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Offlinekoopa_troopa
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Producing a commercially viable method for inoc. truffle saplings! UPDATED with pre-TEK
    #9351812 - 12/02/08 04:59 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

I have been cultivating for several years and have somewhat mastered the cultivation of Psilocybe cubensis, and have enjoyed great success lately with several edible strains. I am by no means a master of fungi cultivation, but am very confident in my skills as a cultivator.
  After stumbling upon this article http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8337353#8337353
which asserts that the region of North Carolina in which i reside is perfect for North American truffle production. In the article Ms. Rice, the owner of what will presumably become one the largest truffle operations in North America, states that the truffles will be harvested once every five years,which she expects to bring in up to $15 million during harvest.
  If she is successful, I predict this will trigger an emense regional influx of farmers wishing to establish similar operations. Due to the difficulty of cultivation, substantial time scale, and emense cost of successfully producing a viable truffle orchard, i believe it would be  much more practical to focus on providing the saplings of Pubecent Oak trees whose roots have been innocullated with the spores of the White Truffle (Tuber magnatum) or the Black Périgord Truffle (Tuber melanosporum).
  I am posting this in hopes that some members who are more talanted and experienced than myself (which is probably a majority of this community) in fungi cultivation, can help me find the most effective method of innoculating the roots of these saplings. I have came across several methods, some of which are even patented. Most consist of making a bath of spore solution and submerging the roots in the bath, which sounds ALOT simpler than it actually is. I have found this publication very helpfull http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1449033 but would still like help in producing a simple and consistently effective method suitable for medium to large scale production operations. Ofcourse, this is a long term goal. For now, simply producing a handful of viable specimens would be paramount.
  I realize there was a thread on truffle production on these boards a couple years ago, but it died out awhile back and it focused on the complete cycle of truffle production, where this is only on the production of inoculated saplings.  I know there are many brilliant and gifted cultivators on this forum and i could use as much help as i can get.  I have already found several seriously interested investors and if anyone could help with bringing this dream to fruition, and i would gladly recipricate if this lead to a commercially viable method!  I have purchased some truffle spore syringes and am sprouting several European Oak varieties from seeds. I am ready to get my hands dirty!


Edited by koopa_troopa (04/30/09 03:24 AM)


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Offlinedenger
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Re: Help producing a commercially viable method of innoculating seedlings with truffle spores!! [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9352561 - 12/02/08 07:29 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

This is an excellent endeavour, and good thinking on your part. My applause goes to you.
While, I personally do not have any hands-on experience with truffles in particular, I would like to say that it is paramount to check that you actually have succeeded with your inoculations. One way to do this is by taking a piece of the root and checking under the microscope for mycelium interaction with the root tissue.
Another note is that it might (or might not) be more beneficial to first grow diploid mycelium and use that to inoculate roots, similar to what is done with morels.


--------------------
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OfflineForest Garden
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Re: Help producing a commercially viable method of innoculating seedlings with truffle spores!! [Re: denger]
    #9357202 - 12/03/08 01:02 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

i saw a website a few years ago that sold truffle inoculated hazelnut seedlings.    you could just buy them and plant them in your yard.    of course way too pricey if you wanted to plant multiple acres


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Offlinedenger
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Re: Help producing a commercially viable method of innoculating seedlings with truffle spores!! [Re: Forest Garden]
    #9357787 - 12/03/08 02:42 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Forest Garden said:
i saw a website a few years ago that sold truffle inoculated hazelnut seedlings.    you could just buy them and plant them in your yard.    of course way too pricey if you wanted to plant multiple acres




I dont think thats what he's after. He want to make and sell those seedlings.


--------------------
Dennis, in Love with Fungi

My improved magnetic stirrer
Breeding mushroom strains
Potato-Honey-Yeast-Agar Tek

Looking for Chantarelle and Armillaria cultures, have a huge collection of other edibles to trade.


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Offlinekoopa_troopa
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Re: Help producing a commercially viable method of innoculating seedlings with truffle spores!! [Re: denger]
    #9368020 - 12/04/08 09:30 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

hey, just got word back from the North Carolina
Farm Prosperity Project.. they are currently offering free workshops and government funding in western nc! this is my next step, i am cultivating the pubescent oak and filbert seedlings as we speak!


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Invisibleshroomophile
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Re: Help producing a commercially viable method of inoculating seedlings with truffle spores!! [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9373947 - 12/05/08 06:45 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

These are just speculation on my part.I think truffles occur in old growth ares because it is a succession of organisms that it needs to fruit.When i can find a likely place to inoculate i would like to have the soil(even 1 to 5 pounds) from the area where a sclerotia is found.I would then pasteurize a load of similar substrate and then inoculate with the Master.I would then mulch my area with that.Just a thought.


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Offlinespazn420
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Re: Help producing a commercially viable method of inoculating seedlings with truffle spores!! [Re: shroomophile]
    #9374220 - 12/05/08 07:16 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

here is a site where they sell inoculated trees. Regards


http://www.truffletree.com/order.html


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Offlinekoopa_troopa
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Re: Help producing a commercially viable method of inoculating seedlings with truffle spores!! [Re: spazn420]
    #9436555 - 12/15/08 02:47 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

While laying in bed last night an idea struck me.. what if, somehow i was able to create a hydroponic system which consisted of not only nutrients for the saplings roots but also the truffle spores, logically this seems to be a very efficient and prosperous method of root inoculation. It sounded to great to be true but this morning, thanks to the omniscient Google i found this link http://www.springerlink.com/content/xr35880715887665/.
  Although the method pertains to the cultivation of the mushroom Cantharellus cibarius, the species is still a mycorrhizal fungi (the myc. must colonize the roots of a tree before fruit bodies can form). Does anyone know how one would keep such a hydroponic unit steril or if that is even necessary? i will probably have to purchase the journal unless someone just happens to subscribe to the Mycorrhiza journal lol, maybe RogerRabit?? i would love to know your thoughts if you stumble upon this.


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Offlinekoopa_troopa
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Re: Help producing a commercially viable method of inoculating seedlings with truffle spores!! [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9436662 - 12/15/08 03:04 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)



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Offlinejjb007

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Re: Help producing a commercially viable method of inoculating seedlings with truffle spores!! [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9438377 - 12/15/08 07:14 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

koopa_troopa said:
While laying in bed last night an idea struck me.. what if, somehow i was able to create a hydroponic system which consisted of not only nutrients for the saplings roots but also the truffle spores, logically this seems to be a very efficient and prosperous method of root inoculation. It sounded to great to be true but this morning, thanks to the omniscient Google i found this link http://www.springerlink.com/content/xr35880715887665/.
  Although the method pertains to the cultivation of the mushroom Cantharellus cibarius, the species is still a mycorrhizal fungi (the myc. must colonize the roots of a tree before fruit bodies can form). Does anyone know how one would keep such a hydroponic unit steril or if that is even necessary? i will probably have to purchase the journal unless someone just happens to subscribe to the Mycorrhiza journal lol, maybe RogerRabit?? i would love to know your thoughts if you stumble upon this.





I know nothing about hydroponics or truffles, but I do know that truffles take about 5 years to develop.  And it seems that running a hydroponics system for 5 years straight would suck up a lot of energy and may end up costing a fortune.  But then again, I know nothing about hydroponics but it may be something to consider.


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Offlinedenger
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Re: Help producing a commercially viable method of inoculating seedlings with truffle spores!! [Re: jjb007]
    #9439319 - 12/15/08 09:33 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

I think he means to use hydroponics to infect plants with truffles. Afterwards they will get transplanted into normal soil.


--------------------
Dennis, in Love with Fungi

My improved magnetic stirrer
Breeding mushroom strains
Potato-Honey-Yeast-Agar Tek

Looking for Chantarelle and Armillaria cultures, have a huge collection of other edibles to trade.


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Offlinekoopa_troopa
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Re: Help producing a commercially viable method of inoculating seedlings with truffle spores!! [Re: jjb007]
    #9443356 - 12/16/08 02:16 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

jjb did you even read the thread or just my last post?? bc obviously you have no idea what the topic even is and if you know nothing of either topics and havent even bothered to have read the previous posts or the links i posted, why even post? you are wasting your time and mine.. i figured atleast somebody on these boards would be familiar with some sort of mycorrhizal fungi..


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Offlinekoopa_troopa
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Re: Help producing a commercially viable method of inoculating seedlings with truffle spores!! [Re: denger]
    #9443418 - 12/16/08 02:25 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

hey deng.. appreciate the interest you have shown in this thread even tho it appears to be going nowhere :smirk:
lol atleast someone actually read my posts i believe thats the second time you corrected a poster.. btw i love the magnetic stirrer, really clean professional look to it. Where did you get the "double gang electric box" not even sure what the hell that is haha.  I have two i have already made but i really want one with speed control.. will use your tek next


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Offlinekoopa_troopa
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Re: Help producing a commercially viable method of inoculating seedlings with truffle spores!! [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9443802 - 12/16/08 03:32 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

i have not decided yet on my method of root inoculation but i believe i have narrowed it down to two choices

1) employing a nutrient film technique (hydroponics), which would allow production the fungus on the roots of intact plants whose roots are bathed in a soil-less, nutrient solution.

Drawbacks: most methods of this require production in a greenhouse, which subjects inoculum is subject to contamination.

Possible Solution: Building a compact autoclavable hydroponic culture system for the production of axenic ectomycorrhizas and saplings. I found this method here http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119573041/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
--It describes a completely inclosed and autoclavical hydroponics system where "liquid is circulated by means of a low pressure air supply and sterility is maintained by glass fibre air-filters. Provision is made for sampling of the nutrient solution for analysis and sterility tests."

2) producing axenic (free from contamination) ectomycorrhizal fungi in association with plant root organ cultures on agar. The resulting root organ culture may be inoculated into whole plants.

Drawbacks: This technique would present substantial barriers to commercial scale-up on a cost effective basis.  From what i have read, dual-member cultures are "relatively slow to develop and their long generation times (3-8 weeks from inoculation to harvest) limit the use of capital intensive, large scale fermentation equipment for production."

Solution: employing "porous substrates, as opposed to liquid or agar substrates to improve fungal growth and sporulation and to allow for economic inoculum production. This method entails using a medium comprising porous substrates such as vermiculite wetted with nutrient solution for the development of axenic  fungi." This website details this technique
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP0209627.html although i would probably have to alter the method if this patent becomes accepted until then.. let the games begin! :grin:

If anyone is familiar with ANY of these techniques please weight in on the subject. I would be ecstatic if RogerRabbit droped by to throw his oppinion into the ring hint hint


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Offlinejjb007

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Re: Help producing a commercially viable method of inoculating seedlings with truffle spores!! [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9444361 - 12/16/08 05:19 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

koopa_troopa said:
jjb did you even read the thread or just my last post?? bc obviously you have no idea what the topic even is and if you know nothing of either topics and havent even bothered to have read the previous posts or the links i posted, why even post? you are wasting your time and mine.. i figured atleast somebody on these boards would be familiar with some sort of mycorrhizal fungi..




Yes I did... Although, as I heavily stressed, I do not know much of anything about the topic... I was just trying to provide some information that may be useful.  Apparently it was not at all useful, but oh well, at least I tried.


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Offlinedenger
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Re: Help producing a commercially viable method of inoculating seedlings with truffle spores!! [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9444991 - 12/16/08 06:57 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

koopa_troopa said:
Where did you get the "double gang electric box" not even sure what the hell that is haha.  I have two i have already made but i really want one with speed control.. will use your tek next




Home depot has them, any large hardware store or electrical supply store would have them.


--------------------
Dennis, in Love with Fungi

My improved magnetic stirrer
Breeding mushroom strains
Potato-Honey-Yeast-Agar Tek

Looking for Chantarelle and Armillaria cultures, have a huge collection of other edibles to trade.


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Offlinedenger
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Re: Help producing a commercially viable method of inoculating seedlings with truffle spores!! [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9445026 - 12/16/08 07:03 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

koopa_troopa said:
2) producing axenic (free from contamination) ectomycorrhizal fungi in association with plant root organ cultures on agar. The resulting root organ culture may be inoculated into whole plants.




I am actually quite familiar with the plant tissue culture in general and this particular approach. Commercial scale is not a problem at all. Getting it all to work to begin with is a HUGE problem. You will need tons of equipment, chemicals (for the plant tissue media) and quite a bit of know-how. I would recommend sticking with hydroponics, or using the soil methods used by morel growers. I can dig up a link to their method if you'r interested. Basic idea is to grow mycelium aseptically (agar or LC) then make spawn on appropriate media, then mix spawn with sterilized soil and grow your seedlings in this soil for a month or two. Afterwards take a root tissue sample and check under the microscope for the presence of fungal-plant interactions.


--------------------
Dennis, in Love with Fungi

My improved magnetic stirrer
Breeding mushroom strains
Potato-Honey-Yeast-Agar Tek

Looking for Chantarelle and Armillaria cultures, have a huge collection of other edibles to trade.


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Offlinekoopa_troopa
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Re: Help producing a commercially viable method of inoculating seedlings with truffle spores!! [Re: denger]
    #9446211 - 12/16/08 10:37 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

def interested in the link!  how much start up would you estimate it would take to begin a small opperation with plant tissue cultures? this seems like it would be more efficient method in the long run. the problem with the hydroponics is that i would have to find a system that can withstand autoclaving or build one, then must be inclosed in a glass inclosure similar to a giant grow box and autoclaved to insure an acceptable rate of inoculation and contam prevention.. but this method seems to have a very respectable success rate but seems that this might be difficult to do on a large scale... although i have found many examples of mycologists that are creating and patenting these systems as we speak.
  As for the soil method, is the substrate pasteurized? grown inside under lights or in a greenhouse? i have read up on some of this and it seems they are pretty contam prone, when this method in conjunction with greenhouses is used. Thanks for the info!


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Offlinedenger
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Re: Help producing a commercially viable method of inoculating seedlings with truffle spores!! [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #9446661 - 12/16/08 11:41 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

I think you are paying too much respect to sterile conditions. That would be important if you'r using spores, because contaminants easily take over media and suppress spore germination. If, instead you would grow your mycelium as you would any other mushroom, and use this grown mycelium to infect plants, the infection stage can be done in unsterile conditions. After all, the seedlings will find their way into the unsterile soil.

Check this out: http://www.morel-farms.com/discovery.html

Definitely read their patent too. This is very close to what you want to do.

As much fun plant tissue culture can be, I would not recommend going in that direction unless you just want to have a very expensive hobby.


--------------------
Dennis, in Love with Fungi

My improved magnetic stirrer
Breeding mushroom strains
Potato-Honey-Yeast-Agar Tek

Looking for Chantarelle and Armillaria cultures, have a huge collection of other edibles to trade.


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InvisibleSpeeker

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Re: Help producing a commercially viable method of inoculating seedlings with truffle spores!! [Re: denger]
    #9448104 - 12/17/08 03:28 AM (5 years, 8 months ago)

don't know how "commercially viable" method this is, but here is a video
where they are inoculating seedlings by hand with mycelium on agar.

mms://winmedia.cctv.com.cn/natureandscience/2006/11/natureandscience_128_20061128_3.wmv

Quote:


The Family of Fungi(Part 4): The Temptation of Truffles
Source: CCTV.com
11-28-2006 16:34

For hundreds of years, truffles have been sought as a rare delicacy at a high price. They are often regarded as the “caviar” of fungi. They only grow underground in forests, and can only be tracked down by certain animals. In Italy and France, tamed pigs are used to locate truffles. The dark blocks which countryside people ate in the past are now luxurious food for international VIPs.

Even today, the methods used in finding truffles in forests of oak, white poplar, hazel or beech are unchanged after hundreds of years. Truffle hunters must have patience and know how to control their pigs, as pigs are clever and omnivorous. Pig trainers must also make sure to check them in time or they will eat all the truffles. The quality and size of truffles vary with the species and place of origin, and will be evaluated after picking.

Autumn is the traditional season for hunting for truffles. Soon after sunrise, many quiet households begin to get busy. Dogs are ready to begin the day’s work. This dog is well trained for seeking truffles, and is an indispensable assistant for his master, a professional truffle picker in Burgundy. The first thing they do every morning is head into the forests. There is no need to persuade the dog, because it shares the happiness of finding a truffle with its master.

In Burgundy and other truffle production bases in the Mediterranean area, the practice of seeking truffles with pigs is decreasing and more and more dogs are being employed, as they are faster and have a keener sense of smell. They are trained in special schools or by their masters. Clever masters will give them a certain degree of freedom so that they can accomplish the task themselves. They are usually as enthusiastic as their masters.

Before washing, truffles are not particularly appealing to the eye. Experts can determine the quality of truffles from their scent. After picking a truffle, the dog will be rewarded with a piece of cheese. Before leaving the site of picking, the picker will cover the pit with soil and leaves to protect the mycelium of the truffle so that more truffles will grow. For those that are lucky, a few hours of truffle hunting in the morning may result in a few great finds. When a Burgundy or Perigord truffle is cut into halves, it shows a special texture. Its special flavor can be used to cook some of the most delicious dishes in the world.

This is the Vienna Institute of Botany. Truffles have been studied here for a long time as a special topic. Botanist Alexander Eben believes that truffles will be cultivated artificially on a large scale in the future. Like boletus, truffles are symbiotic with the soft roots of some trees. The experiment they are attempting is to graft germinant truffle substances onto the roots of young trees. Several hundred young trees have been grafted and have been growing in green houses for two years. The researchers check their growth frequently after washing off the soil. They have found that the roots are growing longer and thicker, and they are on the road to success.

In three or four years, the first batch of farmed truffles may be grown in the Austrian truffle garden. What an exciting prospect! These so called white truffles are light in color and inferior in quality. But they are still highly valued. They grow in Austrian forests and can be found by experienced pickers, usually after a storm has washed off the topsoil on hill sides and exposed the bulb like truffles. Volt Korafak begins looking along the two sides of the valley after a rainfall. His patience is often paid off. Colorful and attractive fungi grow and propagate everywhere in the forest. An ancient Siberian legend said they were driven by the magic power of the spirits of fungi.

http://www.cctv.com/program/natureandscience/20061128/104104.shtml






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