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 figmentfragment
leaving shroomery
Registered: 04/10/07
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 Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
#9256090 - 11/16/08 04:59 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deranger said:
there are quite a few true believers of skepticism as well.
a true skeptic is skeptical of his own skepticism IMO.
I am skeptical of the "skeptics".
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Goodbye Shroomery.
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 deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: figmentfragment]
#9256103 - 11/16/08 05:01 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm skeptical of the skeptics who are skeptical about the skeptics. 
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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figmentfragment
leaving shroomery
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deCypher]
#9256161 - 11/16/08 05:09 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Skepticism is ongoing...
it is like being skeptical x infinity no returns.
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Goodbye Shroomery.
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youbreakyoubuy
Monkey Mouth
Registered: 10/16/05
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#9257772 - 11/16/08 10:33 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Skepticism is recursive. As is believing.
Ultimately, they both are complex(or not so complex) feedback loops.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,609
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#9259095 - 11/17/08 08:48 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Where is the middle ground?
Jesus was The Messiah
Jesus was not The Messiah
Swami is The Man
Swami is The Man
Middle ground is not sure of the existence of Jesus.
Middle ground is OC is the man.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
#9259599 - 11/17/08 10:26 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
youbreakyoubuy said:
Skepticism is recursive. As is believing.
Ultimately, they both are complex(or not so complex) feedback loops.
No, skepticism about skepticism lets one fall back on believing. Sometimes that's quite relaxing unless one doesn't completely forget about skepticism itself 
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: figmentfragment]
#9259930 - 11/17/08 11:26 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
figmentfragment said:
Quote:
deranger said:
there are quite a few true believers of skepticism as well.
a true skeptic is skeptical of his own skepticism IMO.
I am skeptical of the "skeptics".
it's quite circular innnit.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deCypher]
#9259936 - 11/17/08 11:27 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
I'm skeptical of the skeptics who are skeptical about the skeptics.
yeah well i'm skeptical of what you just said :P
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: BlueCoyote]
#9259958 - 11/17/08 11:31 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
BlueCoyote said:
Quote:
youbreakyoubuy said:
Skepticism is recursive. As is believing.
Ultimately, they both are complex(or not so complex) feedback loops.
No, skepticism about skepticism lets one fall back on believing. Sometimes that's quite relaxing unless one doesn't completely forget about skepticism itself
QFT 
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figmentfragment
leaving shroomery
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: BlueCoyote]
#9259994 - 11/17/08 11:40 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
BlueCoyote said:
Quote:
youbreakyoubuy said:
Skepticism is recursive. As is believing.
Ultimately, they both are complex(or not so complex) feedback loops.
No, skepticism about skepticism lets one fall back on believing. Sometimes that's quite relaxing unless one doesn't completely forget about skepticism itself
Skepticism doesn't necessarily allow one to fall back on believing at all.
If I am skeptical of the skeptics, I myself am still skeptical, and this skepticism includes of myself.
If I am skeptical about the ideas that question "belief", it doesn't leave me believing, it leaves me nowhere.
Complete uncertainty over any matter.
I tend to hop back and forth between concepts, never feeling fulfilled or convinced one way or the other.
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Goodbye Shroomery.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
#9260045 - 11/17/08 11:50 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
BlueCoyote said:
No, skepticism about skepticism lets one fall back on believing. Sometimes that's quite relaxing unless one doesn't completely forget about skepticism itself
QFT
I actually misread what you said, so take away the QFT.
Skepticism sometimes can be a belief.
But is there not such thing as a true skeptic?
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: figmentfragment]
#9260067 - 11/17/08 11:54 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
figmentfragment said:
I tend to hop back and forth between concepts, never feeling fulfilled or convinced one way or the other.
we seem to think alike
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: figmentfragment]
#9260164 - 11/17/08 12:14 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I see skepticism as human's possibility grasp for negation. So I just negate skepticism itself for this.
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figmentfragment
leaving shroomery
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: BlueCoyote]
#9260223 - 11/17/08 12:28 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
BlueCoyote said:
I see skepticism as human's possibility grasp for negation. So I just negate skepticism itself for this.
Yes. It is not "skepticism" itself, I am skeptical about, but the ideas and thoughts that present themselves skeptical.
If I question one belief or idea, with a series of thoughts, then what gives these new thoughts, that question the original thought, any right to not have the same process applied.
 That was hardly coherent, why do I do this to myself?
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Goodbye Shroomery.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: figmentfragment]
#9260284 - 11/17/08 12:44 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
figmentfragment said:[...]why do I do this to myself?
Hehe, yes, that's one way of skeptic skepticism 
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daytripper23
?
Registered: 06/22/05
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: BlueCoyote]
#9260393 - 11/17/08 01:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thats a good way of putting it.
Everything we understand of the world is conceived as negation to a freedom; ultimately our own. Laws are conceived as limits, and arts are conceived in tensions. While Negation is a powerful tool in itself, it is nothing inasmuch as it claims that we are nothing. These two are in balance.
In skepticism one does not go beyond the dynamics of existence, because he is not in complete revolt. He affirms himself by remaining open to the world, and just the same, he affirms the "concrete" aspects of reality. The skeptic cannot grasp the absurdity of existence because, he is grounded in his own positive reality. In the same way that he cannot see reality in terms of faith, he also cannot see it in terms in nothingness, even though this is often his claim.
Existence and non-existence is unapproachable through simple negation. While such negations as skepticism and and asceticism are powerful tools, they are not existential.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: BlueCoyote]
#9260410 - 11/17/08 01:06 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
BlueCoyote said:
I see skepticism as human's possibility grasp for negation.
This is NOT the case in all definitions of skepticism. Your statement is biased IMO.
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daytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
#9260474 - 11/17/08 01:17 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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This is not by any means argument for believers. In fact, the reason I say skepticism is not an existential tool, is it remains in the spectrum of belief. It is a negation of belief.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: daytripper23]
#9260490 - 11/17/08 01:21 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Can you give an example where skepticism is not based in the negation of a fact, please ?
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: daytripper23]
#9260500 - 11/17/08 01:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's all play IMO. Nothing to take too seriously.
Question: Are we all defining skepticism in the same way?
We all interpret things differently, and getting caught up in semantics is a serious act (see: belief) and non-playful.
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