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 AdoreChampignons
Mycophilic One
Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 337
Loc: Seti Alpha 5
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 What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? 
#8848051 - 08/29/08 05:19 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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People here tend to be wonderfully open minded. I was wondering what religious beleifs do you follow? For myself, I have a hard time picking just one. Therefore, I left it open for you to pick your top three religious beliefs. Let's see which ones are most popular among shroomers.
Mycophilic One
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There is no such thing as a dumb question. There are just curious people trying to learn something new.
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Baeosistine
ڜڭۑۄڴڡڟژۻۼئٹ
 
Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 902
Loc: England
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I wanted to vote 'none'
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jesus
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AdoreChampignons
Mycophilic One
Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 337
Loc: Seti Alpha 5
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 Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Baeosistine]
#8852134 - 08/30/08 02:41 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Baeosistine said:
I wanted to vote 'none'
Wouldn't the term Atheist apply then?
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There is no such thing as a dumb question. There are just curious people trying to learn something new.
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Well, thats tricky... because though atheism is not religion, it is faith. And none implies no faith.
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Cameron
Too Many Words
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 4,437
Loc: Canada
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: DieCommie]
#8852284 - 08/30/08 03:22 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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I chose 'other' but I'm not sure if agnosticism is even considered a religion. 
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 Serdal
Stranger
Registered: 09/29/07
Posts: 521
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: DieCommie]
#8853233 - 08/30/08 07:48 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Well, thats tricky... because though atheism is not religion, it is faith. And none implies no faith.
I see atheism more factual than believing in god. Christianity is based on faith and only faith. Although, I did not vote for atheism, I used to be one.
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*insert signature here*
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NIMH
MadCap
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 807
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 4 days, 12 hours
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Baeosistine]
#8860372 - 09/01/08 02:50 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Baeosistine said:
I wanted to vote 'none'
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I must not Fear. Fear is the mindkiller . Fear is the little-death that
brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over and
through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. ONLY I WILL REMAIN.
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AdoreChampignons
Mycophilic One
Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 337
Loc: Seti Alpha 5
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Serdal]
#8860391 - 09/01/08 02:54 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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From looking at the results, that's an interesting distribution pattern that's forming. In fear of affecting the results, I didn't want to mention this before but the order that the various religions are listed in is also the order of general world popularity. Christianity was listed as the most popular while Satanism was the least popular. The distribution pattern doesn't quite match up with world popularity. Very interesting indeed.
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There is no such thing as a dumb question. There are just curious people trying to learn something new.
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Well, the shroomery certainly isnt a random sampling of the world population.
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AdoreChampignons
Mycophilic One
Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 337
Loc: Seti Alpha 5
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: DieCommie]
#8861549 - 09/01/08 06:18 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Well, the shroomery certainly isnt a random sampling of the world population.
How very true. The subject matter of mushrooms itself draws a certain group of people as it repels others.
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There is no such thing as a dumb question. There are just curious people trying to learn something new.
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junkyardgod
Stranger
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 323
Last seen: 4 months, 6 days
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Vikings - that's all I have to say.
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aint no blood in my body, its liquid soul in my vein
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QuantumReality
Entranced in a Fractal
Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 2,876
Loc: In a Box 
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: junkyardgod]
#8885460 - 09/06/08 08:30 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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"i follow the vulcans" 
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I've eaten the Sun so my tongue has been burnt of the taste...
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Phish_Dude
steppin' into yesterday
Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 5,745
Loc: secret tweeker pad 
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: QuantumReality]
#8915099 - 09/11/08 10:50 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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i voted Christian, Hinduism, and pagan interestingly enough. would've picked a native american based if it was up there.
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Phish_Dude]
#8920337 - 09/12/08 09:16 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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The native americans had lots of different religions. They were not and are not culturally homogeneous.
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Phish_Dude
steppin' into yesterday
Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 5,745
Loc: secret tweeker pad
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: DieCommie]
#8940717 - 09/16/08 09:34 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
The native americans had lots of different religions. They were not and are not culturally homogeneous.
yeah I meant one of the many sry
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DarkLiberty
Ethereal Eater of Souls
Registered: 09/08/08
Posts: 69
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Santero.
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"All Bibles or sacred codes have been the causes of the following Errors:
1. That Man has two real existing principles: Viz: a Body & a Soul.
2. That Energy, call'd Evil, is alone from the Body; & that Reason, call'd Good, is alone from the Soul.
3. That God will torment Man in Eternity for following his energies.
But the following Contraries are to these are True:
1. Man has no Body distinct from his Soul; for that call'd Body is a portion of the Soul discern'd by the five Senses, the chief inlets of Soul in this age.
2. Energy is the only life, and is from the Body; and Reason is the bound or outward circumference of Energy.
3. Energy is Eternal Delight."
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PsilocybinLuvin
PsilocybinLuvin
Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 258
Loc: marijuanaville
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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 Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: DarkLiberty]
#8958385 - 09/20/08 12:41 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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umm...i couldn't vote.
AGNOSTIC.
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Today young men on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather.
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tayrawr
the only.
Registered: 10/01/08
Posts: 14
Loc: USA
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: PsilocybinLuvin]
#9013658 - 10/01/08 04:27 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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i'm agnostic.
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i'm not in denial. i'm just very selective about the reality i choose to accept.
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Nexion
Seeker
Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 648
Last seen: 6 months, 3 days
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: tayrawr]
#9081091 - 10/15/08 01:51 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
tayrawr said:
i'm agnostic.
Same
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Beat Bop Solo
back on board
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 8
Loc: New England
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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Always figured the Shroomery would be chock-full o Pastafarians...
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teefizzle
Flwr Pwr
Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 14,356
Loc: Necropolis
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Beat Bop Solo]
#9433775 - 12/15/08 01:20 AM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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im agnostic 
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod
Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,580
Loc: Snoqualmie, Wa.
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Quote:
What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow?
my own.
I have a weird belief system...
I believe that there is a God(1) that created everything...
and I believe that he is the same God that all these so called religions fight over...
so they are basically fighting in vane.
I also believe that there have been many messengers for God, over the ages...
hence the different religions.
I don't think there is such a thing as being the only way...
as in one religion is the right way or the only way.
I do believe that God created Hallucinogenic Mushrooms...
so we can become more Spiritual and become a better person.
I don't push my beliefs onto other people...
and I don't like it when others try and push their beliefs onto me.
So I usually just stay out of these kind of conversations and debates.
I tell my Children to follow their own path and find what they believe in, for themselves.
And I hope that my fellow Shroomerites will follow their own path too.
tc
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Laterz, Road
Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!
Brainiac said:
PM the names with  on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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ellenallien
lumpy space princess
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 8,142
Loc: Sanriotown, Harmonyland
Last seen: 20 days, 14 hours
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Roadkill]
#9477500 - 12/22/08 12:26 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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ṣūfīsm تصوّف 
as much as i can, we are only human 
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dstark
Manifesting Minds
Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 3,734
Loc: 
Last seen: 7 days, 1 hour
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Beat Bop Solo]
#9492731 - 12/25/08 10:44 AM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Atheist 
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What is a mind, if not something to be messed with? What is consciousness, if not a state to be altered?
~I Feel  at Home~
.:SanPedro Preparation:. 
.:HashBrownies Preparation:. 
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spacemonkey69
Stranger
Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 458
Last seen: 5 months, 6 hours
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Roadkill]
#9492739 - 12/25/08 10:49 AM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Roadkill said:
Quote:
What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow?
my own.
I have a weird belief system...
I believe that there is a God(1) that created everything...
and I believe that he is the same God that all these so called religions fight over...
so they are basically fighting in vane.
I also believe that there have been many messengers for God, over the ages...
hence the different religions.
I don't think there is such a thing as being the only way...
as in one religion is the right way or the only way.
I do believe that God created Hallucinogenic Mushrooms...
so we can become more Spiritual and become a better person.
I don't push my beliefs onto other people...
and I don't like it when others try and push their beliefs onto me.
So I usually just stay out of these kind of conversations and debates.
I tell my Children to follow their own path and find what they believe in, for themselves.
And I hope that my fellow Shroomerites will follow their own path too.
tc
Roadkillism
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"If you take a psychedelic,and aren't afraid you've done too much, you haven't done enough."
Terence Mckenna
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americalovesfear
MagentaPlacenta
Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 4,642
Loc: that place
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: spacemonkey69]
#9807916 - 02/16/09 03:00 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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haha-roadkillism. sounds fun.
"religion is the opiate of the masses." jesus said that.
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Spiders on drugs
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Shinzano
Monkey
Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 88
Loc: honah lee
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Beat Bop Solo]
#9815325 - 02/17/09 06:27 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Wheres JEDI ? 
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fltdriver82
Bow to your Mushroom God
Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 1,271
Loc: On a trip
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Beat Bop Solo]
#9818609 - 02/18/09 09:00 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Beat Bop Solo said:
Always figured the Shroomery would be chock-full o Pastafarians...
Man is that for real. Dude I went to that site. Church of the flying spaghetti monster? I'm not one to bash other peoples beliefs, I actually will chase off any one knocking at my door to spread "insert religion here" with a fully loaded paintball gun. I don't try to convince anyone what I believe in and I expect the same in return. Back to my ? though, is that for real. I have never heard of it. Though the graph about the global temperature relating to the number of pirates is a damn good argument. IMO.
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Moniker_Mike
Mycophile
Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 105
Loc: New England
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 Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: junkyardgod]
#9822471 - 02/18/09 11:01 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
junkyardgod said:
Vikings - that's all I have to say.
VIKE 4 LYFE
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I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. - HST
MONIKER COLLECTIVE SHIRTS AVAILABLE VIA MYSOTI.COM
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Thor
Anti-Theist OVERLORD
Registered: 08/12/98
Posts: 9,868
Loc: Calgary, Canada
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Moniker_Mike]
#9842182 - 02/22/09 02:13 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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NOT FUCKING BELIEF IN STUPID 2000 YR OLD FAIRTALES.
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Carcass
Polarized
Registered: 02/15/09
Posts: 403
Last seen: 1 month, 22 hours
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Beat Bop Solo]
#9843301 - 02/22/09 01:24 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Agnostic atheizm.
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Arkady
Stranger
Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 330
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Beat Bop Solo]
#9907583 - 03/04/09 12:55 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Odinism though I have been studying Cosmotheism.
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Wapakz
1000 Needles
Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 1,912
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Beat Bop Solo]
#9907602 - 03/04/09 12:59 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Agnostic, or "other".
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Cult of veda
Galactic wave ryder
Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 48
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Beat Bop Solo]
#9948031 - 03/10/09 10:00 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Shinto, read the book!
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GROWIN IN NUMBERS...
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Monkee
Stranger
Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 596
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Beat Bop Solo]
#10022003 - 03/22/09 08:57 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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i dont believe in god, and i think its stupid to
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teeter
Mindfucked
Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 1,081
Loc: Philadelphia PA
Last seen: 10 days, 7 hours
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Beat Bop Solo]
#10033580 - 03/24/09 05:55 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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rofl he left jews off the poll
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"If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things through narrow chinks of his cavern." - William Blake
"Psychedelics helped me to escape.. albeit momentarily.. from the prison of my mind. It over-rode the habit patterns of thought and I was able to taste innocence again. Looking at sensations freshly without the conceptual overly was very profound." - Ram Das
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Moniker_Mike
Mycophile
Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 105
Loc: New England
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 Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: teeter]
#10033681 - 03/24/09 06:11 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
teeter said:
rofl he left jews off the poll
Erm.. The Jewish religion is called Judaism, and it's on the poll.
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I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. - HST
MONIKER COLLECTIVE SHIRTS AVAILABLE VIA MYSOTI.COM
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fltdriver82
Bow to your Mushroom God
Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 1,271
Loc: On a trip
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Moniker_Mike]
#10035141 - 03/24/09 09:55 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moniker_Mike said:
Quote:
teeter said:
rofl he left jews off the poll
Erm.. The Jewish religion is called Judaism, and it's on the poll.
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Gretchenmeister
Starbeing/Psilocybin Savant
Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 590
Loc: From the Stars
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Beat Bop Solo]
#10061253 - 03/28/09 07:56 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ima Gretchenologist.
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What's wrong with folks?
Point your IRC client to irc.mushies.org, port 6667, #cultivation and #shroomery for live chat with like minded hobbyists and connoisseurs.
Mush Porn
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Silversoul
Holon
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 22,562
Loc: Mostly harmless
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Teleological Existential Agnostic: I believe there is an all-loving, omniscient force that permeates the entire universe, except certain parts of New Jersey.
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TODAY
Battletoad
Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Silversoul]
#10085139 - 04/01/09 04:38 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Teleological Existential Agnostic: I believe there is an all-loving, omniscient force that permeates the entire universe, except certain parts of New Jersey.
that's pretty funny. i'm all about agnosticism but i don't believe there is a cognisant force that oversees or least of all orchestrates the chaos that is this universe.
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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.
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virus1824
Mr Mushroom
Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 1,741
Loc: Europe
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: TODAY]
#10114715 - 04/06/09 06:13 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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im all in for the flying spaghetti monster!
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A weekend wasted is never a wasted weekend
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: virus1824]
#10121207 - 04/07/09 04:32 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
virus1824 said:
im all in for the flying spaghetti monster!
pffft... thats the most falsifiable of all gods.
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virus1824
Mr Mushroom
Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 1,741
Loc: Europe
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: DieCommie]
#10121220 - 04/07/09 04:41 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
pffft... thats the most falsifiable of all gods.
There all bullshit. none beats the bullshit content of the other one and visa versa.
except for the spaghetti monster! i see spaghetti everyday which is all the proof i need. its damn real i tell ya! its out there!
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A weekend wasted is never a wasted weekend
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ggoth
stranger in the garden
Registered: 02/15/09
Posts: 54
Loc: in front of PC
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Beat Bop Solo]
#10205416 - 04/21/09 05:44 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don`t like to follow one path it`s better to take the best off all religion`s. But if you do that you can`t be 100% Buddhist and it`s stupid to pick ideas that preclude each other. I voted for Atheism, Buddhism, and Neo-Paganism. I know its strange but I find a "sober" view on the other ones, when i think of them as a Atheist. Atheism for me is something different form "not believing in anything". I don`t think that i can stick in one domain. "Only the death fish flow with the midstream" - it`s out of context but Christians like to use that dictum.
I don`t wanted to offend anybody.
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AbortionVictim
Anal Intruder
Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 60
Loc: East of the Sun, West of ...
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Beat Bop Solo]
#10205441 - 04/21/09 06:08 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey you forgot Jedi. Its a recognized religion in england... I think
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AbortionVictim
Anal Intruder
Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 60
Loc: East of the Sun, West of ...
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: AbortionVictim]
#10205447 - 04/21/09 06:12 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Check that. Jedi is recognized as a religion in many countries. I just ranked fourth highest in England is all.
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doodoomaster
Life's still good
Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 393
Loc: The united states of Gene...
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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anyone even slightly interested in this subject should read the book "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist" by frank turek
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For all you passive aggressive types. Fuck you, kind of.
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GhengisKhan
Stranger
Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 101
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Can I pick atheist three times?
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"When any answer is possible all answers are meaningless" --Isaac Asimov
"Pour me a drink so I can refuse to toast" --Lorie Moore
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curtlow
Stranger
Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 7
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: DieCommie]
#10363646 - 05/19/09 12:03 PM (4 years, 6 days ago) |
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Atheism is a lack of faith, religion, and god. (we don't give a shit)
faith is hope and desire mistaken for knowledge.
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doodoomaster
Life's still good
Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 393
Loc: The united states of Gene...
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: curtlow]
#10364957 - 05/19/09 05:48 PM (4 years, 6 days ago) |
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Does anyone know where the universe came from?
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For all you passive aggressive types. Fuck you, kind of.
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GhengisKhan
Stranger
Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 101
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: curtlow]
#10366829 - 05/19/09 11:27 PM (4 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
curtlow said:
Atheism is a lack of faith, religion, and god. (we don't give a shit)
faith is hope and desire mistaken for knowledge.
Atheism is not about not giving a shit. And it is not an outright denial of the existence of God either. It is simply the logical default. I'm not saying there is no God, I'm just saying it has the same likelihood as any other claim that is unfalsifiable and is not supported by evidence, such as that the world was created an instant ago complete with memories, history, and organization. In fact, atheism only exists to counter those who do believe in God. If nobody was religious, we would all be atheists, but we wouldn't need a word for it, just like we don't have a word for people who don't believe that lobsters are the reincarnation of Ghandi.
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"When any answer is possible all answers are meaningless" --Isaac Asimov
"Pour me a drink so I can refuse to toast" --Lorie Moore
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doodoomaster
Life's still good
Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 393
Loc: The united states of Gene...
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: GhengisKhan]
#10367535 - 05/20/09 02:13 AM (4 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
GhengisKhan said:
Quote:
curtlow said:
Atheism is a lack of faith, religion, and god. (we don't give a shit)
faith is hope and desire mistaken for knowledge.
Atheism is not about not giving a shit. And it is not an outright denial of the existence of God either. It is simply the logical default. I'm not saying there is no God, I'm just saying it has the same likelihood as any other claim that is unfalsifiable and is not supported by evidence, such as that the world was created an instant ago complete with memories, history, and organization. In fact, atheism only exists to counter those who do believe in God. If nobody was religious, we would all be atheists, but we wouldn't need a word for it, just like we don't have a word for people who don't believe that lobsters are the reincarnation of Ghandi.
That has to be the most unbiased explanation of atheism I have ever seen. Many atheist I meet are very closed minded to the thought of a creator and so one sided I wonder if they have ever read for themselves or just what some guy in the new age bar down the street said.
There is much evidence that Jesus was here and that he rose from the grave.
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RupturedHernia
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: doodoomaster]
#10374356 - 05/21/09 06:37 AM (4 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
doodoomaster said:
There is much evidence that Jesus was here and that he rose from the grave.
Where?
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Society
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I worship pizza.
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doodoomaster
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Quote:
RupturedHernia said:
Quote:
doodoomaster said:
There is much evidence that Jesus was here and that he rose from the grave.
Where?
This man has a pretty good write up about how most believers in Jesus feel.
It's fairly biased but makes points that are historically truthful.
from this page:http://www.wcg.org/lit/disc/11evidence.htm
Christians, Jews, and atheists agree that Jesus was crucified and buried. The crucial belief for Christianity is that he was also resurrected — as evidence that he is the Son of God, the teacher of truth, the door and the way of salvation, the firstfruits of the resurrection. This article presents the evidence for his resurrection.
First, most historians agree that the early disciples believed that Jesus had risen from the dead. Although at Jesus' death they were dejected and fearful, they were soon dramatically different: They risked their lives repeatedly to preach about Jesus. Even Christians in the second and third centuries (as well as many today) put their lives on the line to preach about Jesus. Of course, erroneous ideas abound, and people sometimes give their lives for erroneous ideas — but only if they think they are true. People do not put their lives on the line for things they don't believe. The disciples never wavered in their belief in Jesus' resurrection. None of them ever changed their story under the pain of persecution. Even agnostic historians will admit that the disciples believed that Jesus had been resurrected.
Now we can consider how dozens of disciples could come to such a conviction. Perhaps the first possibility we could consider is that Jesus didn't really die. Perhaps it wasn't really him on the cross. Maybe Judas led the soldiers to the wrong man, or a substitution was somehow made at the last minute (as Muslims believe). Is it possible that the disciples were in such a state of shock that they did not recognize the substitute on the cross, nor when they took him down to anoint and wrap his body for burial? Was it then a coincidence that the tomb somehow became empty, and his disciples thought he had reappeared? No, all this stretches the imagination so much that this is not seriously considered.
Well, then, perhaps Jesus did not die on the cross — he just went into a coma, and then later revived. Is this a plausible historical possibility? Would Roman soldiers botch a crucifixion and take down a body without noticing that the person was still alive? Would this severely injured person then be able to revive, unwrap his own grave clothes, roll away his own tombstone, and convince his disciples that he had good health? Then after 40 days he would never be seen again? No, this borders on the preposterous.
Perhaps the disciples helped Jesus revive. They rolled away the stone, unwrapped the clothes, bandaged the wounds, and told a story about getting their leader back alive out of the grave — a story that turned quickly into a tall tale about resurrection and miraculous appearances, a story that the disciples never tried to set straight. Not only is this historically implausible, it turns the disciples into frauds and deceivers — and yet, as we mentioned above, people do not give their lives for something they know is false. This does not provide a believable explanation for the rise of Christianity, rooted in the early first century in the conviction that Jesus had risen from the dead — and this faith spread first in Jerusalem, where the facts could be investigated most easily!
It is not historically likely that Jesus could have survived the crucifixion. Well then, could the disciples have made up the resurrection? Did they steal the body, hide it somewhere, invent the story of a guard, and then preach a resurrection with conviction? This does not make sense, either. These fishermen did not make up the biggest lie in history, going against all the facts of life and death as they knew it, going against all religious beliefs of the day, going against Jewish and Roman authorities, risking their lives to tell the story they made up, without any of them ever betraying the conspiracy. No, these folks were not conniving liars. Their words and deeds do not suggest any such deception. Their behavior matched their message.
As a side point, we might also observe that the evidence of the empty tomb is indirect. (If it wasn't empty, the Jewish leaders could have stopped the whole problem by producing the body.) And yet according to the Gospel stories, the empty tomb did not convince all the disciples. They were convinced only when Jesus appeared, and it is on the basis of the appearances that they preached the resurrection. If they had gone to the trouble of stealing the body, surely they would have used the empty tomb as part of their evidence. The fact that they didn't, tells us that they had what they thought was much better evidence: eyewitnesses of a living Jesus.
As another indirect evidence of the authenticity of their faith, we can observe that the Gospels report that women were the first eyewitnesses of the empty tomb and the risen Christ — and the testimony of women was not accepted in that culture. If the disciples were trying to make up a story, they would have invented witnesses who had more authority. It is not likely that these fishermen would have been so subtle in creating evidence, and yet be so bold in preaching. And what about the fact that the Gospel stories vary somewhat? If this had been an enormous conspiracy, wouldn't they ensure that the story was told in exactly the same way by everyone? The most believable explanation again is that the disciples genuinely believed Jesus to be resurrected, and each one told it the way he or she remembered it.
Now let's consider another possibility: graverobbers (hoping for riches in the rich man's tomb) got the guards to drink so much wine that they fell asleep; then the graverobbers took the body and dumped it in the desert. The guards, wanting to cover up their failure and knowing the fears of the religious leaders, made up the story of the angels and the resurrection, and were bribed to blame the disciples. Then the disciples had hallucinations of a risen Jesus.
However, did all the disciples have the same hallucination, several times, against their expectations, against their religious beliefs? Did the hallucination eat and drink, speak, and then suddenly cease 40 days later? This is not the way hallucinations work. The evidence does not match this hypothesis, either.
Let's consider one more idea, that the idea of resurrection was just a religious allegory (sometimes described as a "myth," meaning religious ideas expressed in allegorical stories), and Christianity made a big mistake in taking it literally for almost 2,000 years. There are several problems with this idea. First, the Gospels are not written in a mythological style. And it is clear that the resurrection was understood in a literal way even in the first century, when eyewitnesses of Jesus were still available to either support or refute the story. There was no time for legends to develop. The biblical writers give us history: This is what I saw. This is what it meant. They denounce the idea of myth. They are presenting what they saw.
The disciples were not deceived, nor were they deceivers. They just tell us what they believed, and it is clear that they believed that Jesus died and was buried and was resurrected. And it is clear that the reason they believed this is because they saw it with their own eyes.
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched — this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. (1 John 1:1-3)
The disciples clearly believed that Jesus rose from the dead. Why did they believe this? The most plausible explanation is that Jesus actually rose from the dead. All other theories are far-fetched and historically unlikely.
When we also take into consideration the need for God to intervene in humanity to save us, and the Old Testament predictions of a suffering servant who would give his life for his people, the explanation that makes the most sense is that the disciples believed that Jesus was resurrected because Jesus appeared to them and told them he was resurrected. That is why they had such a transformation in their beliefs, and why they preached with such conviction. As Luke puts it, by looking at the evidence we "may know the certainty of the things we have been taught" (Luke 1:4).
Michael Morrison
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For all you passive aggressive types. Fuck you, kind of.
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MycoUnderground
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: doodoomaster]
#10377861 - 05/21/09 07:39 PM (4 years, 4 days ago) |
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Actually there are 2 basic kinds of atheism: strong and weak. Strong atheists do deny the existence of any god or deity, and weak atheists have been made to include any other form of belief that doesn't involve deities.
Anyway, concerning my position on the belief of God, I just don't know. Maybe people will know if God exists one day, but I'm not convinced we know enough now to say so with any certainty, and that's all I can really say for sure about that. But, this hardly contstitutes the depth needed to be deemed a religious belief.
So, as far my own religious beliefs, there are no "isms" that can accurately describe exactly what I think, maybe aside from "MycoUndergroundism." I'm the only one that believes what I do. Noone else was born with my genetics and grew up with the exact experiences have lived, so nobody can believe exactly what I do. I could go on and on about what I think is truth, and its likely some people would agree with much of it, but despite common "isms" we may share, upon examining the details differences can be spotted between any two people. There just aren't enough "isms" out there to classify everything that each and every person thinks.
On a bit of a side note; I think everyone is like this in their own way, and I think it is especially interesting to think about how it applies to people involved with organized religion and how they might respond to this.
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