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Offlineluca1899
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Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe
    #9771628 - 02/10/09 11:36 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Here is what is available-
WBS
Coir
Coffee Grounds
Gypsum
I am thinking:
40% WBS
45% Coir
10% Coffee
5% Gypsum

Or if given time Verm could be gotten:
35% WBS
35% Coir
15% Verm
10% Coffee
5% Gypsum

Verm will only be used if you guys think it is so beneficial that the process should be put off a few days to get it, and the process is very eager to start..

Any adjustments to those percentages for either scenario, more or less coir of wbs?
Does it sound like the PH level will be good to keep out contams?

This would be knocked up by LC.

Also, for sterilzation and pasteurization:
Sterilize just the WBS, and pastuerize the rest? Mixing them afterwards would make the whole spawnbag thing not so useful though, since its not good to go out of the pc, and could contam while im mixing them together?

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Offlinehoudinihar
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: luca1899]
    #9771683 - 02/10/09 11:55 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Here is what is available-
WBS
Coir
Coffee Grounds
Gypsum
I am thinking:
40% WBS
45% Coir
10% Coffee
5% Gypsum

Or if given time Verm could be gotten:
35% WBS
35% Coir
15% Verm
10% Coffee
5% Gypsum





all depends on what you're growing. diferrent species have different growing requirements.
houdinihar

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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: houdinihar]
    #9771805 - 02/10/09 12:26 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)



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Edited by 13shrooms (02/11/09 11:54 AM)

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Offlineluca1899
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: 13shrooms]
    #9773323 - 02/10/09 05:21 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

13shrooms said:
substrate
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/favlinker.php?Cat=&Entry=89994&F_Board=30&Thread=9289857&partnumber=1&postmarker=#Post9771011
1 brick coir
1 pint verm
1 pint spent coffee grounds
1/2 pint gypsum
1 gal water
pasteurize at 140*-160*F for 1 hour 

spawn
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/favlinker.php?Cat=&Entry=89834&F_Board=255&Thread=9508876&partnumber=&postmarker=


good luck!




wow man awesome teks. but i wanted to colonize the coir with the wbs in the spawnbags, then case in a monotub.
if i used your tek and spawned the wbs to the coir mixture, what do you recommend for additives to the wbs in the spawn bags?
it looks like you are using 6 quarts of wbs per tub, is that right?

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Offlinekoopa_troopa
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: luca1899]
    #9774111 - 02/10/09 07:51 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

For a simpler approach, just take 13shrooms recipe and add 10% grain by total volume then sterelize for around 3 hrs and simply inject around 50cc of LC.. Only way to fuck it up would be to use a contamed LC or sloppy injection technique! Good luck bro


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Offlinekoopa_troopa
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9774141 - 02/10/09 07:57 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Forgot to mention that after colonization is complete you can either block the sides of the spawn bag and fruit invitro or just take it out of the bag, place it in a similar sized container and add a casing if you wish.. Then Bam! Shrooms


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Offlineluca1899
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9774159 - 02/10/09 08:00 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koopa_troopa said:
Forgot to mention that after colonization is complete you can either block the sides of the spawn bag and fruit invitro or just take it out of the bag, place it in a similar sized container and add a casing if you wish.. Then Bam! Shrooms



I cant find that recipe, can you give me a link?

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OfflineMagic_Hobo
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: luca1899]
    #9774249 - 02/10/09 08:20 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I'd throw more than 10% grain in there. Maybe some pf mix too just for fun.

Grain has a lot more nutes than bulk, more grain means more mushrooms, up to a certain point. The initial spawn makes up a large portion of the overall nutritional content.

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Offlinekoopa_troopa
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: luca1899]
    #9774320 - 02/10/09 08:33 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

You don't need a link I just told you the entire recipe. Its a derivitive of the Wronguy Bag, minus the manure. The recipe can be altered for the ingridients you have access to. The way I stated will work great but if u live in a state whose walmart sells black kow brand manure  or have access to h.poo, I strongly recommend u suppliment the recipe at equal amounts of kow/poo to coir. I'm on my cell phone so u will have to look up the wronguy bag tek if u want. One of the best teks on this board in my oppinion.


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Offlinekoopa_troopa
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9774386 - 02/10/09 08:48 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I wouldn't suggest adding much more grain than that in a substrate bag. First, since it is preferable that the grain is not soaked and simmered before its addition to the bag, adding much more grain would wick proper moisture content from the rest of the bag.

Second, Coir and Poo is much more desirable in any bulk substrate mix. The seed isn't even necessary, only desirable. Sry for spelling, on my cell..


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Edited by koopa_troopa (02/10/09 08:54 PM)

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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9775566 - 02/10/09 10:24 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

wow man awesome teks. but i wanted to colonize the coir with the wbs in the spawnbags, then case in a monotub.
if i used your tek and spawned the wbs to the coir mixture, what do you recommend for additives to the wbs in the spawn bags?
it looks like you are using 6 quarts of wbs per tub, is that right?





lets give credit where credit is due.  Those are teks I use NOT my teks. 
Large_dose and Spongeform get credit for those.:respect:  Im just sharing the info.
I wish I could make a sweet ass tek like those.

yes that should be fine how you want to.

gypsum is great for the growth of the fruitbody(healthier mushies). I use 1/2 pint to 1 pint depending on moisture content of my sub.  some coir bricks arent the same size so if I added too much water I use more.

yup 6 quarts to 1 tub.


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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9775867 - 02/10/09 10:28 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koopa_troopa said:
For a simpler approach, just take 13shrooms recipe and add 10% grain by total volume then sterelize for around 3 hrs and simply inject around 50cc of LC.. Only way to fuck it up would be to use a contamed LC or sloppy injection technique! Good luck bro





50cc of LC!:shroomjar:  you trying to colonize a football field?  lol :mushroomgrow::syringe:


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Offlineluca1899
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9777695 - 02/11/09 11:10 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koopa_troopa said:
You don't need a link I just told you the entire recipe. Its a derivitive of the Wronguy Bag, minus the manure. The recipe can be altered for the ingridients you have access to. The way I stated will work great but if u live in a state whose walmart sells black kow brand manure  or have access to h.poo, I strongly recommend u suppliment the recipe at equal amounts of kow/poo to coir. I'm on my cell phone so u will have to look up the wronguy bag tek if u want. One of the best teks on this board in my oppinion.



oh sorry! i was a little toked.
thank you guys this is all wicked helpfull.

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Offlineluca1899
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: luca1899]
    #9777803 - 02/11/09 11:46 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

wait a tick, you are saying pints of verm and coffee per brick of coir, bu the tek says quarts. youre typo and its qurts right?

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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: luca1899]
    #9777843 - 02/11/09 11:58 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

luca1899 said:
wait a tick, you are saying pints of verm and coffee per brick of coir, bu the tek says quarts. youre typo and its qurts right?




good eye!:congrats: i was half asleep, my bad.  I corrected my wording.

thanx.:grin: I dont need anyone mad at me for giving bad info.


:getstoned:


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Offlinekoopa_troopa
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: 13shrooms]
    #9778513 - 02/11/09 02:18 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

lol such is the way with substrate bags man. If it was a simple spawn bag composed primarily of grain it would be a different story, but when working with even the medium sized substrate bags you need alot more LC. That is, if you want it to finish colonizing and not take forever. If your interested in learning more about them, look up posts and teks from bluehelix, wronguy, monstermitch and omnicracker to name a few.

Personally, I make large substrate bags weighing in at about 5-6 LBs, so I have to use upwards of 100cc per injection. The syringes are as big as my forearm. Right now im making several gallon LCs to use in conjunction with a socorex injection gun for the injection of mass quantities of these bags. Its almost identical to the socorex model Agar used to use, its in the mail as we speak. Its mycelium's worst nightmare!



--------------------

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Offlineluca1899
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9779400 - 02/11/09 04:39 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

so heres what will really happen, since verm is not cant be gotten for a few days, and gypsum is also limited.
4 bags:
2 will be all wbs to be spawned to 13shrooms substrate recipe later
2 bags of:
4qt coir
4qt wbs
1qt coffee grinds
whatever i have left of gypsum, (less than half a pint, but there is some soaked into the wbs as well)
maybe more wbs depending on what these reynolds turkey bags securely hold and whats left over after the 4 bags and maybe 4 qt jars for backup spawn.
if i can get like 1/5th pint gypsum for each of those coir bags, how do you think the ph will work out?

is there any benefit to putting some coffee grinds into the all wbs bags?

when you say your bags are 5-6lbs, how many quarts is that? just trying t get an idea of scale.

Edited by luca1899 (02/11/09 04:41 PM)

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Offlineluca1899
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: luca1899]
    #9779801 - 02/11/09 05:34 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

shit,  also my coir, and coffee, i forgot about getting it wet because it´s loose fiber eco earth and i dindt have to expand it. i cant find any reference to this on the board so ill ask here as well, how should i soak it?
how long does it need to saturate? can i just mix it with some water and cofee grinds and gypsum?
or do i need to do an over night thing?

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Offlinekoopa_troopa
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: luca1899]
    #9779917 - 02/11/09 05:52 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

your ph will be ok.. also the birdseed and the gypsum should be thrown in there DRY, which was stated earlier in this thread. You should def. use the gypsum and should also include 6 tbl spoons of canola oil (veg oil will work if you dont have canola).

Did you ever look up the Wronguy Bags? Im starting to wonder if you know the difference between spawn and substrate bags. Heres a link where Wronguy explains it, about halfway down the page:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5718812#Post5718812

and also heres a great grow by omnicracker using Wronguy Bags with more info:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6280307#Post6280307

It has since been updated to include gypsum and a bunch of other ingredients but dont feel like looking for it.
Its generally not a good idea to spawn with SUBSTRATE BAGS. Make some SPAWN BAGS if thats what you wish to do, but otherwise its not a good idea with SUBSTRATE BAGS.

I recommend the following recipe based off of Wronguys recipe to fit your needs, it will fill 4 Large bags or 6 medium sized bags:

Ingredients:
30 Cups of Coir (post hydrated/crumbled and preferably  dry)

14 cups coffee grounds (USED)

20 Cups Vermiculite (I strongly recommended you incude atleast half this amount, walmart, lowes, Home Depot..etc almost spring, should be there.. it makes the mix fluffier allowing for faster colonization AND will help with proper moisture content.. If not use jiffy mix, a mush grower should ALWAYS have verm on hand)

16 ½ Cups Wild Bird Seed

2 cups of Gypsum. If you dont have enough just go to a lowes or home depot and tell them you need a piece of drywall to match up to your wall, and they will let you break a piece off for free, make sure somewhere on it it mentions gypsum, remove paper from both sides, grind it up and use it. Helps ALOT

6 Tablespoons Canola Oil

21 Cups Water

Directions:
1. Mix all DRY ingredients together thoroughly.
2. Add water gradually and mix by hand.
3. Add Canola Oil.
4. Load bags evenly. Seal if your bags can be presealed!
5. Pressure cook for 3 hours @ 15 PSI.
6. Allow to cool for one hour and remove from cooker.
7. Impulse seal bags if you dont have the preasealable kind
8. Hang to cool and inflate
9. Inject with ATLEAST 50cc of LC, if large bags are used atleast 75cc

Quoted from Wronguy:
"I typically have full colonization between 8-10 days. Each batch yields between 8-10 ounces dry, per flush. At least in my experience."

If you cannot get your hands on verm or jiffy i strongly advise you to just make some simple spawn bags, each bag containing 3 or 4 qts and just spawn and gypsum, then spawn to a substrate comprising of what you should have used in your substrate bags. Doing them half-assed, missing basic cultivation ingredients will most likely result in stalled bags, just tryin to help.. Ive made hundreds of these.


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Offlineluca1899
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9780204 - 02/11/09 06:45 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

i think i know the difference between spawn and substrate bags, the 2 wbs bags were to be spawn bags, and the second 2 bags, with the coir,were to be substrate bags to be cased when colonized.
the verm and extra gypsum are not available now because i cannot go shopping until the weekend, i am in school 5 days a week and have a killer 2 hour commute on public transportation everyday, each way, im lucky to be awake to pc at night...
i will not half ass it as you point out, i will just make all 4 bags as spawn bags, and use that great substrate recipe.
next round i will use this substrate bag recipe.
thank you man.
would my spawn bags benefit from some spent coffee? since i have it on hand, canola oil i could add too, and i´ll use what gypsum i have, and get more for the substrate later

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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: luca1899]
    #9780868 - 02/11/09 08:37 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I know nothing about spawn bags or sub bags so I cant help w/that and Im not doubting what koopa is telling you but oil? new to me.  Ive never read anything on bags of any type.

the gypsum does act as a ph buffer and a anti-clumping agent but its like vitamins for the fruitbodies.  its calcium sulphate, which to my understanding is calcium and sulfur, all good for formation/growth.

coffee is a grain so dont just add it without pasteurizing first. unless your pasteurizing the whole bag b4 you inoculate it.

Quote:

shit,  also my coir, and coffee, i forgot about getting it wet because it´s loose fiber eco earth and i dindt have to expand it. i cant find any reference to this on the board so ill ask here as well, how should i soak it?
how long does it need to saturate? can i just mix it with some water and cofee grinds and gypsum?
or do i need to do an over night thing?




its not just soaking it you HAVE TO PASTEURIZE IT at 140-160*F for an hour.  then let it cool b4 you use it.


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Offlinekoopa_troopa
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: 13shrooms]
    #9784941 - 02/12/09 01:19 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

canola oil is used in almost every substrate bag tek there is.. if you havent done it before then why would you pick it apart.. check out the links I posted and learn something instead of doubting a method you haven't even read about.

As for the spawn bags, I make mine with 3-4 qts of soaked and simmered bird seed with a tablespoon of gypsum mixed in. Wouldn't bother throwing any other ingredients in there, just save it for the substrate.

Check out the sponsors and order up some verm and h.poo.. that way its delivered right to your door.
Here's a link to my last spawn bag grow if your interested in the methods ive spoke of and the results I achieved with my substrate recipe. And if you havent ordered any penis envy yet do it! It is a fantastic fruiter in both monotubs and substrate bags.. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/9137051/an/0/page/0


--------------------

Koopa Out
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Offlinekoopa_troopa
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9784949 - 02/12/09 01:22 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

ps gotta sterilize grains bc of endospores.. pasteurizing is for substrates..


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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9785191 - 02/12/09 02:23 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

grain is a substrate dumb ass, pardon the language!


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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: arp180]
    #9786213 - 02/12/09 05:20 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

arp.. seriously dude your gonna call me out even though in context it is completely correct.. you know exactly what the fuck i meant and if you didnt you only read my last post..

he is using grain as spawn, you must sterilize it..

he is using a coir substrate mix..which must be pasteurized.. unless used in a substrate bag. 

DUMB ASS. Its called CONTEXT.. here's the definition of CONTEXT incase you dont have a dictionary or flash cards around the house: the relevant constraints of the communicative situation that influence language use, language variation and discourse.

SOCIAL SKILLS!! use them :grin:

How about you read or atleast contribute to a thread before acting like a child. I use grain in almost all of my substrate bags. Grain CAN be used solely as a substrate.. a very shitty one at that (for cubes atleast).  Corn Cob can be a decent sub, but compared to most sucks.  Hell newspaper, can be used as a substrate. RRs used a Bible for substrate for God sakes but by no means is grain an efficient or suitable substrate in regards to the methods being described in this thread. He is using it as spawn. I was trying to make things clearer for the poster of this thread.

I was referring to the intended use of grain as a spawn bag.

Amateurish, arrogant and a waste of a post.. apologies for the douche baggish use of a definitions and all caps but damn.. dont try callin me out for giving correct info in the CONTEXT of the post when Im helping the poster, giving advice about something im damn good at.


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Edited by koopa_troopa (02/12/09 05:43 PM)

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Offlinekoopa_troopa
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9786250 - 02/12/09 05:26 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

and to 13 shroom my bad man.. I didnt see the quote you used of his, referring to the coir substrate and you telling him to pasteurize. I was on my cell when i saw that and responded, hard as hell to scroll and keep track of the posts.. got a 3 hr Chem. night class, boring as hell and half asleep..  thought it was referring to grain some reason lol


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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9787401 - 02/12/09 08:44 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koopa_troopa said:
and to 13 shroom my bad man.. I didnt see the quote you used of his, referring to the coir substrate and you telling him to pasteurize. I was on my cell when i saw that and responded, hard as hell to scroll and keep track of the posts.. got a 3 hr Chem. night class, boring as hell and half asleep..  thought it was referring to grain some reason lol




whoa....someone need to vent some aggression.lol  :minigun:

Im used to it.:getstoned:


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Offlinekoopa_troopa
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: 13shrooms]
    #9787545 - 02/12/09 09:07 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

lol thats what adderall fueled, marathon study sessions will do to ya..


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Invisiblearp180
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: 13shrooms]
    #9787591 - 02/12/09 09:14 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Funny shit, for your spawn bags look to those who have already perfected the process(wronguy, blue helix, monster mitch), maybe even put your own twist on things.


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Offlineluca1899
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: arp180]
    #9795618 - 02/14/09 01:10 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

haha calm down guys! i´m glad ya´ll sort stuff and and apologised while i was away.
thanks for all the help, i am going to make that substrate to spawn my bags too, and i look forward to trying the actual substrate bag recipe soon. this will be my first grow if it works out, so i´ll log it too and give you props as i go :wink:
im going to do some research on this but i thought id ask you nice peeps while im at it:
i had to stop from tiredness and my insane schedule while pcíng the other night, after 2 4qt bags and 2 jars, and had the same amount left. i put it in a pretty tight plastic container and left it in a cold dark closet in hope it would not germinate while i was at school for two days (i stay over a couple ngihts a week to pull some library late nights, oh mad hardcore college...). i got back and after two days i was a little luck, it only just began to germinate, with just a few stems poking out a wee bit. i think i heard its only detrimental and not fatal to use germinating wbs, but i dont know why or why not. gonna go look now. any advice? i could toss it, i have more. but theyre prepared jars and bags, so if its only detrimental and just a litt,e why not?
whatcha think?

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Offlinekoopa_troopa
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Re: Please help with a SpawnBag Substrate Recipe [Re: luca1899]
    #9805290 - 02/15/09 10:43 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

if its just a few seeds that germinated you might be ok otherwise throw it out.. esp if it smells sour already or has a slight slime coating


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