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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Doing pointless/destructive things for money
    #8889260 - 09/07/08 12:53 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

My roommate has a friend who does this. He says that she told him that she making about 15 grand Canadian per month doing this.

She uses a program to buy up thousands of tickets to various shows and concerts in seconds. The program can even read the captcha, which is designed to fool automated programs. The tickets are then sold to ticket brokerage sites on the internet, sometimes for ten times the original price or more.

The problem I have with this is that she does not provide any useful service to humanity. She simply makes money and prevents regular people from attending venues that they want to see.

In BC it is legal to resell tickets so that's how she is able to get away with it. But I mean common, what is this woman providing to anyone? Nothing in my opinion. And there are thousands of activities like this that people do all the time...

At the end of your life when you look back at all you have accomplished, can you really be proud that you annoyed thousands of people unable to afford a scalped ticket? Because every dollar you get is guaranteed to have really pissed someone off because they couldn't afford the ticket price.

Maybe I'm wrong on the issue. Maybe that's just the way humans are, very selfish and willing to do anything if it benefits them. So maybe I should just accept that people are going to do stuff like this because that's who WE are.

Maybe I should join them? But I can't... because money means fuck all for me. I mean I would rather have no money at all than do what she does.

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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #8889271 - 09/07/08 12:57 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

BTW my roommate told me about this after I was talking about this CBC Marketplace show:

http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/ticket_takers/

It was interesting because he didn't understand the impact of what she was doing, but after seeing a bit of the show he connected the dots. People seem to think that "ticket brokerage" is not the same as scalping. But in fact its exactly the same, only much worse.

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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #8889284 - 09/07/08 01:02 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

She sounds like a greedy bitch to me.

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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Posts: 11,123
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #8889295 - 09/07/08 01:06 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Are you saying you wouldn't do it? 15k per month?

My guess is... and this is only a guess... most people would do it if they had the chance.

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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #8889299 - 09/07/08 01:07 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, itd be overly tempting, but Id feel like an asshole about it.

I dunno, its the kinda thing you get angry about hearing someone do though, like charging people for tap water when they have no other source of hydration and then sitting all comfy and cozy in a mansion, while people who cant afford it are dehydrated to death.

Its just as bad as the person who buys sheets of acid for 70 bucks and sells 10 dollar single hits.

Edited by MisterMuscaria (09/07/08 01:10 AM)

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OfflineJeffedelic
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #8889329 - 09/07/08 01:14 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

You should just make a faster program, buy all the tickets first, then sell them to the community for way cheaper than other scalpers. You'd be doing humanity a favor and turning a slight profit.


--------------------

"It's hard to stay mad, when there's so much beauty in the world." -Lester Burnham

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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #8889335 - 09/07/08 01:15 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

And you know what, there are thousands or millions of activities like this happening all the time.

I can't count how many of my friends lie and manipulate the system so they can collect unemployment insurance. You know what? Even when I could have collected unemployment insurance I DIDN'T. Because I saved my fucking money and was not in dire financial straights.

Now I look at my friend, let's call him Mike. Well Mike lied to the employment officer and collected his unemployment WHILE ON FUCKING VACATION OUT OF THE COUNTRY.

And since I pay my taxes, I am really paying for Mike to go on a meaningless vacation at the taxpayers expense. It's like he's somehow morally unaware of the "wrongness" of stealing money intended for people who actually need it.

Ugh...

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Offlinesandman_130
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #8889370 - 09/07/08 01:24 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

adjust said:
My roommate has a friend who does this. He says that she told him that she making about 15 grand Canadian per month doing this.

She uses a program to buy up thousands of tickets to various shows and concerts in seconds. The program can even read the captcha, which is designed to fool automated programs. The tickets are then sold to ticket brokerage sites on the internet, sometimes for ten times the original price or more.

The problem I have with this is that she does not provide any useful service to humanity. She simply makes money and prevents regular people from attending venues that they want to see.

In BC it is legal to resell tickets so that's how she is able to get away with it. But I mean common, what is this woman providing to anyone? Nothing in my opinion. And there are thousands of activities like this that people do all the time...

At the end of your life when you look back at all you have accomplished, can you really be proud that you annoyed thousands of people unable to afford a scalped ticket? Because every dollar you get is guaranteed to have really pissed someone off because they couldn't afford the ticket price.

Maybe I'm wrong on the issue. Maybe that's just the way humans are, very selfish and willing to do anything if it benefits them. So maybe I should just accept that people are going to do stuff like this because that's who WE are.

Maybe I should join them? But I can't... because money means fuck all for me. I mean I would rather have no money at all than do what she does.





kill the bitch.

Seriously.

I have been fucked out of tickets and can rarely get floor seats thanks to those companies.

kill the bitch.

I even emailed then before and asked wtf they do with tickets that they dont sell the day of the event? no replies...They must throw out perfectly good tickets if they dont sell.

fucken cunt suckers.

kill that fucken bitch.


--------------------
:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:"There is a world beyond ours, a world that is far away, nearby, and invisible. And there is where God lives, where the dead live, the spirits and the saints, a world where everything has already happened and everything is known. That world talks. It has a language of its own. I report what it says. The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand.":mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:

:sunny::mushroom2:Maria Sabina:mushroom2::sunny:

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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: sandman_130]
    #8889424 - 09/07/08 01:45 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

What would that solve though? There are obviously hundreds or even thousands of other people doing the exact same thing.

And yeah they do throw out the tickets because they need to corner the market to drive up the price. They are just in it to make money by manipulating the supply of tickets to where it's most profitable to them.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #8889494 - 09/07/08 02:07 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Considering other people already take copious advantage of the system, I see no qualms in joining them.  :evil:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Offlineigwna
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #8889504 - 09/07/08 02:09 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

yeah money sucks but fuck if it doesnt make life a bit easier.

its not greedy to want a life that doesn't include you working yourself to death.


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #8889781 - 09/07/08 05:56 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Wow, I can't believe the answers in this thread! :lol:
Not wanting to do the same thing with your own life is one thing, but experiencing so much anguish and hate because of someone else's actions is simply ridiculous, not to mention fruitless. :shrug:

Quote:

The problem I have with this is that she does not provide any useful service to humanity.




How can you know for sure if she is not doing anything useful to humanity? Maybe, by using this program, she will determine the owners of the websites that initially sell the tickets to increase the security level.
Also, why should it be a requirement for her to help the others?
The only problem that I see in here is your own inability to accept that some people will do things that you find amoral and that you personally would never do.

We are all selfish, thinking otherwise it's just an illusion in my opinion. Only that some people's selfish actions seem to be more socially accepted than the others. And maybe some people have reached the necessary understanding and skills to keep being selfish in a manner that is somehow beneficial to those around them.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineAlma Mistica
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8889831 - 09/07/08 06:52 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Money can be a destructive thing full stop...no matter how it's made.

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OfflineMonger
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: Alma Mistica]
    #8889842 - 09/07/08 07:00 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

i must say

when i play my monopoly with my friends whoever is in the ?Bankers? seat always ends up cheating!.

then when i catch him in the act, "Oh i passed go, i collect 200"


HORSESHIT!

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #8890066 - 09/07/08 08:39 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

You can't see what she is providing? Seriously?

The brokerage buys the tickets from her. It seems like it should be pretty clear what she is providing.

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Offlineackack9000
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: Monger]
    #8890078 - 09/07/08 08:43 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

well. Morals are all well and good. But as they say,
"Don't knock it till you've tried it."
"If you can't beat 'em, join 'em"
It's not like anyone really needs to go to concerts anyways. I mean, I'm sure they have welfare in Canada. She should get on that too.

also, call her a money grabbing whore five times a day!

Quote:

Alma Mistica said:
Money can be a destructive thing full stop...no matter how it's made.




--------------------
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<!--gradient:#FF0808,#00FF04//-->WonderrrrfFulll I"m so fullll. If I was any more full my eyes would turn brown.[/gradient]

Edited by ackack9000 (09/07/08 09:01 AM)

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #8891083 - 09/07/08 02:01 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Not a very big issue here... for 15k a month who gives.  It's just money after all, right? 

It's not pointless, because it is lucrative.  And I honestly have no idea how this is destructive.  It's not like people's lives are being destroyed.

"OMG I can't see this concert, my life is ruined!!" :tongue:

Edited by SyntheticMInd (09/07/08 02:08 PM)

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Invisiblesleepy
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: deranger]
    #8891237 - 09/07/08 02:44 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SyntheticMInd said:
Not a very big issue here... for 15k a month who gives.  It's just money after all, right? 

It's not pointless, because it is lucrative.  And I honestly have no idea how this is destructive.  It's not like people's lives are being destroyed.

"OMG I can't see this concert, my life is ruined!!" :tongue:




yeah but you can see that its not actually a service, its not actually work, and if its not work, its stealing.  thats my opinion.

i had the same problem when i worked for dominos.  i dont think dominos pizza is healthy food.  its bad for people and bad for the planet to have dominos everywhere.  most jobs are not neccessary for either survival or happiness, thats the way it seems to me at least, please prove me wrong.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: sleepy]
    #8891269 - 09/07/08 02:53 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

She was providing the brokers a service by being a middle man between the ticket distributors and them. If she wasn't  providing a service, she wouldn't make money.

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OfflineBoots
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: Redstorm]
    #8891312 - 09/07/08 03:04 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Perhaps, she's selfish. There's nothing wrong with that. As long as she doesn't feel guilt (caused by her) or shame (caused by others) and she's happy with the money she earns, who cares? I'll tell you what's not providing a service: getting your license renewed. Fuck that! There's no point to it other than to make money.

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: sleepy]
    #8891321 - 09/07/08 03:06 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

sleepy said:
yeah but you can see that its not actually a service, its not actually work, and if its not work, its stealing.  thats my opinion.




Really? So just because she is not paying any taxes to the state, she is stealing? :rolleyes:
Interesting concept :strokebeard:
Not to mention that she IS providing with a service, unless you care to demonstrate otherwise.

Quote:


i had the same problem when i worked for dominos.  i dont think dominos pizza is healthy food.  its bad for people and bad for the planet to have dominos everywhere.



Blah blah... pointless, irrational and flawed perception caused by a personal experience that has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand.

Quote:


most jobs are not neccessary for either survival or happiness, thats the way it seems to me at least, please prove me wrong.




Most of them? Have you got any statistics on that?
Anyways, lots of things might appear as unnecessary, but, the fact is, that if they exist and they support themselves there is demand. That being said, it means that they're not so unnecessary after all, isn't it? :wink:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8891428 - 09/07/08 03:23 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Anyways, lots of things might appear as unnecessary, but, the fact is, that if they exist and they support themselves there is demand. That being said, it means that they're not so unnecessary after all, isn't it? :wink:




Sure, they're necessary in our current, modern-day civilization, but it just seems inherently strange to classify telemarketers and such to be just as necessary as farmers in the grand scheme of things.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: deCypher]
    #8891490 - 09/07/08 03:34 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Perhaps, she's selfish. There's nothing wrong with that.

Many people are very selfish.  Does this act make her any more selfish than those who do work 'honestly'?  Most people who do go to school to work and make big bucks are doing it out of selfishness anyways, no matter what kind of work it is.  I don't see why we should hate on one person because her acts don't conform to the system.

Anyways, she could balance that out a bit by giving away some.  Steal from the rich and give to the poor and friendly!

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: deCypher]
    #8891574 - 09/07/08 03:49 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Cypher said:
Sure, they're necessary in our current, modern-day civilization, but it just seems inherently strange to classify telemarketers and such to be just as necessary as farmers in the grand scheme of things.




While I appreciate the humor in such a thought, I don't see what determines which to be more or less necessary rather than arbitrary distinctions being made. The market that materializes due to specialization of tasks regulates itself and, thus, determines which role everything plays. Obviously, there is a role for telemarketers, which, in itself, determines that their existence is necessary, in that moment.

Regarding what you said specifically, you made the classification "just as necessary", when no one had referred to a concept from which an example could be given that telemarketers were just as necessary as farmers. The poster you quoted simply stated that its existence implied demand, which means that it was not unnecessary, not that telemarketers would be just as necessary as farmers.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8891596 - 09/07/08 03:54 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, I agree with you.  I'm simply pointing out that there is a gradation of necessity for jobs out there.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: deCypher]
    #8891619 - 09/07/08 03:58 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I just have a problem with people who make a ton of money for doing relatively nothing when I have to work for mine.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #8891629 - 09/07/08 04:00 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Why does this bother you?  What other people get in terms of money to work ratio should have no affect whatsoever on your own personal satisfaction.  So long as you're happy, and receiving ample compensation for your work, there is no need to envy.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #8891698 - 09/07/08 04:17 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
I just have a problem with people who make a ton of money for doing relatively nothing when I have to work for mine.




That's a personal issue that doesn't say anything about people "who make more money than you", or about their jobs. :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Invisiblesleepy
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: Redstorm]
    #8891733 - 09/07/08 04:23 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
She was providing the brokers a service by being a middle man between the ticket distributors and them. If she wasn't  providing a service, she wouldn't make money.




the distributors sell the ticket to her, and they make a profit.

she in turn sells the ticket at a profit to the brokers, who sell it at a profit to the concert goer. 

distributor/this girl/brokers are all the same, they just take a piece of paper (the ticket) and hand it off to another person while adding money to the final price... how is that an honest living?

it would be the same if i went to the supermarket, bought some food, and then sold it to you for twice the price in the parking lot.

the way the scam works is that she has a computer program that INSTANTLY buys hundreds of tickets as soon as they go on sale.  Ya know how popular shows sell out in online sales within an hour usually?  well, whoever wasn't fast enough has to buy a ticket from a broker that was originally bought in that same online sale by this girl with a computer program, but now the ticket costs 50 bucks more...

Edited by sleepy (09/07/08 04:34 PM)

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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8891737 - 09/07/08 04:24 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
I just have a problem with people who make a ton of money for doing relatively nothing when I have to work for mine.




That's a personal issue that doesn't say anything about people "who make more money than you", or about their jobs. :lol:



Perhaps it is, I dont have to nor am I going to justify it, but I cant really help it if I feel that way, its just how I feel about it.

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #8891772 - 09/07/08 04:30 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

And I am not asking you to change the way you feel or anything.
It's just that, since this is only a personal issue, it doesn't stand as an argument in a debate forum.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Invisiblesleepy
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8891789 - 09/07/08 04:33 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

what isn't a personal issue?

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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8891794 - 09/07/08 04:34 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
And I am not asking you to change the way you feel or anything.
It's just that, since this is only a personal issue, it doesn't stand as an argument in a debate forum.



Im not here to debate or argue, Im just voicing a personal opinion on a situation and I dont see why that is a problem.

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Invisiblesleepy
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #8891805 - 09/07/08 04:36 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

personally, i think everyone should buy tickets directly from the band.  or else just use the honor system and throw money onstage, just do away with the ticket game...

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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #8891809 - 09/07/08 04:37 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
I just have a problem with people who make a ton of money for doing relatively nothing when I have to work for mine.




Sounds like typical bitter old person talk about drug dealers. 

"People who don't work are low life scum! :crankey:"

The way I feel about it, some people get lucky in life.  And the miserable people who work their asses off to sleep will continue to find any excuse to bitch and hate on those who have it easier than them.

It would be nice if everything was a little more equal.  However, bitching wont change anything.

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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: deranger]
    #8891818 - 09/07/08 04:38 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

drug dealing is different.  the law created them and we need our droogs. theres no other way to do it while they are illegal.

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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: Redstorm]
    #8891851 - 09/07/08 04:44 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
She was providing the brokers a service by being a middle man between the ticket distributors and them. If she wasn't  providing a service, she wouldn't make money.




the brokers are just as bad of a scam as she is.  why cant a regular person buy the tickets directly from the band without going thru scalpers? 

i mean, if i had 5000 trillion dollars, i could buy all the food in the world, and since u want to eat, you'd have to buy it from me no matter what i charge u.  dont you all understand metaphors?

one of us is wrong, and its u!

Edited by sleepy (09/07/08 04:48 PM)

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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: sleepy]
    #8891867 - 09/07/08 04:49 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

and i dont wanna argue anymore.  i have my daily scalping to go do.  the stones are coming to town i'm gonna make a fortune

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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: sleepy]
    #8893244 - 09/07/08 08:54 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

why cant a regular person buy the tickets directly from the band




That is absolutely nonsensical. The bands don't own the venues so they can't sell tickets.

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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: Boots]
    #8893620 - 09/07/08 10:08 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

It seems pretty selfish to complain about other people being selfish. As if you are somehow entitled to everyone else being exactly how you want them to be.


--------------------

"It's hard to stay mad, when there's so much beauty in the world." -Lester Burnham

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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8893692 - 09/07/08 10:23 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Really? So just because she is not paying any taxes to the state, she is stealing? :rolleyes:
Interesting concept :strokebeard:



I mentioned in the post that this is perfectly legal in the province of British Columbia, Canada. I assume that she does indeed pay taxes, as do the ticket brokerage websites (in BC at least).

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Anyways, lots of things might appear as unnecessary, but, the fact is, that if they exist and they support themselves there is demand. That being said, it means that they're not so unnecessary after all, isn't it? :wink:



It wasn't really my intention to single out automated ticket buying specifically.

As someone pointed out here it is kinda like if someone were to buy up all the food in a city (ie corner the market) and then sell it back at ten times the price. Of course you don't need these tickets at all like you do food so there are problems with the analogy.

But I remember a documentary on sugar plantations in the Dominican Republic where all the employees actually were in this situation.  They HAD to buy their food from the sugar company at outrageous prices. This kept them just poor enough that they really had no choice but to cut more sugar cane.

There were even strict rules preventing the Haitian workers from having vegetable gardens or getting food elsewhere, even though there was plenty of space for them to grow a garden.

Would you say the same thing about this situation? Maybe there is really a "demand" for inflated food prices for starving workers, because it keeps the workers dependent on the sugar plantation and that means lower production costs for refined sugar, and to an extent consumers benefit because refined sugar is in practically all processed foods.

Although tickets are a totally different kind of product, what the automated ticket buyers and brokerage sites are doing is exactly the same kind of transaction. That is they created a demand by cornering a market.

The ticket that this lady sold is exactly the same as the ticket she bought. The reason she is able to sell at a profit is because so many automated ticket buyers have cornered the market. Because everything is done by computer these technically scalped tickets appear online minutes or even seconds after a venue has been opened.

If the ticket brokerage websites suddenly went poof... everyone would still get their tickets. There has always been sufficient ways to get tickets, either by phone, internet or in person.

There is actually no advantage at all to buying from a brokerage site.

And again I'm not trying to single out automated ticket buying and brokerage sites, but instead this kind of activity in general.

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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #8895215 - 09/08/08 08:13 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

is everyone familiar with the website www.ticketmaster.com?

thats a website where tickets are sold directly to people without a middleman.  at least i think theres no middleman.  anyway, what this girl does is buy 1000 tickets from ticketmaster and the other people with her same computer program do the same thing... that way the tickets sell out in 20 minutes and the tickets that were bought by her and her scalper buddies eventually get sold to brokers and then to the concertgoer at the inflated price.  pretty simple.  if the scalpers didnt buy up all the tickets and then raise the price on them, then people would have just bought the tickets at the lower price from ticketmaster, but they cant because the computer program buys 1000 tickets in 3 seconds.

i dunno how to explain it any better, but i'm willing to try. 

adjust, thats pretty sickening, your story about the sugar plantation.  greeeeeeeeeedy fuckers man.  thats like slavery.

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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: sleepy]
    #8895256 - 09/08/08 08:30 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

If the ticket prices were not at the market price from the brokers, people wouldn't buy them and these schemes wouldn't make money. Therefore, it seems the initial Ticketmaster prices were deflated.

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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #8895257 - 09/08/08 08:31 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

adjust said:
My roommate has a friend who does this. He says that she told him that she making about 15 grand Canadian per month doing this.

She uses a program to buy up thousands of tickets to various shows and concerts in seconds. The program can even read the captcha, which is designed to fool automated programs. The tickets are then sold to ticket brokerage sites on the internet, sometimes for ten times the original price or more.

The problem I have with this is that she does not provide any useful service to humanity. She simply makes money and prevents regular people from attending venues that they want to see.

In BC it is legal to resell tickets so that's how she is able to get away with it. But I mean common, what is this woman providing to anyone? Nothing in my opinion. And there are thousands of activities like this that people do all the time...

At the end of your life when you look back at all you have accomplished, can you really be proud that you annoyed thousands of people unable to afford a scalped ticket? Because every dollar you get is guaranteed to have really pissed someone off because they couldn't afford the ticket price.

Maybe I'm wrong on the issue. Maybe that's just the way humans are, very selfish and willing to do anything if it benefits them. So maybe I should just accept that people are going to do stuff like this because that's who WE are.

Maybe I should join them? But I can't... because money means fuck all for me. I mean I would rather have no money at all than do what she does.




If you look deeply into all the little things we do in life and take for granted and don't really evaluate honestly we are all doing things minute by minute that do not help and usually hinders any positive outcome for the human situation.

In the end it won't matter is my guess. Don't worry about what others do. If you want to worry then worry about what you do.


--------------------
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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #8895375 - 09/08/08 09:10 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I mentioned in the post that this is perfectly legal in the province of British Columbia, Canada. I assume that she does indeed pay taxes, as do the ticket brokerage websites (in BC at least).




Yes, and this is why I this reply wasn't addressed to you, but to sleepy, because he said that what she does is called stealing.
And what I said that, the only way in which it could somehow be called stealing (which is obviously not the case), was if she was not paying taxes to the state when the law stated otherwise. My point of course, was to emphasize that what he was stating didn't make any sense whatsoever, and that he was just being emotional when he said she was stealing.

Quote:

It wasn't really my intention to single out automated ticket buying specifically.




Since you gave it as a specific example, I specifically answered to this particular example, as different situations must be considered in different terms, since more or less important details will differ. What I might keep as a constant is me telling you that feeling nonacceptance towards any situation or idea that you wouldn't normally do doesn't help with anything. If it is for something, it will only make you feel more unhappy and unable to focus on your own life and personal growth.
Another thing is that as long as you think in terms like "this is bad because I could never do that" or anything like that, you will never be able to understand that maybe, even if something seems totally unjustifiable to you, to other people it will make perfect sense because their perception differs, which isn't either right or wrong, but just a fact.

Quote:

As someone pointed out here it is kinda like if someone were to buy up all the food in a city (ie corner the market) and then sell it back at ten times the price. Of course you don't need these tickets at all like you do food so there are problems with the analogy.




Speculation of the market exists ever since the market itself exists. :shrug:
And like I said before, the difference is that some are more socially accepted than others.

Quote:

But I remember a documentary on sugar plantations in the Dominican Republic where all the employees actually were in this situation.  They HAD to buy their food from the sugar company at outrageous prices. This kept them just poor enough that they really had no choice but to cut more sugar cane.




Like I already said, this particular example has nothing to do with the one you gave before. However, I don't see how this is stopping you from being exactly the way you want to be, and adopting the principles you want to adopt. Because, if I remember correctly, the final question that you concluded with was: "Maybe I should join them? But I can't... because money means fuck all for me. I mean I would rather have no money at all than do what she does."
Of course, you're the only one who's limiting himself only to these two outcomes, as if they were the only existent for you, when this is not the case. You don't have to be starving in order to avoid fucking people over, so why say that you would have no money that doing something that your standards do not apply to? :lol:


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And never known your face
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And searched this human race
Here is true peace
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8895578 - 09/08/08 10:19 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Since you gave it as a specific example, I specifically answered to this particular example, as different situations must be considered in different terms, since more or less important details will differ.



Quote:

In Economics, a monopoly (from Greek monos , alone or single + polein , to sell) exists when a specific individual or enterprise has sufficient control over a particular product or service to determine significantly the terms on which other individuals shall have access to it.[1] Monopolies are thus characterized by a lack of economic competition for the good or service that they provide and a lack of viable substitute goods.[2] The verb "monopolize" refers to the process by which a firm gains persistently greater market share than what is expected under perfect competition.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly

I think that both (scalping tickets on a massive scale and using food to control workers) are examples of a monopoly.

Redstorm makes the point that in some cases ticketmaster or any other liscensed seller provides tickets at prices below that which the natural market forces of supply and demand would set. I agree with this.

I also think that the artists and managers and whoever else is involved in setting up a venue are at least partially in it to make money and will set ticket prices to make the largest profit... but it is difficult to predict the demand for any venue so you will get a range of ticket prices. Some will be below market value, some above and a few might get it right.

What the online ticket brokers are doing is monopolizing the supply of tickets to fix, raise and control ticket prices. This is different than perfect competition where all participants have equal access to a product or service, because most people on this planet cannot write any program, let alone one that can decode a capcha and fill out a credit card form at the rate of thousands per second.

In the case of the Haitian cane workers, which there are some half a million, the ability to monopolize the food supply of the workers by their employers in order to control them is also an example of a monopoly.

On that level both situations are similar, they are both monopolies I think. I don't think it is unreasonable to say this.

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
What I might keep as a constant is me telling you that feeling nonacceptance towards any situation or idea that you wouldn't normally do doesn't help with anything.



I can think of dozens of situations where not accepting a situation has helped. Think of womens suffrage or the civil rights movement. Good examples of people not accepting the situation or idea prevalent at the time and then doing something that helped the situation for them.

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
If it is for something, it will only make you feel more unhappy and unable to focus on your own life and personal growth.

Another thing is that as long as you think in terms like "this is bad because I could never do that" or anything like that, you will never be able to understand that maybe, even if something seems totally unjustifiable to you, to other people it will make perfect sense because their perception differs, which isn't either right or wrong, but just a fact.



I completely understand that they have a different point of view that differs from my own. What I don't understand is why or how they came to that viewpoint. You are right that this makes me unhappy...

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
However, I don't see how this is stopping you from being exactly the way you want to be, and adopting the principles you want to adopt. Because, if I remember correctly, the final question that you concluded with was: "Maybe I should join them? But I can't... because money means fuck all for me. I mean I would rather have no money at all than do what she does."
Of course, you're the only one who's limiting himself only to these two outcomes, as if they were the only existent for you, when this is not the case. You don't have to be starving in order to avoid fucking people over, so why say that you would have no money that doing something that your standards do not apply to? :lol:



That's not what I said. I said that I would rather have no money at all than do what she does. That's a lot different than saying: "I must have no money at all to ensure that I am not fucking anyone over."

And what Icelander said... probably right. It is so hard to know the consequences of your actions. It also kind of bothers me that the thread has degenerated to a discussion on whether ticketmaster is setting prices too low...

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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #8896198 - 09/08/08 01:04 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I really don't know how widely spread is this thing that she's doing, and I think it is really hard to determine in which way this is influencing the market. However, with or without this thread, there will always be other things that will influence the price of the tickets and how accurate or inaccurate they are.
What I am wondering about is how can you tell if this whole issue has only negative influences, or mostly negative influences, and, most important, what do you understand by negative influences? What's causing one person's harm, is also causing a good situation for someone else, so, in the end, isn't it all arbitrary?
What do you understand by perfect competition and equal chances? The idea that equal chances might somehow exist is illusory in my opinion, it's something that only exists in the minds of those that consider things only on the surface.
Some web sites might be more popular than the other simply because they invest money into a smarter form of advertisement, while others might offer better services.

Quote:

most people on this planet cannot write any program, let alone one that can decode a capcha and fill out a credit card form at the rate of thousands per second.




So just because most people don't have access to this kind of programs, is what makes this whole business wrong in your opinion? And if everybody did that, would you stop consider it so selfish?
Most people don't have the means to make their own bands, does it mean that it is unfair that the bands who exist are enjoying all success and money?

Quote:

I can think of dozens of situations where not accepting a situation has helped. Think of womens suffrage or the civil rights movement. Good examples of people not accepting the situation or idea prevalent at the time and then doing something that helped the situation for them.




Are you sure that it was non-acceptance that made things move and chance?
A state of non-acceptance = to a state of denial; denial of one's current situation,refusal of the fact that a certain aspect of life is the way it is, or irrationally trying to change it without understanding the way it works first, and what's causing it to be this way.
Not submitting to one's stupid expectations and rules is one thing, and it is totally different than not accepting it.
What might have slowed the process of this movement could have been non acceptance itself.

Quote:

I completely understand that they have a different point of view that differs from my own. What I don't understand is why or how they came to that viewpoint. You are right that this makes me unhappy...




This is exactly what I am talking about. Maybe the reason why you can't understand what determined them to think like that is because you have too many hare feeling and pre-conceived ideas about the whole situation. This is also the reason why I am advocating acceptance instead of automatically dismissing a point of view. :wink:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
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Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Offlineeve69
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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8900741 - 09/09/08 07:02 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Well, the joy of having a real skill is that it's useful. A scalper outlives their usefulness at some point, but a craftsperson and artist, and all professions which provide some real trade have proven their usefulness to others through history.  So also there have always been hustlers and they do actually provide a service by getting point A to point B at times.


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Re: Doing pointless/destructive things for money [Re: eve69]
    #8970181 - 09/22/08 09:15 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I hustle all the time... JUST KIDDING.
every day I'm hustling
every day I'm hustling
hustle
yeah. That's me.


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