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Offlinenenl
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Registered: 07/16/08
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clean room design
    #9008558 - 09/30/08 04:22 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

I'm starting to get into agar, so I decided to build a dedicated area that would be sterile. I'm currently working with a home made glove box which works, but it's cramped in there. There isn't any room in the house, at least no place that can be easily sterilized so I'm working on an idea to make a "clean area" in the garage for maintaining a sterile environment for agar work, inoculation, etc. Might be overkill, but I 1. would rather too much than not enough and 2. I love carpentry and haven't had a project in a while. I've been tinkering with this design for a week or so and will probably get the materials and build this weekend.



Overall dimensions: 7.5' tall 4' wide 4' deep (7.5' not 8' because the garage floor to ceiling is 8')
All the plywood would be painted and covered in plastic to prevent mold from forming in the air current and work area.
Plastic curtain for rear protection from air currents (green in the 3D drawing).
2 replaceable hepa filters for air cleaning (blue in drawing).
The in and output should recycle most if not all the air in the working area rather than pull unsterile air from the rest of the garage (right?)
Small box fan for circulation - modified so on/off and speed controls are mounted in an accessable area.
Two shelves for storage and maybe incubation or fc if I add environmental control.

Everything including hepa filters, screws, wood, etc, etc will cost about $120. I figure hepa filters won't need to be replaced very often as I'd be using it 20-30 hours a month max.

Looking for and any comments or ideas to make it better or point out something wrong...

Thanks all


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hehe


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Invisiblemusher_420
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Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 2,691
Re: clean room design [Re: nenl]
    #9008699 - 09/30/08 04:56 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Nice picture.

What you really need is a flowhood.

The replacement hepa filters wont provide you with enough filtration to run laminar flow (even if they could they aren't designed properly for laminar flow), nor will the box fan be able to produce the required flow rate at the static pressure that will be produced when using the proper hepa filter.

My advice is to save your money and build the proper flowhood, it'll be more versatile and space efficient anyways.

Look on ebay for hepa filter appropriate for laminar flow.  Occasionally you can get them for a decent price.  Then look for a blower fan for cheap they are more widely available then the filters that's for sure.  One out of an old furnace will work for a large filter. If the blower is too strong it may be possible to slow it down by changing the connections or if it's belt driven you could change the pulleys or see if you can find a variable speed controller for an AC motor for cheap.

If you really shop around you may be able to build yourself a flowhood for the same price.. 200-300 is probably more realistic when all is said and done.  But if you consider how much time and materials you'll save with a significantly reduced contamination rate... it's worth it, in my opinon.

If you want more info on flowhoods I could find some of the links that helped me out.


Edited by musher_420 (09/30/08 05:01 PM)


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: clean room design [Re: musher_420]
    #9008723 - 09/30/08 04:59 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

I agree it looks good and all but save your self time, money, and aggrevation and just either build or buy a flowhood and use it in a bedroom that is closed off..  just put it in the bedroom turn it on for about an hour before u use it and close the door that room will be as good as a clean room within the hour..


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Offlinenenl
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Registered: 07/16/08
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Re: clean room design [Re: musher_420]
    #9008728 - 09/30/08 05:00 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

musher_420 said:
If you want more info on flowhoods I could find some of the links that helped me out.




If you have nothing better to do... From the details you posted, I'm heading the the right direction (now).

Thanks


--------------------
hehe


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: clean room design [Re: nenl]
    #9008741 - 09/30/08 05:03 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Here is a link on the basics of building your own flowhood..  Have fun and happy shrooming...

LINK


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OfflineDreamtime
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Registered: 07/14/08
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Re: clean room design [Re: musher_420]
    #9008748 - 09/30/08 05:04 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

looks good nenl, wish I had the space for something like this!

would love to see end result, good luck


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Invisiblemusher_420
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Registered: 08/01/05
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Re: clean room design [Re: nenl]
    #9008781 - 09/30/08 05:13 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Haha, I have many more important things I could do but what can I say I'm a procrastinator.

This one is almost standard to begin your research.  The other link posted before this one looks good too.
http://www.fungifun.org/English/Flowhood

here's another one
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5569636#Post5569636

I lost my bank of links so that's the only ones I can remember off hand.

But a couple things to note is that you need to achive a flow rate of about 100ft per minute and this can be checked once the flowhood is finished by lighting a bic lighter into the stream.  The lighter should blow over about 45-90 degrees but not blow out.  I thought that was a neat trick (courtesy Roger Rabbit)

Also the seal around the edges of the filter is critical any air excaping will create turbulence that will distrubt the laminar flow.


Edited by musher_420 (09/30/08 05:24 PM)


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Offlinenenl
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Registered: 07/16/08
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Re: clean room design [Re: musher_420]
    #9008821 - 09/30/08 05:21 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

musher_420 said:

The replacement hepa filters wont provide you with enough filtration to run laminar flow (even if they could they aren't designed properly for laminar flow), nor will the box fan be able to produce the required flow rate at the static pressure that will be produced when using the proper hepa filter.




I like the idea of versitile, but I really want to build this design (with the proper equipment) - it's the way I am.

Would it be ok to replace the output hepa in the original design with a laminar flowhood like the one in your link? Leaving everything else the same? Basically, dropping the laminar flowhood in.

Something like:


Guess I won't be getting any sleep now that I have encyclopedias of info to absorb :smile: thanks all for the education.


--------------------
hehe


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Offlinemisos
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Re: clean room design [Re: nenl]
    #9008871 - 09/30/08 05:31 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

I would recommend a carbon air filter and a ionic generator. To hell with hepa. Those things just blow the air around. I had 2. One broke, and the other is... kinda worthless. Now I have owned a carbon air filter and an ionic breeze, had them set p in my grow room with 18 Flowering females, and it cut the smell in half, just with the two. Should tell you something. I stilll have the ionic one, and when I leave my room for a few hours and come back in, I can smell the OZONE. It's kinda cool.


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"If I had a single wish, I would have every single human on this planet see this natural world the way I see it; the beauty in such simple things such as a fallen tree that is covered in moss and that has new trees growing from it. To some, fallen trees are ugly. But in reality, it is the circle of life at its finest. This is a beautiful world, its time that we recognize that before its all gone."


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Invisiblemusher_420
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Re: clean room design [Re: nenl]
    #9008933 - 09/30/08 05:42 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Let me borrow your diagram for a minute


The idea is creating that stream of steril air.  As long as it's flowing all contaminate will be blown away.  So as long as you aren't introducing contams up-stream of your steril work area with say your hands or tools it will work (well, 99.997% of the time).  Laminair flow is important because turbulence generates "eddy currents" in a way that can cause a contaminating spore to drift onto your clean work.

My fan just sits ontop of my filter box with the pre-filter wrapped around it and works fine.  I don't see why your design wouldn't work,  I can see how you'd like to re-cycle the air, maybe that will extend the life of the filters..

When done correctly a flow hood works wonderfully, don't take my word for it just do a little searching of the experianced cultivators in the forum.


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Offlinenenl
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Re: clean room design [Re: musher_420]
    #9013220 - 10/01/08 02:57 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Stayed up all night looking for filters and blowers. Found a lot, but didn't find the money to buy them:) I'm planning on going with the original design with two "good" replaceable hepa filters from home depot for the time being and build it so I can replace the output filter with a laminar flowhood when I get that bought and built.

The question is, would it be better to leave it running while I'm working or just use it to clean the air before I start working then shut it off for a still air environment.

I'm also planning on adding a sheet of plexiglass between me and the work to facilitate the still air and help block any contam that might be on me.  I'd leave about 16" from the bottom of the work surface to reach in. This might turn into a full blown glove box, but I doubt it.


--------------------
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Invisiblemusher_420
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Re: clean room design [Re: nenl]
    #9013905 - 10/01/08 05:18 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

I hate to keep shooting down your ideas but I think you'd be better with a still air glove box then blowing air through a filter that has less than 99.997% efficiency.

Even the air out of a proper flowhood will have some contaminating spores in it and the best off the shelf replaceable filter will have 10X that number of contaminate spores blowing through.

Considering you need a rate of at least 100ft of clean air blowing over your work surface every minute just to blow away bacteria out of you mouth while you breath before it lands on your work.  Now if your using an inferior filter your also going to end up blowing a bunch of contam spores onto your work in that air stream.  That's why you need such an expensive filter.

Even tho your re-cycling the air the air current is going to create convection that will pull in surrounding air that will not be clean even you will have many spores and bacteria on your body.

It might be useful for filtering the air before hand.  But I would turn it off and work in a still air environment when aseptic conditions are required.

Since your already starting to talk about restricting your mobility in it by adding that sheild I think maybe you should consider saving your money and just build a regular glove box.  Maybe just make it really large so you can put a decent off the shelf hepa right inside and run it for 30mins or so before starting any work then shut it off.


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Offlinenenl
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Re: clean room design [Re: musher_420]
    #9013951 - 10/01/08 05:27 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

no worries man - it's my style - I over do these things. I know a glovebox from a $5 tub is way easier cheaper and same effect, but it's not nearly as fun to build... :smile:

I will ultimately make the laminar flowhood, but I won't be able to get the required filter and blower for another couple weeks. So in the meantime I'm going to build it with the store filters and cheap fan. I'll use it as a giant glove box of sorts with the plexiglass addition.

It might not be any more sterile than a glovebox in a bathroom, but it'll look a heck of a lot better... it'll end up in the garage (mancave) with all my other unnecessarily complicated things...

Thanks again for all the input.


--------------------
hehe


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