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 deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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 Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deCypher]
#9268653 - 11/18/08 07:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Can a microscope inspecting itself find a flaw in the lens that it's using to inspect?
if it were to practice self-reflection, maybe so.
or maybe if the microscope were to dose 800mcg of lsd whilst smoking tonnes of pot on the come up, it'd become aware of it's own lens.
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 Sleepwalker
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 3,635
Last seen: 6 hours, 46 minutes
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
#9268664 - 11/18/08 07:14 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Being aware of it's lens isn't the same as seeing the lens as it truly is.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
#9269105 - 11/18/08 08:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Maybe so, indeed. The point is that one cannot be certain.
Drugs and meditation only give another perspective from which to look out from; they don't wholly remove the lens and let us stare into the face of undifferentiated Truth.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Sleepwalker]
#9269415 - 11/18/08 08:58 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Oweyervishice said:
Being aware of it's lens isn't the same as seeing the lens as it truly is.
How so?
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deCypher]
#9269467 - 11/18/08 09:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Maybe so, indeed. The point is that one cannot be certain.
Is it not possible that one can be certain?
Quote:
Drugs and meditation only
no, not only. never only.
Quote:
Drugs and meditation only give another perspective from which to look out from; they don't wholly remove the lens and let us stare into the face of undifferentiated Truth.
Psychedelics and meditation can help one to be more aware of the lens. There is no removal of the lens. But there is cleansing of the lens. And there is the dirtying of the lens. True meditation cleanses the lens.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
#9269495 - 11/18/08 09:08 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's possible, sure, but one can never be absolutely sure that one isn't just looking out at the world through yet another (albeit slightly more transparent) lens.
I think meditation and psychedelics (and yes, other tools as well) can certainly help give us a clearer perspective, but this is far from saying that deep meditation or a high dose LSD trip will completely remove all beliefs, predispositions, and biased perspectives that we tend to view the world through.
I mean, hell, maybe they do--the point is that we'd never know.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deCypher]
#9269524 - 11/18/08 09:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
It's possible, sure, but one can never be certain that one isn't just looking out at the world through yet another (albeit slightly more transparent) lens.
I certain I just had a thought come into mind. I am certain I am aware right now. I am certain I am not as aware as I could be.
Quote:
I think meditation and psychedelics (and yes, other tools as well) can certainly help give us a clearer perspective, but this is far from saying that deep meditation or a high dose LSD trip will completely remove all beliefs, predispositions, and biased perspectives that we tend to view the world through.
I don't think so either, it's an life-long journey of awakening. If one chooses to wake up.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
#9269533 - 11/18/08 09:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Are you certain you're not dreaming right now?
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deCypher]
#9269576 - 11/18/08 09:21 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm certain I'm dreaming 
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
#9269580 - 11/18/08 09:22 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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 , OK, that was a good answer. Props.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deCypher]
#9269586 - 11/18/08 09:23 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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We need to stop this.
15 pages of ramblings from dreamers.
Will it ever end?
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
#9269592 - 11/18/08 09:25 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Not if we don't make it end.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deCypher]
#9269605 - 11/18/08 09:27 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Make it stop, please. My brain is about to shut down.
Need... more... piracetam.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deranger]
#9269622 - 11/18/08 09:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, it looks like it'll be forced to come to a temporary halt, anyways... I'm about to open the floodgates of a THC deluge onto my brain in combination with some ferocious Norwegian black fuckin' metal.
 'night, everyone.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: deCypher]
#9269632 - 11/18/08 09:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah I'm about to blaze a bowl.
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Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill 
Last seen: 7 hours, 7 minutes
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#9269868 - 11/18/08 10:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
How many fucking more pages of
"Did!"
"Did not!"
must aware readers suffer through? 
Dude... this is like free porn.
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I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,609
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer *DELETED* [Re: deranger]
#9271386 - 11/19/08 08:01 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by VeritasReason for deletion: Keep it about the ideas, please.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Icelander]
#9271404 - 11/19/08 08:05 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I love the way you circumvent the 'no personalism' clause. 
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This is your drain on brugs.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,609
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#9271424 - 11/19/08 08:11 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Veritas is my teacher. She pushes me relentlessly to perfect myself.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Booby
Agent Mulder
Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 3,781
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: The Main Differences between Skeptic and Believer [Re: Icelander]
#9271440 - 11/19/08 08:17 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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The viewpoint that we display different characteristics online that we wouldn't in person, goes a long way to dissuade me from thinking these people I chat with really are the image I have of them in my mind. (The image I construct from their on-line dialogue.)
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Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.
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