic :grin:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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InvisibleIndigenous
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Re: Transporter hypothetical [Re: zouden]
    #9820439 - 02/18/09 01:58 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
event horizon




That was a great movie.


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Transporter hypothetical [Re: Indigenous]
    #9820459 - 02/18/09 02:00 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

:awesome:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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InvisibleZanthius
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Re: Transporter hypothetical [Re: zouden]
    #9820539 - 02/18/09 02:09 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Well, time should only completely stop if you go at the speed of light (which is impossible) or if you're in the singularity of a black hole (which is also impossible). The event horizon just defines the area that light cannot escape from; it doesn't mean that there is infinite gravity inside it. But yes, as you approach lightspeed or cross an event horizon, time would almost stop completely :smile:

Now we're really off topic :grin:




Even if it is impossible to reach light speed, I can still visualize what the universe must look like from light speed, and therein lies the secret of why light is behaving so strangely.

You can just as well say that the big bang happened 1 second ago, as saying that it happened 13.7 billion years ago, because time is relative to the observer.


Edited by Zanthius (02/18/09 02:20 PM)


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Transporter hypothetical [Re: Zanthius]
    #9820644 - 02/18/09 02:20 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Huh? Light behaves strangely because you can imagine it behaving strangely?


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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InvisibleZanthius
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Re: Transporter hypothetical [Re: zouden]
    #9820696 - 02/18/09 02:28 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Huh? Light behaves strangely because you can imagine it behaving strangely?




No. Because of bell test experiments, which disproves local realism.


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Transporter hypothetical [Re: Zanthius]
    #9820718 - 02/18/09 02:31 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Oh, right. But that's quantum physics, not relativity. The Bell test has nothing to do with lightspeed or time dilation. It's much more confusing :smile:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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InvisibleZanthius
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Re: Transporter hypothetical [Re: zouden]
    #9820795 - 02/18/09 02:43 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Oh, right. But that's quantum physics, not relativity. The Bell test has nothing to do with lightspeed or time dilation. It's much more confusing :smile:




If you say so, but is there local realism at light speed, when time has stopped completely?

I don't think so, because all the time from the big bang until now, corresponds to the same planck unit of time at light speed.

Which means that the light hasn't really finished the big bang yet, and is located at any external time simultaneously.

It is simultaneously at the big bang, here, and infinitely far into the future.


Edited by Zanthius (02/18/09 02:57 PM)


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Transporter hypothetical [Re: Zanthius]
    #9824180 - 02/19/09 12:19 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

:psychsplit:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Transporter hypothetical [Re: zouden]
    #9826856 - 02/19/09 01:32 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I just can't understand if your on a train with a lightsource, with its light traveling a constant speed with you on the train, then the light would arrive at the same point if observed with this constant same speed watched from besides the train, This doesn't compute in reality.
and to say the time on the train runs slower than outside is just Einsteins trick to keep the speed of light a constant as speed is defined by way/time.
I think, all this is a 'methodological' physical trap beholding us from discovering truth... time is a constant, and the moment is everywhere at the same time :smile: In fact I think this is what holds the universe together.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
.............................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (02/19/09 01:44 PM)


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Transporter hypothetical [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #9826911 - 02/19/09 01:42 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

It's not just 'Einstein's trick', it's the universes trick, because it actually happens. Time dilation is a measurable effect, and Einstein has been proved correct countless times.

Yes it'll do your head in, at first, but then once you grasp it it all becomes clear :laugh:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Transporter hypothetical [Re: zouden]
    #9826979 - 02/19/09 01:55 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Hehe, maybe it's just human methodological foolishness to fail to see it clear... It's still illogical, as it's only relative to humans standpoint of view to self-fulfill its abstruse methodology. Not in reality. as if one would go faster/slower than the surrounding time, one would loose all physical connections to one's surroundings immediately. We go constantly at a high speed around our sun, does this mean our time goes slower than the rest of the universe ? How fast does the milky way move ? Compared to what ? The center of the universe ? I think that are just huge false theories :smile:
sorry if this doesn't help the thread :smile:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
.............................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Transporter hypothetical [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #9827119 - 02/19/09 02:17 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

>We go constantly at a high speed around our sun, does this mean our time goes slower than the rest of the universe?

It certainly does!

>How fast does the milky way move ? Compared to what ? The center of the universe ?

Wow, this article is better than I thought:
Quote:

In the general sense, the absolute velocity of any object through space is not a meaningful question according to Einstein's special theory of relativity, which declares that there is no "preferred" inertial frame of reference in space with which to compare the Galaxy's motion. (Motion must always be specified with respect to another object.)

Astronomers believe the Milky Way is moving at approximately 630 km per second relative to the local co-moving frame of reference that moves with the Hubble flow.[44] If the Galaxy is moving at 600 km/s, Earth travels 51.84 million km per day, or more than 18.9 billion km per year, about 4.5 times its closest distance from Pluto. The Milky Way is thought to be moving in the direction of the Great Attractor. The Local Group (a cluster of gravitationally bound galaxies containing, among others, the Milky Way and the Andromeda galaxy) is part of a supercluster called the Local Supercluster, centered near the Virgo Cluster: although they are moving away from each other at 967 km/s as part of the Hubble flow, the velocity is less than would be expected given the 16.8 million pc distance due to the gravitational attraction between the Local Group and the Virgo Cluster.[45]

Another reference frame is provided by the cosmic microwave background (CMB). The Milky Way is moving at around 552 km/s[3] with respect to the photons of the CMB, toward 10.5 right ascension, -24° declination (J2000 epoch, near the center of Hydra). This motion is observed by satellites such as the Cosmic Background Explorer (COBE) and the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) as a dipole contribution to the CMB, as photons in equilibrium in the CMB frame get blue-shifted in the direction of the motion and red-shifted in the opposite direction.



Turns out we know a lot more about our galaxy's movement than I thought :shrug:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Transporter hypothetical [Re: zouden]
    #9827391 - 02/19/09 03:08 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

hehe and after bending time, Einstein also bended space, just to make his damned SOL a constant. For me, that stinks big enough :lol:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
.............................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleZanthius
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Re: Transporter hypothetical [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #9827586 - 02/19/09 03:36 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
hehe and after bending time, Einstein also bended space, just to make his damned SOL a constant. For me, that stinks big enough :lol:




The GPS system seems to be working quite well, and it wouldn't be working so well, unless it had been adjusted to Einstein's theory of relativity.


Edited by Zanthius (02/19/09 04:31 PM)


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Transporter hypothetical [Re: Zanthius]
    #9834261 - 02/20/09 02:33 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

The train experiment is just illogical and will not work. I assume that's why Einstein's inconsistent and incoherent relativity theory only works near the speed of light (again, relative to what ?).


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
.............................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Transporter hypothetical [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #9834800 - 02/20/09 04:28 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

The train experiment works just fine. In fact, if you follow it all the way through, you come to the formula E=mc2.

Special relativity really is a brilliant piece of science, and it's not that hard to understand (not compared to General Relativity at least!)


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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