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Offlinedrama
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Question about air exchange during incubation;
    #9017290 - 10/02/08 09:55 AM (6 years, 29 days ago)

Hi, I need clarification on the point of gas exchange after inoculation and during incubation.  Let us consider the following scenarios:
1. during sterilization we have mason jars with two layers of foil only, and no lids.  Then, we inoculate the jars by removing one of the layers of aluminum foil, and puncturing one hole in the center of the remaining foil and inoculate along the four sides.  After inoculation we place back the second foil we removed and seal it tightly, and then incubate.  Now, granted we placed the second foil back on, is sufficient gas exchange going to occur?  Or is it ok?
2. during sterilization we have mason jars with two layers of foil, and the metal lids that come with the mason jars.  Then, we inoculate the jars by removing the lid and one of the layers of foil, and puncture one hole in the center of the remaining foil and inoculate along the four sides.  After inoculation we place back the second foil and the mason jar lid we initially removed and seal it tightly, and then incubate.  How does gas exchange occur here?  Or is it ok?
3. during sterilization we only have mason jars and the lids they come with.  The lids are two components, first a disc and second a securid rim lid.  We flip the disc, puncture it four times and put masking tape over the holes.  We then inoculate and replace the masking tape?

Cheers,


Edited by drama (10/02/08 10:02 AM)


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Question about air exchange during incubation; [Re: drama]
    #9017303 - 10/02/08 10:01 AM (6 years, 29 days ago)

The first one I think you will have no problem with, you probably don't even need the 2nd layer of foil to keep out contams, once they're steralized a small hole, ime, shouldn't make much of a difference as long as your incubation container/room is relatively clean. Spray some lysol or something and wash the walls, you should be fine.

The 2nd one, I think you may have a problem. Why did you not punch of a hole in the lid? I'd remove that metal lid if nothing else.


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If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us.
  - Hermann Hesse

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Offlinerobanero
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Re: Question about air exchange during incubation; [Re: drama]
    #9017305 - 10/02/08 10:03 AM (6 years, 29 days ago)

Are you talking about the PF tek? If so you should have a layer of dry verm and the lids that came with the jars. You should drill holes in the lids and after you sterilized the jars take the foil off and DO NOT remove the lids and do not put the foil back on after noc up. The holes in the lids provide gas exchange.

I hope that helps.

:peace:
Roban


--------------------

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Offlineneybis
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Re: Question about air exchange during incubation; [Re: drama]
    #9017799 - 10/02/08 12:58 PM (6 years, 29 days ago)

1. i would say at least you shouldn't get contams(you have the second foil covering all holes created) but GE will be diminished and may result in slower myc growth

2. this would be essentially the same thing as #1 but i think you are decreasing you chance of contams so probably a better choice

3. probably best option but instead using masking tape i would use a sterilized bandaid, this should have a similar effect to tyvek/polyfill as bandaids are breathable but still not the real thing

If i had to choose, I would go with #3 but lock the lids down, don't flip them upside down...realistically you should just go get some free tyvek from the post office, its been done many times and is proven to work


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OfflineBrennus
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Re: Question about air exchange during incubation; [Re: neybis]
    #9017863 - 10/02/08 01:15 PM (6 years, 29 days ago)

If you're using the PF Tek, you need a dry vermiculite barrier on top of your inoculated spawn. If you're doing grains, you need lids with some sort of filter like synthetic filter discs, polyfil, or tyvek.

You need GAS EXCHANGE not AIR EXCHANGE during incubation.


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Offlinedrama
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Re: Question about air exchange during incubation; [Re: Brennus]
    #9018150 - 10/02/08 02:33 PM (6 years, 29 days ago)

Hi Guys, ok great, if you were nearby I'd buy a few beers as thanks.  Yes, I shall be using the PF Tex method with rice flour and verm.  I just have some very brief followup questions, apologies for the naievety. 

1. If I use aluminum foil only, granted your responses, after innoculating I just leave one of the foils on.  Also, when it comes time for inoculation, I should make four separate insertion points into the foil for a single jar so to improve GE.

2. If I am to use lids, before sterilzation I puncture four holes in each of the lids.  I wrap the foil over the lid, and sterilize.  Then, I inoculate in the four holes and use band-aid to cover the holes thereafter. 

3. Could you elaborate how the Tyvek is used?  Are you suggesting that pre-sterilzation, I remove the metal disc lid that comes with the jars, wrap the top of it with Tyvek, and secure it down with the ring that comes with the jars.  Will it not melt?  Not using foil in the sterilization, afterwards I then merely poke one hole when incubating since the Tyvek allows for GE. 

Cheers,


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OfflineCoffee
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Re: Question about air exchange during incubation; *DELETED* [Re: drama]
    #9018230 - 10/02/08 02:56 PM (6 years, 28 days ago)

Post deleted by Coffee

Reason for deletion: :coffee:



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Offlinemisos
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Re: Question about air exchange during incubation; [Re: drama]
    #9018246 - 10/02/08 03:03 PM (6 years, 28 days ago)

1. Personally, I wouldn't just use al. foil. It can tear easily. Just use the lids that came with the jars. Plus, you can continue to reuse them instead of having to throw them away and litter the earth, unless you recycle, with more trash.

2. Don't use bandaids.? I think that would be an awful idea. If you want to use anything to cover up the holes, use micropore tape so your jars can breathe. Technically, since you have the vermiculite layer, you don't even need to cover the holes, as the verm. layer acts as a contam barrier.

As for the foil over the lids, that is mainly just to keep excess water out of the jars while sterilizing. You can remove those after you inoculate.

3. As for the tyvek, you seem to have it down. But... I think that the idea of tyvek is to allow gas exchange, while not allowing any more moisture to enter/escape. It is also used as a caontam barrier. I think that these are typically used for grain jars, and not BRF, since you have the verm layer with the PF Tek. Meh. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I hate misinforming people.

Other than that, good luck.


--------------------
"If I had a single wish, I would have every single human on this planet see this natural world the way I see it; the beauty in such simple things such as a fallen tree that is covered in moss and that has new trees growing from it. To some, fallen trees are ugly. But in reality, it is the circle of life at its finest. This is a beautiful world, its time that we recognize that before its all gone."


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Question about air exchange during incubation; [Re: Coffee]
    #9018249 - 10/02/08 03:03 PM (6 years, 28 days ago)

I ordered some free tyvek from usps but never even used it. I'm sure it's a good extra step to be on the side of caution but I've never got a contaminated jar unless I just did a shitty job with something else. It's not hard to remain contam free as long as you're mildly hygenic in your process. I normally do wbs which is more open to contamination than brf/vermiculight (at least that's what I've heard) and all I do is punch a couple holes in my jar lids, use some porous tape, I forget what it's called, it's made by 3m. You should be able to find it in the medical supplies at your local walmart or grocer. Then I put some foil on the top to prevent water when I PC. Next I take the foil off, noc em up and throw em in my uh.... word that's escaping me. Warm chamber where shit starts happening in the jars lol.

edit: I left out obvious things such as wiping everything down with alcohol and spraying lysol, but you get the idea.


--------------------
If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us.
  - Hermann Hesse

Marketplace Thread - Looking for edibles/medicinals in trade for a Mazatapec P. Cubensis print.


Edited by krypto2000 (10/02/08 03:05 PM)


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Offlinefr33d0mfry
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Re: Question about air exchange during incubation; [Re: Coffee]
    #9018255 - 10/02/08 03:05 PM (6 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Coffee said:
Just make the 4 holes before you sterilize.  I'd use lids instead of just ton foil.  Put tin foil over the lids before sterilization (just to prevent water from getting in).  If you use a layer of dry verm, then it's unlikely for it to get contaminated anyway.  I'm not sure as for tyvek; it seems unnecessary.




qft

if you have the dry verm barrier you don't need tyvek/polyfill or any of that jazz

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS cover your jars in tin foil before pcing
and always remove the tin foil after you inoculate


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: Question about air exchange during incubation; [Re: fr33d0mfry]
    #9018461 - 10/02/08 03:54 PM (6 years, 28 days ago)

your inoc holes should not be covered, this will hinder gas exchange and can lead to slow colinisation and stalling.


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Offlinedrama
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Re: Question about air exchange during incubation; [Re: veda_sticks]
    #9019126 - 10/02/08 06:35 PM (6 years, 28 days ago)

Got it, cheers.


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Offlineneybis
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Re: Question about air exchange during incubation; [Re: drama]
    #9019441 - 10/02/08 07:38 PM (6 years, 28 days ago)

i have a 3/8" hole for GE and a 1/8" hole for innoc that i cover after im done knockin it up...very unlikely that a contam can enter through the hole u made but not impossible


--------------------
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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

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