|
 Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill 
Last seen: 3 hours, 48 minutes
|
 Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them?
#8758238 - 08/11/08 12:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Why do we see spiraling, organic, geometric patterns when we are having trip visuals?
These patterns are beyond fascinating to me... and while I'd like to think they have a bigger meaning, I doubt they do... still, what the fuck?
I'd like to get to the bottom of this.
--------------------
I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
|
 Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,002
Loc: heart cave
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Cervantes]
#8758288 - 08/11/08 12:53 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Lots of food for thought here.
--------------------
|
DieCommie
Heliocentrist
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 21,251
Loc: Street of Dreams
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Revelation]
#8758301 - 08/11/08 12:55 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Neither of those pictures is a fractal though...
Ive seen my share of the "spiraling, organic, geometric patterns" you speak of. I dont think they are fractals.
--------------------
Probabilities bring wisdom.
Possibilities leave ignorance.
Know well what leads you forward,
and what holds you back.
|
ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus
Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: DieCommie]
#8758314 - 08/11/08 12:58 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
What the fuck is up with them?
They are cool that's what.
They are a visual embodiment of the fact that sight is continuum and discretization is faith. The closer you measure the bigger it gets.
--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.
The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
|
daytripper23
?
Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: DieCommie]
#8758326 - 08/11/08 12:59 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
hmmm
technically, can you ever really assume something isn't fractal? there is always the possibility of scoping further.
|
Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,002
Loc: heart cave
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: DieCommie]
#8758361 - 08/11/08 01:07 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I realize that neither picture is a fractal, but together they exhibit self similarity across scale, which is a characteristic of fractals. There are many examples of naturally occurring fractals. Here's one:
--------------------
|
Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 3 hours, 48 minutes
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Revelation]
#8758413 - 08/11/08 01:15 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Why do we see them?
Is there a scientific explanation for this shared visual?
--------------------
I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
|
ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus
Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Cervantes]
#8758443 - 08/11/08 01:22 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Cervantes said:
Why do we see them?
Is there a scientific explanation for this shared visual?
The scientific explanation is what we see, faith is why.
--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.
The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
Edited by ExplosiveMango (08/11/08 01:38 PM)
|
deimya
tofu and monocle
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Cervantes]
#8758456 - 08/11/08 01:25 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Self-organizing criticality seems to be common to many physical systems. They give rise to scale-invariance and thus power-law behaviour of many observable, measurable quantities. Life could just be a dynamical attractor inherent to our physical laws rather than a phenomenon rendered possible by fine-tuning of such laws.
Quote:
The scientific explanation is what we see not why, faith is why.
Yet you certainly don't know why it should be so either do you ? Science gives a consistent how with an incomplete why. Faith gives an inconsistent how with a complete why.
Edited by deimya (08/11/08 01:35 PM)
|
daytripper23
?
Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Cervantes]
#8758486 - 08/11/08 01:29 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
does infinity imply everything?
One way of looking at it, its just a matter of awareness of. In the infinite scope of consciousness, the idea that everything is bound to repeat makes a certain kind of sense. That is, infinity implies everything. Fractals just happen to be something we are aware of. Following this same line of reasoning, we might assume that everything is on some level bound to shape the 3-dimensional portrait of Jesus, that walks, talks, and performs magic tricks. Does this mean anything?
Idk, It seems to be an allusion to infinity.
|
Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,002
Loc: heart cave
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Cervantes]
#8758487 - 08/11/08 01:29 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I don't know but there is an interesting excerpt about this very thing in this post
--------------------
|
The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 10,517
Last seen: 8 hours, 55 minutes
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Cervantes]
#8758526 - 08/11/08 01:37 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Multiple images appearing in one ever changing interconnected web?
But only illusory?
Sounds familiar...
I took LSD for the first time a few days back & the hallucenations were incredible, from venomous snakes attacking my face to egyptian hyroglyphics to a web of billions of eyes similar to alex greys art.
What i learn from them (hallucenations) is that no image, no matter how attractive or scary, is me, but an image i create myself in order to dream & lose myself in, then wake up from remembering i am not the image
--------------------
.
|
ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus
Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: deimya]
#8758554 - 08/11/08 01:42 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
deimya said:
Quote:
The scientific explanation is what we see not why, faith is why.
Yet you certainly don't know why it should be so either do you ? Science gives a consistent how with an incomplete why. Faith gives an inconsistent how with a complete why.
I screwed up and added 'not why' by accident, apologies.
Science gives a consistent how with a border to why. Faith gives a consistent why with a border to how.
--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.
The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
|
ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus
Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: ExplosiveMango]
#8758559 - 08/11/08 01:43 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
(So what is the mind for?)
--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.
The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
|
EternalCowabunga
Small sassy black girl
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 4,643
Loc: Toronto
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: ExplosiveMango]
#8758742 - 08/11/08 02:22 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I think the Universe is fractal in nature.
--------------------
Oh, yeah, what are you gonna do? Release the
dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their
mouth and when they bark, they shoot bees at you? -
Homer Simpson
|
Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 3 hours, 48 minutes
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Revelation]
#8758780 - 08/11/08 02:28 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Revelation said:
I don't know but there is an interesting excerpt about this very thing in this post
Fascinating.
But why fractals?
--------------------
I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
|
deimya
tofu and monocle
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Cervantes]
#8758818 - 08/11/08 02:35 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Because similar processes happen at different scales over a wide yet finite range of scales. Your broccoli might simply be a "branch out and grow" automaton over two orders of magnitudes 
|
Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 3 hours, 48 minutes
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: deimya]
#8758826 - 08/11/08 02:36 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
So you don't know?
--------------------
I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
|
deimya
tofu and monocle
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Cervantes]
#8758888 - 08/11/08 02:47 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Not that much no. Only many processes in nature are recursive; many physical laws contain some sort of scale-invariance in a certain range; the Hausdorff dimension being greater than the topological one, a fractal geometry might in some case constitute an optimal solution for certain natural task, like the optimization of the surface over volume ratio for plants; recursive and iterative processes are also everywhere to be found in nature, which easily lead to fractal geometries; etc. In that sense I think fractals are much more natural and evolution-friendly than simple geometric shapes.
Edited by deimya (08/11/08 02:53 PM)
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,325
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: deimya]
#8758948 - 08/11/08 02:57 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
there are two big reasons to see them.
one is that they resemble logarithmic progressions which arise and slowly fade leaving artifacts of their progress.
that relates to nearly all appearances or emergences during the trip.
then there is the other aspect called polyopia.
the multiplicity of motifs is an innate aspect of every single instance.
when you have multiplicity and logarithmically scaled motifs, then the sense of fractal patterning is very strong.
--------------------
~~~~~
|
Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 3 hours, 48 minutes
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8759254 - 08/11/08 04:17 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Interesting. Where did you learn that?
--------------------
I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
|
Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,002
Loc: heart cave
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Cervantes]
#8759503 - 08/11/08 05:12 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Did you read the brainsturbator article in my first reply?
Also check out this new scientist article that suggests that the universe is in fact one big fractal. It looks like the big bang theory is soon to be obsolete.
new scientist.
--------------------
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,325
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Cervantes]
#8759890 - 08/11/08 07:16 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Cervantes said:
Interesting. Where did you learn that?
polyopia was first noticed before 1920 in this book
which predates the evidence that memory is stored holographically in multiple places at the same time.
both facts support eachother.
it may require that an individual is stoned to integrate the multiple fading elements of memory fixation into an ongoing psychedelic ezperience, but these events are natural.
on psychedelic
signals just fade more slowly.
the fabrio of memory leaves a wider footprint as it follows it's stream
--------------------
~~~~~
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 64,049
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: ExplosiveMango]
#8759897 - 08/11/08 07:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
ExplosiveMango said:
Quote:
Cervantes said:
Why do we see them?
Is there a scientific explanation for this shared visual?
The scientific explanation is what we see, faith is why.
Faith in what?
--------------------
“Serenity is when you get above all this, when it doesn't matter what they think, say or want, but when you do as you are, and see God and Devil as one.”
― Henry Miller
|
ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus
Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Icelander]
#8760993 - 08/11/08 11:20 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
ExplosiveMango said:
Quote:
Cervantes said:
Why do we see them?
Is there a scientific explanation for this shared visual?
The scientific explanation is what we see, faith is why.
Faith in what?
In the detail you are currently seeing the fractal to be.
--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.
The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
|
BlindSophist
drunken preacher
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 18,093
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8761295 - 08/12/08 01:03 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
All of reality is one big, fat, transcendent fractal. That's what's the fuck is up with them.
--------------------
Love of one is a barbarism; for it is exercised at the expense of all others. The love of God, too.
--Friedrich Nietzsche
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,325
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: BlindSophist]
#8761919 - 08/12/08 07:29 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
this can be true, but it does not explain what is happenning when you are stoned and you seem to be seeing this aspect of things.
i.e. why not see it when not stoned.
patterning in visions and progressions in composite images are consistent with the machinery of
memory (holographc and distributed storage),
timing (mathematical - predictive) and
thought (associative recall by simmilarity).
I think everyone should get more into fractals and logrythmic functions to see how they are part of nature, rather than discounting it as just a thing that exists.
--------------------
~~~~~
|
NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Cervantes]
#8762329 - 08/12/08 10:14 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Entoptic Phenomenon
"There has been a great deal of work trying to find evidence of motifs and compositions derived from entoptic phenomena in prehistoric art, especially rock art and megalithic art. The justification of this research is that entoptic phenomena normally occur during states of altered consciousness, the practice of which may impact our views of ancient religious and social practice." from Entoptic Phenomena in archaeology
|
Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 3 hours, 48 minutes
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Revelation]
#8762932 - 08/12/08 12:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Revelation said:
Did you read the brainsturbator article in my first reply?
Also check out this new scientist article that suggests that the universe is in fact one big fractal. It looks like the big bang theory is soon to be obsolete.
new scientist.
Very interesting theory. Thanks for the link.
--------------------
I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 64,049
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: ExplosiveMango]
#8763066 - 08/12/08 01:23 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
ExplosiveMango said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
ExplosiveMango said:
Quote:
Cervantes said:
Why do we see them?
Is there a scientific explanation for this shared visual?
The scientific explanation is what we see, faith is why.
Faith in what?
In the detail you are currently seeing the fractal to be.
I have faith in the detail of fractals?
--------------------
“Serenity is when you get above all this, when it doesn't matter what they think, say or want, but when you do as you are, and see God and Devil as one.”
― Henry Miller
|
Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 3 hours, 48 minutes
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Icelander]
#8763113 - 08/12/08 01:35 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Yes Ice, if you BELIEVE, it will become TRUE.
--------------------
I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 64,049
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Cervantes]
#8763126 - 08/12/08 01:39 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Damn, I didn't know that. And I really hadn't even thought about them very much. The force must be strong in me.
--------------------
“Serenity is when you get above all this, when it doesn't matter what they think, say or want, but when you do as you are, and see God and Devil as one.”
― Henry Miller
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,325
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Icelander]
#8763212 - 08/12/08 02:01 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
you have the force of a glacier
much fractal crystals in the ice
--------------------
~~~~~
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 64,049
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8763225 - 08/12/08 02:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I'm a little snowflake short and stout. And very individual.
--------------------
“Serenity is when you get above all this, when it doesn't matter what they think, say or want, but when you do as you are, and see God and Devil as one.”
― Henry Miller
|
NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8764228 - 08/12/08 05:19 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
NiamhNyx said:
Entoptic Phenomenon
"There has been a great deal of work trying to find evidence of motifs and compositions derived from entoptic phenomena in prehistoric art, especially rock art and megalithic art. The justification of this research is that entoptic phenomena normally occur during states of altered consciousness, the practice of which may impact our views of ancient religious and social practice." from Entoptic Phenomena in archaeology
Hey look everybody I actually answered the question! weeee! entoptic phenomenon actually explains the geometric patterns that everyone sees when they trip or have a fever or meditate for long enough or whatever.... you're literally seeing the inside of your eye and interpreting it in different strange ways.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,325
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8764257 - 08/12/08 05:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
the inside of the eye then
ok
--------------------
~~~~~
|
NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8764355 - 08/12/08 05:43 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
you know how if you press on your eyes you can get crazy visuals? that's that. entoptic phenomena. neato.
|
Lion
Mara
Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 7,043
Loc: Malkhut
Last seen: 5 hours, 13 minutes
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8764504 - 08/12/08 06:08 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah, those visuals are intense! Probably my first 'psychedelic' visions...:D
--------------------
There are no resolutions in Samsara.
|
PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
|
 Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8764577 - 08/12/08 06:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
NiamhNyx said:
you know how if you press on your eyes you can get crazy visuals? that's that. entoptic phenomena. neato.
When I press on my eyes, I see snow like on a TV channel that is off the air....
I don't see motifs, I see random speckles of white/black gradients....
Don't think it is the same thing.... 
Unless other people see shapes when they press their eyes - which is entirely possible I guess....
>^;;^<
--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry.... 
"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
|
Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 3 hours, 48 minutes
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8764585 - 08/12/08 06:19 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Not the same... not in my experience. And like red said, that would only explain CEVs.
--------------------
I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
|
Lion
Mara
Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 7,043
Loc: Malkhut
Last seen: 5 hours, 13 minutes
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#8764624 - 08/12/08 06:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
PhanTomCat said:
Quote:
NiamhNyx said:
you know how if you press on your eyes you can get crazy visuals? that's that. entoptic phenomena. neato.
When I press on my eyes, I see snow like on a TV channel that is off the air....
I don't see motifs, I see random speckles of white/black gradients....
Don't think it is the same thing....
Unless other people see shapes when they press their eyes - which is entirely possible I guess....
>^;;^<
Press your knuckles against your eyelids where the pupil is, gently but firmly. You'll get some pretty serious visuals this way. It actually effects your vision for a few seconds after you open your eyes.
--------------------
There are no resolutions in Samsara.
|
Seeker_22
LysergicStormtrooper
Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 1,289
Last seen: 8 months, 22 days
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8764650 - 08/12/08 06:28 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Dude I had the strongest visuals I have ever had this past weekend. I couldn't have timed those other 2 hits any better, they complemented the 2 from earlier in the day perfect. I was peaking right as BLR and the codetalkers came on. The music was taking ahold of me, I was having such a good time it was hard bottling up the emotions that were flowing. I would keep nodding off cause I was so fucked up and when I closed my eyes the lights would be changing and it was epic. I would look down at my shirt and it was also changing with the lights it was extremely powerful though. I am recalling all the times I would nod off onto something and not watch the music. Like during mellow songs when he wasn't shredding. I finally noticed all this hay on the ground only it was very geometrical and pattern like. They were all forming like octagon shapes and the lights were hitting them and it was like the ground was a lazer show almost. It was easily the best experience I ever had on L. It was a beautiful day, hell I even got to try DMT for the first time, numerous times that day.
--------------------
"Load universe into cannon. Aim at brain. Fire."
|
PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
|
 Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Lion]
#8764676 - 08/12/08 06:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
OK, I just did it, and it hurts, but all I saw was random "snow"....
It was less gradients as I remember, and more just white on black.....
On a side note, I have only experienced visuals during altered states a couple of times, in very minimal ways - as compared to other's stories....
So, I could actually be "different" in that respect....
If this is not the consensus, I will humbly bow out of this part of the discussion....
>^;;^<
--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....
"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
|
Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 3 hours, 48 minutes
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#8764723 - 08/12/08 06:37 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I usually have to eat over an eighth of dried cubes to get good visuals... 5-7 grams for intense, all consuming visuals.
In general, if you don't see 'em, and you want visuals, you need to take more.
Good pot during the come up helps too.
--------------------
I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
|
NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Lion]
#8764850 - 08/12/08 06:56 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
If you shift the area and amount of pressure you can get some pretty neat effects, moving, spiralling kind of stuff. that and spinning around til i was dizzy was what i did for fun as a kid. 
|
deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Cervantes]
#8764894 - 08/12/08 07:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
never had this happen on cubes, lsd + pot is what really does me in. trip report -
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8339981#Post8339981
|
Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 3 hours, 48 minutes
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: deranger]
#8764995 - 08/12/08 07:25 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
In general, I see fewer fractals with cubes than other psychedelics... but I suspect other people have different experiences.
--------------------
I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,325
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8765935 - 08/12/08 11:03 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
NiamhNyx said:
you know how if you press on your eyes you can get crazy visuals? that's that. entoptic phenomena. neato.
i get great visuals, never pressing on eyes.
pressing on eyes is not good for them.
--------------------
~~~~~
|
Lion
Mara
Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 7,043
Loc: Malkhut
Last seen: 5 hours, 13 minutes
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8768718 - 08/13/08 02:14 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
It's not!? 
--------------------
There are no resolutions in Samsara.
|
Mr. Middle
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 6,444
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Lion]
#8768939 - 08/13/08 02:52 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Pushing on the eyes causes cataracts.
A strobe light will stimulate visuals.
|
bradley
Stranger
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 6,430
Last seen: 1 hour, 58 minutes
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Mr. Middle]
#8769877 - 08/13/08 05:31 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
|
bradley
Stranger
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 6,430
Last seen: 1 hour, 58 minutes
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: bradley]
#8770018 - 08/13/08 06:02 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I tried to think up an original fractal but I couldn't.
Now I just layed down tiredly on my bed and saw a faint pattern of circles made up of circles, as if each bead in the picture below was made up of a bead necklace.
It came involuntarily but fuzzily. 
pretty boring fractal. damn. i really liked this thread though.
Edited by bradley (08/13/08 06:04 PM)
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,325
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: bradley]
#8770780 - 08/13/08 08:26 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
gorgeous necklace
--------------------
~~~~~
|
learningtofly
Ancient Aliens
Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
Last seen: 6 months, 8 days
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8775544 - 08/14/08 10:10 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
HOLY FUCKING SHIT THAT WAS SCARY AS FUCKING HELL! I Did the thing where you put your knuckles over your eyes and I had extremely intense fractcals, i did it for like 1min.. the scary part was that when I opened my eyes they still engulfed my vision for like 2 seconds..... wow scary
--------------------
|
BlindSophist
drunken preacher
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 18,093
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: learningtofly]
#8777571 - 08/15/08 11:52 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
learningtofly said:
HOLY FUCKING SHIT THAT WAS SCARY AS FUCKING HELL! I Did the thing where you put your knuckles over your eyes and I had extremely intense fractcals, i did it for like 1min.. the scary part was that when I opened my eyes they still engulfed my vision for like 2 seconds..... wow scary
I used to do this all the time as a kid, it's pretty damn trippy. It's the same kind of stuff you see on drugs. Funny that.
--------------------
Love of one is a barbarism; for it is exercised at the expense of all others. The love of God, too.
--Friedrich Nietzsche
|
truekimbo2
Cya later, friends.
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 9,234
Loc: ny
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: BlindSophist]
#8795269 - 08/19/08 10:18 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
are all math fractals by definition infinite in complexity, or can you make imperfect ones that eventually end?
i've been trying to figure out why natural fractals can die or errode
is there math for having two fractals interact, so that one fractal breaks down another one?
--------------------
You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.
|
DieCommie
Heliocentrist
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 21,251
Loc: Street of Dreams
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: truekimbo2]
#8795335 - 08/19/08 10:31 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
First question, yes they are infinite in complexity. If you can make one that will eventually end, it is no longer a fractal. Thats leads into your second sentence, natural fractals are not really fractals at all! Mystics use the term loosely and will see fractals in anything from space to broccoli. But real fractals, as you know, go on to infinity. The only thing Ive seen in nature that is a real fractal are models for chaotic systems. And here, its not something you see that looks like a fractal, the model exhibits infinite self-similarity and that is what is fractal like.
As for your last question... I have never seen or heard anything about that, but I think it can happen. Maybe if you superimpose a fractal with its inverse (which is also a fractal) then you can get a constant out, or at least non-fractal behavior.
--------------------
Probabilities bring wisdom.
Possibilities leave ignorance.
Know well what leads you forward,
and what holds you back.
|
BoneMan
Shrimpin ain't easy
Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,032
Loc: new new england
Last seen: 3 months, 5 days
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: DieCommie]
#8796604 - 08/19/08 02:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I'm not so sure that something necessarily has to have infinite complexity or resolution to be called a fractal. There are other features that describe shapes with fractal geometry. Objects or shapes that are made up of many tiny replicas of the whole and those parts too are made up of even smaller parts of the same shape. I don't think the word fractal necessarily implies a shape that can be magnified infinitely, although its those that make fractals so incredible.
Quote:
Mystics use the term loosely and will see fractals in anything from space to broccoli.
Fractal geometers also use the term to describe a whole lot of what they see in nature.
|
DieCommie
Heliocentrist
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 21,251
Loc: Street of Dreams
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: BoneMan]
#8796647 - 08/19/08 02:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
A fractal is an object or quantity that displays self-similarity, in a somewhat technical sense, on all scales.
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Fractal.html
The 'on all scales' there is the key, however I dont think there is yet a formal definition of fractal. When I hear mathematicians use it to describe nature I interpret that as shorthand for 'approximate fractal'. Of course thats the case for nearly all phenomenon in nature... the models only approximate them.
So, until there is further development and standardization in the field, I guess you can define a fractal anyway you want.
|
clearsight
Stranger
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 97
Loc: London
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: Cervantes]
#8800948 - 08/20/08 11:54 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Cervantes said:
Why do we see spiraling, organic, geometric patterns when we are having trip visuals?
Because fractales and geometric patterns are simple objects. A fractale is one patterns replicated n times in all direction. It can written in 2 lines code: pattern description * nb of times. On the opposite, a full landscape would require 100 lines of code to be describe to a computer.
On acid, your brain loose its ability to build constructs, everything is melting. You are loosing the full landscape because your brain is loosing its ability to construct it. Literally your brain is giving you all it can process, which is 2 lines of information, fractales.
Loosing constructs can also help you to see all the bad ones you jailed yourself in.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,325
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: clearsight]
#8801039 - 08/20/08 12:23 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
you don't lose construct ability - this remains but is altered because
you accumulate debris from previous moments of consciousness.
this debris creates some confusion, some trails, & some smearing cues.
the combination of partial sensory debris from different time slices produces a composite which will definitely support melting constructs, twisting constructs and multidimensional constructs.
spiral accumulation and linear accumulation of partials are normal.
spiral partials and fractal designs from visual input and memory are consistent with sensory cells fatiguing and regenerating.
they are enhanced with cadence sequences that seem to play over each other like a complex chorus singing the same song but with delayed start times.
the only thing different when you are stoned is how long a sensory signal (from the triggerred cell(s)) will persist. (also some physical differences, like iris dilation which is secondary)
higher doses mean longer persistence. (actually just more prolonged fadeout, the spike is the same as normal - a background accumulation however will compete with new signal clarity/contrast)
--------------------
~~~~~
|
bryguy27007
Cosmonaut
Registered: 01/26/08
Posts: 5,182
Loc: Minnesota
Last seen: 11 hours, 14 minutes
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8801169 - 08/20/08 01:04 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I read all the links in the thread.
Wow.
I used to think fractals were cool, but that is before I knew what they were.
Now I want to study them, understand them, appreciate them.
--------------------
|
numonkei
Back! From thedigestive tractof dave theiguana!
Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 2,446
Loc: A Tree
Last seen: 7 days, 4 hours
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: clearsight]
#8801211 - 08/20/08 01:21 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
clearsight said:
Quote:
Cervantes said:
Why do we see spiraling, organic, geometric patterns when we are having trip visuals?
Because fractales and geometric patterns are simple objects. A fractale is one patterns replicated n times in all direction. It can written in 2 lines code: pattern description * nb of times. On the opposite, a full landscape would require 100 lines of code to be describe to a computer.
On acid, your brain loose its ability to build constructs, everything is melting. You are loosing the full landscape because your brain is loosing its ability to construct it. Literally your brain is giving you all it can process, which is 2 lines of information, fractales.
Loosing constructs can also help you to see all the bad ones you jailed yourself in.
Well, I'm not schooled on the math of fractals enough to actually weigh in, but I know a landscape, from the human standard of perspective that isn't two-dimensional, would require WAY more than 100 lines of code. It would require enough code to cause effect similar to the the human sense functions like auditory and visual centers, along with any necessary systems in the brain that assist with mental recreating of that landscape.
Or did you mean a 2-d recreation?
I like fractals. They're fun. Basically anyone who says math sucks seems to have little so say once you show them a fractal at different images, especially if the negatives are colored.  Yummy.
~Monk
|
DieCommie
Heliocentrist
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 21,251
Loc: Street of Dreams
|
Re: Fractals... What the Fuck is Up With Them? [Re: numonkei]
#8801231 - 08/20/08 01:27 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
but I know a landscape, from the human standard of perspective that isn't two-dimensional
Im not sure what you mean here. Humans can only see in 2-D really, even with depth perception. Im not really sure of this context though,
I always thought of psychedelics somehow interfering with our ability to 'smooth over' objects. While not on them, things like white walls, or brick walls go unnoticed - the brain is able to toss all that detail because its not needed. When frying you dont do that, and the brain is less able to filter our 'superfluous' information. So when I see those shapes, they are artifacts of my brains inability to selectively choose detail and information. Information overload in a way. Thats just my experience and crazy thoughts.
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Shop for: 
Edit 
Reply 
