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Offlineisaacein
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Errors and false statements in Strassman's "Spirit Molecule"
    #8868814 - 09/02/08 11:37 PM (6 years, 7 hours ago)

I'm in the process of reading this book and so far I've stumbled upon a couple of things that set off my bullshit detector.

First off, the human body, as far as I know, has never been demonstrated to contain DMT. Strassman states that it does, without giving sources, which is contrary to the scientific style and method. Pretty much everyone that I've heard saying that the brain contains DMT used "The Spirit Molecule" as their source.

He also says on page 39 that, following research in the mid 50's, "The presence and function of serotonin in the brain and in animal behavior clinched its role as the first known neurotransmitter.", which is false. Acetylcholine was the first known neurotransmitter. Otto Loewi got the 1936 Nobel Prize of medicine for this discovery, along with Henry Dale who first identified it in 1914.

Any others? Criticism of the book? So far I find it an interesting read, but with little scientific value. I definitely wouldn't consider it a new Bible like some people here.


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Invisiblethedudenj
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Re: Errors and false statements in Strassman's "Spirit Molecule" [Re: isaacein]
    #8868830 - 09/02/08 11:39 PM (6 years, 7 hours ago)

thats funny its not my bible lol.


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"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Errors and false statements in Strassman's "Spirit Molecule" [Re: isaacein]
    #8868847 - 09/02/08 11:42 PM (6 years, 7 hours ago)

Barker SA, Monti JA and Christian ST (1981). N,N-Dimethyltryptamine: An endogenous hallucinogen. In International Review of Neurobiology, vol 22, pp. 83-110; Academic Press, Inc.

DMT is present not only in humans but certain mammals.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Errors and false statements in Strassman's "Spirit Molecule" [Re: isaacein]
    #8868853 - 09/02/08 11:43 PM (6 years, 7 hours ago)

But to answer your question, it's definitely an interesting book, and the subjective accounts of people's experiences are fascinating.  Strassman seems to go off the deep end with speculation, though... I mean, DMT entering the fetus 49 days after conception and bringing the soul with it?


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OfflineMad_Larkin
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Re: Errors and false statements in Strassman's "Spirit Molecule" [Re: deCypher]
    #8868867 - 09/02/08 11:45 PM (6 years, 7 hours ago)

Can someone provide a decent source for the claim that DMT is present in the body? Because if there isn't a reliable source then that is one huge piece of misinformation.


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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: Errors and false statements in Strassman's "Spirit Molecule" [Re: thedudenj]
    #8868873 - 09/02/08 11:45 PM (6 years, 7 hours ago)

Quote:

First off, the human body, as far as I know, has never been demonstrated to contain DMT




I thought it was understood that this speculation was a result of finding DMT in blood tests of those who hadn't used it before. It certainly begs the question: Where'd it come from?

I'd find a source but I've got pressing homework.


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Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...


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Offlineisaacein
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Re: Errors and false statements in Strassman's "Spirit Molecule" [Re: deCypher]
    #8868875 - 09/02/08 11:46 PM (6 years, 7 hours ago)

Quote:

The Cypher said:
But to answer your question, it's definitely an interesting book, and the subjective accounts of people's experiences are fascinating.  Strassman seems to go off the deep end with speculation, though... I mean, DMT entering the fetus 49 days after conception and bringing the soul with it?




You can be sure I will laugh extremely hard when I stumble upon this passage.

Thanks for the source. Will check it out. Have you got the article in question? If you're right, Wikipedia is in need of some updating.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Errors and false statements in Strassman's "Spirit Molecule" [Re: isaacein]
    #8868893 - 09/02/08 11:47 PM (6 years, 7 hours ago)

Pubmed has it.  And what part of Wikipedia needs updating with respect to DMT?


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OfflineMad_Larkin
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Re: Errors and false statements in Strassman's "Spirit Molecule" [Re: deCypher]
    #8868910 - 09/02/08 11:49 PM (6 years, 7 hours ago)



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Offlineisaacein
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Re: Errors and false statements in Strassman's "Spirit Molecule" [Re: Crasher]
    #8868918 - 09/02/08 11:51 PM (6 years, 7 hours ago)

Well, on this page, Erowid has a whole series of references under "Presence in Mammals". However none of the articles are available. I would like to actually read one of those studies. Until then I stay sceptic.

It would be quite an incredible thing, if it were true. And it would certainly make me more eager to finally do something with the half pound of mimosa hostilis rootbark that's been in my bedroom for a couple of months. :laugh:


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Errors and false statements in Strassman's "Spirit Molecule" [Re: isaacein]
    #8868933 - 09/02/08 11:53 PM (6 years, 7 hours ago)

Any scientific article you could ever want to read is usually available if your university cooperates with Pubmed so you can access the articles for free.  Also, your university library should have a bunch of stuff if they're well-stocked and up to date.


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Offlineenesi
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Re: Errors and false statements in Strassman's "Spirit Molecule" [Re: deCypher]
    #8869083 - 09/03/08 12:24 AM (6 years, 7 hours ago)

Here is an article regarding DMT being present in the human body. These findings were around the mid 60's. With further testing done later on of course.
http://dmt-nexus.com/doc/endogenous%20anxiolytic%20DMT.pdf

In this article on page two, you will find your answer...
Quote:

In a short half-page report
in Nature, Franzen and Gross [8] reported the presence
of N,N-dimethyltryptamine in human blood
(8 · 109 g/mL) and urine (4 · 105 g/24 h).
Subsequent research found these levels to be too
high and that the average concentrations in normal
subjects tended to be around 5 · 1010 g/mL in
blood [12] and 4 · 107 g/24 h in urine [23]. (It
should be noted that the threshold dose to produce
subjective effects in humans is about 5 · 105
g/kg, which leads to peak blood concentrations
of 1 · 108 g/mL [18,24]). After Franzen and
Gross’ discovery, psychiatric researchers reported
increases in the urinary excretion of DMT in schizophrenic
patients [12–15]. Murray et al. [11] found
a statistically significant increase in the levels of
DMT in the urine of schizophrenics (1 · 106 g/
24 h), but found that not all schizophrenic patients
excreted increased amounts of DMT. The authors
concluded that DMT did not play a causal role in
schizophrenia, but could be an intermediary factor,
exacerbating certain features of psychosis.
Other research proved inconclusive and results between
studies were often contradictory with either
no correlation between schizophrenia and excreted
DMT, or no statistically significant difference







As for the fetus statement, he was referring to a passage from "the tibetan book of the dead". This was not a quote of strassman's at all.

In the passage, the tibetan's wrote that upon reincarnation, the soul is delivered unto the new body on the 49th day of conception. Strassman stated that also on the 49th day, the sex of the baby is able to be determined, and also that is about the same time the pineal gland is formed in the brain. He offered it to the reader not as proof of anything, just a possible coincidence? or perhaps something deeper?

I do not see how you assume people treat it like some sort of "new bible". We are lucky to even have this book, and lucky that Strassman was allowed to perform human trials with administering DMT to his subjects. If you read his book, you would have seen that nobody else in the scientific community wanted anything to do with his research. It's a huge grey area, these psychedelics. And the majority of people wanted no connection to it at all.

I think you may wanna have that bullshit detector of yours looked at. Seems to need calibrated a good bit :wink:


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: Errors and false statements in Strassman's "Spirit Molecule" [Re: isaacein]
    #8869104 - 09/03/08 12:28 AM (6 years, 7 hours ago)

Quote:


First off, the human body, as far as I know, has never been demonstrated to contain DMT




how about nobel prize winner Julius Axelrod discovering it in human brain tissue?.

you seriously could have just googled.
i thought this was common knowledge that its fact that its in humans, mammals, reptiles, and thousands of plants. who knows how many fish or insects might contain it. the rest about the pineal and the soul ect ect is speculation.

you can go ahead and brew your ayahuasca, now.


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Offlinemaysrome
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Re: Errors and false statements in Strassman's "Spirit Molecule" [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #8869149 - 09/03/08 12:38 AM (6 years, 6 hours ago)

not reading the book myself, all the above points do seem to make sense to me. such as the little ditty about the book of death and the 49th day.
very interesting indeed.


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Offlineisaacein
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Re: Errors and false statements in Strassman's "Spirit Molecule" [Re: enesi]
    #8869152 - 09/03/08 12:39 AM (6 years, 6 hours ago)

It's always in the process of getting calibrated! But hey, I asked, and did not state. I'm glad if this is indeed true, as it's truly fascinating.

At least it's not my belief detector that's in need of calibration :rolleyes:

Five shrooms to all those who gave info.


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Offlineisaacein
exp(ix) = cosx + isinx


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Re: Errors and false statements in Strassman's "Spirit Molecule" [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #8869169 - 09/03/08 12:43 AM (6 years, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
Quote:


First off, the human body, as far as I know, has never been demonstrated to contain DMT




how about nobel prize winner Julius Axelrod discovering it in human brain tissue?.

you seriously could have just googled.
i thought this was common knowledge that its fact that its in humans, mammals, reptiles, and thousands of plants. who knows how many fish or insects might contain it. the rest about the pineal and the soul ect ect is speculation.

you can go ahead and brew your ayahuasca, now. 




Oh, and I do not equate "ideas frequently stated on the Shroomery" to "common knowledge".

I'm not all that great at Googling and I can't see where you fond that this guy discovered first DMT in the brain... help please?


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Offlineenesi
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Re: Errors and false statements in Strassman's "Spirit Molecule" [Re: maysrome]
    #8869193 - 09/03/08 12:47 AM (6 years, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

maysrome said:
not reading the book myself, all the above points do seem to make sense to me. such as the little ditty about the book of death and the 49th day.
very interesting indeed.



It's all about the Bardo's of death and shit, and how there are various stages of the death/rebirth process. An extreme dose of dmt is IMO the furthest you can go, and still be able to come back from. I've found myself in an eternal black void, as if flying, and seeing an opening appear below me. Only to stop short, and find myself being pulled back away from it from where i came.

Some very eerie coincidences about all that bardo business, whether it's true or not.


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Offlineenesi
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Re: Errors and false statements in Strassman's "Spirit Molecule" [Re: isaacein]
    #8869203 - 09/03/08 12:49 AM (6 years, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

isaacein said:
Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
Quote:


First off, the human body, as far as I know, has never been demonstrated to contain DMT




how about nobel prize winner Julius Axelrod discovering it in human brain tissue?.

you seriously could have just googled.
i thought this was common knowledge that its fact that its in humans, mammals, reptiles, and thousands of plants. who knows how many fish or insects might contain it. the rest about the pineal and the soul ect ect is speculation.

you can go ahead and brew your ayahuasca, now. 




Oh, and I do not equate "ideas frequently stated on the Shroomery" to "common knowledge".

I'm not all that great at Googling and I can't see where you fond that this guy discovered first DMT in the brain... help please?



Axlerod is mentioned in the article i linked to, you'll have to read it to get the specifics though.


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Offlinemaysrome
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Re: Errors and false statements in Strassman's "Spirit Molecule" [Re: enesi]
    #8869210 - 09/03/08 12:50 AM (6 years, 6 hours ago)

sounds very interesting. i have a few theories on it myself, i've posted before. i'm sure i'm not the first by no means to think of it though. what is the exact title of the book in question?


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Offlineenesi
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Re: Errors and false statements in Strassman's "Spirit Molecule" [Re: maysrome]
    #8869229 - 09/03/08 12:56 AM (6 years, 6 hours ago)



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