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Invisibleyasi
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Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs?
    #9334012 - 11/29/08 07:48 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

in your opinion. Please post the reason why you chose your answer.
This survey will help me greatly with my sociology paper.
Should women be allowed in combat related jobs?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (11/29/08 07:48 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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Offlinecircularvortex
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: yasi]
    #9334015 - 11/29/08 07:49 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

As long as they can pass the same requirements as the men I see no problem with it.  If they wanna fight let em fight.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, federal, or fashion police laws. All posts are works of fiction.

For well you know that its a fool who plays it cool
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Under closer inspection I realised it was a funky ball of tits from outer space.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: circularvortex]
    #9334017 - 11/29/08 07:50 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

circularvortex said:
As long as they can pass the same requirements as the men I see no problem with it.  If they wanna fight let em fight.




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Invisibleuber_aj
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: skin_]
    #9334024 - 11/29/08 07:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

skin_ said:
Quote:

circularvortex said:
As long as they can pass the same requirements as the men I see no problem with it.  If they wanna fight let em fight.






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OfflineDragonChaser
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: yasi]
    #9334027 - 11/29/08 07:52 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I said no.  Women are physically weaker, naturally.  Men are the naturally aggressive ones, and naturally stronger.  I'm pretty skinny, but I'm still stronger than all the girls I've tussled with, even if they had bigger arms.  Plus, during their "time of the month", a lot of women get even weaker.  Some can't get out of bed.  And what about girls with big tits who can't do physical stuff, like running?  Should we let women in, but just women with less than C cups?
I thought women should be allowed in the service until I saw my ex trying to do pull ups one day for a physical to see if she would be allowed into the Air Force Academy.  She couldn't even do one pull up.  I wouldn't want to rely on that in a combat scenario.


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Offlinecircularvortex
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334033 - 11/29/08 07:54 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

That's why you make them pass the same tests as men :shrug:

If they're fit for combat send em in!


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, federal, or fashion police laws. All posts are works of fiction.

For well you know that its a fool who plays it cool
By making his world a little colder.

Under closer inspection I realised it was a funky ball of tits from outer space.


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OfflineDragonChaser
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: circularvortex]
    #9334042 - 11/29/08 07:56 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

They should all be tested during their time of the month then.  If they can pass at their weakest, okay.  Still, the instance of rape in the military is so ridiculous I don't know why any women would want to join.


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Invisibleyasi
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: circularvortex]
    #9334062 - 11/29/08 08:00 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Doesn't anyone believe that a women in say the infantry would distract some if not the whole platoon? Or perhaps be treated differntly by the men?
I tend to look at it like this: If a man and a woman are bleeding out on a battlefield, who do you think would get the medical treatment first?
hypothetically that is if they had the same injury and same chance to live.


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Edited by yasi (11/29/08 08:01 PM)

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: yasi]
    #9334081 - 11/29/08 08:05 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

War is a mans game.
Women just don't fit into a combat situation.

Too many distractions, for the men and women, IMO


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: uber_aj]
    #9334123 - 11/29/08 08:14 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

uber_aj said:
Quote:

skin_ said:
Quote:

circularvortex said:
Oh god hell yes, I love to think of hot sweaty women in a cat fight and with GUNS!









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OfflineSSM_Arts
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9334140 - 11/29/08 08:18 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

They would be a good distraction and the opposing side may have a hard time killing a woman. it could be an advantage. especially if they are naked or in bikinis!


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Dedication, Patience & tenacity is the curve that grades a wannabe from a true cultivator. - Agar

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Offlinecircularvortex
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9334167 - 11/29/08 08:23 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)



Bang bang


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, federal, or fashion police laws. All posts are works of fiction.

For well you know that its a fool who plays it cool
By making his world a little colder.

Under closer inspection I realised it was a funky ball of tits from outer space.


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OfflinePlok
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: circularvortex]
    #9334180 - 11/29/08 08:26 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

:borat:


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Invisibleyasi
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: circularvortex]
    #9334185 - 11/29/08 08:27 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

guess this is the wrong place to get a serious answer.


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Offlinecircularvortex
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: yasi]
    #9334199 - 11/29/08 08:29 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

:crymeariver:


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, federal, or fashion police laws. All posts are works of fiction.

For well you know that its a fool who plays it cool
By making his world a little colder.

Under closer inspection I realised it was a funky ball of tits from outer space.


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Offlinedoom876
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334206 - 11/29/08 08:31 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DragonChaser said:
I said no.  Women are physically weaker, naturally.  Men are the naturally aggressive ones, and naturally stronger.  I'm pretty skinny, but I'm still stronger than all the girls I've tussled with, even if they had bigger arms.  Plus, during their "time of the month", a lot of women get even weaker.  Some can't get out of bed.  And what about girls with big tits who can't do physical stuff, like running?  Should we let women in, but just women with less than C cups?
I thought women should be allowed in the service until I saw my ex trying to do pull ups one day for a physical to see if she would be allowed into the Air Force Academy.  She couldn't even do one pull up.  I wouldn't want to rely on that in a combat scenario.



It's that slppery slope. If we wont let a woman "serve their country", then what other rights should they not have? Sure, they are smaller, but we use alot of guns and machines now, and some are very smart. If you wanna go become a murderer of brown people over seas, then it shouldn't be based on gender. They have meds for those "times of the month" and equipment to hold the breasts. One ex isn't something to judge all of woman kind in. It seems almost fundemental that we should let them join if they want, since we must sign up for selective service.


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Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)

Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: circularvortex]
    #9334210 - 11/29/08 08:32 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

circularvortex said:


Bang bang





i want to bang that gun

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OfflineDude96
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: circularvortex]
    #9334211 - 11/29/08 08:32 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

circularvortex said:
As long as they can pass the same requirements as the men I see no problem with it.  If they wanna fight let em fight.




Do as china does.

Women's platoons. If there's war, there's war. No one can call sexism if its women and women. The bleeding on the battle field thing was a good point, but regardless.

In my opinion they should be treated equally, assuming they can preform equally. They should not be seen as less or more capable by their sex, but rather by their physical characteristics.

If she needs to sprint in full combat gear carrying a 200lb soldier, make her sprint in full gear carrying a 200lb soldier. If she can't, she can't.

This extends not merely to women in the army, it extends to everything.


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Invisiblepong
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9334218 - 11/29/08 08:34 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

army is for men.

if a woman acts like a man then its cool, but not in my squad, id kill the bitch asap on the battlefield


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Offlinedoom876
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9334267 - 11/29/08 08:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
War is a mans game.
Women just don't fit into a combat situation.

Too many distractions, for the men and women, IMO



The whole "distraction" thing is an idiotic argument. If your soldiers are that poorly trained and that weak willed, then that is the problem, not the women. That argument is used for the "don't ask don't tell" policy. This isn't the stone age, we have the great equalizer; guns. If we don't let women in, maybe we shouldn't let weaker men in either.


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Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)

Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: pong]
    #9334284 - 11/29/08 08:58 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

pong said:
army is for men.

if a woman acts like a man then its cool, but not in my squad, id kill the bitch asap on the battlefield




sausage party?

who's bringin' the beer

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OfflineDragonChaser
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: doom876]
    #9334298 - 11/29/08 09:01 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

doom876 said:
It's that slppery slope. If we wont let a woman "serve their country", then what other rights should they not have? Sure, they are smaller, but we use alot of guns and machines now, and some are very smart. If you wanna go become a murderer of brown people over seas, then it shouldn't be based on gender. They have meds for those "times of the month" and equipment to hold the breasts. One ex isn't something to judge all of woman kind in. It seems almost fundemental that we should let them join if they want, since we must sign up for selective service.




Women are things, dude... :shrug:

Whats happened since suffrage?  The tax base doubled, making the rich richer, and the family unit has fallen apart.  Kids aren't raised by their mothers anymore, they're put into school at younger ages, or child care.  Parents can't even talk to their kids about basic things like sex and drugs anymore, they look to schools.  The state has become the new parent.

They do have medicine for that time of the month, but what happens in a combat situation if a chick loses her medicine or if they're cut off from supplies for a while and can't get the medicine?  She could be lying around cramping, dead weight to everyone else.  Some women hardly even feel that time of the month, other women experience completely debilitating pains.

You're right, one ex isn't enough to judge all women.  But the basic biological fact that women have weaker upper bodies is.  I remember in high school all the physical fitness requirements for chicks were bogus.  They didn't even have to do real pushups, they could have their knees touching the ground the whole time.


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OfflineDragonChaser
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334328 - 11/29/08 09:09 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

This girl went to my high school, a grade below me.  She's an army whore now.

I'd bet money she gets sexed up without permission.  I don't know why chicks would ever join the military with the high incidence of rape in the military.

Remember that chick who was raped, beaten and held captive in a Halliburton shipping container without food or water?
Accusations of rape generally go unpunished.  Most women never even make accusations for fear of repercussions, be they physical or with their career.



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Offlinedoom876
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334377 - 11/29/08 09:23 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

The tax base doubling isn't what made the rich richer, it was poor policy. Your statements are opinions I'd expect from my grandparents or something. There are more single parents, but the state isn't the baby sitter except the secen hours a day most kids go, home schooling is on the rise, and you learn sex shit mostly from your peers if you are in school.
Maybe we should have better trained soldiers, how about that? Ones who are to tough to rape, and a system to protect females from it. A weak upper body shouldn't exclude you from the military(fine, any skinny men can leave too), and strong women don't "lay around cramping", they get irritated, but in combat that'll probably be overlooked.
What a bunch of sexist dribble you spew.


--------------------

Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)

Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.

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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334380 - 11/29/08 09:24 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)






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OfflineDragonChaser
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: doom876]
    #9334419 - 11/29/08 09:35 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

doom876 said:
The tax base doubling isn't what made the rich richer, it was poor policy. Your statements are opinions I'd expect from my grandparents or something.



Suffrage was what allowed those policies to be exploited to their maximum potential.

Quote:

doom876 said:
There are more single parents, but the state isn't the baby sitter except the secen hours a day most kids go, home schooling is on the rise, and you learn sex shit mostly from your peers if you are in school.




Kids get dumped into child care at 2 years of age now, instead of entering school at 4 or 5.  C-sections have skyrocketed so that women can plan when they are going to have their babies, because their schedules are too busy to be interrupted by a natural birth.  The rise in C-sections has led to a rise in respiratory infections and poorer health in children.  Less than a third of all C-sections now are medically necessary.
And you don't learn sex facts from your peers, you learn stupid shit like "you can't get pregnant by having sex in a pool or with the girl on top".  Or you hear stories of your friends sexual escapades, kids don't go around spreading sexual facts.
Homeschooling may be on the rise, but moves are being made to ban it.  California just did that.


Quote:

doom876 said:
Maybe we should have better trained soldiers, how about that? Ones who are to tough to rape, and a system to protect females from it. A weak upper body shouldn't exclude you from the military(fine, any skinny men can leave too), and strong women don't "lay around cramping", they get irritated, but in combat that'll probably be overlooked.



Well, if all soldiers are better trained, then men will just have more skills to rape the women, even if the women have better skills to defend themselves.
And weak upper body shouldn't exclude you from the military?  WTF?  Maybe not the navy or air force, but in the army, or marines it certainly should.
I don't care how strong the woman is.  Some womens cycles are simply debilitating.  Medical fact.  I've seen very strong women stay home from school or work because the pains were too much for them to walk around.

What a bunch of equality laden bullshit you spew.  The genders are not equal.  I'm not saying one is overall better... but certainly each have their own strengths.  Fighting/killing would be one of mens strengths.

By the way... you compared my opinion to one your grandparents would have.  Ever think that maybe your grandparents are a lot wiser than you, given they've been around maybe 3 times as long?  To disregard the wisdom of the elderly is often foolhardiness.


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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Dude96]
    #9334443 - 11/29/08 09:42 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dude96 said:
They should not be seen as less or more capable by their sex, but rather by their physical characteristics.





are you dumb, or blind?

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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: California]
    #9334453 - 11/29/08 09:45 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Their vagina's get all sorts of diseases out der in da hole.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Dude96]
    #9334482 - 11/29/08 09:56 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

circularvortex said:
As long as they can pass the same requirements as the men I see no problem with it.  If they wanna fight let em fight.





Quote:

Dude96 said:
In my opinion they should be treated equally, assuming they can preform equally. They should not be seen as less or more capable by their sex, but rather by their physical characteristics.

If she needs to sprint in full combat gear carrying a 200lb soldier, make her sprint in full gear carrying a 200lb soldier. If she can't, she can't.

This extends not merely to women in the army, it extends to everything.





Yea, but they don't have the same physical requirements as men.

I'm cool with women serving in the military,
But, there are situations in combat, that women shouldn't have to deal with....and quite honestly wouldn't be able to cope with, emotionally/mentally


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: California]
    #9334494 - 11/29/08 10:00 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

1.I meant out policies that allow corperations to have such sway and leaneancy that the large ones(Walmart) are so huge that it's unreal, the FTA's, and just the general nature of capitalism.

2.There are alot of kids about, and one parent working can rarely support a family now. I have heard of C sections used for conveniance, though a doc wont do it for that reason if the baby or will not be safe; just because it isn't necesarry doesn't mean it's wrong. Maybe manditory maternity pay? I mean, there are only a few countries that don't have it and the other four are third world. Kids do spread shit; my mom and stepdad gave me the talk.

3.There are most likely weaker men in the military, who managed to push through, and women deserve that chance too. It's extra soldiers on the field, if anything, and I don't think their issues are enough to make them a danger. We have boot-camp and whatnot to make sure they can hack it, and if their cramps are too much, then their weakness will show. Their cycle is hardly a reason to bar them, not every woman is turned into a useless pile of goo by them.

We are not equal in differant areas, but we are not unequal enough to ban one from the military. If we are that unequal, then maybe we should just go back to when women couldn't vote or show skin.

No, I don't think they are. My grandparents are extreamly foolish, racist, conservative, christian people. My grandma wont even get the internet because she thinks someone will steal all her information. My grandma is insane almost from abusing her diabetes, and my grandpa is a little dull. Age doesn't always bring wisdom, and they are an example.


--------------------

Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)

Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334496 - 11/29/08 10:01 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Suffrage was what allowed those policies to be exploited to their maximum potential.




This is a ridiculous argument and you couldn't even begin to prove it.

In fact, everything you've said so far has been mind-numbingly stupid.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9334498 - 11/29/08 10:02 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

You wont to get shot at, go right ahead......


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: doom876]
    #9334500 - 11/29/08 10:02 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Old people are stuck in the time which they grew up in from what i've noticed. I do find it annoying how i have to fill out a draft form to get any government help or to even apply to college yet females get a passerby but still can apply into the military.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9334502 - 11/29/08 10:03 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Nothing wrong with women in combat, i can think of many wars where women were in a combat situation.

Russia had many women in the armed forces, during WWII they had a all-female fighter/bombers squadron, the germans absolutely hated them and would execute them whenever they got their hands on them.

Countries like Israel and Switzerland make it mandatory for all citizens male and female to serve in the armed forces for a certain time.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Redstorm]
    #9334505 - 11/29/08 10:04 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

How about you bring some facts then to disagree with the things I've said, instead of just dropping your opinion in like a piece of fecal material falling from your mouth?


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334512 - 11/29/08 10:06 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DragonChaser said:
How about you bring some facts then to disagree with the things I've said, instead of just dropping your opinion in like a piece of fecal material falling from your mouth?




He makes a lot more sense then you do, perhaps the source of the fecal matter is from your mouth.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9334523 - 11/29/08 10:10 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

How does he make more sense than I do?

He latched onto one opinion that I made in this thread.  He didn't even begin to argue with the facts I brought up.  It was obvious I was kidding about suffrage being a negative thing, how I preceded my argument with "women are things :shrug:".

I backed up the rest of my arguments with facts.  He provided no facts, instead just latched onto the one opinion I dropped.  Suffrage had negative effects.  Bottom line.  Ignoring the financial side, children now have less time to spend with either parent.  Which is not going to be positive.  Unless you think that more time in day-care or in front of the television is a good thing.

Ever read Fahrenheit 451?  He specifically talks about the degradation of the family unit.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334526 - 11/29/08 10:12 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

You're the one who made the claim with absolutely no substance backing it up whatsoever. It's not my job to research your shitty points for you.

Learn how debate works, then come back and we can try this again.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Redstorm]
    #9334530 - 11/29/08 10:13 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

If you attack all my points, which you did, its your job to come back with other facts.

Why don't you learn how debating works?


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334541 - 11/29/08 10:16 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

:lol:

Did you just repeat my post? Anyways, if you realize your points have no merit behind them, just say so and it'll make this much easier for all of us.

Also, do you realize how stupid it is for you to ask me to prove that suffrage for women has not led to the income qualities you stated? You do realize that proving that would be impossible, correct? Either you are too much of a shovel-faced mongoloid to realize that or enough of a scumbag to try the tactic anyways. Your choice.

I will await your proof for how universal suffrage led to these problems, but don't seriously think you'll come up with anything.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334544 - 11/29/08 10:17 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DragonChaser said:
How does he make more sense than I do?

He latched onto one opinion that I made in this thread.  He didn't even begin to argue with the facts I brought up.  It was obvious I was kidding about suffrage being a negative thing, how I preceded my argument with "women are things :shrug:".

I backed up the rest of my arguments with facts.  He provided no facts, instead just latched onto the one opinion I dropped.  Suffrage had negative effects.  Bottom line.  Ignoring the financial side, children now have less time to spend with either parent.  Which is not going to be positive.  Unless you think that more time in day-care or in front of the television is a good thing.

Ever read Fahrenheit 451?  He specifically talks about the degradation of the family unit.




First of all suffrage means, "right to vote" explain to me how a women having the right to vote effects society negatively. You throw around a term you dont even know what it means.

second of all, more women are in the work place not because of "suffrage" but because the economic situation calls for both parents to work, the 1950's era of a comfortable blue collar existence is over.

What you're saying about children being raised by television, or the state, or anything else is simple conjecture, pure and simple. You havent stated any facts, just anecdotes and conjecture.

So far he makes way more sense then you do.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334554 - 11/29/08 10:19 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ever read Fahrenheit 451?  He specifically talks about the degradation of the family unit.




Bradbury is not a sociologist, he is a fiction writer.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Redstorm]
    #9334562 - 11/29/08 10:21 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I'm referring to all of the rest of my points, which you attacked by saying "everything you said has been mind numbingly stupid", not the suffrage point.

If you attack all my points in a debate, you are required to provide evidence for your attacks on all of them.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334566 - 11/29/08 10:22 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Ok, here's how I can debunk EVERY SINGLE point you've made so far:

Every bit of it is either unsupported opinion of conjecture. You have nothing supporting anything you say; you just say it and hope people will believe you.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Redstorm]
    #9334573 - 11/29/08 10:25 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DragonChaser said:C-sections have skyrocketed so that women can plan when they are going to have their babies, because their schedules are too busy to be interrupted by a natural birth.  The rise in C-sections has led to a rise in respiratory infections and poorer health in children.  Less than a third of all C-sections now are medically necessary.

Homeschooling may be on the rise, but moves are being made to ban it.  California just did that.





Oh really?  Google C-sections and Homeschooling in California.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334581 - 11/29/08 10:27 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

That's not how it works. You can't just spout numbers. What are your sources?

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Redstorm]
    #9334624 - 11/29/08 10:34 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Cesarean section (c-section) is delivery of a baby by surgery. An incision (cut) is made in the mother's belly and uterus (womb). According to the National Center for Health Statistics, 1 in 3 babies in the United States is delivered by cesarean section.
Over the past few years, the rate of cesarean birth has increased rapidly.
The National Center for Health Statistics estimates that 1 in 3 babies in the United States are delivered by c-section. Over the past few years, the rate of cesarean birth has increased rapidly. Some health care providers believe that many
c-sections are medically unnecessary. When a woman has a cesarean, the benefits of the procedure should outweigh the risks. For more information, see the article Cesarean Birth by Request.
Some women may prefer to have a cesarean section instead of a vaginal birth, even without medical need. It may be appealing for both the woman and the health care provider to consider cesarean because it helps them plan their schedules. Some women ask for c-section because they are worried about the pain of vaginal delivery.

http://www.marchofdimes.com/pnhec/240_1031.asp

#  The World Health Organization (WHO) states that no region in the world is justified in having a cesarean rate greater than 10 to 15 percent.
# In the past twenty years, the cesarean section rates have nearly quintupled in the US to 23.8% in 1989 and nearly quadrupled in Canada to 18.3% in 1987-8.
#  A cesarean section poses documented medical risks to the mother's health, including infections, hemorrhage, transfusion, injury to other organs, anesthesia complications, psychological complications, and a maternal mortality two to four times greater than that for a vaginal birth.
# An elective cesarean section increases the risk to the infant of premature birth and respiratory distress syndrome, both of which are associated with multiple complications, intensive care and burdensome financial costs. Even mature babies, the absences of labor increases the risk of breathing problems and other complications.
# Cesareans can delay the opportunity for early mother-newborn interaction, breastfeeding and the establishment of family bonds.
# In the US and Canada, over one-third of all cesareans are repeat cesareans. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) recommends that the concept of routine repeat cesarean be replaced by a specific indication for surgery, and that most women can be counseled and encouraged to labor and have a vaginal birth after a cesarean
# Some health care experts believe that many c-sections are medically unnecessary. A cesarean section is major surgery and should be done only when the health of the mother or baby is at risk


http://www.childbirth.org/section/CSFact.html

California Court Bans Homeschooling
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=25469


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Redstorm]
    #9334633 - 11/29/08 10:37 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

And Ray Bradbury may have just been a writer, but so was George Orwell.  And a lot of their predictions are slowly being shown true.

You can't deny that children are becoming more and more sociopathic.  School shootings, children kidnapping and torturing other children, pushing old people off docks, doing insane things.

Some people say its violent video games.  Some people say its violence on TV.  I say its because the family unit is breaking apart because children spend less time with their parents since they both work.  Thats my opinion, and I think its a lot more likely than most.  You can dislike my opinion, but that doesn't give you the right to refer to me as mongoloid or say that everything I've said is stupid.


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Edited by DragonChaser (11/29/08 10:39 PM)

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9334638 - 11/29/08 10:37 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
explain to me how a women having the right to vote effects society negatively.




Barack Obama

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334644 - 11/29/08 10:39 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

On C-sections:

Where are your numbers showing that less than 1/3 of them are necessary What numbers show that they are increasing to meet schedule needs?

On homeschooling (welcome to the present):

Quote:

On Aug. 8, however, the same judges made an equally surprising reversal of this decision. Judge H. Walter Croskey, presiding over the Second District Court of Appeal in Los Angeles, wrote that as long as parents declare their home to be a private school, they may continue to homeschool their children, even if the parents do not have credentials.




http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1832485,00.html

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334687 - 11/29/08 10:48 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DragonChaser said:
Some women may prefer to have a cesarean section instead of a vaginal birth, even without medical need. It may be appealing for both the woman and the health care provider to consider cesarean because it helps them plan their schedules. Some women ask for c-section because they are worried about the pain of vaginal delivery.

http://www.marchofdimes.com/pnhec/240_1031.asp





Thats my source, I'm too tired and sick to look for more specific stats.
Quote:

DragonChaser said:
#  The World Health Organization (WHO) states that no region in the world is justified in having a cesarean rate greater than 10 to 15 percent.
# In the past twenty years, the cesarean section rates have nearly quintupled in the US to 23.8% in 1989 and nearly quadrupled in Canada to 18.3% in 1987-8.





Are you incapable of reading between the lines or making educated deductions?
If the WHO is correct that no region in the world, no matter how shitty the prenatal care, is justified in medically needing a 10-15 c-section rate, and America, which has good prenatal care had a 24% C-section rate, increasing to a full 1/3 in recent years, then that would suggest that more than half of the C-sections are medically unnecessary.

I'm going to stick this in here again, in case you missed it earlier since I edited after you posted.

And Ray Bradbury may have just been a writer, but so was George Orwell.  And a lot of their predictions are slowly being shown true.

You can't deny that children are becoming more and more sociopathic.  School shootings, children kidnapping and torturing other children, pushing old people off docks, doing insane things.

Some people say its violent video games.  Some people say its violence on TV.  I say its because the family unit is breaking apart because children spend less time with their parents since they both work.  Thats my opinion, and I think its a lot more likely than most.  You can dislike my opinion, but that doesn't give you the right to refer to me as mongoloid or say that everything I've said is stupid.


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Edited by DragonChaser (11/29/08 10:49 PM)

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334869 - 11/29/08 11:30 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for derailing this thread


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: California]
    #9334949 - 11/29/08 11:47 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Oregon said:
Quote:

Dude96 said:
They should not be seen as less or more capable by their sex, but rather by their physical characteristics.





are you dumb, or blind?




Neither. Sex defines them as generally having less upper body strength.

That big butch chick who can bench 200 lbs doesn't seem to have a problem though, so why not let her in? I understand theres more to it, but the difficulties could be prevented. Hell, look at china, they have a huge ass women's army.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Dude96]
    #9335017 - 11/30/08 12:03 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dude96 said:
Hell, look at china, they have a huge ass women's army.




I think that having a separate all female Army would be OK

Having a co-ed (combat) Army is not such a good idea though.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9335029 - 11/30/08 12:06 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

Dude96 said:
Hell, look at china, they have a huge ass women's army.




I think that having a separate all female Army would be OK

Having a co-ed (combat) Army is not such a good idea though.




Oh I agree, unless serious changes were made.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Dude96]
    #9335045 - 11/30/08 12:08 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Yea, like having the same physical requirments.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9337761 - 11/30/08 02:26 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

This thread gave me a stiffy...

:penis:


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: yasi]
    #9337802 - 11/30/08 02:35 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

They should be allowed to serve anywhere in the military except in any recon or special operations capacity, with the exception of civil affairs and psychological warfare.

So pretty much has it stands now.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9337824 - 11/30/08 02:39 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

they have men and women prisons, they should have men and women groups in the military.


but i do think the test for women to get into the military should be equivelent to a mans test.


if they want to fight and risk their lives for their gov'ts choices, why the fuck not shouldn't they be allowed to?


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: igwna]
    #9337855 - 11/30/08 02:45 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

you guys know that women can serve pretty much everywhere in the military right?

I've known an MP batallion that was chock full of women and they got in some serious shit in Iraq. We nicknamed them the Amazons.

They just can't be in the infantry or direct combat roles.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9339173 - 11/30/08 06:11 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Congratulations, you have all become part of my sociology project!


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: yasi]
    #9339208 - 11/30/08 06:17 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

women are good soldiers with something to barter instead of being shot if ever taken as a pow

they couldnt make special forces tho

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: circularvortex]
    #9339996 - 11/30/08 08:12 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

No... I don't think that anyone should be allowed to serve in the military...


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: filthee]
    #9340005 - 11/30/08 08:14 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

filthee said:
women are good soldiers with something to barter instead of being shot if ever taken as a pow




Wow... lucky them! They get to be raped instead of just beaten!

:rolleyes:


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: yasi]
    #9340008 - 11/30/08 08:14 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

yasi said:
Congratulations, you have all become part of my sociology project!




Thanks! Make sure to add in it has nothing to do with sexism.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: jvm]
    #9340047 - 11/30/08 08:20 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

jvm said:
Quote:

yasi said:
Congratulations, you have all become part of my sociology project!




Thanks! Make sure to add in it has nothing to do with sexism.




How do you figure? you're opinion on whether or not women should be allowed in combat specifically relates to gender roles.
That is classified under sex, gender, and sexuality which all relate to sexism.
:ganja: :mattz:


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Edited by yasi (11/30/08 08:26 PM)

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9340054 - 11/30/08 08:21 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
They should be allowed to serve anywhere in the military except in any recon or special operations capacity, with the exception of civil affairs and psychological warfare.

So pretty much has it stands now.




You realize though during WWII and the Cold War the allies employed shit tons of female spy's and others who arranged covert activities.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9340088 - 11/30/08 08:25 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

And now i get to observe first hand the guinea pig affect!
:gizmo:
Not a guinea pig but close enough....


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9340096 - 11/30/08 08:26 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

although the concept of a modern military is not one i circumstantially agree with, i feel all women that desire to use and own firearms should go right ahead.

+ combat grade vehicles and equipment and everything of course.


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Edited by anyone420 (11/30/08 08:31 PM)

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: anyone420]
    #9340123 - 11/30/08 08:29 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I voted before I thought about it, but I think that women can and have been a very real force in past military operations.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: anyone420]
    #9340141 - 11/30/08 08:31 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Thank you everyone for your input. After 7am pacific time I will no longer need the threads for my project. Happy posting!
:tongue2:


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9340330 - 11/30/08 08:55 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Maoist groups like FARC, Sendero Luminoso, Syrian Socialist Nationalist Party,Kurdish PKK, have all traditionally included women into combat roles. Women throughout history have played key roles in warfare, some of our greatest military planners were women.










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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9340705 - 11/30/08 10:06 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

You do realize that this was supposed to be specifically on the united states military, right?
It doesn't help my project giving reference to guerrilla groups


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9340826 - 11/30/08 10:28 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
some of our greatest military planners were women.





Source?

Plus, guerrilla groups take anyone, even children.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9341158 - 11/30/08 11:25 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
you guys know that women can serve pretty much everywhere in the military right?

I've known an MP batallion that was chock full of women and they got in some serious shit in Iraq. We nicknamed them the Amazons.

They just can't be in the infantry or direct combat roles.





Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Maoist groups like FARC, Sendero Luminoso, Syrian Socialist Nationalist Party,Kurdish PKK, have all traditionally included women into combat roles.






I have no real problem with women going into combat.
It is really their decision.

I just don't like the co-ed situation in the US military.
But, segregation is a big no-no here so I doubt that you will ever see segregated male/female combat troups.

I just don't want to be in the trenches
under fire and have to rely on a female soldier to throw me over her shoulder and get me to cover....
if the need arises.

A woman carrying another woman is much more doable IMO.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9342467 - 12/01/08 07:16 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

that last picture looks like they are children.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9342533 - 12/01/08 07:55 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DragonChaser said:
Plus, guerrilla groups take anyone, even children.



I would hope our military is striving to be more effective than guerrilla troops...


I voted no.  It's obvious why

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: memes]
    #9342551 - 12/01/08 08:03 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I think men and women have different strengths and weaknesses. Women can shoot and run. Maybe not carry heavy things, or run as fast, or fight hand to hand as well (like that ever happens with the US military anyway?).

Unfortunately, women's strengths (above men) dont really lie in the military, combat roles. They lie back in camp, in society, with children, with negotiation, with words & togetherness.. instead of action & violence

even if some women escape this ideal.. most dont. just like some men can do womenly things very well.. but most dont

im sure some ppl think it is all culture.. and this is entirely possible. but that only means that women could potentially be equal to men (and vice versa) in the future.. as for today, culture is how it is, and so are men&women


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: yasi]
    #9342707 - 12/01/08 09:05 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

yasi said:
Quote:

jvm said:
Quote:

yasi said:
Congratulations, you have all become part of my sociology project!




Thanks! Make sure to add in it has nothing to do with sexism.




How do you figure? you're opinion on whether or not women should be allowed in combat specifically relates to gender roles.
That is classified under sex, gender, and sexuality which all relate to sexism.
:ganja: :mattz:




I just think men should do their roles and women should do their roles. I don't see why anyone needed to make up an ism for that. Men are built warriors and women are built nurturers. That is why men have a lot of testosterone compared to women and women have a lot of estrogen compared to men. Sure men and women can be whatever they like but one of these days men and women are going to have to accept the fact that they are made different for a reason. The differences have different properties for which each sex is good at. It's not whether or not i think they can do it or not. It's more that i think women shouldn't do it because they would be much better using their natural given properties. If they lower themselves to a mans properties because they are lacking the warrior properties they are not using their given gender role wisely. A lot of women these days seem jealous of males because of the specific power they have. I find that completely absurd. Those women must be clueless about themselves because they have a natural given power of love and are not using it.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: yasi]
    #9342758 - 12/01/08 09:18 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I say no, and I'm a woman. 

In a military situation, women can still do a lot though to help though.  In the medical tents, in the supply or food service area, doing secretary stuff, answering phones, working in intelligence etc.  Women also need to be around to help children during war time and help other women, especially in societies where males are not allowed contact with women of that culture. 

But I don't think women should be handling bombs, etc and fighting on the front lines. Women in a combat situation is a bad idea, especially if the men feel a bit horny and take it out on women.  Next thing she knows, she's pregnant.  A pregnant woman isn't going to be useful in combat.  Yeah the whole menstrual thing gets in the way too.  What happens when there is a supply shortage of feminine products?  That would be a bad thing, especially in societies where a menstruating woman are still seen as unclean.

Look at all the stuff women did during WW1 and WW2, helping out the military.  Many young single women left home to go work on the big British country estates to work as farm girls, or dealing with the rationing paperwork.  In the states they worked on Victory Gardens and had baby sitting services so women could assist on the homefront. 

http://archives.cbc.ca/war_conflict/second_world_war/topics/855/

But I see nothing wrong with women working on computer networks, watching radar, or even flying planes.  Air Force is probably best for women, especially if an officer instead of regular enlisted.

Try to find this on torrent, "Wartime Kitchen and Garden" from the BBC.  Lots of good old wartime footage of what women did during WW2.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0879767/

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: jvm]
    #9342760 - 12/01/08 09:20 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Normally I would be like fuck you guys, but.....I don't think women should be in military combat. Believe it or not we can think logically but it does tie a lot in with emotion.  I couldn't do it, I couldn't kill people like that, I'd break down.  Men tend to be able to push emotion into the back of them, physically yes we can hand it, mentally (emotianally)no I don't think we can, or atleast I can't.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9342957 - 12/01/08 10:04 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DragonChaser said:
Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
some of our greatest military planners were women.





Source?

Plus, guerrilla groups take anyone, even children.




Queen Mavia in the third century AD and Queen Zenobia in the second century repeatedly defeating roman battalions. Both were brilliant commanders and military theorists. Celt's, Scythian's Pheonicians and many other ancient eurasian peoples included women in traditional combat roles, It was not uncommon at all for a entire army of men to be commanded by a woman. With the rise of christianity and outcries for women to fit a more traditional meek role as weaker gender most militaries prohibited women from joining the military. However women commanders like Joan of Arc and Agustina de Aragon still proliferated.

Recently, Marxist and Communist armies usually include women in all combat roles, mainly because they believe in gender neutrality. The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam have all female cadre's who are incredibly brutal and effective. The female black tigers are their elitist cadre, skilled in rapid deployment and small group tactics and assymetrics.

Women are increasingly being used now more and more in assymetrical warfare one only need to watch The Battle Of Algiers.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: yasi]
    #9342971 - 12/01/08 10:07 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Joan of Arc. 

They are fully capable and they also want equal rights, give them what they want.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Cowgold]
    #9343032 - 12/01/08 10:22 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cowgold said:
Joan of Arc. 

They are fully capable and they also want equal rights, give them what they want.




If the P.T. requirements were tha same I'd have no problems with women on the front lines.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Cowgold]
    #9343038 - 12/01/08 10:22 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cowgold said:
Joan of Arc. 

They are fully capable and they also want equal rights, give them what they want.




Amen buddy...

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9343066 - 12/01/08 10:28 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Quote:

Cowgold said:
Joan of Arc. 

They are fully capable and they also want equal rights, give them what they want.




Amen buddy...




Thats the problem though, they dont want it. Its a small minority that argue for it.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9343074 - 12/01/08 10:29 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

such is true of all rights

but that doesn't invalidate the minority, not that your trying to say that.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: anyone420]
    #9343092 - 12/01/08 10:32 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Serving in the military isnt a right.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9343138 - 12/01/08 10:40 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

call it whatever you want.  its wholly irrelevant to me what military service entails, the point is that although only a fraction of the population fights for the ability to do X, that doesn't on its face mean that their cause is wrong. 

anyway

saying women cant serve in the military makes about as much sense as saying men shouldn't be able to aid in childbirth because they don't have vagina's


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: anyone420]
    #9343170 - 12/01/08 10:46 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

anyone420 said:
saying women cant serve in the military makes about as much sense as saying men shouldn't be able to aid in childbirth because they don't have vagina's




No one here said that women shouldn't serve in the military.

I just don't believe that they should be able to serve in front line combat units, unless they pass the same physical requirements as men.

There are MANY roles that women can play in the military and not have to be as physically strong as a man.

To put a woman, who can't pass a mans physical test, into a combat situation, is not fair to the men or women.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9343195 - 12/01/08 10:52 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

oh, of course.  people unfit for combat are a liability.

although i would also argue that male and females have different strengths, and modern warfare often favors more than brute strength.  Because a woman cannot bench the same weight, or climb the rope as fast, does not necessarily mean she is any less capable.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: anyone420]
    #9343237 - 12/01/08 11:00 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

:whatever:

Brute strength is a MUST for combat.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9343249 - 12/01/08 11:04 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Happy birthday old man!

:birthday:      :bigjoint::birthday:


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9343260 - 12/01/08 11:08 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

:grin:
Thanks


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9343283 - 12/01/08 11:11 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
:whatever:

Brute strength is a MUST for combat.




what kinda combat are we talking here? 

firearms don't require much strength

neither do tanks and planes and missles

if were talking hand to hand combat, anyone who knows anything about fighting will tell you strength is important, but technique will always overcome size

i think athletic ability is more important than strength


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: anyone420]
    #9343294 - 12/01/08 11:13 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

The ability to carry a full pack over many miles is an element of brute strength.

Being able to carry your buddy to cover is an element of brute strength.

There is more to combat than shooting am M-16 dude.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9343327 - 12/01/08 11:18 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:

There is more to combat than shooting am M-16 dude.




exactly, your excluding 50% of the population from combat because they aren't quite as strong as their counterpart.

What if you chose to exclude all men from the military, because they couldn't climb through small tunnels as well, or couldn't sneak as efficiently because they are heavier in general, or were bigger targets?


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: anyone420]
    #9343344 - 12/01/08 11:23 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Boy, you are really stretching it now aren't ya
:rolleyes:


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9343380 - 12/01/08 11:30 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Quote:

DragonChaser said:
Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
some of our greatest military planners were women.





Source?

Plus, guerrilla groups take anyone, even children.




Queen Mavia in the third century AD and Queen Zenobia in the second century repeatedly defeating roman battalions. Both were brilliant commanders and military theorists. Celt's, Scythian's Pheonicians and many other ancient eurasian peoples included women in traditional combat roles, It was not uncommon at all for a entire army of men to be commanded by a woman. With the rise of christianity and outcries for women to fit a more traditional meek role as weaker gender most militaries prohibited women from joining the military. However women commanders like Joan of Arc and Agustina de Aragon still proliferated.

Recently, Marxist and Communist armies usually include women in all combat roles, mainly because they believe in gender neutrality. The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam have all female cadre's who are incredibly brutal and effective. The female black tigers are their elitist cadre, skilled in rapid deployment and small group tactics and assymetrics.

Women are increasingly being used now more and more in assymetrical warfare one only need to watch The Battle Of Algiers.






As you pointed out COMMANDING roles, But they were not in direct combat.
As i learned in my military experience that any occupation can switch to a command role in the infantry. I had a lieutenant that came from supply once. But to be actual infantry? It doesn't happen


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9343383 - 12/01/08 11:30 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

reality doesn't need stretching :razz:


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9343397 - 12/01/08 11:33 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Actually strength is minor.
It's having the proper mindset.
I had some of the most athletic guys fall out of 27 mile humps because they mind fucked themselves.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: doom876]
    #9343454 - 12/01/08 11:43 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

doom876 said:
Quote:

niteowl said:
War is a mans game.
Women just don't fit into a combat situation.

Too many distractions, for the men and women, IMO



The whole "distraction" thing is an idiotic argument. If your soldiers are that poorly trained and that weak willed, then that is the problem, not the women. That argument is used for the "don't ask don't tell" policy. This isn't the stone age, we have the great equalizer; guns. If we don't let women in, maybe we shouldn't let weaker men in either.


Ummm thats sort of the entire premise for the "Physical" portion of basic training..... and no, distraction is not an idiortic argument. You can train and train and train your men all you want, but when youve been on deployment for the last 28 months, the only pussy realted thing youve seen is that camels toe, and suddenly a woman joins your infantry platoon...no, im sorry, you could not "train" a man to handle that. Its a basic insticnt of life.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: yasi]
    #9343477 - 12/01/08 11:47 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I think separate units would be good. Telling women they can't go join their country's military seems unfair, but I think it's obvious that the majority of women who join can't keep up with the men. The points have pretty much been beaten to death so I won't explain further.

The only problem is when you get one group of women who preform as well or better than the majority of the groups of men. Then everyone says "Look, the women can do it too, you sexist pigs!" Which just isn't true.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: jewunit]
    #9343493 - 12/01/08 11:49 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

jewunit said:
I think separate units would be good. Telling women they can't go join their country's military seems unfair, but I think it's obvious that the majority of women who join can't keep up with the men. The points have pretty much been beaten to death so I won't explain further.

The only problem is when you get one group of women who preform as well or better than the majority of the groups of men. Then everyone says "Look, the women can do it too, you sexist pigs!" Which just isn't true.




:handth:


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9343612 - 12/01/08 12:05 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

jewunit said:
I think separate units would be good. Telling women they can't go join their country's military seems unfair, but I think it's obvious that the majority of women who join can't keep up with the men. The points have pretty much been beaten to death so I won't explain further.

The only problem is when you get one group of women who preform as well or better than the majority of the groups of men. Then everyone says "Look, the women can do it too, you sexist pigs!" Which just isn't true.




:handth:





On to the next sexist debate, then.

Should women be allowed to play in the real NBA?
Should they?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (12/01/08 12:05 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Cowgold]
    #9343749 - 12/01/08 12:31 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I'd think the dudes would rather play in the WNBA, that being the premier league and all.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: yasi]
    #9343842 - 12/01/08 12:47 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

has anyone seen a woman thats on your team blown to pieces, with her pretty little face all covered in blood and guts? maybe she shit herself before hand because the screaming guy next to her with no lower half was too much for her to take. shit, if anything, that would make all the guys fight harder cuz theyd be so pissed at how fucked up that shit is to have a woman suffering the horror of war.

personally, i think humans shouldnt even be having to make the decision of war or training for war. but we do, and that is why we're all going to die.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Nunbuh_Chrubble]
    #9343847 - 12/01/08 12:49 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Nunbuh_Chrubble said:
Quote:

filthee said:
women are good soldiers with something to barter instead of being shot if ever taken as a pow




Wow... lucky them! They get to be raped instead of just beaten!

:rolleyes:




shot versus beaten hmmm hard of reading write

id rather be raped,then beaten then shot but i aint a lucky woman

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: yasi]
    #9343900 - 12/01/08 12:57 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

yasi said:
As you pointed out COMMANDING roles, But they were not in direct combat.
As i learned in my military experience that any occupation can switch to a command role in the infantry. I had a lieutenant that came from supply once. But to be actual infantry? It doesn't happen




No, they were in direct combat on the frontlines, and many of them died in battle.



Quote:

filthee said:
shot versus beaten hmmm hard of reading write

id rather be raped,then beaten then shot but i aint a lucky woman




Men get beaten and raped too when they become POW's, more men are raped in prison then women outside of prison. A woman can fight just as good as any other man. The soviets had some of the greatest female pilot ace's. With the rise of Fourth Generation Warfare you'll see a lot more of women being used in assyemetrics.

Niteowl: Wearing a heavy backpack and ridiculous armor and uniforms doesnt make a good soldier, the best camoflage is the clothing of a regular person, who can dissapear into the crowd. A simple backpack is all thats needed.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9343933 - 12/01/08 01:02 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

i agree

i just see a woman as having an extra advantage or opportunity tool to bargain with and maybe slip the icepick into the rapists back lol

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9344032 - 12/01/08 01:19 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Niteowl: Wearing a heavy backpack and ridiculous armor and uniforms doesnt make a good soldier, the best camoflage is the clothing of a regular person, who can dissapear into the crowd. A simple backpack is all thats needed.




:whatever:

You have no idea what combat is like.
No idea at all.

Must be nice living in that fantasy world of yours.
Can I come over and play with you?


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: filthee]
    #9344074 - 12/01/08 01:26 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

filthee said:
i agree

i just see a woman as having an extra advantage or opportunity tool to bargain with and maybe slip the icepick into the rapists back lol




It makes em a bit more tenacious on not getting captured.

Russian women fighters were incredibly effective against the nazi's, the nazi's were demoralized by them with their belief in their racial superiority, they tortured and killed any soviet female fighters they could find.

One of the most famous is Lyudmila Pavlichenko Was a female soviet sniper who was credited with over 300 confirmed kills, using only a mosin-nagant bolt action rifle and a scope.

Partisans all during WWII were interspersed with female fighters placed in combat roles, they made great strides against the Nazi occupier, harassing his supply lines and cutting communications and sabotage and assassination. Women fighters through out history have been crucial in conflicts. Groups like the Maquis would include many women in their forces, when once they were traditionally barred from military service, they eagerly proved their worth on the battlefield, being just as effective as males on the battlefield.

American CIA precursor OSS dropped many Secret Operation groups, many of those dropped were females, who along with men sought to arm local anti-nazi groups, sabotage and assassinate officials,and collect intelligence.

Information was collected by many female and male agents and partisans that saved the lives of thousands of men who landed at normandy.

Women like Nancy WakeShe commanded an entire Maquis battalion and was a very ruthless fighter, once killing a SS sentry with her bare hands.

Quote:

From April 1944 to the complete liberation of France, her 7000 maquisards fought 22,000 SS soldiers, causing 1400 casualties. Her French companions, especially Henri Tardivat, praised her fighting spirit; amply demonstrated when she killed an SS sentry with her bare hands to prevent him raising the alarm during a raid. During a 1990s television interview, when asked what had happened to the sentry who spotted her, Wake simply drew her finger across her throat. On another occasion, in order to replace codes her wireless operator had been forced to destroy in a German raid, Nancy Wake rode a bicycle for more than 100 miles through several German checkpoints.





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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9344099 - 12/01/08 01:31 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Niteowl: Wearing a heavy backpack and ridiculous armor and uniforms doesnt make a good soldier, the best camoflage is the clothing of a regular person, who can dissapear into the crowd. A simple backpack is all thats needed.




:whatever:

You have no idea what combat is like.
No idea at all.

Must be nice living in that fantasy world of yours.
Can I come over and play with you?




Warfare is changing very rapidly. Most attackers that the world faces look like everyone else, they use the countries laws against the country. Those terrorists in mumbai had nothing but second hand clothes and a walmart backpacks filled with grenades and ammunition. Badges? We dont need no stinkin' badges...

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9344142 - 12/01/08 01:38 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

What about Tanya Adams?  :hehehe:

Tanya Adams
Tanya Adams is a special ops commando. She is played by Lynne Litteer in Red Alert.

Tanya Adams was a civilian who volunteered for service in the Allied forces. She proved to be an extremely capable field operative, eventually becoming one of the Allies' most important assets, receiving orders directly from Gunther von Esling, the Allied commander.

During the Great World War one of her first assignments was rescuing the kidnapped Professor Einstein from a heavily defended Soviet research facility. After an air insertion, Tanya and the soldiers supporting her managed to infiltrate the facility and rescue the doctor.

Following Soviet successes on the front, she was assigned to cripple Soviet movements by destroying key bridges.

However, when she was gaining intelligence on Soviet operations behind enemy lines, she was captured by the NKVD forces and subsequently subjected to torture by a KGB officer. When the Allies learned of this, a spy was dispatched to locate and free her. He was successful, breaking into the interrogation room seconds before the officer could poison Tanya, but he was mortally wounded by the interrogator. Tanya used the moment of confusion to her advantage, knocking the interrogator down, and with the pistol the dying spy threw her, shot him several times at close range. She proceeded to shoot her way out and rendezvous with an exfiltration chopper after destroying six SAM sites.

When Greece fell, Tanya was responsible for safeguarding the evacuation of the Allied second-in-command, general Nikos Stavros. Tanya would later participate in two additional missions under the direct supervision of the Allied commander: one in which she infiltrated a Soviet nuclear missile silo control complex and helped deactivate nuclear missiles before they could reach European cities, and another where she spearheaded the assault on Moscow.

In the Soviet Campaign, Tanya appeared in one mission. She and a group of commandos attacked a nuclear reactor and attempted to force it to meltdown. Later in the mission, she was killed when the control room's flame-tower defenses were brought online by the player, thus allowing the player's engineers to move in and prevent the meltdown.

During the game Tanya appears on the battlefield as a female commando capable of taking down entire groups of enemy infantry and instantly destroying any building at point blank range. However, she only attacks when ordered to and does not defend herself from enemy troops unless fired upon first. In multiplayer games, both the Allies and Soviets can train an unlimited number of Tanya units. Her appearance on the map is marked by a loud snickering laugh heard by all players.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9344159 - 12/01/08 01:41 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Warfare is changing very rapidly. Most attackers that the world faces look like everyone else, they use the countries laws against the country. Those terrorists in mumbai had nothing but second hand clothes and a walmart backpacks filled with grenades and ammunition. Badges? We dont need no stinkin' badges...




I guess you have never heard of the Geneva Convention.
American soldiers are not terrorists.
They have to be in unifoirm during combat.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Cowgold]
    #9344160 - 12/01/08 01:41 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Hell yea Tanya was awesome, LETS ROCK, CHAA CHIING. Ill C4 your War Factory bitch.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9344177 - 12/01/08 01:44 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Warfare is changing very rapidly. Most attackers that the world faces look like everyone else, they use the countries laws against the country. Those terrorists in mumbai had nothing but second hand clothes and a walmart backpacks filled with grenades and ammunition. Badges? We dont need no stinkin' badges...




I guess you have never heard of the Geneva Convention.
American soldiers are not terrorists.
They have to be in unifoirm during combat.




You're misunderstanding me, I said the world is facing a adapting enemy who uses the weaknesses of the nations and their rules against him. We dont know how to fight an enemy like that, so we must adapt.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: filthee]
    #9344306 - 12/01/08 02:04 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

filthee said:
id rather be raped,then beaten then shot but i aint a lucky woman




Really?  Because I'd rather be beaten and shot than butt raped.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9344389 - 12/01/08 02:16 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

i was being tenacious

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9344679 - 12/01/08 02:56 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Warfare is changing very rapidly. Most attackers that the world faces look like everyone else, they use the countries laws against the country. Those terrorists in mumbai had nothing but second hand clothes and a walmart backpacks filled with grenades and ammunition. Badges? We dont need no stinkin' badges...




I guess you have never heard of the Geneva Convention.
American soldiers are not terrorists.
They have to be in unifoirm during combat.




I guess you never heard of how a battalion of Army Special Forces soldiers rode donkeys in Afghanistan, dressed in native garb, and created an insurgency that overthrew the taliban.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9344777 - 12/01/08 03:09 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

yeah the rules are never followed.

thats the one thing you need to learn about war and armies if you are ignorant of them.

when i served for a year in an army of the EU i saw firsthand why women should not be in the army. 

#1  they are not the same as men.
#2  men get distracted by them
#3  they lack physical strength
#4  Emotions cloud their thoughts and actions
#5  females should only be with females in special female
    platoons if they wanna fight/work so bad.
#6  their tits hang and cause pain when diving to the
    dirt.
#7  The bloody axe wounds they have will attract carniverous wild animals to the campsite causing unecesary drama.
#8  The woman will twist the minds of the men ensuring her survival.

i could go on forever


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9344784 - 12/01/08 03:10 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Well i completely agree that women make better piolots than men.
They have a better multitasking ability.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9344871 - 12/01/08 03:20 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Warfare is changing very rapidly. Most attackers that the world faces look like everyone else, they use the countries laws against the country. Those terrorists in mumbai had nothing but second hand clothes and a walmart backpacks filled with grenades and ammunition. Badges? We dont need no stinkin' badges...




I guess you have never heard of the Geneva Convention.
American soldiers are not terrorists.
They have to be in unifoirm during combat.




I guess you never heard of how a battalion of Army Special Forces soldiers rode donkeys in Afghanistan, dressed in native garb, and created an insurgency that overthrew the taliban.





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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: filthee]
    #9344885 - 12/01/08 03:21 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

i love that movie!!!!!


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: pong]
    #9344895 - 12/01/08 03:23 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

more like.....





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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: pong]
    #9344912 - 12/01/08 03:25 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

most peaople do
Won 7 Oscars. Another 18 wins & 12 nominations:tongue:

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: pong]
    #9344919 - 12/01/08 03:26 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

pong said:
#7  The bloody axe wounds they have will attract carniverous wild animals to the campsite causing unecesary drama.



End of discussion :rofl2:


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9344925 - 12/01/08 03:27 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

blewmeanie said:
more like.....








ZZtop kicks so much ass. :strokebeard:

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Cowgold]
    #9344981 - 12/01/08 03:36 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

:lol:

Hell yeah


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9345170 - 12/01/08 04:08 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Warfare is changing very rapidly. Most attackers that the world faces look like everyone else, they use the countries laws against the country. Those terrorists in mumbai had nothing but second hand clothes and a walmart backpacks filled with grenades and ammunition. Badges? We dont need no stinkin' badges...




I guess you have never heard of the Geneva Convention.
American soldiers are not terrorists.
They have to be in unifoirm during combat.




I guess you never heard of how a battalion of Army Special Forces soldiers rode donkeys in Afghanistan, dressed in native garb, and created an insurgency that overthrew the taliban.




Yea I heard about that, I've heard about the Human Terrain project too, some of them are good idea's, some like Human Terrain project not so good.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9345175 - 12/01/08 04:09 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

you ever heard that if there was a woman in my troop id definitely fux her if she got wounded.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: anyone420]
    #9345965 - 12/01/08 05:59 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

anyone420 said:
Quote:

niteowl said:
:whatever:

Brute strength is a MUST for combat.




what kinda combat are we talking here? 

firearms don't require much strength

neither do tanks and planes and missiles

if were talking hand to hand combat, anyone who knows anything about fighting will tell you strength is important, but technique will always overcome size

i think athletic ability is more important than strength




I spent my time in the marine corps.
every Friday we did a minimum of 15 miles carrying a full combat load.
Now if women pass the same requirements, all power to them.
But how many women can or are willing to go 15+ miles over mountainous
terrain carrying an 80 lb pack, full body armor, a weapon, and 200+ rounds of ammunition?


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9345974 - 12/01/08 06:01 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
I guess you never heard of how a battalion of Army Special Forces soldiers rode donkeys in Afghanistan, dressed in native garb, and created an insurgency that overthrew the taliban.




There is no way a woman could pass the physical requirments to be in special forces.

Quote:

pong said:
when i served for a year in an army of the EU i saw firsthand why women should not be in the army. 

#1  they are not the same as men.
#2  men get distracted by them
#3  they lack physical strength
#4  Emotions cloud their thoughts and actions
#5  females should only be with females in special female
    platoons if they wanna fight/work so bad.
#6  their tits hang and cause pain when diving to the
    dirt.
#7  The bloody axe wounds they have will attract carniverous wild animals to the campsite causing unecesary drama.
#8  The woman will twist the minds of the men ensuring her survival.

i could go on forever




These are primary reasons why women
should not be in combat situations with men.
Female only units wold work much better.

Quote:

yasi said:
Well i completely agree that women make better piolots than men.
They have a better multitasking ability.




A pilot is not a front line combat soldier.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: yasi]
    #9345994 - 12/01/08 06:04 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Haven't met one who could in five years, but I did meet several women in airborne school that complained about having to do a pull-up.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: yasi]
    #9346017 - 12/01/08 06:07 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Women have no place on the battlefield. I think they should be aloud to enlist in the military though, for cooking, cleaning, and sex only.


--------------------
"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley
:drooling:GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH:drooling:

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: aDoS]
    #9346044 - 12/01/08 06:10 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

aDoS said:
I think they should be aloud to enlist in the military though, for cooking, cleaning, and sex only.




Ramblings of a typical christian

:whatever:


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9346046 - 12/01/08 06:11 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I never thought my sociology project would get such a turnout!


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9346050 - 12/01/08 06:12 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

There is no way a woman could pass the physical requirments to be in special forces.




Not entirely true, read up on Kathleen Wilder.  She was given a certificate of completion and a green hat in the '80s, mostly for political bullshit.

But that wasn't my point. My point was that asymmetrical warfare is becoming increasingly important in areas of conflict and not everyone is running around in uniform.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9346193 - 12/01/08 06:30 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

im a black beret motherfuckers, and wwomenz could never run a tank.  too much heavy metal brah.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: pong]
    #9346210 - 12/01/08 06:33 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

As far as I'm concerned only women want to fight from big metal boxes anyway. :evil:


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9346222 - 12/01/08 06:34 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

haha, tanks are fun dude. 

although im glad i was a jeep scout/gunner  cus tanks are fucking rolling coffins.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: pong]
    #9346240 - 12/01/08 06:36 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

:werd: I'll take a HMMWV over anything else in the inventory, but I'd still rather be on foot.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9346480 - 12/01/08 07:07 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I said no for a few reasons...

#1
Quote:

Women are more likely to have been treated for a mental health problem than men (29% compared to 17%).


http://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/information/mental-health-overview/statistics/

Woman on the front line could cause an assload of problems if they get pms, ptsd, raped, even prego! I know not every woman is going to crack when she shoots someone for the first time. . .

#2 woman can't already be on the front line combat units( in the trenches), in submarines or navy seals...

I know our military is fucked up but there is a reason for putting certain people in certain places... The south used black people as their front line because they saw them as lower value to society and yet when they use only men on the front, woman see this as the military thinking they have a lower value because they are "as strong" or are like the inferior gender or something. I don't understand why it is that no one thinks that our society values woman more because they don't put them on the front. Why does it have to be a bad thing?

There are more reasons but that's my top 2...


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Lndrydusting]
    #9346528 - 12/01/08 07:15 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I don't understand why it is that no one thinks that our society values woman more because they don't put them on the front. Why does it have to be a bad thing?




Because hard-core feminists want me to be ashamed of my penis and of any circumstance where I'm better suited for a task than "womyn." :shrug:

I don't value them more or less. There are just certain points where women become a liability instead of an asset.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9346589 - 12/01/08 07:24 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
Quote:

There is no way a woman could pass the physical requirments to be in special forces.




But that wasn't my point. My point was that asymmetrical warfare is becoming increasingly important in areas of conflict and not everyone is running around in uniform.





Agreed 100%.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9346609 - 12/01/08 07:27 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Quote:

Crasher said:
Quote:

There is no way a woman could pass the physical requirments to be in special forces.




But that wasn't my point. My point was that asymmetrical warfare is becoming increasingly important in areas of conflict and not everyone is running around in uniform.





Agreed 100%.




Not to stroke your ego, but you've got an amazing understanding of unconventional warfare and conflicts. Just a passionate area of study or what?


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9346628 - 12/01/08 07:30 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Quote:

Crasher said:
Quote:

There is no way a woman could pass the physical requirments to be in special forces.




But that wasn't my point. My point was that asymmetrical warfare is becoming increasingly important in areas of conflict and not everyone is running around in uniform.





Agreed 100%.




Not to stroke your ego, but you've got an amazing understanding of unconventional warfare and conflicts. Just a passionate area of study or what?




Yea definitely, my interest started when i was 6 years old reading civil war books and looking at the maps with diagrams of troop movements and lines of communication. I just read a lot and keep up with the news and im open to a lot of theories. I read a lot of William Lind and John Robb.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9346685 - 12/01/08 07:36 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Quote:

Crasher said:
Quote:

There is no way a woman could pass the physical requirments to be in special forces.




But that wasn't my point. My point was that asymmetrical warfare is becoming increasingly important in areas of conflict and not everyone is running around in uniform.





Agreed 100%.




Not to stroke your ego, but you've got an amazing understanding of unconventional warfare and conflicts. Just a passionate area of study or what?




You as well know your shit friend, its good to talk to folks who share a common interest :smile:

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9346714 - 12/01/08 07:40 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

This is the last place I expected to find anyone aware of 4GW or "asym" tactics. I'm still surprised by the range of personalities this place draws.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9346805 - 12/01/08 07:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
This is the last place I expected to find anyone aware of 4GW or "asym" tactics. I'm still surprised by the range of personalities this place draws.





Yea its very true, do you keep up with the theories? I hope the all the armed forces start accepting these theories and stop spending billions on expensive toys.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9346825 - 12/01/08 07:53 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
Quote:

I don't understand why it is that no one thinks that our society values woman more because they don't put them on the front. Why does it have to be a bad thing?




Because hard-core feminists want me to be ashamed of my penis and of any circumstance where I'm better suited for a task than "womyn." :shrug:

I don't value them more or less. There are just certain points where women become a liability instead of an asset.




See thats why I would never be a femenist... If you are more qualified for a certain position  and it was up against you and a woman, you should get the job because you are more qualified! The whole equal opportunity shit has its merrits but it was founded because of racism not because someone else can do it better!

I don't believe woman should do something because they think they can and because they believe they are just as strong but if they were actually more qualified to do it then someone else and were just as strong as the other candidates then maybe... But the fact is that some woman (mostly femenist) who believe they can be just as strong and should be allowed to have that opportunity aren't as strong as they believe and can't back it up! If given the opportunity and fail. Then what? Then they say that other woman are stronger and continue the endless fight rather than to succum to the fact that maybe they all can't do it.

When people suggest equal training they argue its unfair because of the body differences and thats partially true because any dumbass who lifts weights instead of a book can pass a certain physical vs some woman but if it were a test of bootcamp and tactical training then maybe it would eliminate the guys who are physical but dumbasses and yet put only the woman who could hack both into the front lines of the military!

The only problem with equal everything is it elimantes more people that the military and our country wants. It eliminates more people than we need (not just in forgien wars but in the basic military). This isn't an arguement to not put woman in the military but just to pass those who are more qualified into a more elite devision be it the navy seals, or the front lines (I stick by the no woman on submarines... I've know too many of those guys to know it wouldn't work).


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9346932 - 12/01/08 08:04 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Quote:

Crasher said:
This is the last place I expected to find anyone aware of 4GW or "asym" tactics. I'm still surprised by the range of personalities this place draws.





Yea its very true, do you keep up with the theories? I hope the all the armed forces start accepting these theories and stop spending billions on expensive toys.




If you've noticed the myriad of hints I've dropped about my career, you'd know that unconventional/asymmetrical theory and practice are our namesake.

Unfortunately, the political landscape has changed tremendously since OEF. What was considered the redeeming proof that SF was a viable force in the 21st century has already been forgotten in Iraq. The best minds in the business of 4GW have been shut up so Petraeus could literally right the book on counter-insurgency.

After that, we've been reduced to becoming like other SOF forces, all kicking in doors, all playing policeman. At a time when these theories in 4GW and aysmm warfare should be  studied by every cadet, enlisted and officer type in the force, we get an FM with a sophomoric understanding. Then we get the surge.

I'm glad I'm getting out.


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Edited by Crasher (12/01/08 08:05 PM)

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: yasi]
    #9347016 - 12/01/08 08:12 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Another thing. I've seen rape thrown around this thread like butter cookies at a fat chick...

Does anyone have any statistical evidence that rape is more prevalent in military society than civilian society?

Make no mistake, the culture and sociology of either are vastly different.


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Edited by Crasher (12/01/08 08:13 PM)

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9347089 - 12/01/08 08:23 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Quote:

Crasher said:
This is the last place I expected to find anyone aware of 4GW or "asym" tactics. I'm still surprised by the range of personalities this place draws.





Yea its very true, do you keep up with the theories? I hope the all the armed forces start accepting these theories and stop spending billions on expensive toys.




If you've noticed the myriad of hints I've dropped about my career, you'd know that unconventional/asymmetrical theory and practice are our namesake.

Unfortunately, the political landscape has changed tremendously since OEF. What was considered the redeeming proof that SF was a viable force in the 21st century has already been forgotten in Iraq. The best minds in the business of 4GW have been shut up so Petraeus could literally right the book on counter-insurgency.

After that, we've been reduced to becoming like other SOF forces, all kicking in doors, all playing policeman. At a time when these theories in 4GW and aysmm warfare should be  studied by every cadet, enlisted and officer type in the force, we get an FM with a sophomoric understanding. Then we get the surge.

I'm glad I'm getting out.




Seems like Petrauses tactic is just simple oil stain counter insurgency, secure and cordon off cities, problem with this is it involves like you said playing police man and alienating civilians. A lot of simple things add to the insurgency,putting dogs in houses their culture thinks dogs are disgusting creatures, its disrespectful to them.

Now it looks to me though the nationalist sunni insurgency now sons of anbar, awakening council, "concerned local citizens" is under US payroll and now the iraqi government is going to pay them, Maliki already stated he wont accept them into the political process. Could be problems there

The surge is just a giant PR stunt, anytime a conventional belligerent masses firepower against a guerrilla enemy, he just simply disperses into the population. The true credit goes to CLC's they knew their neighborhoods and they knew where Al Qaeda was and they rooted em out viciously, Al Qaeda attacked 1920 revolution brigades, Jaish Islami, and they turned on Al Qaeda's Islamic State and went to the US, they dont want to excluded politically from southern oil wealth. The ball is in the Iraqi governments court. I think the US has expended all military solutions there, I dont think we'll see peace there, not with radicals like Sadr, when Sistani dies the shit will hit the fan mark my words.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9347174 - 12/01/08 08:33 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: pong]
    #9347225 - 12/01/08 08:40 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

pong said:
haha, tanks are fun dude. 

although im glad i was a jeep scout/gunner  cus tanks are fucking rolling coffins.




If you think a tank is a coffin, try rollin' around in an AAV.
Fucking Aluminum can on a set of tracks won't even stop a 7.62!


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9347304 - 12/01/08 08:49 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seems like Petrauses tactic is just simple oil stain counter insurgency, secure and cordon off cities, problem with this is it involves like you said playing police man and alienating civilians. A lot of simple things add to the insurgency,putting dogs in houses their culture thinks dogs are disgusting creatures, its disrespectful to them.




You're absolutely right. When you consider the psychology of conventional forces, I mean the individuals who score a 20 on the ASVAB and only have the infantry to run to, it seems idiotic to base a counter insurgency on their cognitive faculties.

Guys dipping bullets in pork fat on youtube, the Abu Ghraib incident, the mahmudiyah killings, it goes on. It doesn't matter how thick your manual is, you can't teach these guys to win the hearts and minds.

You need people who live steeped in the culture and language. Who offer swift and considerate decisions. But these guys can't be mass produced. This is why the initial grab and hold in Afghanistan was successful, and why we're stuck in two countries.

The politics of the conventional. 3rd gen warfare doesn't want to die. Officers have spent their careers pining away on hopes of activating cold war plans. Indirect fire and movement. Forward Edge of the Battle Area. All the pretty shit they went to war college for. Suddenly it's irrelevant, and a lot of old officers refuse to accept that.

But I digress.


Just watching the influence Sadr exerted on the government in our provinces was enough to make me realize we made a huge mistake involving the conventional forces.

but politically, they (big army) needed a success story after SOF/OGA's raised an army just on the other side of Iran.

:shrug: I suddenly need another drink.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9347309 - 12/01/08 08:49 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

blewmeanie said:
:popcorn:




C'mon, you can contribute more than that...


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9347336 - 12/01/08 08:52 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
Another thing. I've seen rape thrown around this thread like butter cookies at a fat chick...

Does anyone have any statistical evidence that rape is more prevalent in military society than civilian society?

Make no mistake, the culture and sociology of either are vastly different.




Rape in the military is like rape in prison... not always talked about but it exists more in small groups. If any group of people is limited they will take what they can get. Sex is a very natural need and people will do unspeakable things to fufill that.

Rape happens more in those who can't or wont prevent it or report it.

In the military its not reported by victims partially because its seems to them like  a sign of weakness and because your superiors (and others in the unit) know this person.

In native american reservations its often not reported because just the way any crime is prosecuted can be covered by 2 groups (the FBI and the police on the reservation) and sometimes its a power struggle to take the case and sometimes no one will touch it at all. On reservations the medical testing for rape kits either isnt available or can even cost the victim.

There are lots of reasons anyone doesn't report a rape. Just because it isn't reported doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

If you go on a boat or go over seas its a lot more prevalent to a small group mentality. Woman in the military isn't as scary as woman on a ship or woman overseas in a smaller group... Its a choice though.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9347355 - 12/01/08 08:55 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
Quote:

blewmeanie said:
:popcorn:




C'mon, you can contribute more than that...




I'm really enjoying reading this thread, it wasnt trying to give anyone shit.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9347445 - 12/01/08 09:06 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

blewmeanie said:
Quote:

Crasher said:
Quote:

blewmeanie said:
:popcorn:




C'mon, you can contribute more than that...




I'm really enjoying reading this thread, it wasnt trying to give anyone shit.




I know, but I value your opinion, and thought you might have more to add.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Lndrydusting]
    #9347461 - 12/01/08 09:08 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Lndrydusting said:
Quote:

Crasher said:
Another thing. I've seen rape thrown around this thread like butter cookies at a fat chick...

Does anyone have any statistical evidence that rape is more prevalent in military society than civilian society?

Make no mistake, the culture and sociology of either are vastly different.




Rape in the military is like rape in prison... not always talked about but it exists more in small groups. If any group of people is limited they will take what they can get. Sex is a very natural need and people will do unspeakable things to fufill that.

Rape happens more in those who can't or wont prevent it or report it.

In the military its not reported by victims partially because its seems to them like  a sign of weakness and because your superiors (and others in the unit) know this person.

In native american reservations its often not reported because just the way any crime is prosecuted can be covered by 2 groups (the FBI and the police on the reservation) and sometimes its a power struggle to take the case and sometimes no one will touch it at all. On reservations the medical testing for rape kits either isnt available or can even cost the victim.

There are lots of reasons anyone doesn't report a rape. Just because it isn't reported doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

If you go on a boat or go over seas its a lot more prevalent to a small group mentality. Woman in the military isn't as scary as woman on a ship or woman overseas in a smaller group... Its a choice though.




The same has happened in religious buildings, AA meetings, union jobs, etc.

All I'm asking for is proof that rape is higher in the military that out. The cases are trumpeted louder for some reason, but I really want to see figures.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9347537 - 12/01/08 09:18 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

i think she's right, though i don't have figures, throughout history there's been obvious evidence that rapes occur more in the military or during conflicts. i think it has to do with just general chaos and disorder more than anything else.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: SleepyF0x]
    #9347575 - 12/01/08 09:22 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

The problem with rape is the same on both sides: inadequate reporting. how can you be sure?

I've met more promiscuous females in the military than anywhere else in the world. I mean total sluts. I just find it hard to believe there are that many women getting raped when the vast majority are shady ho's.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9347630 - 12/01/08 09:28 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)


The politics of the conventional. 3rd gen warfare doesn't want to die. Officers have spent their careers pining away on hopes of activating cold war plans. Indirect fire and movement. Forward Edge of the Battle Area. All the pretty shit they went to war college for. Suddenly it's irrelevant, and a lot of old officers refuse to accept that.


Absolutely, millions of dollars are spent on devices, robots, mraps, jammers just to disarm a couple rusty artillery shells with a integrated circuit. millions are spent on a f-22, the only chance we could adequately use it is against someone we sold one too. dozens of f16's could be produced at the cost of one f22, a terrorist stealth bomber, is a car, just like any other car with a bomb in the trunk.

Just watching the influence Sadr exerted on the government in our provinces was enough to make me realize we made a huge mistake involving the conventional forces.

I think we've seen a evolution in his tactics, remember in 2004 with his mob attacks, holed up in that mosque his forces were slaughtered by the hundreds. He's now taking the hezbollah model, small autonomous groups making mischeif and a ceasefire also trying to gain legitimacy with his flock. the folks with the shaped charges, and the folks launching rockets and mortars in the green zone (usually) The problem is he's got hospitals, schools, his own quasi state, radio, television. Is this Lebanon in 91?

Guys dipping bullets in pork fat on youtube, the Abu Ghraib incident, the mahmudiyah killings, it goes on. It doesn't matter how thick your manual is, you can't teach these guys to win the hearts and minds.


Its impossible to filter out bad apples, with 24/7 media the smallest molehill is blown out of proportion, media can be manipulated into a way where even if the enemy is losing he's winning.

You need people who live steeped in the culture and language. Who offer swift and considerate decisions. But these guys can't be mass produced. This is why the initial grab and hold in Afghanistan was successful, and why we're stuck in two countries

And then ISAF came in and started doing airstrikes killing civilians, ineffective airstrikes blew our chances of a easy afghanistan victory. I heard of a moderate anti-taliban anti-coaltion group form recently in afghanistan, if theirs any person to add legitmacy to Afghanistan, its them. I dont expect Karzai holding much legitimacy with the afghan people, especially the pashtun.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9347678 - 12/01/08 09:33 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
Quote:

blewmeanie said:
Quote:

Crasher said:
Quote:

blewmeanie said:
:popcorn:




C'mon, you can contribute more than that...




I'm really enjoying reading this thread, it wasnt trying to give anyone shit.




I know, but I value your opinion, and thought you might have more to add.




Hmmmmm something feels a bit british about that :lol:

It'll be interesting to see what happens with congress pushing for an independent UW command apart from socom. Any change in the current command structure is going to be taking food off of allot of peoples plates.

Something definitely needs to be done though, we've got to many......"less than educated" door kickers running around exacerbating an already enormous cultural divide. Wars are no longer about conquering new territory, and treating them as such is going nowhere fast.

There are allot of rumors bouncing about, and its a bit scary to imagine what the upcoming dem. congress is going to do with the DoD budget. The last thing we need is another neutered toy army like we had under Clinton.

This is a time for independent thinkers and problem solvers, not an aggressive international police force. Cultural appreciation is highly underrated IMO.

I guess we'll see what will happens.......
:popcorn:


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: SleepyF0x]
    #9347693 - 12/01/08 09:35 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KrishnaDreamer said:
i think she's right, though i don't have figures, throughout history there's been obvious evidence that rapes occur more in the military or during conflicts. i think it has to do with just general chaos and disorder more than anything else.




Lets leave the marines out of this OK.

:lol:


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9347721 - 12/01/08 09:39 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

As the great Bill Hicks once said when asked about gays in the military & if they should be allowed in....

"ANYONE................DUMB ENOUGH.......to want to join the military.....Should be allowed in." -Bill Hicks - RIP


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9347746 - 12/01/08 09:42 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Absolutely, millions of dollars are spent on devices, robots, mraps, jammers just to disarm a couple rusty artillery shells with a integrated circuit. millions are spent on a f-22, the only chance we could adequately use it is against someone we sold one too. dozens of f16's could be produced at the cost of one f22, a terrorist stealth bomber, is a car, just like any other car with a bomb in the trunk.




And the truth is jammers (among the others) don't work. I still have a chunk of copper embedded in my humerus after an EFP array detonated alongside my truck with jammers on. There will always be a way to defeat our latest tech, and a way for us to defeat their countermeasures, ad infinitum. 

Quote:

I think we've seen a evolution in his tactics, remember in 2004 with his mob attacks, holed up in that mosque his forces were slaughtered by the hundreds. He's now taking the hezbollah model, small autonomous groups making mischeif and a ceasefire also trying to gain legitimacy with his flock. the folks with the shaped charges, and the folks launching rockets and mortars in the green zone (usually) The problem is he's got hospitals, schools, his own quasi state, radio, television. Is this Lebanon in 91?




It doesn't help when you know where he is but you're not allowed to touch him. He moves with impunity through the country, it would be infuriating if it wasn't so tragically funny.

I'm very familiar with the EFP's and  katyushas, from Baghdad on south to Najaf. Luckily the ceasefire allowed actual progress in several areas, although I'd rather just see his head on a pike. :shrug:

Quote:

Its impossible to filter out bad apples, with 24/7 media the smallest molehill is blown out of proportion, media can be manipulated into a way where even if the enemy is losing he's winning.




Very true. It often felt as though the media had no desire for a coalition success.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: SSM_Arts]
    #9347757 - 12/01/08 09:43 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SSM_Arts said:
As the great Bill Hicks once said when asked about gays in the military & if they should be allowed in....

"ANYONE................DUMB ENOUGH.......to want to join the military.....Should be allowed in." -Bill Hicks - RIP




There's nothing better than having someone else speak for you. You belong in the Marines!


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9347795 - 12/01/08 09:47 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Hmmmmm something feels a bit british about that :lol:

It'll be interesting to see what happens with congress pushing for an independent UW command apart from socom. Any change in the current command structure is going to be taking food off of allot of peoples plates.

Something definitely needs to be done though, we've got to many......"less than educated" door kickers running around exacerbating an already enormous cultural divide. Wars are no longer about conquering new territory, and treating them as such is going nowhere fast.

There are allot of rumors bouncing about, and its a bit scary to imagine what the upcoming dem. congress is going to do with the DoD budget. The last thing we need is another neutered toy army like we had under Clinton.

This is a time for independent thinkers and problem solvers, not an aggressive international police force. Cultural appreciation is highly underrated IMO.

I guess we'll see what will happens.......
:popcorn:




Between that and the continued discussion with the Capstone Concept for JSO, UW may suffer a fatal blow at a time when it's needed most.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9347801 - 12/01/08 09:48 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Lets leave the marines out of this OK.




rofl. that was bad.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: SleepyF0x]
    #9347824 - 12/01/08 09:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KrishnaDreamer said:
Quote:

Lets leave the marines out of this OK.




rofl. that was bad.




They're the reason they want us out of Japan. :shrug:


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9347827 - 12/01/08 09:52 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
Quote:

Absolutely, millions of dollars are spent on devices, robots, mraps, jammers just to disarm a couple rusty artillery shells with a integrated circuit. millions are spent on a f-22, the only chance we could adequately use it is against someone we sold one too. dozens of f16's could be produced at the cost of one f22, a terrorist stealth bomber, is a car, just like any other car with a bomb in the trunk.




Its an evolution, where each group is sharing ideas globally, Ieds became popular in Chechnya, they show up in Iraq, Afghanistan. With some degree of success each design becomes more complex, pressure springs, motion sensors. Most equipment is also relatively cheap. It wasnt a surprise that IED's have also popped up around Colombia, each innovative tactic employed is shared on the global scale, while military heirarchies are constricted by their own chains of command.

Quote:

It doesn't help when you know where he is but you're not allowed to touch him. He moves with impunity through the country, it would be infuriating if it wasn't so tragically funny.

I'm very familiar with the EFP's and  katyushas, from Baghdad on south to Najaf. Luckily the ceasefire allowed actual progress in several areas, although I'd rather just see his head on a pike.




His enemies should be given the opportunity, if we had his blood on our hands we would make him a martyr like his father, if it was another shiite, thats a different story. Either way he needs to seriously be mitigated, Did you recall any hezbollah activity with the Mehdi army? I'd imagine them and Qud's forces are probably laying low.

Quote:

Very true. It often felt as though the media had no desire for a coalition success.




Their loyalty is ratings and entertainment unfortunately. If this was WWII their would be a lot of reporters in jail.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9347993 - 12/01/08 10:12 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
Quote:

Hmmmmm something feels a bit british about that :lol:

It'll be interesting to see what happens with congress pushing for an independent UW command apart from socom. Any change in the current command structure is going to be taking food off of allot of peoples plates.

Something definitely needs to be done though, we've got to many......"less than educated" door kickers running around exacerbating an already enormous cultural divide. Wars are no longer about conquering new territory, and treating them as such is going nowhere fast.

There are allot of rumors bouncing about, and its a bit scary to imagine what the upcoming dem. congress is going to do with the DoD budget. The last thing we need is another neutered toy army like we had under Clinton.

This is a time for independent thinkers and problem solvers, not an aggressive international police force. Cultural appreciation is highly underrated IMO.

I guess we'll see what will happens.......
:popcorn:




Between that and the continued discussion with the Capstone Concept for JSO, UW may suffer a fatal blow at a time when it's needed most.




On one hand it seem like a step in the right direction, but ultimately they're just kicking their base out from under them in doing so. Transforming SF from liberators into preventative maintenance is a absurd concept IMO...maybe I'm missing something.

Its almost enought to make one believe in conspiracy theorys.....almost





Let your community be small, with only a few people;
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Sail boats and ride horses, but don't go too far;
Keep weapons and armour, but do not employ them;
Let everyone read and write,
Eat well and make beautiful things.

Live peacefully and delight in your own society;
Dwell within cock-crow of your neighbors,
But maintain your independence from them.



.......sigh


EDIT:

Oh and crasher, what was your secondary language?


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9348095 - 12/01/08 10:26 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

:strokebeard: PM'ed.

Posting Lao Tzu here seems like blasphemy.

SF is toast. New batallions, JSO taskings, MARSOC stealing JCET's. over half the old timers jumping ships.

They dumped the star from selection and cut the timeframe by 2/3rds. everything is falling apart.

The 4 truths aren't being adhered to.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9348359 - 12/01/08 11:08 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I am not a sexist.  I believe that women should be allowed into most military roles.  They should be able to command troops, fly planes, fix things, etc..

But, can the average woman perform in a combat infantry role?  Fuck no.  I am a skinny little guy and I easily have twice the upper body strength that even bulky bigger women have.  If my 200 pound buddy gets shot and I have to carry him to safety then I'll be able to do it.  It will be hard as hell and I will be huffing and puffing, but I'll be able to do it.  A woman won't be able to....period.  They have absolutely no upper body strength and this is a serious disadvantage in a combat situation.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Brasco]
    #9348858 - 12/02/08 12:53 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

While females aren't allowed to have a Combat Arms MOS, some do see combat while temporarily attached to other units.

For instance, this girl was recently awarded a Silver Star for her actions during an ambush in Afghanistan.

I don't feel that it is a civilian's place to say whether or not women should be allowed in combat permanently, considering their limited experience.  I guess the IDF allows it, though I don't know how effective it is.

@Crasher and UW guys:
I recently read a book by Dick Couch (former Seal) called "Chosen Soldier" that details the SF selection and training. In it, he praises the SF for offering what our military needs in today's war (i.e.: unconventional tactics, ability to interact with natives, etc.). I don't have the exact quote, but he claims (this was written a few years ago) that the Army SF is even more important than the Seals or other SOF members.  Shame if it has fallen off, as Crasher described.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: skydog]
    #9348900 - 12/02/08 01:03 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


I don't feel that it is a civilian's place to say whether or not women should be allowed in combat permanently, considering their limited experience.



:thumbup:

Quote:

that the Army SF is even more important than the Seals or other SOF members.  Shame if it has fallen off




It is just getting watered down in mediocrity. I hope it'll survive Obama.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9352332 - 12/02/08 04:54 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Statistics will not tell you anything either way... All statistics are biast because they can't get everyone and you can't control the way people are asked the questions (even surveys on paper can be suggestively worded)... The number of rapes reported (in the military or not) are the only thing you can actually base anything on... Most statistics aren't based on the number of people living in a certain area vs how many are woman vs how many rapes were reported vs how many people recanted(if they recant the report true or not its discounted).... So many factors and  not enough solid evidence and yet even not enough evidence doesn't mean it didn't happen!


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: doom876]
    #9352335 - 12/02/08 04:55 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

OF COURSE they should. It's equal rights.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9352598 - 12/02/08 05:36 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I never thought this topic would become 180+ posts long!


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: yasi]
    #9359512 - 12/03/08 04:02 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

They should absolutely NOT be allowed to have ANY job in armed forces.

Hell if it was up to me I think woman would have a lot less rights, male things should be kept strictly male. I fucken hate seeing woman for example as a mechanic talking about cars and all. She could know wtf shes talking about but imo she has no place at all in that sorta field.

Woman Astronauts to, wtf is this shit. GTFO out of space and answer phones in an office.

I know I'm an asshole here but I find it a huge turnoff.


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There exists one lie that is the absolute worst. A lie that has successfully infiltrated many of the Western governments. This lie is Christianity, and it must be fought in every way, shape and form. Burn the churches and kill the priests. The abomination that is Christianity must be wiped from this Earth.





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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: hpi]
    #9359601 - 12/03/08 04:12 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Are you sure you're Canadian?


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9359903 - 12/03/08 04:42 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

blewmeanie said:
Are you sure you're Canadian?




I thought the same after I finished typing it up :P

I may have went a bit over but still, chicks should stay out of male "activities" .


--------------------
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There exists one lie that is the absolute worst. A lie that has successfully infiltrated many of the Western governments. This lie is Christianity, and it must be fought in every way, shape and form. Burn the churches and kill the priests. The abomination that is Christianity must be wiped from this Earth.





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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: hpi]
    #9359911 - 12/03/08 04:43 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

women have vaginas


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: aDoS]
    #9361808 - 12/03/08 09:06 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

:shocked:


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: hpi]
    #9361899 - 12/03/08 09:19 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hpi said:
Quote:

blewmeanie said:
Are you sure you're Canadian?




I thought the same after I finished typing it up :P

I may have went a bit over but still, chicks should stay out of male "activities" .



Who is to say what these "male" activities are. Outdated culteral traditions or animalistic lingering instinct, women, idiotic "macho" men, men over fifty? Who decides, come on? This is the 21st century, and I don't have respect for people who seriously think women should be barred from things or given privilage(selective service)
Anyone who thinks otherwise is a f-u-c-k-i-n-g moron.
Simple, no damn wiggle room. You earn your insult if you are a sexist fuck, and should be castrated and bared from children so we don't have more generations of gross ignorance. The same for racists, religious fundies, and homophobes. You get the idea. Fuck em all in the ass with a razor dildo untill their insides leak out :megacrankey:


--------------------

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: hpi]
    #9363573 - 12/04/08 03:03 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hpi said:
They should absolutely NOT be allowed to have ANY job in armed forces.

Hell if it was up to me I think woman would have a lot less rights, male things should be kept strictly male. I fucken hate seeing woman for example as a mechanic talking about cars and all. She could know wtf shes talking about but imo she has no place at all in that sorta field.

Woman Astronauts to, wtf is this shit. GTFO out of space and answer phones in an office.

I know I'm an asshole here but I find it a huge turnoff.



Im sorry, but you need to get hit in the head with a brick.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #9363580 - 12/04/08 03:07 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

some women are prolly pretty badass. but VERY few.

i would wanna be with some badass, numb, heartless, killers if i was in combat....girls are too emotional.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #9363806 - 12/04/08 05:35 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
Im sorry, but you need to get hit in the head with a brick.




LOL

true tho, jesus.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: hpi]
    #9364189 - 12/04/08 08:04 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Hell if it was up to me I think woman would have a lot less rights




What justification could you possibly have for this other than your blatant sexism?

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: circularvortex]
    #9364379 - 12/04/08 08:40 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I think a lot of the arguments being made in opposition to women in combat are pretty silly. I believe that as long as they pass the necessary testing and stuff, they should be able to serve along men.

Quote:

Women are physically weaker, naturally.



Maybe on average, but there are certainly many women much stronger than the average man. At the point where the military needs everyone they can get, why not let a few strong women in even though they may not be as strong as the strongest men?

And this mentality is really bad. How far does it go? Should women not be able to do physical jobs because they are weaker? How much should these "weak and fragile" women be kept safe? Is the only safe place in the kitchen?
Quote:


I thought women should be allowed in the service until I saw my ex trying to do pull ups one day for a physical to see if she would be allowed into the Air Force Academy.  She couldn't even do one pull up.  I wouldn't want to rely on that in a combat scenario.



Do you see how inadequate your logic is here? That would justify me saying "I thought blacks could serve until I saw one who was really weak, therefore they can't do it." Obviously a girl like that wouldn't be accepted.

As for all the arguments about how they would be a distraction, does this mean they shouldn't work in the corporate world either? Or any place with men? Once again this is the logic that justifies the suppression of women.

I find most of the arguments made to be genuinely patriarchal. When asked whether or not women should be able to serve, the gut reaction is a response detailing how it would affect men. We need to ask ourselves whether or not women, if physically able, should be able to serve their country alongside their male counterparts.

Quote:

I may have went a bit over but still, chicks should stay out of male "activities" .



This is hilarious. For centuries, "male activities" included everything, and the only female activities were cooking, cleaning, fucking, and looking over the kids. Hardly a rewarding existence. The binary you create is what is used to justify all forms of oppression- blacks don't deserve to do "white activities", and gays don't deserve to do "straight activities".

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: bhamlaxy]
    #9364428 - 12/04/08 08:53 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bhamlaxy said:
I think a lot of the arguments being made in opposition to women in combat are pretty silly. I believe that as long as they pass the necessary testing and stuff, they should be able to serve along men.




But they don't have to pass the same physical testing that men do. I already posted the PT test stats for the military in this thread.

Women don't have to be as strong as men do.

That may be OK for some jobs in the military, but it is NOT OK in a combat situation.

:sorry:


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9364571 - 12/04/08 09:34 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Thats because status quo policy dictates that women can't serve in combat positions. A deliberate shift in that policy would almost certainly be accompanied by a change in the testing standards, which are now formatted for the less physical non-combat positions. As an advocate for women in combat, I advocate equal testing standards as well.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: bhamlaxy]
    #9364776 - 12/04/08 10:31 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I advocate equal testing standards as well.




If that were to happen...most women
in the military now would not be able to pass
the required physical testing and would have to be let go.

fact...women are not as physically strong as men.

No way around that fact.

I have no issue with women
serving side by side with men
in some parts of the military.
Most Navy and Air Force jobs can be easily done by women.
Army and Marine combat units are no place for co-ed units.

If women want to serve in combat
then there should be a women only combat unit


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9364911 - 12/04/08 10:55 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

If that were to happen...most women
in the military now would not be able to pass
the required physical testing and would have to be let go.



They could keep their jobs because I'd assume non-combat jobs would keep the current testing standards, but if a woman wanted a combat position she would have to pass the same standards as men.

Quote:

fact...women are not as physically strong as men.

No way around that fact.



You need to be careful about the way you word that, because what you are stating there is most definitely not a fact.

The fact is that most women are not as physically strong as most men. The fact of the matter is that there are most definitely some women out there who are just as capable as any man, and want to serve their country in a combat position.

Quote:

If women want to serve in combat
then there should be a women only combat unit



That's a ridiculous assertion that smells like the "black only" units of past wars. I just don't see the logic behind this. Should women be separated in the workplace? Should there be a separate women police force? If there is a woman that is sufficiently capable of performing the duties required in a combat unit, what is the reason to not allow it?

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: bhamlaxy]
    #9365020 - 12/04/08 11:14 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bhamlaxy said:
Quote:

fact...women are not as physically strong as men.

No way around that fact.



You need to be careful about the way you word that, because what you are stating there is most definitely not a fact.

The fact is that most women are not as physically strong as most men. The fact of the matter is that there are most definitely some women out there who are just as capable as any man, and want to serve their country in a combat position.




Take the strongest man in the world and the strongest woman in the world.....

who is going to be the strongest?

Quote:

Quote:

If women want to serve in combat
then there should be a women only combat unit



That's a ridiculous assertion that smells like the "black only" units of past wars. I just don't see the logic behind this. Should women be separated in the workplace? Should there be a separate women police force? If there is a woman that is sufficiently capable of performing the duties required in a combat unit, what is the reason to not allow it?




There is a simple reason for not letting men and women serve in combat situations.

Pregnancy.

There is no way that men and women, serving together for long periods of time, in an isolated situation, won't want to hook up and have sex.

Pregnancy is a fact of sex, not everyone is going to take precautions to prevent a pregnancy.

Is having a pregnant woman serving in a combat situation is a good idea to you?

Edited by niteowl (12/04/08 11:16 AM)

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9365142 - 12/04/08 11:32 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Take the strongest man in the world and the strongest woman in the world.....

who is going to be the strongest?



Horrible comparison, and extremely flawed logic.

It's not the strongest man and the strongest woman joining the military, its individuals. So even if a woman were to be stronger than many of the men in a military unit, she shouldn't be able to join because the strongest man is stronger than the strongest woman? These things need to be evaluated on an individual level. Using that logic, a college wouldn't accept a black man if the worlds dumbest person was black, and a school wouldn't accept a male teacher because the most caring teacher in the world is a woman. Ridiculous.

Quote:

There is a simple reason for not letting men and women serve in combat situations.

Pregnancy.

There is no way that men and women, serving together for long periods of time, in an isolated situation, won't want to hook up and have sex.

Pregnancy is a fact of sex, not everyone is going to take precautions to prevent a pregnancy.




Well women already serve alongside men in non-combat positions. Are they fucking and all getting pregnant? The military is made up of 20% women, and there are certainly men and women in the engineering, medical and technological components of the military. Has pregnancy become a major problem there? No, because they understand it would jeopardize their employment and they live in different quarters. Unless all the women in these non-combat roles are getting knocked up left and right, your argument has nothing to stand on.

Quote:


Is having a pregnant woman serving in a combat situation is a good idea to you?



Are you kidding me? Again you use flawed logic to try and stick me with bad arguments. Obviously if a woman were to get pregnant, she would be removed from service, just like they do with every other form of employment, it's called maternity leave. Regardless, there wouldn't be some massive increase in pregnancy. We would have already seen this in the other forms of military service that are closely related to combat duties, without the actual combat.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: bhamlaxy]
    #9367696 - 12/04/08 06:41 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

What are the advantages of having women in combat roles?  I don't see how it is advantageous at all.  Appeasing feminists is not conducive to having a successful military.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: skydog]
    #9367747 - 12/04/08 06:49 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

skydog said:
What are the advantages of having women in combat roles?




None.

Quote:

Appeasing feminists is not conducive to having a successful military.




Agreed.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: skydog]
    #9367850 - 12/04/08 07:01 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Well women already serve alongside men in non-combat positions. Are they fucking and all getting pregnant?




Yes. So much so that the Department of the Army requires that married couples who get deployed have to stay on the same base to avoid cheating. There have been massive increases of overseas pregnancies, adultery, prostitution, and divorce because of these co-ed units.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #9369392 - 12/04/08 11:00 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
Quote:

hpi said:
They should absolutely NOT be allowed to have ANY job in armed forces.

Hell if it was up to me I think woman would have a lot less rights, male things should be kept strictly male. I fucken hate seeing woman for example as a mechanic talking about cars and all. She could know wtf shes talking about but imo she has no place at all in that sorta field.

Woman Astronauts to, wtf is this shit. GTFO out of space and answer phones in an office.

I know I'm an asshole here but I find it a huge turnoff.



Im sorry, but you need to get hit in the head with a brick.




Honestly, what an idiot. He even states himself that it has nothing to do with their ability, Its only because he dislikes the idea. What kind of an argument is that. What if you couldn't have your job just because you got a dick. I'm interested what exactly is it that you don't like about the concept? Why is it wrong in your opinion? I guarantee you that you don't have an answer that makes the slightest of logical sense, to anyone which is a good indicator that your opinion is wrong.


Quote:

skydog said:
What are the advantages of having women in combat roles?  I don't see how it is advantageous at all.  Appeasing feminists is not conducive to having a successful military.





Its an advantage because as of october 2007 there were 153.6 million women in the unites states which is about half the population. Not allowing half the population to fight in combat means less soldiers.  Im pretty sure having more soldiers is an advantage lol. :foreheadslap:


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: DeathCompany]
    #9369425 - 12/04/08 11:06 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DeathCompany said:
Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
Quote:

hpi said:
They should absolutely NOT be allowed to have ANY job in armed forces.

Hell if it was up to me I think woman would have a lot less rights, male things should be kept strictly male. I fucken hate seeing woman for example as a mechanic talking about cars and all. She could know wtf shes talking about but imo she has no place at all in that sorta field.

Woman Astronauts to, wtf is this shit. GTFO out of space and answer phones in an office.

I know I'm an asshole here but I find it a huge turnoff.



Im sorry, but you need to get hit in the head with a brick.




Honestly, what an idiot. He even states himself that it has nothing to do with their ability, Its only because he dislikes the idea. What kind of an argument is that. What if you couldn't have your job just because you got a dick. I'm interested what exactly is it that you don't like about the concept? Why is it wrong in your opinion? I guarantee you that you don't have an answer that makes the slightest of logical sense, to anyone which is a good indicator that your opinion is wrong.


Quote:

skydog said:
What are the advantages of having women in combat roles?  I don't see how it is advantageous at all.  Appeasing feminists is not conducive to having a successful military.





Its an advantage because as of october 2007 there were 153.6 million women in the unites states which is about half the population. Not allowing half the population to fight in combat means less soldiers.  Im pretty sure having more soldiers is an advantage lol. :foreheadslap:




The vast majority of women do not want to serve in a direct combat role.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: DeathCompany]
    #9369465 - 12/04/08 11:15 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Probably because our society portrays it as mans role. And obviously not every women will sign up due to age/mental/physical health and so on but I think you understand the concept.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: DeathCompany]
    #9370152 - 12/05/08 01:09 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: doom876]
    #9370471 - 12/05/08 03:24 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

doom876 said:
Quote:

hpi said:
Quote:

blewmeanie said:
Are you sure you're Canadian?




I thought the same after I finished typing it up :P

I may have went a bit over but still, chicks should stay out of male "activities" .



Who is to say what these "male" activities are. Outdated culteral traditions or animalistic lingering instinct, women, idiotic "macho" men, men over fifty? Who decides, come on? This is the 21st century, and I don't have respect for people who seriously think women should be barred from things or given privilage(selective service)
Anyone who thinks otherwise is a f-u-c-k-i-n-g moron.
Simple, no damn wiggle room. You earn your insult if you are a sexist fuck, and should be castrated and bared from children so we don't have more generations of gross ignorance. The same for racists, religious fundies, and homophobes. You get the idea. Fuck em all in the ass with a razor dildo untill their insides leak out :megacrankey:





you are so open minded you may have actually become close minded.

ok well when men and women work in my families greenhouse they naturally assume different roles.  As the wheelbarrow movees down the picking line and the vegetables get tossed in it is pretty easy to see who the most efficient gender would be for each role. 

assuming a 50/50 ratio of gender and of labor roles picking/carrying we can safely say that carrying will be mostly males save a few freak females, and vice versa.

gender roles do exist.

your disconnection with the actual workings of the world make you forget this.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: pong]
    #9375169 - 12/05/08 07:41 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

If woman are to be allowed to serve in combat units they should have to pass certain tests.... This way the ones who could pass can do it and then we can say woman are allowed in combat situations. This wouldn't mean all woman are but a select few that could stand up to the battle situation.


As it stands woman aren't allowed in front line situations but in Iraq and such front lines don't always start out as such. Say you're a woman driving a convoy and then its attacked... technically you are now out on the front lines! So yey congradulations woman you can now be in combate situations!


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: pong]
    #9375290 - 12/05/08 08:03 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

skydog said:
What are the advantages of having women in combat roles?




More troops in combat fighting with our over-streached military. More guns firing from us.

Quote:

Appeasing feminists is not conducive to having a successful military.




Yes, but it isn't harmful, and is a step toward a more progessive country rather then a country of conservative, sexist fools.




Quote:

pong said:
Quote:

doom876 said:
Quote:

hpi said:
Quote:

blewmeanie said:
Are you sure you're Canadian?




I thought the same after I finished typing it up :P

I may have went a bit over but still, chicks should stay out of male "activities" .



Who is to say what these "male" activities are. Outdated culteral traditions or animalistic lingering instinct, women, idiotic "macho" men, men over fifty? Who decides, come on? This is the 21st century, and I don't have respect for people who seriously think women should be barred from things or given privilage(selective service)
Anyone who thinks otherwise is a f-u-c-k-i-n-g moron.
Simple, no damn wiggle room. You earn your insult if you are a sexist fuck, and should be castrated and bared from children so we don't have more generations of gross ignorance. The same for racists, religious fundies, and homophobes. You get the idea. Fuck em all in the ass with a razor dildo untill their insides leak out :megacrankey:





you are so open minded you may have actually become close minded.

ok well when men and women work in my families greenhouse they naturally assume different roles.  As the wheelbarrow movees down the picking line and the vegetables get tossed in it is pretty easy to see who the most efficient gender would be for each role. 

assuming a 50/50 ratio of gender and of labor roles picking/carrying we can safely say that carrying will be mostly males save a few freak females, and vice versa.

gender roles do exist.

your disconnection with the actual workings of the world make you forget this.



Nope, just closed minded. Your greenhouse and family are not a model for a secular government that has to take. We should learn to move beyond our idiotic traditions. I am not saying you throw a woman who is weak and incompitant in there just to do so. Women are weaker on average, but not everyone is superman in the army. If you have the skills, as many women and men do, then you should be allowed to fight/become a cold blooded killer of the state. On average women are physicly weaker, but some kick ass, and some have the will to overcome that weakness if they have it, and some have great abilities with guns and weapons I'm sure. Plus, this group is tough enough to shit babies, they are tough enough for the military(not objective, but I'm throwing that out there).
Once again, if we let weak men who pass the tests in the military, then we have to let women who preform just as well.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: yasi]
    #9375354 - 12/05/08 08:14 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I think that the taboo of women in combat can be explained by evolution.  Societies which did not protect women and prevent their premature deaths by holding them back from combat would not have been able to repopulate against competing societies which did prevent women from going into combat.  Those societies that feared or despised sending women into combat would have been able to repopulate their societies much more quickly than societies where women were lost in combat.

That being said, the world is big enough to allow women into combat.  I think that women should be allowed in combat roles if they want to engage in combat.  I can't see one good reason not to let someone risk their life for whatever reason they want. 

Besides, haven't any of you seen Aliens?  Female soldiers kick just as much space bug ass as the men.

I can think of a few instances where women might be suited to combat roles.  Women generally are smaller than men, so they might often be better candidates to be fighter pilots (I'm too tall to be a fighter pilot, for example) or maybe in tanks.  I agree that they should have to pass the same physical tests that men in combat roles should serve.

I think the attitude that war is a "man's game" is disgusting.  War isn't a game.  War is deadly and dangerous.  If women want to fight, I don't see why men think they have the right to refuse women the right to serve in combat.  While I do think that men tend to naturally be the ones more interested in combat roles, I don't think that making the naturalistic fallacy (assuming that what happens in nature is right) is appropriate.  The simple fact is that this probably just means that combat roles will be less appealing to women.  Maybe the men who want to ban women from combat roles are afraid of appearing less masculine and manly.  Many men think that manhood is maintained by refusing to articulate the anxieties defining masculinity.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Plasmid]
    #9375663 - 12/05/08 08:58 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I think that the taboo of women in combat can be explained by evolution.  Societies which did not protect women and prevent their premature deaths by holding them back from combat would not have been able to repopulate against competing societies which did prevent women from going into combat.  Those societies that feared or despised sending women into combat would have been able to repopulate their societies much more quickly than societies where women were lost in combat.





You just totally pulled that out of your ass.

If you can show even one historical example of a society destroyed because its women fought I'd be flabbergasted.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Plasmid]
    #9376852 - 12/06/08 12:44 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Plasmid said:
Besides, haven't any of you seen Aliens?  Female soldiers kick just as much space bug ass as the men.




You're basing your theory on movie.....:wtf:


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9376962 - 12/06/08 01:24 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

i think the more humans willing to kill either eachother or themselves the better. time to cleanse the earth of humanity. if women sign up, then they cant reproduce when theyre dead, and even if not, the depleted uranium contamination should render their wombs uninhabitable.

war is the future of humanity, or hunger, what ever happens first.

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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9377141 - 12/06/08 02:13 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
Quote:

I think that the taboo of women in combat can be explained by evolution.  Societies which did not protect women and prevent their premature deaths by holding them back from combat would not have been able to repopulate against competing societies which did prevent women from going into combat.  Those societies that feared or despised sending women into combat would have been able to repopulate their societies much more quickly than societies where women were lost in combat.





You just totally pulled that out of your ass.

If you can show even one historical example of a society destroyed because its women fought I'd be flabbergasted.




I think by "society", he means "tribe". I'm pretty sure I saw a program on the history channel about that exact topic a few days ago.

If he's going to put that out there as his own opinion, you'd think he'd at least have the sense to study up on the topic a bit.

Wikipedia intellectuals will be the end of us.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9377150 - 12/06/08 02:16 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

blewmeanie said:
Wikipedia intellectuals




:ilold:


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9377156 - 12/06/08 02:18 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

A tribe is far more believable, but even then are cultural values considered a tenet in evolution?

It's not a matter of biological fitness, nothing is changing, just a few members of a species die because they had different sociological values.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9377183 - 12/06/08 02:26 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

If the military was shorthanded, the government would authorize a draft.  There are no advantages to having women in combat roles.  Please, list some, if you can. Augmenting the number of combat troops is not one of them.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9377191 - 12/06/08 02:30 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:

You just totally pulled that out of your ass.




Please don't accuse me of making things up on the spot.  You have misunderstood.

I actually got the idea from Steven Pinker's book The Blank Slate.

Quote:

If you can show even one historical example of a society destroyed because its women fought I'd be flabbergasted.




Where did I say that I had extensive or well documented evidence?  I proposed an explanation.  I'm sorry if you misunderstood my hypothesis as an absolute statement of fact.  I think that the fact that I started with "I think that . . ." and then made two general statements that merely serve as the logical framework for my explanation is obviously not the same thing as a published thesis where I try claiming that I do have extensive evidence of such thing.

I did not claim that I knew of any societies that were destroyed because its women fought.  I proposed it as an explanation.  I think that the weakness of a lot of evolutionary psychology is that there is a serious lack of evidence, but I still like these explanations.

So no I did not just make that up on the spot and I also didn't claim to know of any examples where societies were eliminated because women were sent to combat.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9377197 - 12/06/08 02:34 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

Plasmid said:
Besides, haven't any of you seen Aliens?  Female soldiers kick just as much space bug ass as the men.




You're basing your theory on movie.....:wtf:




This is why it pisses me off when people tell me, over the internet, that they don't like my "tone."

You're tone deaf over text.

The reference to Aliens was a JOKE.  How could you take that seriously for one second?  Are you that stoned?  You can't tell that I was joking?  Do you really think that I don't know the difference between fact and a science fiction film?  Am I angry now fuckwit or do I just like swearing at people who say stupid shit?  Can you not hear the giggle in my voice?

BTW, that wasn't a theory.  Please refer to a dictionary.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: skydog]
    #9377207 - 12/06/08 02:39 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Okay, so basically you were just throwing it out there as a random explanation.

Got it.

I think the military should stay the way it is with regards to women. They can serve almost anywhere. The few places they're not allowed are restricted for good reasons.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9377223 - 12/06/08 02:45 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

You people sicken me sometimes.  I research ideas relevant to forums that I think are important and that fall within my realm of expertise.  I'm a biochemist, not a sociologist.  This is a thread in THE PUB - the last time I went to a pub and had a discussion, it was over a pint of beer and wasn't very serious.  Of all the other idea in this thread, you decided to criticize mine.  Why?

I suppose I should be flattered.  I suspect that the only reason you're trying to hold me to a higher standard than everyone else in this thread is because my information usually is reliable.  Does it surprise you that sometimes even I like to shoot ideas off the top of my head?  I don't have to research every idea I propose and even if I have done research, I don't have to present a bibliography at the end of my posts (even though I've noticed that I seem to be one of the few posters who reads and cites journal articles). 

I don't care if you disagree with my idea, but if you want to disagree or shoot down my idea, then put a little more effort into it.  All you want to do is denigrate me.  You're trying to insult my idea by saying that I haven't researched it.  That's ironic because the basis of your insults is your own ass.  You're hypocrites.

I didn't get that idea off Wikipedia and I didn't bother to research it before making the post because this is a post in THE PUB.  I haven't read the book which inspired the idea for about a year or two and I don't remember many specific details, just the idea of it.

Again, if you have criticisms, why not try making real criticisms instead of making the absurd claim that I use Wikipedia as a primary source.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Plasmid]
    #9377241 - 12/06/08 02:53 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

It doesn't matter what forum it is. You're engaged in a dialog with other individuals. I try to treat everyone the same and limit my opinion to my realm of knowledge. I try to avoid speculation.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9377247 - 12/06/08 02:59 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crasher said:
A tribe is far more believable, but even then are cultural values considered a tenet in evolution?

It's not a matter of biological fitness, nothing is changing, just a few members of a species die because they had different sociological values.




While cultural values are definitely a major contributing factor in the evolution of our species, it doesnt necessarily work the other way around.

There are plenty of modern issues to be considered, without looking thousands of years into the past to understand our current perspective.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9377285 - 12/06/08 03:20 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Of course it matters what forum I'm in.  I know that I'm talking to other people here.  I didn't try to mislead anyone into thinking that what I said was absolute fact. 

If you want to avoid speculation, then that's up to you, but we are all allowed to speculate if we want to.  Don't assume that others are living by the rules which you've applied to yourself.  There is absolutely no reason to avoid speculating.  When I speculate, I tend to indicate this using phrases such as "I think that . . .".

I suspect that social values are influenced by genetics.  Women abhor being raped.  That's probably not a cultural construct.  I'm sure that there is something genetically determining the universal disdain women have for being raped.  I suspect that when it comes to attitudes and feelings about letting women go to war that this is also influenced by genetics.

As far as I remember, anthropological studies showed that pre-industrial societies (this can mean tribe but can also refer to largest populations) could lose upto half of their male population in raids.  I think that rape must also have a genetic component (and they clearly respond to the environment).  It's not hard to imagine two competing tribes with very different mentalities: the first only sends women into combat.  The second only sends men into combat and the men that return also come back with abducted "wives".  If both tribes start out at the same size and lose 25% of their soldiers during every raid (and the soldiers comprise a significant proportion of the population) then it's very easy to see that the tribe only sending men to war will have a much higher reproductive capability.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Plasmid]
    #9377293 - 12/06/08 03:24 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Helixx]
    #9377308 - 12/06/08 03:30 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

point?

people do fucked up stuff all over the world.

The thread was about women in the military.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: usefulidiot13]
    #9377416 - 12/06/08 05:42 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

on the topic of gender roles;  they exist naturally.

all the new age equality bullshit is just that; bullshit.

males and females are NOT equal. physically, mentally, emotionally, biologically etc. not the same.

now, knowing that we are not equal, we can still RESPECT each other and our DIFFERENT gender strengths.

women can respect men for their physical strength
men can respect women for their maternal ability

there are reasons why traditional roles existed, and it's not because of negative sexism, its nature.

10 men against 10 women in a to the death fight. 9 times out of 10 the men will win

10 men trying to calm 10 crying babies vs. 10 women, 9 times out of 10 the women will calm them faster.



it kind of bugs me when i meet guys who kiss ass when it comes to girls and fall for that new age feminazi "apples and oranges are equal" bullshit when they are clearly not, just to be on the "good side" of any girl that might happen to agree.

the day my dick disappears, i grow tits and a vagina, start crying more, and pmsing and get pregnant etc. is the day i'll say im equal to a woman.  though, chances are i would be a woman.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat related military jobs? [Re: Shins]
    #9377607 - 12/06/08 07:45 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
on the topic of gender roles;  they exist naturally.

all the new age equality bullshit is just that; bullshit.

males and females are NOT equal. physically, mentally, emotionally, biologically etc. not the same.

now, knowing that we are not equal, we can still RESPECT each other and our DIFFERENT gender strengths.

women can respect men for their physical strength
men can respect women for their maternal ability

there are reasons why traditional roles existed, and it's not because of negative sexism, its nature.

10 men against 10 women in a to the death fight. 9 times out of 10 the men will win

10 men trying to calm 10 crying babies vs. 10 women, 9 times out of 10 the women will calm them faster.



it kind of bugs me when i meet guys who kiss ass when it comes to girls and fall for that new age feminazi "apples and oranges are equal" bullshit when they are clearly not, just to be on the "good side" of any girl that might happen to agree.

the day my dick disappears, i grow tits and a vagina, start crying more, and pmsing and get pregnant etc. is the day i'll say im equal to a woman.  though, chances are i would be a woman.




Well said.


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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: skydog]
    #9377765 - 12/06/08 08:50 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Augmenting the number of combat troops is not one of them.




Why would you take a legitimate benefit of women joining and then say it is not a legitimate benefit before anyone can answer? This is a disingenuous debate tactic.

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