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uncle_rico
my own worst enemy
Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 2,664
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Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos)
#9449768 - 12/17/08 12:14 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Greetings,
When I started I could barely tell the difference between a car and a truck. Now I can identify cars and trucks but am trying to differentiate between Fords and Chevys ....
Thanks to everyone. Need some help again.
Went out and everything looked good
Growing on dung. Notice the black spore 'print'.
This was the haul .... I thought they were all panaeoulus cyanescens ... but when I look closely, the group on the right paper at the bottom look like panaeolus subbalteatus.
Then I look at an old post where John Allen responded and told me that panaeolus antillarum and panaeolus sphinctrinus are also commonly found on dung on Maui.
I looked at photos of antillarum and the stipes look thicker than what I found. Photos of sphinctrinus look very similar to some I found.
Some of mine blued / blacked and some didn't.
Do I have cyanescens, subbalteaus and sphinctrinus?
Do all copelandias blue?
Thanks guys.
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smokdatkush
Hunter
Registered: 08/06/07
Posts: 1,102
Loc: Cope-land
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: uncle_rico]
#9449813 - 12/17/08 12:26 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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i see some pan.copes and pan. ants mixed up. both will have a similar spore print, but your actives(pan,cope's ) will bruise dark blue.
so toss out the ones that dont bruise and your good.
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cactu
culture and magic
Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 3,913
Loc: mexicoelcentrodelconocimi...
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: uncle_rico]
#9449867 - 12/17/08 12:39 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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you will notice all copelandia blue . sooner or later in drying , then the blue can go black , paneolus antillarun is almost identical to copelandia cyanescens but usually antillarun are more big , more big stems as you notice, they dont blue as copelandia never, they have some sort of metallic gray look in cap when the sun shine , and paneolus sprictinus is more like the ones in the corner wich can also be subbalteatus , in my opinion they are active and more in tropical areas but not as potend as copelandia . all look like cyan but if some dont blue even in drying they are antillarum . and the small portion of maybe subbs or sprictinus .
-------------------- cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa al lado se puede sentir que valio la pena haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo
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smokdatkush
Hunter
Registered: 08/06/07
Posts: 1,102
Loc: Cope-land
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: cactu]
#9449887 - 12/17/08 12:43 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cactu said: you will notice all copelandia blue . sooner or later in drying , then the blue can go black , paneolus antillarun is almost identical to copelandia cyanescens but usually antillarun are more big , more big stems as you notice, they dont blue as copelandia never, they have some sort of metallic gray look in cap when the sun shine , and paneolus sprictinus is more like the ones in the corner wich can also be subbalteatus , in my opinion they are active and more in tropical areas but not as potend as copelandia . all look like cyan but if some dont blue even in drying they are antillarum . and the small portion of maybe subbs or sprictinus .
Ive found many silverish color cyans it could be from oxidation though. ive notcied antillarun i find are bright white with alot thicker stems.
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weiliiiiiii
Stranger
Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 9,711
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: smokdatkush]
#9449898 - 12/17/08 12:47 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
smokdatkush said:
Quote:
cactu said: you will notice all copelandia blue . sooner or later in drying , then the blue can go black , paneolus antillarun is almost identical to copelandia cyanescens but usually antillarun are more big , more big stems as you notice, they dont blue as copelandia never, they have some sort of metallic gray look in cap when the sun shine , and paneolus sprictinus is more like the ones in the corner wich can also be subbalteatus , in my opinion they are active and more in tropical areas but not as potend as copelandia . all look like cyan but if some dont blue even in drying they are antillarum . and the small portion of maybe subbs or sprictinus .
Ive found many silverish color cyans it could be from oxidation though. ive notcied antillarun i find are bright white with alot thicker stems.
antillarum do have thicker stipes, they are a larger mushroom in general.
Also the base of the stipe of anitllarum tends to curve
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2859558484
Growery is Better
Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 8,752
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: weiliiiiiii]
#9450033 - 12/17/08 01:17 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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there are also pan subbs mixed in there
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HoneyComber
Stranger
Registered: 08/25/08
Posts: 266
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: weiliiiiiii]
#9450037 - 12/17/08 01:19 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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nice find
-------------------- "we're all mad here"
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smokdatkush
Hunter
Registered: 08/06/07
Posts: 1,102
Loc: Cope-land
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: 2859558484]
#9450080 - 12/17/08 01:28 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
wowitch17 said: there are also pan subbs mixed in there
from what i can see those are Foes man, look at the thin stem, and the red-ish tint to it.and i find it rare to find pan subbs growing straight from cow poo, i have found them in well kept yards and once from horse poo.
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landsnorkler
Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 3,047
Loc: Montana
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: smokdatkush]
#9450275 - 12/17/08 02:11 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Foes never grow from dung, If by foes you mean Panaeolina foensecii.
They're definitely a Panaeolus species, probably subbalteatus. Subbalteatus can have thin stems, and commonly have reddish stems. Another possibility is sphinctrinus or something.
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smokdatkush
Hunter
Registered: 08/06/07
Posts: 1,102
Loc: Cope-land
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: landsnorkler]
#9450354 - 12/17/08 02:24 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
landsnorkler said: Foes never grow from dung, If by foes you mean Panaeolina foensecii.
They're definitely a Panaeolus species, probably subbalteatus. Subbalteatus can have thin stems, and commonly have reddish stems. Another possibility is sphinctrinus or something.
good call on Pan. sphinctrinus, it's been a while since ive been in the hunting fourms,i need to catch up on whats been goin on in here.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,358
Last seen: 7 days, 7 hours
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: uncle_rico]
#9450531 - 12/17/08 02:49 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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The bluing ones are Copelandia sp. (microscopic examination needed) and the non-bluing ones are Panaeolus sp.
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uncle_rico
my own worst enemy
Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 2,664
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: smokdatkush]
#9450568 - 12/17/08 02:55 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks guys.
I read somewhere that Copelandias may not always blue .... so I didn't want to jump the gun and throw away some active fruits.
I have heard of people eating outrageous numbers of fruits and others eating not many and going out of their minds ! so I figured they are combining active and not so active varieties.
I'll segregate the ones that have blued / blacked and consider them Copes.
What is a standard dry dose for wild Copes?
Thanks again fellas.
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Beege
gatherer
Registered: 08/02/08
Posts: 4,466
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: uncle_rico]
#9450584 - 12/17/08 02:57 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I love these active pan threads, brings back fond memories of this past summer.
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smokdatkush
Hunter
Registered: 08/06/07
Posts: 1,102
Loc: Cope-land
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: uncle_rico]
#9450634 - 12/17/08 03:08 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
uncle_rico said: Thanks guys.
I read somewhere that Copelandias may not always blue .... so I didn't want to jump the gun and throw away some active fruits.
I have heard of people eating outrageous numbers of fruits and others eating not many and going out of their minds ! so I figured they are combining active and not so active varieties.
I'll segregate the ones that have blued / blacked and consider them Copes.
What is a standard dry dose for wild Copes?
Thanks again fellas.
well none of those are posionuos, and you will be able to tell apart the cyans from the resy just pinch the stem it will bruise dark blue within minutes. and toss out the ones with no blue bruising, pan.cyans will bruise easily man,
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cactu
culture and magic
Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 3,913
Loc: mexicoelcentrodelconocimi...
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: smokdatkush]
#9452500 - 12/17/08 09:05 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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a standard dose of cope is 1 gram dry . . for me copes are very active, real visual mushrooms , not many vision but visual distortion, good mood felling as with many paneolus , but not as intense mood as subbalteatus , subbs for me are like extasis .
if mushrooms are fresh , and fresh is best to eat then since, they loose most of the psilocin in the drying process , i eat 5 or 10 mushrooms .
enjoy
-------------------- cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa al lado se puede sentir que valio la pena haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo
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shroomgatherer
Connoisseur of the finer things
Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 1,731
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 4 months, 7 days
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: cactu]
#9454645 - 12/18/08 07:15 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cactu said:
i eat 5 or 10 mushrooms.
enjoy
I eat 6-12 on an empty stomach for an average dose. I weigh 195lbs. Dang, if Pan. subbalteatus are more like extasis then I need to find some pan. subbs. I found 1 once.
~
-------------------- "Let us declare nature to be legitimate. All plants should be declared legal, and all animals for that matter. The notion of illegal plants and animals is obnoxious and ridiculous."
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cube talk
Stranger
Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 1,223
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: shroomgatherer]
#9454888 - 12/18/08 08:23 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I disagree with throwing out the ones that don't bruise blue. Theres quite a few at the field I visit on occassion that don't bruise at all but I assure you are quite potent.
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smokdatkush
Hunter
Registered: 08/06/07
Posts: 1,102
Loc: Cope-land
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: cube talk]
#9455189 - 12/18/08 09:54 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cube talk said: I disagree with throwing out the ones that don't bruise blue. Theres quite a few at the field I visit on occassion that don't bruise at all but I assure you are quite potent.
WHAT..... cubes and copes WILL bruise blue, anyother non-active pan. will not bruise blue.
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cube talk
Stranger
Registered: 10/11/07
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: smokdatkush]
#9456550 - 12/18/08 02:56 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
smokdatkush said:
Quote:
cube talk said: I disagree with throwing out the ones that don't bruise blue. Theres quite a few at the field I visit on occassion that don't bruise at all but I assure you are quite potent.
WHAT..... cubes and copes WILL bruise blue, anyother non-active pan. will not bruise blue.
There are active species out there that don't bruise blue just so you know.
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smokdatkush
Hunter
Registered: 08/06/07
Posts: 1,102
Loc: Cope-land
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: cube talk]
#9457791 - 12/18/08 06:24 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cube talk said:
Quote:
smokdatkush said:
Quote:
cube talk said: I disagree with throwing out the ones that don't bruise blue. Theres quite a few at the field I visit on occassion that don't bruise at all but I assure you are quite potent.
WHAT..... cubes and copes WILL bruise blue, anyother non-active pan. will not bruise blue.
There are active species out there that don't bruise blue just so you know.
um yea i am aware of that, but the only actives he had found will most deff bruise blue.
all pan cyans will brusie dark blue even before picking most of the time, "AKA "blue meanies.
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cactu
culture and magic
Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 3,913
Loc: mexicoelcentrodelconocimi...
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: smokdatkush]
#9458542 - 12/18/08 08:30 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
smokdatkush said:
Quote:
cactu said: you will notice all copelandia blue . sooner or later in drying , then the blue can go black , paneolus antillarun is almost identical to copelandia cyanescens but usually antillarun are more big , more big stems as you notice, they dont blue as copelandia never, they have some sort of metallic gray look in cap when the sun shine , and paneolus sprictinus is more like the ones in the corner wich can also be subbalteatus , in my opinion they are active and more in tropical areas but not as potend as copelandia . all look like cyan but if some dont blue even in drying they are antillarum . and the small portion of maybe subbs or sprictinus .
Ive found many silverish color cyans it could be from oxidation though. ive notcied antillarun i find are bright white with alot thicker stems.
yes me too, cyan and antillarum look like that because they begging to produce spores and a small portion of the spores get into the cap and also the aging in cap change a bit the color and that how you can get that silverish look but for sure antillarun can shine in the distance with that grey metallic shine, and if you copes and antillarun side by side you will see who shine more ..there is also another variety of antillarun more small , more with a center brow color in some specimen not all ,and real white and they always look like if they where wet.
-------------------- cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa al lado se puede sentir que valio la pena haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo
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shroomgatherer
Connoisseur of the finer things
Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 1,731
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 4 months, 7 days
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: cactu]
#9461330 - 12/19/08 10:04 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Many of the copes/meanies that I've picked have turned from blue to dark-purple-black in minutes;)
~
-------------------- "Let us declare nature to be legitimate. All plants should be declared legal, and all animals for that matter. The notion of illegal plants and animals is obnoxious and ridiculous."
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Beege
gatherer
Registered: 08/02/08
Posts: 4,466
Loc: Germany
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Re: Maui Hunting 2 diff. species? (photos) [Re: cactu]
#9461812 - 12/19/08 12:05 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cactu said:
Quote:
smokdatkush said:
Quote:
cactu said: you will notice all copelandia blue . sooner or later in drying , then the blue can go black , paneolus antillarun is almost identical to copelandia cyanescens but usually antillarun are more big , more big stems as you notice, they dont blue as copelandia never, they have some sort of metallic gray look in cap when the sun shine , and paneolus sprictinus is more like the ones in the corner wich can also be subbalteatus , in my opinion they are active and more in tropical areas but not as potend as copelandia . all look like cyan but if some dont blue even in drying they are antillarum . and the small portion of maybe subbs or sprictinus .
Ive found many silverish color cyans it could be from oxidation though. ive notcied antillarun i find are bright white with alot thicker stems.
yes me too, cyan and antillarum look like that because they begging to produce spores and a small portion of the spores get into the cap and also the aging in cap change a bit the color and that how you can get that silverish look but for sure antillarun can shine in the distance with that grey metallic shine, and if you copes and antillarun side by side you will see who shine more ..there is also another variety of antillarun more small , more with a center brow color in some specimen not all ,and real white and they always look like if they where wet.
I've noticed pan ants to have more of a viscid cap, especially when wet.
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