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RogerRabbit Said:

COLONIZATION
Temps/incubators

*I have found little to no difference in colonization speeds between 75 and 81F. Growth falls off rapidly at 83F and above, not 87F. That chart above is bogus, period. I have tried dozens of times to duplicate it and it can't be done. It was apparently made by someone who did ONE grow with sloppy note taking, and sent the results to Paul. Growth is much slower in cold temperatures until you hit 69F, where it speeds up quite a bit until about 75F, where it remains 'flat' until 81, then is flat again until 83, where it falls off fast beginning at 84. By 'flat' I mean there is no discernible increase or decrease in rate of growth within those ranges. Jars will colonize as fast at 75F as they will at 80F. I've proved this time and time again with every strain in my collection.
*And I've been trying to correct that disinformation for years. It's all based on a chart somebody mailed to stamets many years ago showing 86F to be the peak temperature for growth of cubensis on a petri dish, and everybody just accepts it as though Moses carried it down from the mountain on a tablet of stone. However, every single experiment I did to try to duplicate that with extremely accurate temperature monitoring was unable to verify that bogus 86F figure. What I have repeatedly found regardless of strain is that cubensis colonization remains rather flat from about 75F through 81F. Beginning at 83F, the rate of growth falls off sharply. By 86F, growth has slowed down nearly 50% what it was between 75f and 81F. These experiments were conducted on petri dishes that produce little to no heat because of the very thin layer of mycelium. In jars, up to several degrees of heat is produced by the colonizing mycelium; so definitely don't go over 80F to 81F if you're looking for maximum rate of growth. Furthermore, bacteria and thermophilic molds such as Mucor, the black pin mold are stimulated by higher temperatures. Therefore using an incubator set to 86F is certainly favoring bacteria and molds, while slowing down mushroom mycelium growth.
*Note that these tests were for linear growth in the two-dimensional plane of a petri dish. In three-dimensional space such as in grain jars or bulk substrates, the effects of thermogenesis need to be considered, so ambient temps should be lowered slightly to compensate
*80-83F is optimal growth incubation temperature but anything past 81-83F increases the chances of thermophilies a.k.a contamination/bacteria. The 86F myth is based on a flawed agar study where heat isn't generated on petri dishes. Mycelia growth declines rapidly at 86F and above. Paul Stamets later reviles that that is misinformation and should be lower. If it drops into the 60's however your speed of colonization will go slowly. 75-78F or at room temperature in the 70's is perfect for jars. Heating jars in incubator causes a lot of condensation, condensation is where the inside 'Temperature' differs from the outside. This has nothing to do with humidity. Condensation is the enemy of mushroom cultivation. It breeds bacteria and any moisture that is stuck to the walls is moisture that is NOT in the air any more, making your crop suffer. You should read up every week about how many noobs come in asking if they've cooked there jars because there temperature met all the way to the 100F +. This is why I disagree as well as speeding up a few days later, why? To run into more problems? For bulk substrates I wouldn't go higher then 80F as they already create enough heat by themselves.
*How often do we see posts where people have incubators set at 86F, and they're asking why their jars aren't colonized after four to five weeks, and they have large spots of yellow liquid forming? The liquid is metabolites that the mycelium secretes in response to stress, usually from competitor molds and/or bacteria. What has happened, is they've slowed down the mycelium while stimulating the competitors.
Growth also falls off rapidly above 84, and this is why so many new folks have problems with incubators set at 86F, and jars that 'won't colonize'. The figures I give are substrate temperatures, not air temperatures. The temp inside the jar is 1 to 5 degrees higher than the surrounding air, depending on where in the colonization cycle the jar is. The heat produced falls off fast as the jar approaches full colonization.
*Wild swings in temperature cause air exchanges between the jars and the outside. If the changes are rapid, they can easily be too much for the filtering material, especially if only dry vermiculite is used. I don't recommend incubators, but find a nice room that holds at least to within five degrees or so. 75F to 81F is ideal. Above that, the returns are not worth the increased rate of contamination that will be experienced.
*Foil should be removed as soon as they're sterilized. It's important to have gas exchange during colonization, so I don't put them in a box of any kind. My jars colonize on an open bookshelf at normal room temperature.

Light/Dark

*Incubating dark is another thing in Paul Stamets 'The Mushroom Cultivator' that needs to go away. The old advice of "incubate in total darkness" is bunk. Those words were written by Stamets in TMC 20 years ago, and he disavows that advice today. There is no harm or benefit from keeping jars in the dark. Expose them to normal room lighting from day one. There is no reason at all to ever have your mycelia in the dark. Darkness will only delay pinning. If you give light from day one, your yields will go up, and you won't face overlay problems. I've found no benefit or harm from allowing the grain jars to be exposed to light from day one. If a few pins form in the grains, it is actually a good thing. Contrary to popular belief, a few pins in the grains can be spawned right into the manure or straw (or used in grain to grain transfers) and they do not rot or otherwise cause contamination. There is evidence they actually help to give a faster, more uniform pinset in the eventual flushes. Stamets believes it's the hormones or other chemical triggers in the pins that do this. Exposing light from day one, one jar out of a hundred will make an early pin or two, but I simply spawn those pins right into bulk substrate along with the grains with zero ill effects. (In other words, small pins don't contaminate when spawned to bulk along with the grains). Twenty years ago, Stamets wrote in TMC to "incubate in total darkness" and people stick to that as if they were the words of god. However, stamets no longer teaches incubation in darkness, and I agree. If you visit fungi perfect, you'll see 10,000 square feet of incubation area, with 8' fluorescent tubes lighting the entire area for ten to twelve hours per day. Of course myc will grow in the presents of light. IME myc grows faster in the absence of light also in nature myc colonizing substrate is most always not exposed to light so when we do not know for sure we will try to mimic nature which IMHO is the intelligent thing to do. Paul is a pioneer and is always learning as are we and things (ideas) will change again as we begin to really understand better what nature has given us.
*Light has absolutely NOTHING to do with telling the mycelium that it has reached the surface. The increased fresh air, with the corresponding drop in CO2 levels sends the mycelium that message.
Light is also NOT just to establish the direction the fruits grow. In fact, air currents have a greater effect on direction of growth than light. If you doubt this, place a fan on your crop and watch.
A few seconds of light per day will NOT help to generate a good pinset. In fact, light is a secondary pinning trigger, but an important one. The difference between three or four pins, and hundreds of pins on a substrate can be directly correlated to the length, intensity, and frequency of the light applied, provided the primary pinning triggers have been fulfilled.
The light needs to be intense enough to penetrate 1/2" into the substrate. Not all pins form on the surface. Many originate from deeper in the substrate or casing layer.
Higher frequency light above a color temperature of 5,000 Kelvin will generate far more pins than a 'red' source of light such as incandescent lamps.
Fungi are a living organism that is much more closely related to mammals such as humans, than to plants. People need to quit looking at mycelium as a different kind of plant, which it isn't. Mycelium has been shown to have circadian rhythms just like mammals, and this is the reason that 12/12 light cycles work best. This planet, and all surface life on it are based on the 24-hour day. For best results, learn to work with nature rather than against it. Mycelium has an amazing ability to cope with less than optimal conditions, and will often fruit when a grower does everything wrong. However, do everything right and watch your performance go through the roof.
*Recent experiments (over the last 23 years) have shown the error of that statement in TMC. Many experiments have shown conclusively that fluorescent lamps in the 6500K range produce better pinsets and healthier, meatier fruits than other forms of light. Stamets himself does not repeat that 'flash of light' triggers pinning nonsense. In fact, he recommends fluorescent lamps in the 6,500-Kelvin range for 12/12 just as I do. In addition, there's a huge difference in saying something can result in 'pins', and helping to trigger a very nice flush.
Light, and the intensity/frequency of light is extremely important if one is interested in greater than mediocre performance. Many species, such as agaricus and P cubensis, can pin in the total absence of light. That doesn't mean light isn't required for best results, especially with light sensitive species such as P cubensis and P ostreatus.

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P.Menace said:
hmm, as i see it, its a place to ask for help... cause yes i know noone reads the shit at the top.
but whatever, keep to your Rampant misinformation and enjoy then.

Edit.
You must mean the links to the FAQ and grow guides that are right at the top of the forum and still noone reads.

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P.Menace said:
You are very wrong my friend.
everytime you click on your threads button guess what will be at the TOP? thats right this thread, and guess what... the experienced growers would jump in with their 2 cents all the time. trust me.
I do it all the time.

Besides... your one of the noobs, and the reason you make these statements is because you think your question is either more important than everyone  elses, or that your question will go unanswered, and you cant stand that thought.

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ok thats twice i got called a dick tonight :mybad:
bong break and lets try this again.

look at the mood icon, thats the first its changed in weeks

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and I found a lot of useful information here and I asked questions only when I couldn't find specific answers to my question.

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When I first joined, I read every sticky.  I always was searching for specific information (which works 99% of the time), but can be time consuming.  Having a simply organized accurate source of information would probably be beneficial.  It'd be an easy reference thread to check for new people.

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Coffee said:

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Shr00mZ said:
Maybe there should be a page when you sign up to be a member that explains: how to use the ... search bar... Every question........ I c on the cultivation page... usually has been asked 4 times... already. like why r my cakes not fruiting, Whats this white stuff on my cake... common sense things to a mushroom cultivator. I c alot of questions that are stupid to be honest. Id like to see threads about new experiments or different techniques.

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Yeah, but you must realize that you'd have to be extremely lazy to not even think of searching in the first place, so someone with laziness of this caliber wouldn't search anyway.  It's enticing to a noob to ask things like "It's been 6 days in the fc and there's no pinning yet! Wtf!" just to get 20+ replies including the word "patience" for some reason.

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Too fucking true, and thats a THIS THREAD question, so it can just be repeated here and maybe someone will read the shit... if even by accident