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 infinitechaos7
Mycophagist
 
Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 168
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 psilocybin "threshold" dosage 5+ grams 
#9718894 - 02/01/09 06:12 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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When I was at the Students for Sensible Drug Policy International Conference in College Park, MD this past November, I had a chance to listen to a presentation by one of the researchers from Johns Hopkins University who has facilitated a handful of approved studies on psilocybin as well as ask him a couple questions. He presented the dosages which were administered to the subjects in mg so I asked him what he thought would be the typical dosage in grams of dried mushrooms if that had been the means of administration. He said that if their test subjects had received dried mushrooms the typical dosage in the study would have been roughly 5 grams. He went on to add that this dosage was intentional because they found that such a dosage is typically the "threshold" level in most people, a level that once met allows the entirety of the psilocybin experience to unfold.
I found this very interesting because after my first 15-20 sessions of experimentation I finally came to the conclusion about two years ago that there was no point in fucking around with piddly dosages of less than 5 grams. I found 5 grams to be my threshold level which, apparently, is a pretty common threshold level. Eating anything less leaves me wishing Id eaten more and eating 5+ continues to open new doorways of bliss and euphoria each and every time. Plus, overdose on psilocybin is virtually impossible so why not push the envelope?
Ive now established the general opinion that if you are going to use psilocybin, you may as well hit your threshold point and experience all that the magic of psilocybin has to offer. To do otherwise seems like a waste of time and disrespectful to the power withheld by our friends, the magical psilocybes. This, of course, is assuming that the user at hand considers himself/herself at least an amateur psychonaut or that the user at hand has an experienced sitter nearby as was the model in the Johns Hopkins studies.
What do you other psychonauts think?
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 Justice_Fish
Fustice_Jish
Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 2,652
Loc: CebèuQ
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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well, 5 grams for someone who never experienced shrooms might be too intense
working your way up to 5 grams ain't that bad an idea
someone who can't handle 3grams won't handle 5 grams for sure, so why the rush?
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infinitechaos7
Mycophagist
Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 168
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Re: psilocybin dosage 5+ grams [Re: Justice_Fish]
#9718938 - 02/01/09 06:24 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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The subjects in the study had never used psilocybin before and they found what would be equivalent to 5 grams to be quite enlightening. Keep in mind that the sessions in these studies took place in an extremely comfortable setting and were guided by an experienced staff who acted as "trip sitters."
I think that if one is going to experience psilocybin one may as well do five grams. To do less would be to give the user a false first impression of what psilocybin really can be. It's like saying "let's go TO cloud 9, but not get off and stay awhile when we get there."
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SalviNate
Misnomer
Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 1,929
Loc: Dablands 
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: psilocybin dosage 5+ grams [Re: Justice_Fish]
#9718942 - 02/01/09 06:25 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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I find that 3.5 is: a haha whoa I'm trippin, and 5 grams is: I finally know the secrets of the universe let the knowledge flow in!
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pfxtc
RUEXP?
Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 21,166
Loc: 
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: psilocybin dosage 5+ grams [Re: SalviNate]
#9718946 - 02/01/09 06:27 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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An 1/8 seems to skyrocket me as far as I could possibly go, but I'm pretty succeptible to all drugs.
I think 3.0 is my threshold. 3 Grams and under and I'm tripping decently, over 3 grams and I'm full blown out of it.
I'm gonna do 7 grams some time soon, so we'll see how that goes 
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koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.
Life-long trip report
Edited by pfxtc (02/01/09 06:28 PM)
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infinitechaos7
Mycophagist
Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 168
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Re: psilocybin dosage 5+ grams [Re: pfxtc]
#9718977 - 02/01/09 06:36 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
SalviNate said:
I find that 3.5 is: a haha whoa I'm trippin, and 5 grams is: I finally know the secrets of the universe let the knowledge flow in!
Precisely!
Quote:
pfxtc said:
An 1/8 seems to skyrocket me as far as I could possibly go, but I'm pretty succeptible to all drugs.
I think 3.0 is my threshold. 3 Grams and under and I'm tripping decently, over 3 grams and I'm full blown out of it.
I'm gonna do 7 grams some time soon, so we'll see how that goes
That's what I like to hear. That is my largest dosage to this date and I continue to hold the belief that there is more that psilocybin has to offer. I would be willing to bet that about 10 grams might be the maximum that our stomachs are capable of tolerating (i.e., anything more would likely guarantee vomiting regardless of whether you'd fasted or smoked any grass).
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04281969
Hobbyist
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 1,406
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Doc's got his info fucked up.
Definitions of threshold dose on the Web:
The minimum dose that will produce a detectable degree of any given effect.
www.ndt-ed.org/GeneralResources/Glossary/letter/t.htm
Minimum application of a given substance required to produce a measurable effect.
64.78.1.205/
The minimum radiation dose at which a specified deterministic effect can occur. Threshold doses differ among individuals as a result of biologic ...
www.e-radiography.net/radtech/d/dose_definitions.htm
Five grams fresh would be around a half of a gram dry, which would be a "threshold dose" by definition.
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infinitechaos7
Mycophagist
Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 168
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Re: psilocybin dosage 5+ grams [Re: 04281969]
#9719336 - 02/01/09 07:42 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
04281969 said:
Doc's got his info fucked up.
Definitions of threshold dose on the Web:
The minimum dose that will produce a detectable degree of any given effect.
www.ndt-ed.org/GeneralResources/Glossary/letter/t.htm
Minimum application of a given substance required to produce a measurable effect.
64.78.1.205/
The minimum radiation dose at which a specified deterministic effect can occur. Threshold doses differ among individuals as a result of biologic ...
www.e-radiography.net/radtech/d/dose_definitions.htm
Five grams fresh would be around a half of a gram dry, which would be a "threshold dose" by definition.
Doc does not have his info fucked up. He nor I meant "threshold" to mean any of those definitions. That is what I meant to suggest by putting it in quotations. What he meant was that 5 grams is the typical dosage required to produce a "full" or "complete" psilocybin experience of significant spiritual or mystical magnitude.
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lavod
Seal Whisperer
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5,456
Loc: Over the rainbow
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Re: psilocybin dosage 5+ grams *DELETED* [Re: infinitechaos7]
#9719413 - 02/01/09 07:51 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by lavodReason for deletion: Must stay positive for later journey. Wooosa. Wooosa.
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pfxtc
RUEXP?
Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 21,166
Loc:
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: psilocybin dosage 5+ grams [Re: lavod]
#9719440 - 02/01/09 07:54 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
lavod said:
Quote:
infinitechaos7 said:
Doc does not have his info fucked up. He nor I meant "threshold" to mean any of those definitions. That is what I meant to suggest by putting it in quotations. What he meant was that 5 grams is the typical dosage required to produce a "full" or "complete" psilocybin experience of significant spiritual or mystical magnitude.
Bollocks.
Agreed.
Depends on who you are, what type of shroom you're getting, and a bunch of other crap.
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koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.
Life-long trip report
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Angel_Above
Nobody
Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 5,348
Last seen: 8 months, 7 days
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Re: psilocybin dosage 5+ grams [Re: pfxtc]
#9719461 - 02/01/09 07:57 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Threshold to me is like 1.5 grams.
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Indigenous
Stranger
Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 814
Loc: Celestial Realm
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Re: psilocybin "threshold" dosage 5+ grams [Re: infinitechaos7]
#9719824 - 02/01/09 09:00 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't believe they give that big a dose to first time users. Erowid lists 5+ grams as a heavy dose. Erowid lists 400+ ug LSD as a heavy dose.
5+ grams would be the same as 5+ hits of acid, a very large dose for a first time user.
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yageman
already dead
Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 4,965
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: psilocybin "threshold" dosage 5+ grams [Re: Indigenous]
#9720116 - 02/01/09 10:28 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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What a stupid post infinitechaos7.............
I mean, thats one of the dumbest things I have ever read.
Im serious.
Ponder on that.....lol
Threshold?
God damn it man.
I dont even need to explain myself.
I cant. Your post was just way too stupid for me to compete with.
I dont have that great of reach.
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[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material. No 'thing' fixes any situation. If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.
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yageman
already dead
Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 4,965
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: psilocybin "threshold" dosage 5+ grams [Re: Indigenous]
#9720195 - 02/01/09 10:42 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Indigenous said:
I don't believe they give that big a dose to first time users. Erowid lists 5+ grams as a heavy dose. Erowid lists 400+ ug LSD as a heavy dose.
5+ grams would be the same as 5+ hits of acid, a very large dose for a first time user.
Why would they give a first timer such a dose unless you were an ignorant sciency asshole who loves fucking around with things you dont understand.
Like those bastards that gave addicts lsd for months and then rewarded them with their drug of choice after most trips, what was it, the 60's.
They knew better. They were just trying to figure out lsd and they were fucking with people that they didnt care about.
They gave them nutty doses of lsd almost every day probably depending on their sleep schedule.
They probably called 500 mics threshold, CONSIDERING THEIR MOTIVES.
Treated people like rats.
5 grams is a heavy dose. Dont know which sciency travesty you were quoting, but that mentality is just stupid OP.
I dont think everyone wants the same thing.
That and..........
We all react differently and most educated users are very aware of all this.
Smelly post.
Stinks of shit.
total bullshit through and through.
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[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material. No 'thing' fixes any situation. If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.
Edited by yageman (02/01/09 10:45 PM)
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination
Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 6,016
Last seen: 19 days, 12 hours
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Re: psilocybin "threshold" dosage 5+ grams [Re: yageman]
#9720322 - 02/01/09 11:05 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Treated people like rats
this is a well documented extraordinary study whose results are extremely important because it may be what leads the way to many more people in mainstream society to use these substances
the results were unequivocally positive. something like 75% percent of the participants said the experience was of the top five most meaningful experiences in their life. after one year they published a paper that showed the participants still had an improved quality of life after their experience
on the whole, those 'ignorant sciency assholes' were able to give the participants a deeply meaningful experience that changed their lives in a significantly positive way - judged by the participants and the participants friends and family.
are you some kind of science nazi? why do you dehumanize scientists? if psychedelics can be helpful to humans, and science is allowed to move forward, then humans will be able use psychedelics without breaking the law.
this kind of dosage is recommended by many people
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yageman
already dead
Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 4,965
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: psilocybin "threshold" dosage 5+ grams [Re: Freedom]
#9720392 - 02/01/09 11:20 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Freedom said:
Quote:
Treated people like rats
this is a well documented extraordinary study whose results are extremely important because it may be what leads the way to many more people in mainstream society to use these substances
the results were unequivocally positive. something like 75% percent of the participants said the experience was of the top five most meaningful experiences in their life. after one year they published a paper that showed the participants still had an improved quality of life after their experience
on the whole, those 'ignorant sciency assholes' were able to give the participants a deeply meaningful experience that changed their lives in a significantly positive way - judged by the participants and the participants friends and family.
are you some kind of science nazi? why do you dehumanize scientists? if psychedelics can be helpful to humans, and science is allowed to move forward, then humans will be able use psychedelics without breaking the law.
this kind of dosage is recommended by many people
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So where did that study go?
What happened to all those abused people/addicts.
I love science. I have read about this quite a bit.
It was a fucked up study and they put addicts through tough shit for months and rewarded them for it.
Thats abuse. Im sure it was meaningful for alot of those people and im not some kind of a nazi.
It was a sick study.
Fucked at the very least.
I love science, and thats why I mentioned this study.
Also, Id like to add that I also feel that the true unfolding of psychedelic effects happens ONLY after 5 grams of cubes.......lol
Its just silly.
Some people have missed the point, kind of like how you missed my point.
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[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material. No 'thing' fixes any situation. If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.
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04281969
Hobbyist
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 1,406
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Re: psilocybin "threshold" dosage 5+ grams [Re: yageman]
#9721441 - 02/02/09 07:35 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Why not use LD50 to mean Lowest Dose to get 50% of the people really tripping?
Scientists use standard terms to identify specific phenomena. You can't just make up new meanings to these terms or else the discoveries of science would never advance.
Doc has his info fucked up.
Don't know what the term should be. Maybe "functional dose" or "operating dose" would be better?
And yes, I am a science Nazi.
Vee have our vays.
Edited by 04281969 (02/02/09 08:54 AM)
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infinitechaos7
Mycophagist
Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 168
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Re: psilocybin "threshold" dosage 5+ grams [Re: yageman]
#9723740 - 02/02/09 04:14 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
yageman said:
Quote:
Freedom said:
Quote:
Treated people like rats
this is a well documented extraordinary study whose results are extremely important because it may be what leads the way to many more people in mainstream society to use these substances
the results were unequivocally positive. something like 75% percent of the participants said the experience was of the top five most meaningful experiences in their life. after one year they published a paper that showed the participants still had an improved quality of life after their experience
on the whole, those 'ignorant sciency assholes' were able to give the participants a deeply meaningful experience that changed their lives in a significantly positive way - judged by the participants and the participants friends and family.
are you some kind of science nazi? why do you dehumanize scientists? if psychedelics can be helpful to humans, and science is allowed to move forward, then humans will be able use psychedelics without breaking the law.
this kind of dosage is recommended by many people
----
So where did that study go?
What happened to all those abused people/addicts.
I love science. I have read about this quite a bit.
It was a fucked up study and they put addicts through tough shit for months and rewarded them for it.
Thats abuse. Im sure it was meaningful for alot of those people and im not some kind of a nazi.
It was a sick study.
Fucked at the very least.
I love science, and thats why I mentioned this study.
Also, Id like to add that I also feel that the true unfolding of psychedelic effects happens ONLY after 5 grams of cubes.......lol
Its just silly.
Some people have missed the point, kind of like how you missed my point.
OK, yageman, you are talking about the MKULTRA studies and Freedom is talking about the Johns Hopkins studies. It helps if you get your statements straight. It helps you look like less of a fool if you can follow what people are talking about.
Yes, MKULTRA was fucked up. The Johns Hopkins studies, on the other hand, are not so fucked up and are precisely the kind of thing that the psychedelic medicine community needs as Freedom so graciously described.
For being a community of psychedelic enthusiasts this place absolutely sucks at being open-minded. I was not expecting to be pounced on by assholes like yageman whose posts 1) don't make any sense in terms of content or grammar 2) offer nothing to the discussion and 3) clarify for all of us that the original post was entirely misunderstood by said asshole.
As far as terminology like "threshold" and "LD50" goes...who cares? This fucking doctor was simply trying to explain to me what he and his research team found in terms of dosage effectiveness. It is entirely irrelevant if the context in which "threshold" was used doesn't match the clinical definition. "Threshold" as a general term can be extrapolated to mean many things as long as it carries a corresponding modifier that tells us under what conditions this threshold is being met or taking place. Pull the sticks out of your asses, shroomery, and just have a fucking discussion for crying out loud.
Edited by infinitechaos7 (02/02/09 04:18 PM)
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: psilocybin "threshold" dosage 5+ grams [Re: infinitechaos7]
#9723823 - 02/02/09 04:30 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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2 grams - Yeah im tripping
3 grams - Noticeably more intense
5 grams - Losing contact with reality and you become everything
8+ grams - I'm God
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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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yageman
already dead
Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 4,965
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: psilocybin "threshold" dosage 5+ grams [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9723889 - 02/02/09 04:40 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sorry I just thought it was all a bad thing.
Threshold most often means what it takes for you to feel it, not what it takes for you to: loose your shit, have a super overwhelming experience whatever that may bring, or have a spiritual experience(there is no dose for that).
Super duper fucking intense does not = threshold in my book.
I totally understand why people Mess with doses lower than five grams.
I dont understand why people make dumb threads like this.
Thats all I was saying.
Sorry if I got too wordy about it, because what I was saying is pretty simple.
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[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material. No 'thing' fixes any situation. If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.
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