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 hoodbran
Dosser
 
Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 1,322
Loc: Phloston Paradise
Last seen: 14 minutes, 5 seconds
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 Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Icelander]
#9243797 - 11/14/08 11:02 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think any belief we believe has to have a personal ramification, so therefore a skeptic is one who doesnt believe everything, including lies about oneself that limit us by belief... a skeptic is one who chooses not to believe, even the lies about themself. it is possible to just 'know truth' without justifying it. 'believers' in the word, for example should actually be called skeptics.
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Not all drugs are good, Some are great.
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 The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,041
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: hoodbran]
#9243817 - 11/14/08 11:06 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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If a sceptic was really not to belive in any mental concept he would have total clarity & universal vision
Theres a huge difference between scepticism & cynicism but usually a 'sceptic' is actually just cynical & doesnt actually care about whats true...
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zannennagara
Found in Space
Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 424
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#9243929 - 11/14/08 11:29 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
S: Strives to have an internally consistent viewpoint.
B: Consistency is not very important.
The focus of consistency is different. A believer has the utmost internally consistent viewpoint, that of confirming the belief system, conforming the external world to the belief with possibly inconsistent methods. A skeptic makes the viewpoint internally consistent by conforming the external world to the apparent best consensus beliefs - note that to label oneself "skeptic" implies that one believes, in all cases, in disbelief, rather than leaving oneself open to possibilities, although I assume you use skeptic to mean leaving oneself free of dogmatic restrictions.
Quote:
S: Enjoys having his ideas challenged/questioned as it is a way to further knowledge.
B: Hates having his ideas challenged as they are writ in stone and should never be questioned as he already knows the important stuff.
Many skeptics hate having their ideas challenged, which is why so many become active and vocal skeptics. Most do not further knowledge in responding to believers but rather bolster their own, and dismissing the beliefs as idiotic delusions implies "already knowing the important stuff." I think the great challenge for a skeptic is to metaphorically incorporate the belief within a scientific context.
Quote:
S: Doesn't give a damn what you believe in until it affects him.
B: Has an overpowering urge to get you to accept his dogma and will not rest until you do.
I think critical thinking and skepticism is something most skeptics actively encourage, discontent with the enormous ranks of influential believers, wanting schools not to teach religion along science and so on before these students' beliefs affect anyone else.
Quote:
S: Likes broccoli.
B: Hates broccoli.
A skeptic would doubt any health benefits of broccoli until scientifically proven that the positive impact of broccoli is not a placebo and would consider its "good taste" as mental construction of health-crazed believers, whereas the believer accepts the dictates of paternalistic overlords and overcomes the disgust in his youth via conformity to a gustatory belief paradigm!
(Or he uses sauce, which is cheating.)
Is there so much difference between these poles? It seems the believer is critically skeptical of beliefs that contradict his community's consensus while the skeptic ridicules explanations that contradict his community's consensus.
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No debe haber separación, no puede haber definición.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#9244394 - 11/14/08 01:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
S: Likes broccoli.
B: Hates broccoli.
I believe in skepticism, but I like broccoli 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,609
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: The Chronic]
#9245040 - 11/14/08 03:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Sorry to be so pedantic but i only eat organic veg, apart from the pickles in my bacon double cheeseburger
I think being skeptical is good if you really still have the urge to discover truth, but if you dismiss everything as mystical new age nonsense then your just as ignorant as people who blindly believe in it, your still stuck in a mind state thats rigid & unopen to new knowledge, we are always learning so open minded scepticism is good, but closed minded scepticism is the most ignorant imo
The fact is that new knowledge comes in from the unknown, so if your not willing to explore the unknown then your being ignorant
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind"
Oh I'm wide open and have been for thirty five years. Yes, still waiting and still open.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 3,655
Loc: Mountains of N. America 
Last seen: 3 months, 7 days
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#9245106 - 11/14/08 03:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I believe I know nothing, and I'm skeptical of all that I know.
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Word to your mom.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,609
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: BrainChemistry]
#9245118 - 11/14/08 03:40 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sounds kind of contradictory.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 3,655
Loc: Mountains of N. America
Last seen: 3 months, 7 days
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Icelander]
#9245147 - 11/14/08 03:46 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Maybe me being alive is a contradiction then....
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Word to your mom.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,609
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: BrainChemistry]
#9245197 - 11/14/08 03:55 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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How so?
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
#9245557 - 11/14/08 05:22 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by VeritasReason for deletion: Please relate humorous insults via PM.
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 3,635
Last seen: 6 hours, 46 minutes
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer *DELETED* [Re: deranger]
#9245646 - 11/14/08 05:40 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by VeritasReason for deletion: Please relate humorous insults via PM.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer *DELETED* [Re: deranger]
#9245964 - 11/14/08 06:39 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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wow... my post was not intended to be an insult. it was intended to be a joke. wtf?
but thanks Veritas, for taking it the completely wrong way.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer *DELETED* [Re: Sleepwalker]
#9245996 - 11/14/08 06:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Oweyervishice said:
Post deleted by Veritas<p>Reason for deletion: Please relate humorous insults via PM.
Give me a break... Veritas you completely misinterpreted this whole discussion.
Oweyer, were we intending to insult Icelander?
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mofo
Hobby Jingoist
Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 2,232
Loc: Donkey Kong Kill Screen
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Nexion]
#9245998 - 11/14/08 06:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nexion said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
S: Likes broccoli.
B: Hates broccoli.
Key point! 
I hate broccoli, yet I found a way to consume vast amounts of it by disguising the taste. Where does that leave me?
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe
Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 3,307
Last seen: 6 days, 9 hours
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: mofo]
#9246045 - 11/14/08 07:02 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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S: Likes to poop standing up. They are skeptical of the germs. The germs.
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Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: mofo]
#9246058 - 11/14/08 07:07 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
mofo said:
Quote:
Nexion said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
S: Likes broccoli.
B: Hates broccoli.
Key point!
I hate broccoli, yet I found a way to consume vast amounts of it by disguising the taste. Where does that leave me?
as a skeptiever
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WhiskeyClone
Not here
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,474
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
#9246061 - 11/14/08 07:07 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hey, close those bold and italic tags, will ya? It's getting out of control
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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.
~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#9246066 - 11/14/08 07:09 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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so you want me to be unoriginal now? 
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mofo
Hobby Jingoist
Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 2,232
Loc: Donkey Kong Kill Screen
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#9246096 - 11/14/08 07:15 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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sorry, I get horribly lazy sometimes
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: The Chronic]
#9246217 - 11/14/08 07:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
I think being skeptical is good if you really still have the urge to discover truth, but if you dismiss everything as mystical new age nonsense then your just as ignorant as people who blindly believe in it, your still stuck in a mind state thats rigid & unopen to new knowledge, we are always learning so open minded scepticism is good, but closed minded scepticism is the most ignorant imo
The fact is that new knowledge comes in from the unknown, so if your not willing to explore the unknown then your being ignorant
Agreed, but I dislike it when people claim that skeptics have a closed mind (not saying that you're claiming that), that they aren't open to new ideas... but I'm exposed to new ideas all the time, particularly in science, and I love every bit of it. The believers tend to ignore that when making their "closed-minded" claims. Just because I think their beliefs are unfounded doesn't mean I'm closed minded! It's quite disingenuous to say so, IMHO.
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I know... that just the smallest
part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
but truth is the hardest thing to see
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