Chakras? Do they exist? - Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Home | Community | Message Board

You are not signed in.
New Account

Forum Index Search Posts Best Posts Active Topics Galleries FAQ User List Calendar Chat Store Random Growery

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop for:

Ayahuasca, Toilet Paper

Microscope, Scales

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 [ show all ]

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Chakras? Do they exist?
#8647236 - 07/17/08 01:18 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

What the fuck is a Chakra?

How do you open one?

What does it look like when you have an open chakra?

How many chakras are there?

What good do they do?

--------------------
I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.

Post Extras:

BlindSophist
drunken preacher

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 20,234
Loc: SF Bay Area

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8647253 - 07/17/08 01:23 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Chakras are an idea used to organize psychosomatic sensations of energy and pressure in different spots in the body.

Doesn't your chest feel heavy when you're stressed out? And etc.

--------------------
Love of one is a barbarism; for it is exercised at the expense of all others. The love of God, too.
--Friedrich Nietzsche

Post Extras:

thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: BlindSophist]
#8647258 - 07/17/08 01:25 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

well i would say more then chest it depends on the stress. thats a good way to put it. its no just psychosomatic cause your body will react creating knots in your back and other stress related things. Its more then just in your head for sure. majority of the cases they need to be worked out by physical things

--------------------

"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Post Extras:

BlindSophist
drunken preacher

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 20,234
Loc: SF Bay Area

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: thedudenj]
#8647298 - 07/17/08 01:33 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

To answer your question, Cervantes, chakras don't exist; they are a concept that is sometimes useful.

--------------------
Love of one is a barbarism; for it is exercised at the expense of all others. The love of God, too.
--Friedrich Nietzsche

Post Extras:

The Chronic

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,041

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: thedudenj]
#8647316 - 07/17/08 01:39 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Id recommend not bothering to learn about chakras from a book, but next time you have a strong emotion stop for a second then feel where you are in your body, then you start to learn your bodys intuition, we trust the minds thoughts alot but imo the bodys intuition "knows" alot better than what we are taught by culture.

Simply feeling being/existence/I Am in your body is a great relaxation technique, just stay aware of your own sense of being. I do it as much as possible its amazing.

:peace:

Post Extras:

SSM_Arts
Shaman

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 502
Loc: CA
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: BlindSophist]
#8647354 - 07/17/08 01:46 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

They Exist. They are not physical though. They are metaphysical. Check out this chart!

--------------------

Dedication, Patience & tenacity is the curve that grades a wannabe from a true cultivator. - Agar

“The only true wisdom is knowing that you know nothing.”
- Socrates

I had to go to the hospital for sinus treatment a couple years ago. I recommended THIS to anyone with sinusitus or nasal problems. It's amazing!

Post Extras:

thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: SSM_Arts]
#8647368 - 07/17/08 01:50 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

yeah im not gona write the meta physical as psychosomatic. i think it works the other way and if you think its psychosomatic your not realizing that in your life is causing the stress that causes the chakra reaction

--------------------

"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: thedudenj]
#8647381 - 07/17/08 01:52 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

thedudenj said:
yeah im not gona write the meta physical as psychosomatic. i think it works the other way and if you think its psychosomatic your not realizing that in your life is causing the stress that causes the chakra reaction

Stress causes a PHYSICAL reaction... not a meta-physical reaction.

Why would focusing on imaginary things help more than focusing on the actual physical response?

Post Extras:

BlindSophist
drunken preacher

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 20,234
Loc: SF Bay Area

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8647389 - 07/17/08 01:55 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Cervantes, you knew exactly what replies you were going to get when you started this thread, didn't you? :rolleyes:

--------------------
Love of one is a barbarism; for it is exercised at the expense of all others. The love of God, too.
--Friedrich Nietzsche

Post Extras:

TameMe
Stranger

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 2,521
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: BlindSophist]
#8647407 - 07/17/08 02:00 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Whether imagenary or real...our perception of these things somehow changes them.

I've felt soreness in my lower back before. And if I just focus on the source of the pain...and feel it for what it is...it will sometime start to feel warm and less painful.

Post Extras:

BlindSophist
drunken preacher

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 20,234
Loc: SF Bay Area

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: BlindSophist]
#8647413 - 07/17/08 02:01 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Why would focusing on imaginary things help more than focusing on the actual physical response?

How can focusing on the physical response of stress do anything but make it worse? You have to focus on the stress itself to really get anywhere.

Sometimes stress is in your imagination.

--------------------
Love of one is a barbarism; for it is exercised at the expense of all others. The love of God, too.
--Friedrich Nietzsche

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: BlindSophist]
#8647650 - 07/17/08 02:43 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Cervantes, you knew exactly what replies you were going to get when you started this thread, didn't you?

If I knew what the replies would be in advance, I wouldn't have needed to start the thread.

If you think I know such things in advance, you are endowing me with powers I don't actually have.

I don't understand how meditating on invisible, intangible chakras is and better/worse than meditating about growing a longer penis or whirled peas.

I don't understand why different people say there are a different number of chakras (Are there seven or eleven?).

I am actually quite interested in the subject of chakras... yet most chakra preachers strike me as a bit loony.

I know I am not the only one.

So... I want to get to the bottom of this whole chakra thing.

Post Extras:

The Chronic

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,041

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8647661 - 07/17/08 02:46 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Quote:

thedudenj said:
yeah im not gona write the meta physical as psychosomatic. i think it works the other way and if you think its psychosomatic your not realizing that in your life is causing the stress that causes the chakra reaction

Stress causes a PHYSICAL reaction... not a meta-physical reaction.

Why would focusing on imaginary things help more than focusing on the actual physical response?

Dont focus on anything imaginary please dont its not worth it!

If you had a feeling in your gut or your heart would you count it as a physical response?
Like when you REALLY love someone and your heart pours out,or your gut is wrenching. That feels pretty physical to me.
If i feel it, i count it as physical, the only non-physical aspect ive found of me is my awareness. stay as awareness & youll tell yourself more about your body & energy than any book could, your body teaches you knowing experience, books teach you passed on knowledge. dont settle for less

:peace:

Post Extras:

BlindSophist
drunken preacher

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 20,234
Loc: SF Bay Area

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8647761 - 07/17/08 03:02 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
If I knew what the replies would be in advance, I wouldn't have needed to start the thread.

You do remarkably well, in the starting post, at asking the most absurd and misdirected possible questions about chakras. Being that you are a reg here with 8000+ posts, I find it hard to imagine you didn't do this on purpose. If you are honestly not trolling, I apologize for my presumption.

Quote:

I don't understand how meditating on invisible, intangible chakras is and better/worse than meditating about growing a longer penis or whirled peas.

It works for some people. I agree with you that obsessing over chakras, their colors, their gemstones, their locations, what "psychic powers" they can give, etc. is a bit much, and I stay away from it myself. But the core concept of there being epicenters of sensation in the body which can be consciously addressed is valid.

Quote:

I don't understand why different people say there are a different number of chakras (Are there seven or eleven?).

Everybody interprets their bodily signals differently.

Quote:

I am actually quite interested in the subject of chakras... yet most chakra preachers strike me as a bit loony.

I know I am not the only one.

So... I want to get to the bottom of this whole chakra thing.

I feel like the idea of chakras is valid but that it has so much cultural baggage attached to it that it is hard to "get to the bottom" of any of it for those of us who weren't raised with the idea. It's even harder to get any use out of it when most of these people tell you that staring at an amethyst will magically open you up inside. I don't try, myself. I try to just make my own sense of what my body is telling me.

--------------------
Love of one is a barbarism; for it is exercised at the expense of all others. The love of God, too.
--Friedrich Nietzsche

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: The Chronic]
#8647762 - 07/17/08 03:03 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Dont focus on anything imaginary please dont its not worth it!

I like my imagination... thank you very much.

Quote:

If you had a feeling in your gut or your heart would you count it as a physical response?

Like when you REALLY love someone and your heart pours out,or your gut is wrenching.

That feels pretty physical to me.

If I were stabbed in the gut, or a victim of a heart attack I would feel it.

Emotions also create a physical response (just not as intense)... although I must confess, I have never had the sensation of a pouring heart. In other words, I have poured my heart out figuratively, but my heart never actually poured.

Almost all intense emotions create a physical response in me that starts in my gut and moves up my spine.

So I would count the gut feeling (or butterflies in the stomach)... but not the pouring heart, which strikes me as a metaphor.

If you focus on any part of the body you will notice things, and feel sensation... unless you are numb. That is not my question.

My question is: If chakras don't really exist, why focus on them instead of your actual body?

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8647805 - 07/17/08 03:12 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

openning means relaxing and releasing with abiding awareness at a fixed location.
chakkras can be anything or anywhere bu are traditionally inline along the spinal column or midline of the body.
they are useful for meditative practice.

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: BlindSophist]
#8647818 - 07/17/08 03:15 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

Cervantes said:
If I knew what the replies would be in advance, I wouldn't have needed to start the thread.

You do remarkably well, in the starting post, at asking the most absurd and misdirected possible questions about chakras. Being that you are a reg here with 8000+ posts, I find it hard to imagine you didn't do this on purpose. If you are honestly not trolling, I apologize for my presumption.

Trolling is grey territory. As a former Mod, I know this all too well.

Every poster who seeks a reply is technically trolling.

But I am trolling for discussion. I have told the truth about how I feel about chakras... and I am asking for others to do the same. Yes I am looking for debate. I like to debate. BUT, I'm not gonna' slide into personalisms (like you almost did) nor am I going to flame anybody. Don't assume you know why I start a thread... not by my chosen topic alone.

In this forum, it is best to start a thread with a debatable statement or question. This creates interest... and draws attention from more than just the forum regulars.

It is slow in here today, so I made a thread that would draw more hippies. New-Age/Buddhist threads certainly attract more flies than Christianity threads.

So yeah, I am a troll. But if I am a troll, what does that make you?

Post Extras:

The Chronic

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,041

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8647820 - 07/17/08 03:15 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:

My question is: If chakras don't really exist, why focus on them instead of your actual body?

Its the same thing to me, my body runs on energy and certain centres are for diferent forms of energy, like sex is down there, power is the solar plexus, love is the heart, desire is in my gut, vocal is the throat, insight is between my eyebrows, i actually physically feel these things and dont see any difference between feeling my body or chakras. Its just feeling your body & becoming sensitive to life.

The best chakra work you can practice is arousing sexuality then thinking of somone you love & respect but not sexually and raisnig the energy up your spine (while meditating)
Tantra.

Post Extras:

BlindSophist
drunken preacher

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 20,234
Loc: SF Bay Area

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8647828 - 07/17/08 03:16 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
So yeah, I am a troll. But if I am a troll, what does that make you?

Um... a troll-troll? :lol:

--------------------
Love of one is a barbarism; for it is exercised at the expense of all others. The love of God, too.
--Friedrich Nietzsche

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8647842 - 07/17/08 03:19 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
openning means relaxing and releasing with abiding awareness at a fixed location.
chakkras can be anything or anywhere bu are traditionally inline along the spinal column or midline of the body.
they are useful for meditative practice.

Allignment of the spine seems like a good thing. Humans are the only mamals I can think of who fight the natural curvature of our own spines... and since the spine holds the electrical/nervous system which communicates with the brain... it seems logical that one would like to keep the spine as stacked as possible. It could potentially aid in mobility AND intelligence.

But how are chakras useful for medatative practice? Just by giving you ONE thing to focus on... to aid in quieting other thoughts? Why chakras?

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: The Chronic]
#8647864 - 07/17/08 03:23 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Its the same thing to me, my body runs on energy and certain centres are for diferent forms of energy, like sex is down there, power is the solar plexus, love is the heart, desire is in my gut, vocal is the throat, insight is between my eyebrows, i actually physically feel these things and dont see any difference between feeling my body or chakras. Its just feeling your body & becoming sensitive to life.

How do you know power is in the solar plexus? Or love is in the heart? Desire is in the gut... etc? Because somebody told you?

Can't you just meditate on love? Rather than placing it in the blood pumping organ?

Post Extras:

The Chronic

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,041

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8647951 - 07/17/08 03:44 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Its the same thing to me, my body runs on energy and certain centres are for diferent forms of energy, like sex is down there, power is the solar plexus, love is the heart, desire is in my gut, vocal is the throat, insight is between my eyebrows, i actually physically feel these things and dont see any difference between feeling my body or chakras. Its just feeling your body & becoming sensitive to life.

How do you know power is in the solar plexus? Or love is in the heart? Desire is in the gut... etc? Because somebody told you?

"stay as awareness & youll tell yourself more about your body & energy than any book could"

Thats what i said earlier...i dont believe anything because someone tells me, i can experience it for myself then relate, but im not going to advise someone to do something unless ive experienced it.
Ive gone past believing what other people tell me, people lie! Experience doesnt

:peace:

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: The Chronic]
#8647962 - 07/17/08 03:46 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:

Ive gone past believing what other people tell me, people lie! Experience doesnt

If experience doesn't lie... but people do... how do you know you aren't lying to yourself about your own experience? How do you know you haven't drawn the wrong conclusion?

Post Extras:

thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8647964 - 07/17/08 03:47 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

i dunno but i feel a metaphysical force that emanates out of my body from all my chakra points primary,secondary and ect. I really dont feel like trying to analyze your minds we live in different worlds for sure. but i dunno i have felt energy vampires and vampired my self. i can feel misalignments in other peoples chakras and wave my hands and have sparkly stuff come out and into theirs taking away their pain and healing them. so i have seen and felt way too much with way to many people so you can call us crazy but we just live in a differnt world one that yours is based and you dont see the behind the scences of.

what i would ask rather then what you ask is i want you to make all of the people i can feel this energy with unable to feel it cause thats sure going a step further what your asking. all you gota do is take away our ability. what your asking me is to take in more illness when i already have a full plate. cant you just take the plate away?

--------------------

"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Edited by thedudenj (07/18/08 01:00 PM)

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: thedudenj]
#8647990 - 07/17/08 03:54 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

thedudenj said:
i dunno but i feel a metaphysical force that emanates out of my body from all my chakra points primary,secondary and ect. I really dont feel like trying to analyze your minds we live in different worlds for sure. but i dunno i have felt energy vampires and vampired my self. i can feel misalignments in other peoples chakras and wave my hands and have sparkly stuff come out and into theirs taking away their pain and healing them. so i have seen and felt way too much with way to many people so you can call us crazy but we just live in a differnt world one that yours is based and you dont see the behind the scences of

Bullshit.

For a person who can heal with his hands, you sure made a LOT of incorrect assumptions about me.

However, if what you say is true... that you can shoot sparkles out of your hands and heal other people... let me pick the sick person, you shoot 'em with hand sparkles and heal them... we'll videotape it and put it on Youtube... then EVERYBODY will know you have special hand sparkles and they will be able to seek your help. You could charge to heal them and become rich and famous.

Perhaps you could teach me how to do the sprinkle hands.

I want to believe.

Oh, and the "If you don't believe it, it won't work." argument won't cut it with me.

Say "Hi" to the energy vampires.

Edited by Cervantes (07/17/08 04:02 PM)

Post Extras:

The Chronic

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,041

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8647992 - 07/17/08 03:54 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Because any conclusion i come to cant be true because id be there to see or know the conclusion.

I dont want this to sound like im talking in riddles because im not.
Anything you can sense or feel or know is not "it" because you are there aware of it.
The only constant is the awareness and to me consistency is truth, or "it".

Its impossible to conclude infinity :grin:

Can a constant permanence come to an end?
In meditation you can see the whole universe die before your consistent awareness & thats when you can feel infinity, its beyond feeling even, beyond everything! Its like merging with pure impersonal subjectivity. And thats the only truth imo because that can't be gotten rid of, every thing passes & can be thrown away with time, stay as whats left after all this passes and know it for yourself.

pretty please :shrug:

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: The Chronic]
#8648016 - 07/17/08 04:01 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:
Because any conclusion i come to cant be true because id be there to see or know the conclusion.

I dont want this to sound like im talking in riddles because im not.
Anything you can sense or feel or know is not "it" because you are there aware of it.
The only constant is the awareness and to me consistency is truth, or "it".

I still don't understand what you are trying to say here. Care to rephrase? I do want to understand and I can see it is hard to express in words... some shit isn't easy to say clearly.

Quote:

In meditation you can see the whole universe die before your consistent awareness & thats when you can feel infinity, its beyond feeling even, beyond everything! Its like merging with pure impersonal subjectivity. And thats the only truth imo because that can't be gotten rid of, every thing passes & can be thrown away with time, stay as whats left after all this passes and know it for yourself.

Many people experience this feeling under similar circumstances... or while tripping.

It is quite mind blowing... but why draw conclusions from it... when you don't really know what you experienced?

Your imagination is a logical explination for all you have described.

Post Extras:

backfromthedead
Activated

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8648097 - 07/17/08 04:35 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

The lower energy centers on me are always buzzing and swirling. Especially around other people, and groups of people. I had to leave a bar not to long ago because I felt uncomfortably opened. Like I was spilling everywhere. Chakras...?? Sure. I feel em, whatever they are. :thumbup:

--------------------

Post Extras:

daytripper23
?

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8648309 - 07/17/08 05:47 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Correct me if I am wrong but you seem to be searching for some kind of validation rather than a philosophy or practice?

I would not vouch in a debate oriented discussion for the mystical effects of chakras in the mind and body. But I have become aware of this system, whatever it is, and my experience happened before I knew there was any common experience described as this. I could not deceive myself into feeling some named mystical force, because I had never heard of chakras at the point. I had what I would describe as a very unique and decisive experience, and later discovered an in depth description of what this was. I would describe this experience as subjective, but not exactly imaginative.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: daytripper23]
#8648366 - 07/17/08 06:19 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Correct me if I am wrong but you seem to be searching for some kind of validation rather than a philosophy or practice?

Correct ME if I'm wrong, but personalisms are not allowed in here.

It does not matter who I am or why I post. It only matters what I post. You don't have to like it, but leave ME out of it. Understand?

Your repeated attempts to psychoanalyze me have been posted from one thread to the next... to the next. And you are never right.

Enough already!

Quote:

I would not vouch in a debate oriented discussion for the mystical effects of chakras in the mind and body. But I have become aware of this system, whatever it is, and my experience happened before I knew there was any common experience described as this. I could not deceive myself into feeling some named mystical force, because I had never heard of chakras at the point. I had what I would describe as a very unique and decisive experience, and later discovered an in depth description of what this was. I would describe this experience as subjective, but not exactly imaginative.

Interesting points.

Post Extras:

daytripper23
?

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8648409 - 07/17/08 06:38 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Cervantes I did not realize there was bad blood. I was just trying to establish a context based on your first post:

Quote:

What the fuck is a Chakra?

How do you open one?

What does it look like when you have an open chakra?

How many chakras are there?

What good do they do?

Look, I did notice when you corrected the other day for believing Veritas was implying something she did not say. You gave me a nice verbal bashing for this mistake and I did not say anything. Remember? This is why I was being careful to establish the correct context.

and also, me attempting to establish this was by no means negative, and I am suprised you interpreted this way. Sometimes an investigation of what is real and what is not should be taken in this exact approach, and what I described seemed to provide exactly that sort of information.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: daytripper23]
#8648478 - 07/17/08 07:04 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

There is no bad blood, it just is against the rules.

Argue against the post, not the poster.

When I berated you, I was using what YOU actually said about Veritas' post, to make my point. You quoted V saying ONE thing... then you said she claimed something else entirely. The PROOF is in the POSTS. I called you out for using a bad debate tactic.

Now I'm doing it again.

You are pretending to delve into my mind... trying to show everybody WHY I post WHAT I post. That is simply being personal. And it is now clear to me, that you can't read minds very well. It is against the rules to use personalisms and my personal life has nothing to do with this discussion at all. To top it all off, it is a sign of a weak argument when you resort to personalisms.

It seems like I have to it explain to somebody every single day... this is a DEBATE forum. You don't like it, go to M&P. If you are here to stay, abide by the rules, and you will allow the debate to flow.

I don't have to agree with somebody to like them.

Post Extras:

daytripper23
?

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8648581 - 07/17/08 07:29 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Cervantes, not to mention that your way off base about Mine and Veritas's discussion, you have no buisness taking part in it either. Veritas can speak for herself as can I. You are not the moderator, so I suggest you butt out of this.

As for our current issue, I am just going to uphold that that was not a personalism in itself. I was only talking about your original post. I can't help whether you might choose to take it personally.

Quote:

It seems like I have to it explain to somebody every single day... this is a DEBATE forum. You don't like it, go to M&P.

ummm, did you just put that in there for shits and giggles?

Cervantes, a moment before I can assure you that I wasn't psychoanalyzing you anymore than is necessary to realize that these posts do not just magically appear on my computer screen. But now, I can't really help but wonder whats going on in your head.

Can't you see your efforts are only making things way more personal?

If you've really got a problem take it to the mods I guess. I will uphold that my post did not break any rules. In respect to the forum rules, I guess thats that right?

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8648847 - 07/17/08 08:26 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

during sleep paralysis/entering into astral projection the lower part of my body begins to vibrate intensely, it almost feels like one of those electric massagers is going off inside of my body.

I personally don't like to throw labels on such experiences, especially those that can't be accurately defined and easily expressed. maybe we do have an "energy body", made up of multiple central points that receive and transmit various forms energy. who knows.

as for new age hippie shit

it's a fun story :stoned:

Post Extras:

MarkostheGnostic
Elder

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 1 day, 23 hours

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8648937 - 07/17/08 08:45 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Which system, classical 7 center Hindu or Tibetan Buddhist which has 5 centers? Don't forget the centers (chakra means 'wheel' in Sanskrit) in Chinese Taoist Yoga and in Hopi Indian religion which recognizes 4. There is evidence of centers being recognized in ancient Egypt as well. The 10 Jewish Kabbalistic spheres (sephiroth or sapphires) can be correlated with the 7 Hindu centers:
Sahasrara > Kether
Ajna > Chochmah & Binah
Vishudha > Da'ath
Anahata > Geberah-Tiphereth-Chesed
Manipura > Hod & Netzach
Svadhisthana > Yesod
Muladhara > Malkuth

Chakras have different layers of reality from neural ganglion to loci of psychophysical, psychosexual, psychosocial and psychospiritual experiences. They represent seats of consciousness other than the brain center and they represent discrete forms of motivation in which cosmic forces interpenetrate the above-mentioned human motivations.

A Kundalini Hindu model is like having step-up transformers with more numerous windings (petals) at higher and higher centers. The Tibetan Buddhist model uses a tranformation of motivations like fire transforming water into steam which turns a turbine-generator inducing electricity which can in turn produce incandescent light or cool fluorescent light (to use a metaphor of my own).
India produced a static model. China produced a fluid circulation model. Tibet, in between both geographies combined static and fluid models.

Your question has more answers than the Hydra had heads.

--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: daytripper23]
#8651062 - 07/18/08 12:12 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

If you are going to post personalisms, and you are not going to participate in the discussion... it is only a matter of time before you will be banned.

If I were upset at your behavior, I would notify a Mod myself.

Instead, I am just telling you what you are doing wrong.

This forum works because it allows people to share their different opinions without your style of disruption.

If you plan on continuing our discussion in this thread, I highly suggest you stay on topic.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#8651075 - 07/18/08 12:15 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Which system, classical 7 center Hindu or Tibetan Buddhist which has 5 centers? Don't forget the centers (chakra means 'wheel' in Sanskrit) in Chinese Taoist Yoga and in Hopi Indian religion which recognizes 4. There is evidence of centers being recognized in ancient Egypt as well. The 10 Jewish Kabbalistic spheres (sephiroth or sapphires) can be correlated with the 7 Hindu centers:
Sahasrara > Kether
Ajna > Chochmah & Binah
Vishudha > Da'ath
Anahata > Geberah-Tiphereth-Chesed
Manipura > Hod & Netzach
Svadhisthana > Yesod
Muladhara > Malkuth

Chakras have different layers of reality from neural ganglion to loci of psychophysical, psychosexual, psychosocial and psychospiritual experiences. They represent seats of consciousness other than the brain center and they represent discrete forms of motivation in which cosmic forces interpenetrate the above-mentioned human motivations.

A Kundalini Hindu model is like having step-up transformers with more numerous windings (petals) at higher and higher centers. The Tibetan Buddhist model uses a tranformation of motivations like fire transforming water into steam which turns a turbine-generator inducing electricity which can in turn produce incandescent light or cool fluorescent light (to use a metaphor of my own).
India produced a static model. China produced a fluid circulation model. Tibet, in between both geographies combined static and fluid models.

Your question has more answers than the Hydra had heads.

Thank you for your detailed reply Markos. I was hoping someone would mention the multiple meanings/purposes for chacras and the different cultures who use variations on the theme.

Isn't there another school with 11 chakras?

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8651078 - 07/18/08 12:16 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SyntheticMInd said:
during sleep paralysis/entering into astral projection the lower part of my body begins to vibrate intensely, it almost feels like one of those electric massagers is going off inside of my body.

I personally don't like to throw labels on such experiences, especially those that can't be accurately defined and easily expressed. maybe we do have an "energy body", made up of multiple central points that receive and transmit various forms energy. who knows.

as for new age hippie shit

it's a fun story

I suspect astral projection can be defined as imaginary as well... but that is a subject for another thread.

Fun video!

Post Extras:

thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: backfromthedead]
#8651094 - 07/18/08 12:21 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

backfromthedead said:
The lower energy centers on me are always buzzing and swirling. Especially around other people, and groups of people. I had to leave a bar not to long ago because I felt uncomfortably opened. Like I was spilling everywhere. Chakras...?? Sure. I feel em, whatever they are.

word i know exactly what your talking about on that one they will diffinatly buzz or youll feel warmths that feel like ...

as for healing random people fuck no thats too much fucking word i pick my battles i tried that once then my whole healing circle felt the pain and we all shared in this horrible shoulder pain that left us all drained and i had take it away from them. Magic people keep their shit secret for the most part. I will admit theres deffinatly better ones then me and theres reasons for that. Reiki healing exists

--------------------

"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: thedudenj]
#8651112 - 07/18/08 12:26 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

thedudenj said:

word i know exactly what your talking about on that one they will diffinatly buzz or youll feel warmths that feel like ...

I agree. Focus on a 'chakra' for long enough and you will feel something. But if you focus on ANY part of your body for long enough you will feel something. Our body and mind are connected and if we shift our awareness to our body, sensation is innevitable.

Quote:

as for healing random people fuck no thats too much fucking word i pick my battles i tried that once then my whole healing circle felt the pain and we all shared in this horrible shoulder pain that left us all drained and i had take it away from them. Magic people keep their shit secret for the most part. I will admit theres deffinatly better ones then me and theres reasons for that. Reiki healing exists

Magic people keep their shit secret? Then why are you revealing your tricks?

Reiki healing DOES exist... but is it more effective than say, a placebo? I'd like to see the research. Link please?

Post Extras:

daytripper23
?

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8651161 - 07/18/08 12:36 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Cervantes I am telling you to stop wrongly accusing me. Its insulting.

I am calling you on this one cervantes. Put your money where your mouth is instead of playing the martyr. If I infracted any rule, tell a moderator, otherwise quit proclaiming it.

Like I said its not your place police the boards vigilante style. If you've got anything to say about my conduct pertaining to the forum rules, you should yourself obey the rules and seek the mods.

I would rather face the actual system of rules, than what you proclaim them to be. If I am banned then so be it. I am calling you out on this. You challenged my integrity and I wish to face this, rather than stand for your insults.

Be a man and either stand for your challenge, or take it back.

Post Extras:

Diploid
Cuban

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: daytripper23]
#8651292 - 07/18/08 01:05 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Correct me if I am wrong but you seem to be searching for some kind of validation rather than a philosophy or practice?

As has already been pointed out to you, this is a personalism and it's against the rules in this forum.

What someone is searching for or not has no bearing whatever on whether or not what they're saying is true or false. That's why it's off limits. Just like pointing out that your debating opponent's tie is ugly has no bearing on the validity of his or her statements.

Discuss the topic, not the people.

And please follow the rules. You can read them here:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4526664/an/0/page/0

--------------------
Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.

Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8651328 - 07/18/08 01:17 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I suspect astral projection can be defined as imaginary as well... but that is a subject for another thread.

the awareness within that state is certainly real. as for the dream world, it may be a manifestation of imagination. or maybe... yeah, for another thread.

Post Extras:

thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8651438 - 07/18/08 01:49 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

well part of what gives a medicine man or shaman their greatest power is the placebo effect. mind over matter, same with Ayahuasca sure it has medicine in it but when it comes down to it the true healing work isnt done by the stuff its dont by the healer conveying healing to the open person. I know people that think P torch cactus tar has a placebo effect as where other people i have given it to think its the shit!!! I can say the people that i gave it too that thinkk its just placebo have closed minds and i wouldnt even touch on their soul for healing cause its bad.

quiet frankly im beyond the point in my life where i need to feel like i gota prove stuff to myself and other people.

also the only people that i let in my healing circle are people with high levels a devotion and also spiritual puriety. Its groovy cause we sit tripping on the same stuff together being in differnt stats of the US but on the same stuff when only one of us took it.

for example during a healing session i threw a rock into my friends eye cutting it open causing his actually eye ball and the area around it to bleed. He went blind, then saw Amazing CEV from that eye for the rest of the night when he awoke he had better vision in that eye then his other and no scaring he did have cut wound on the part of his face for a few days but that healed as i said scarless. thats something ill be honest i can just do to everyone at any time im not jesus. ill qoute a reiki healer woman i met at the reality sandwhich evoler party when she had more people to heal then she could in the time she was there and had to tell people no. People have limits i think its silly to think that just cause someone has an ability they can do it for everyone in the world at any time.

--------------------

"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: thedudenj]
#8651461 - 07/18/08 01:56 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

thedudenj said:
well part of what gives a medicine man or shaman their greatest power is the placebo effect. mind over matter, same with Ayahuasca sure it has medicine in it but when it comes down to it the true healing work isnt done by the stuff its dont by the healer conveying healing to the open person. I know people that think P torch cactus tar has a placebo effect as where other people i have given it to think its the shit!!! I can say the people that i gave it too that thinkk its just placebo have closed minds and i wouldnt even touch on their soul for healing cause its bad.

So you admit it might BE a placebo... but you say you won't heal people who think it IS a placebo? Odd.

What if a person BELIEVES in the POWER of PLACEBO? Wouldn't that be as good as believing in magic?

Quote:

quiet frankly im beyond the point in my life where i need to feel like i gota prove stuff to myself and other people.

Then why are you doing just that?

Look, if you can't PROVE it, it might not work the way you say it does. Understand?

Quote:

also the only people that i let in my healing circle are people with high levels a devotion and also spiritual puriety.

Good tripping partners are important... but I find it boring to only trip with people who agree with me.

Quote:

for example during a healing session i threw a rock into my friends eye cutting it open causing his actually eye ball and the area around it to bleed. He went blind, then saw Amazing CEV from that eye for the rest of the night when he awoke he had better vision in that eye then his other and no scaring he did have cut wound on the part of his face for a few days but that healed as i said scarless. thats something ill be honest i can just do to everyone at any time im not jesus.

I've been told the eye heals faster than any other part of the body. I see no magic... but I am glad you didn't loose a friend in that endeavor... and I'll confess it makes a very cool story.

Post Extras:

numonkei
Back! From thedigestive tractof dave theiguana!

Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 2,451
Loc: A Tree
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8651476 - 07/18/08 02:02 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Many people have made upwards of a million dollars getting people to think they are aligned with chakra manipulation.

If anything, it's likely a psychosomatic effect. Many people get similar feelings, as explained by chakra information conduits, but many others also get similar feelings and describe it in anatomically correct physiological terms.

I think it's prehistoric bullshit. OF COURSE energy flows through these places of the body, but the significances attributed to each individually seem arbitrary at best, and dangerous to someone who diverts real medical attention at worst. This concept divides the whole of the body into sectors disregarding the interrelated nature of the organism.

It's a nice thought, though. :shrug:

Practically useless. I've never found any significance of this concept myself; sober, sick, hallucinogenically altered, ect.

~Monk

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8651549 - 07/18/08 02:17 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
openning means relaxing and releasing with abiding awareness at a fixed location.
chakkras can be anything or anywhere bu are traditionally inline along the spinal column or midline of the body.
they are useful for meditative practice.

Allignment of the spine seems like a good thing. Humans are the only mamals I can think of who fight the natural curvature of our own spines... and since the spine holds the electrical/nervous system which communicates with the brain... it seems logical that one would like to keep the spine as stacked as possible. It could potentially aid in mobility AND intelligence.

But how are chakras useful for medatative practice? Just by giving you ONE thing to focus on... to aid in quieting other thoughts? Why chakras?

Cervantes;
you may or may not accept the premise that mental processing involves a current sensory image overlaid by a series of fading images and associated memory fragments, but this is actually true.

if you can imagine this, then you might be able to imagine what might occur if a single point of concentration were held:
interference patterns in the cortex that are related to the focussed area will build upon the circular or spherical area,
and a variety of mysterious but related geometries and colors will form, namely spokes, petals florets and fractals,
and contrasting colors like yellow and purple etc.

this natural occurrance is not easy to sustain, especially if the meditator is impressed by the geometric result!
because the meditator has to apprehend only the cause and ignore the effect - the interference pattern from sustained concentration will break up in the fading train, it only exists as a froth resulting from the concentration and is not soid of its own accord.

as the meditation proceeds, through relaxing into and from the point of concentration with the breath, a mental state shift will occur
extending the fadeout time or increasing the trails of signals in the cortex, and the concentration effort actually becomes
a bit easier as the one pointedness effort itself becomes extended.

the stronger concentration and longer fadeous cause the interference zone to increase from the point of focus and the side effect of that
will be an enlargement of the geometric pattern, or apparent (vision of or sensation of) openning of the chakkra.

Essentially any point of focus can be a chakkra, the spinal proximity is largely irrelevant except that straight
is more healthful and easier to sit with, but quadriplegics with no spine to speak of can do well at this kind of mental work.

yogically, openning of chakkras is paralleled with increasing physical and mental health, but it is also steeped in mumbo jumbo
which is why i am certain that a person like you will balk at any claims.

I still reccommend that you try it with awareness and without any preconceived notions or superstitions. you may be pleasantly surprised
- but this thing, mind, is very consistent in its behavior and the openning chakkra effect of concentration is entirely natural
(logical if you can accept the first premise of mental operations which I mentioned above).

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: numonkei]
#8651618 - 07/18/08 02:28 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

also i might add you attitude

Mod Edit: NO PERSONALISM!

What is so hard to get about discussing the topic but not the people?

Next one gets a ban. This is an interesting thread that doesn't deserve to be derailed by people who have to bring irrelevant personal observations into the discussion.

Discuss the topic and leave the people out of the discussion!

Edited by Diploid (07/18/08 02:40 PM)

Post Extras:

daytripper23
?

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8651622 - 07/18/08 02:29 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Mod Edit: NO PERSONALISMS!

Edited by Diploid (07/18/08 02:43 PM)

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8651666 - 07/18/08 02:39 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:

Cervantes;
you may or may not accept the premise that mental processing involves a current sensory image overlaid by a series of fading images and associated memory fragments, but this is actually true.

if you can imagine this, then you might be able to imagine what might occur if a single point of concentration were held:
interference patterns in the cortex that are related to the focussed area will build upon the circular or spherical area,
and a variety of mysterious but related geometries and colors will form, namely spokes, petals florets and fractals,
and contrasting colors like yellow and purple etc.

this natural occurrance is not easy to sustain, especially if the meditator is impressed by the geometric result!
because the meditator has to apprehend only the cause and ignore the effect - the interference pattern from sustained concentration will break up in the fading train, it only exists as a froth resulting from the concentration and is not soid of its own accord.

as the meditation proceeds, through relaxing into and from the point of concentration with the breath, a mental state shift will occur
extending the fadeout time or increasing the trails of signals in the cortex, and the concentration effort actually becomes
a bit easier as the one pointedness effort itself becomes extended.

the stronger concentration and longer fadeous cause the interference zone to increase from the point of focus and the side effect of that
will be an enlargement of the geometric pattern, or apparent (vision of or sensation of) openning of the chakkra.

Essentially any point of focus can be a chakkra, the spinal proximity is largely irrelevant except that straight
is more healthful and easier to sit with, but quadriplegics with no spine to speak of can do well at this kind of mental work.

yogically, openning of chakkras is paralleled with increasing physical and mental health, but it is also steeped in mumbo jumbo
which is why i am certain that a person like you will balk at any claims.

I still reccommend that you try it with awareness and without any preconceived notions or superstitions. you may be pleasantly surprised
- but this thing, mind, is very consistent in its behavior and the openning chakkra effect of concentration is entirely natural
(logical if you can accept the first premise of mental operations which I mentioned above).

You too, have me wrong. But your personalisms were well covered... and I feel you pick fair fights.

I actually agree with most of what you said... and when I disagree, it is usually a semantic disagreement.

RGV, let me talk like a far-out hippie for a bit: I think you and I are on a similar spiritual plane... but when I express myself on these boards, I am a yang to your yin.

Ok... I'm done with that hippie talk.

Don't assume you know what I do or do not believe... not based on my posts alone.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: daytripper23]
#8651688 - 07/18/08 02:44 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Its because I said "you seem to be searching"?

Quote:

"Correct me if I am wrong but you seem to be searching for some kind of validation rather than a philosophy or practice?"

What if I had said instead:

"Correct me if I am wrong but your post seems to beg the question of validation rather than a philosophic practice?"

If you had said THAT, you wouldn't have broken a rule.

Quote:

So this is truly the difference between something being offensive or non-offensive? If I said the acceptable phrase, Cervantes would have no reason to be offended?

Who said I was offended? You are delving into personalisms again. :nonono:

If I WERE offended, your post would not have offended me... I would have had to offend myself. It is the eye of the beholder, not the post, which is able to offend.

Quote:

You must get a real kick out of this one dipper:

Do you or do you NOT understand what a personalism is?

I am TRYING to KEEP you from getting yourself BANNED over a tiddly-wink rule.

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8651698 - 07/18/08 02:47 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

which assumption do you find inappropriate?
or is it my female side that is teasing you.

I would chakk it up to thinking too lingamly.

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8651718 - 07/18/08 02:49 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

i guess a better way to put what im saying is chakras play an important role in Energy healing cause its the basis.

and the whole system of charkas was developed most liking from people experiencing meta physical energy then categorizing it and placing it places that things associate to thru observation over many many years

--------------------

"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Post Extras:

daytripper23
?

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8651732 - 07/18/08 02:52 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

What if I said your posts reak of douchery?

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8651737 - 07/18/08 02:54 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
which assumption do you find inappropriate?
or is it my female side that is teasing you.

I found nothing inappropriate about your assumptions... in fact unlike the others who have made assumptions about me, yours were based on things I have actually said on these forums.

However, this is not the forum to make assumptions about ME... rather it is the place to make assumprtions about my POSTS.

Quote:

I would chakk it up to thinking too lingamly.

I would too, if 'lingamly' were a word. It is not.

Google it, and see for yourself.

Post Extras:

Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8651740 - 07/18/08 02:54 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Though I have been lumped in with the "skeptics" in this forum, IRL I've been practicing Tantra for four years. I have felt the movement of kundalini energy (or what I interpreted as such, based upon my framework), and had some astonishing experiences with Tantra meditation to increase and open to this energy.

Do I KNOW that chakras exist? No. Am I certain that what I feel is actual energy? No.

I think that the chakras are useful tools for developing focus and body awareness. They may or may not be real organizations or groupings of our life force. I find it interesting to compare the human nervous system to the chakras:

Perhaps this system was simply an early interpretation of the organization of our nervous system?

It truly doesn't matter to me either way. My interest in Tantra is centered in the desire to experience my body and my sexuality in a congruent manner. It works. If the particular terms or concepts involved in that are inaccurate or inapplicable, so be it. :shrug:

Post Extras:

thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: daytripper23]
#8651741 - 07/18/08 02:54 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

that sounds like personalism. But you know im only speaking from countless personal experiences that lead me to these notions. tho i dont think your saying im the cause of the douchery

--------------------

"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: daytripper23]
#8651746 - 07/18/08 02:55 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
What if I said your posts reak of douchery?

You would be fine... if FLAMING were not against the rules... see, the word 'douchery' reflects back on the poster... not the post.

You could say my posts reek of BULLSHIT... but not douchery.

AND if you can't get back on topic, I bet you'll get your ass banned anyway.

Post Extras:

thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8651758 - 07/18/08 02:58 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

btw Phallic=lingamly any who wait dont we have a whole study on the relation of chakras and stuff... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexology

http://www.kheper.net/topics/chakras/secondary.html

and why is it the reflexologist say the same thing as the tantric people about chakra or points in the spine?

--------------------

"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Edited by thedudenj (07/18/08 03:00 PM)

Post Extras:

Diploid
Cuban

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: daytripper23]
#8651761 - 07/18/08 02:58 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

If your point of view had any merit, you'd address the points being brought up instead of going to name calling and personalisms which don't support your position in any way.

In fact, this type of debate undermines your position by demonstrating how your ideas are so immature and poorly thought out that they can't be defended in any other way than by school yard name calling.

A defensible point of view can be debated without resorting to this "neener neener, you're stoopid" type of debate.

If you're looking for a ban, keep this up and you'll get one.

Post Extras:

Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: thedudenj]
#8651779 - 07/18/08 03:02 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

thedudenj said:
btw Phallic=lingamly any who wait dont we have a whole study on the relation of chakras and stuff... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexology

http://www.kheper.net/topics/chakras/secondary.html

and why is it the reflexologist say the same thing as the tantric people about chakra or points in the spine?

Because Tantra is ancient, whereas reflexology is a modern practice. :shrug:

Post Extras:

daytripper23
?

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8651781 - 07/18/08 03:02 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

damn straight I'm immature, I'm alive.

what is the difference between noting that cervantes posts reak of douchery, and my second "acceptable response"?

Post Extras:

Diploid
Cuban

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: daytripper23]
#8651787 - 07/18/08 03:04 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

How about we drop this childishness and get back to the topic?

Post Extras:

daytripper23
?

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8651796 - 07/18/08 03:06 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Well I did happen to check the rules, and they do not clarify this.

Post Extras:

Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: daytripper23]
#8651811 - 07/18/08 03:09 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Avoid personalisms. We're all human and nobody expects a completely sterile discussion, but please try to keep to the topic, and leave the folks you're talking to personally out of things.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: daytripper23]
#8651815 - 07/18/08 03:09 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Bye.

See you in 24.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Veritas]
#8651831 - 07/18/08 03:20 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Though I have been lumped in with the "skeptics" in this forum, IRL I've been practicing Tantra for four years. I have felt the movement of kundalini energy (or what I interpreted as such, based upon my framework), and had some astonishing experiences with Tantra meditation to increase and open to this energy.

Do I KNOW that chakras exist? No. Am I certain that what I feel is actual energy? No.

I think that the chakras are useful tools for developing focus and body awareness. They may or may not be real organizations or groupings of our life force. I find it interesting to compare the human nervous system to the chakras:

Perhaps this system was simply an early interpretation of the organization of our nervous system?

It truly doesn't matter to me either way. My interest in Tantra is centered in the desire to experience my body and my sexuality in a congruent manner. It works. If the particular terms or concepts involved in that are inaccurate or inapplicable, so be it.

I am happy you posted this.

Very interesting... and oddly logical. :wink:

Post Extras:

thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8651848 - 07/18/08 03:26 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

quiet frankly i was talking to a friend over the internet and she mentioned she was sick and when she walked away from the comp i felt sharp pains thru fingers i looked at that chart and the paints coincided with her illness. but it was just a coincidence points coinciding with other points.

any who i think this just goes back to the basic debates with Socrates, the city and sophists.

if i get banned again i will drink a cup of datura and sacrific a cock.

--------------------

"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: thedudenj]
#8651978 - 07/18/08 03:54 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

thedudenj said:

any who i think this just goes back to the basic debates with Socrates, the city and sophists.

This IS the Philosophy forum. :wink:

Post Extras:

thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8651983 - 07/18/08 03:58 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

pretty much so lol

--------------------

"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: thedudenj]
#8652004 - 07/18/08 04:04 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

the nervous system as depicted is the wiring.
the experience of the wiring is in the brain.

point for point
from the wiring (Homunculus)

which provides a kind of statistical somatosensory map that is sort of like this

the chakkras like I mentioned are secondary effects of concentration
when the sustained brain waves create standing interference and it makes geopmetric and spherical floral etc visions along with stimulating memories.

it is useful to consider that interference is also at work in the other mysterious psychophysical eastern medicine called acupuncture
- in which the meridians are taught to be energy channels.

they are not energy channels but memory channels so the practicioners can remember where the points are.

interference in the brain, however, when points are stimulated, create peaks of energy at the points that will cause
healing tensions and relaxations elswhere in the body from where they are pricked.

if you use the homunculous to see where a result can be - pick the point exactly between two points where a needle is put.

other results come from interference with more than 2 needles.

this is not mystical energy so much as mystical systems to remember to take benefits from something that has been observed but little understood.

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

BlindSophist
drunken preacher

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 20,234
Loc: SF Bay Area

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8652044 - 07/18/08 04:17 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

Cervantes said:
If I knew what the replies would be in advance, I wouldn't have needed to start the thread.

You do remarkably well, in the starting post, at asking the most absurd and misdirected possible questions about chakras. Being that you are a reg here with 8000+ posts, I find it hard to imagine you didn't do this on purpose. If you are honestly not trolling, I apologize for my presumption.

Trolling is grey territory. As a former Mod, I know this all too well.

Every poster who seeks a reply is technically trolling.

But I am trolling for discussion. I have told the truth about how I feel about chakras... and I am asking for others to do the same. Yes I am looking for debate. I like to debate. BUT, I'm not gonna' slide into personalisms (like you almost did) nor am I going to flame anybody. Don't assume you know why I start a thread... not by my chosen topic alone.

In this forum, it is best to start a thread with a debatable statement or question. This creates interest... and draws attention from more than just the forum regulars.

It is slow in here today, so I made a thread that would draw more hippies. New-Age/Buddhist threads certainly attract more flies than Christianity threads.

So yeah, I am a troll. But if I am a troll, what does that make you?

I'm just going to drop in one last time, very late, to make the point that you responded to my statement about trolling (at length, in fact) and then ignored the parts of the very same post that were relevant to discussion.

This is not a personalism, just an observation.

Otherwise, I am glad to see that the point I was trying to make has since been made by folks who are smarter and better-articulated than I am. :laugh:

--------------------
Love of one is a barbarism; for it is exercised at the expense of all others. The love of God, too.
--Friedrich Nietzsche

Edited by Tchan909 (07/18/08 04:20 PM)

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: BlindSophist]
#8652161 - 07/18/08 04:48 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I'm just going to drop in one last time, very late, to make the point that you responded to my statement about trolling (at length, in fact) and then ignored the parts of the very same post that were relevant to discussion.

Jesus Fucking Christ!

Is there something in the water today?

You accused me of being a Troll...

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I find it hard to imagine you didn't do this on purpose. If you are honestly not trolling, I apologize for my presumption.

See?

AND then... after I explain myself... you act upset that I didn't respond to the rest of your stupid fucking post!?!

You know why I didn't respond to the rest of your stupid fucking post?

Because you called me a fucking troll.

Do you need any further fucking explanation? 'Cause you shouldn't.

I'm done being all nice when people ignore the personalism rule in here.

DEBATE about the fucking POST and NOT about the fucking POSTER.

Get it?

Jeezus!

Y'all can stop trying to get me to break a rule 'cause I am not that dumb... anymore. :wink:

Post Extras:

BlindSophist
drunken preacher

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 20,234
Loc: SF Bay Area

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8652177 - 07/18/08 04:52 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Whoa nelly! :shocked:

--------------------
Love of one is a barbarism; for it is exercised at the expense of all others. The love of God, too.
--Friedrich Nietzsche

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8652210 - 07/18/08 04:59 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Cool post RGV! Interesting stuff.

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8652240 - 07/18/08 05:08 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

heated threads are almost as good as sex.

if personalisms were allowed here I think I would have a mental orgasm.

Post Extras:

thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8652247 - 07/18/08 05:10 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

i have to agree its linked to memory with out a doubt.
I like the thoughts that can send a shiver down your spine

--------------------

"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8652283 - 07/18/08 05:19 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SyntheticMInd said:
heated threads are almost as good as sex.

if personalisms were allowed here I think I would have a mental orgasm.

They once WERE allowed in here... the rule changed and I didn't know about it, so I came in here one day, spouting my own personalisms... and a Mod called me on it.

Once you know the rule, it SHOULD be easy to follow.

I love heated threads too. The Politics forum if full of 'em... and yet people seem to obey the rules better in there.

Odd...

There is no reason why we can't have a good, heated debate in here... unless people keep breaking the rules.

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8652301 - 07/18/08 05:23 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

seeing people break the rules just adds to the fun, just not when you're the one breaking them.

it arouses my attention.

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: thedudenj]
#8652308 - 07/18/08 05:25 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I like the thoughts that can send a shiver down your spine

dancing next to heavy subs works miracles for moi :grin:

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8652330 - 07/18/08 05:35 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

So... back on topic... for now.

What exactly do chakras have to do with sex, and tantric sex in particular?

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8652332 - 07/18/08 05:36 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

let's just say
that cervantes is right and anybody who challenges that has committed a "personalism" and deserves to be hurled reversing insults.

but also
anybody can become like cervantes in his own way, because that is the right way.

oops this might be construed as a "personalism", but coming from me
you know that it is not

this also is a bit unfair.
odd thing

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8652336 - 07/18/08 05:37 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

this also is a bit unfair.

you got 9k posts broha

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8652353 - 07/18/08 05:44 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
let's just say
that cervantes is right and anybody who challenges that has committed a "personalism" and deserves to be hurled reversing insults.

Did you drink the Cool-Aid too Red?

WTF is this?

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
which is why i am certain that a person like you will balk at any claims.

Looks like a personalism to me. I don't make this stuff up.

That ^^^ was a false assumption... based on a personalism.

Oh, and notice how I didn't balk at a single claim you made in THAT post? I said I agreed... except for a few semantic details.

So not only did you use a personalism to make a prediction... your prediction turned out wrong. :wink:

Cerv: 1
Mind Readers: 0

I suspect you meant no harm... but you still broke the SAME rule we were discussing in this VERY thread.

Look, I don't think everybody should be sent to Turkish prison for using personalisms... I'd just like to make a few posts in a row without one being hurled at me... since they're against the rules... and all.

And you of all people should know better.

You choose your own words.

And WTF do chakras have to do with sex?

Edited by Cervantes (07/18/08 06:00 PM)

Post Extras:

thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8652354 - 07/18/08 05:45 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
So... back on topic... for now.

What exactly do chakras have to do with sex, and tantric sex in particular?

what doesnt... when it comes to chakras

--------------------

"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Post Extras:

MarkostheGnostic
Elder

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 1 day, 23 hours

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8652460 - 07/18/08 06:15 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

"Isn't there another school with 11 chakras?"
Whole strings of chakras above the head, lesser known ones in the hands, knees, feet, but usually a psychic-astral physiology that roughly corresponds to the Brahmaranda - axis of Brahman - the spine becomes the axis mundi, axis of the world in one's integrative meditation of microcosm with macrocosm.

Most people are trying to isolate 'feelings' or 'sensations' with these psychic centers when those aspects are tied too closely to the physical body. They're talking about psychophysical experiences at the first three centers when the Kundalini-Shakti or the Tibetan tommo (Inner Fire) is activated producing psychic heat, for example. More 'subtle' things occur through subtle stimulations at the anal-genital centers, which in turn have an effect on the subconscious of the yogi and his/her effect on other people through subliminal gestures, microexpressions, etc. The astral or subtle body may be experienced by some people who are raised in that model, but western people are programmed to use the model of the subconscious rather than an astral 'sheath' as classic yoga uses.

The discrete awareness of 'astral currents' through astral nerves (nadis) IS an experience. I experienced this when I ate Hawaiin Wood Rose seeds years ago. My friend Ed fought the experience and developed terrible pain in his abdomen (Manipura chakra, which has a 'knot' [granthi] which he would not allow the energy to rise higher than). I have experienced an inner visualization of the Kundalini as a silvery-blue line rising up my spine, straightening my body as it rose, with attendent 'sensations.' To call such experiences imagination is only to rename them with a word which usually denotes a lesser degree of reality than the mental awareness of, say, a physical event. It does nothing to nullify the experience, only to assign it a value in one's own scale of Reality. Yoga descriptions followed from experiences, they were not simply made up out of unfounded imagination.

If production of certain experiences can be controlled, and if those experiences have certain practical applications (e.g., quelling hunger/thirst, producing physical heat or psychic heat which could occasion a mystical experience), then the model is a useful one. Consider the Rutherford and Bohr models of the atom which were of sufficient usefulness, if not accuracy, to split and fuse atoms. Atoms don't 'look' like anything because 'seeing' is an irrelevant mode for the apperception of quantum levels of Reality. Astral bodies, nadis, chakras, Don Juanian "gaps" and "fibers" emanting from a "luminous egg" and lots of other astral models which appear to those with "seeing," 'second sight,' or clairvoyance may be attune to genuine astral flora and fauna of the astral planes, or they are 'suggested' and seen just like hypnosis can be used through the subconscious to produce positive hallucinations. The causes of experiences are called into question. Remember Neo:

BOY: "Your spoon does not bend because it is just that, a spoon. Mine bends because there is no spoon, just my mind."
[Neo watches as it curls into a knot].
"Link yourself to the spoon. Become the spoon and bend yourself." [Neo nods, again holding up his spoon].

NEO: "There is no spoon. Right."

Hey, compared to Eternity, Mt. Everest is as ephemeral as a cloud. Some elements have a half-life of microseconds, yet they still exist. I am enlightenened sometimes for a couple of seconds. How do you want to rate the Reality of chakras, using what level of Reality as a frame of reference? Ideas are Real before they become physical realities, some ideas are real and cannot manifest physically. I can eat pie, but I cannot eat Pi (3.14159_). Both are Real. Chakras are Real and chakra models are not Real. Atoms are Real, atomic models are not Real.

We are co-creators of Reality! "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, you are gods'?" -John 10:34 (Jesus allegedly quoting Psalm 82:6).

--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#8654196 - 07/19/08 05:29 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
"Isn't there another school with 11 chakras?"
....
Most people are trying to isolate 'feelings' or 'sensations' with these psychic centers when those aspects are tied too closely to the physical body. They're talking about psychophysical experiences at the first three centers when the Kundalini-Shakti or the Tibetan tommo (Inner Fire) is activated producing psychic heat, for example. ....

The discrete awareness of 'astral currents' through astral nerves (nadis) IS an experience. I experienced this when I ate Hawaiin Wood Rose seeds years ago. My friend Ed fought the experience and developed terrible pain in his abdomen (Manipura chakra, which has a 'knot' [granthi] which he would not allow the energy to rise higher than). ....

If production of certain experiences can be controlled, and if those experiences have certain practical applications (e.g., quelling hunger/thirst, producing physical heat or psychic heat which could occasion a mystical experience), then the model is a useful one. Consider the Rutherford and Bohr models of the atom which were of sufficient usefulness, if not accuracy, to split and fuse atoms. Atoms don't 'look' like anything because 'seeing' is an irrelevant mode for the apperception of quantum levels of Reality. Astral bodies, nadis, chakras, Don Juanian "gaps" and "fibers" emanting from a "luminous egg" and lots of other astral models which appear to those with "seeing," 'second sight,' or clairvoyance may be attune to genuine astral flora and fauna of the astral planes, or they are 'suggested' and seen just like hypnosis can be used through the subconscious to produce positive hallucinations. The causes of experiences are called into question. .....

yes many schools with many credos...

a person like me will remind a person like you that in buddhism, (see guilty of personalism again! - honesty is the best policy, and i remain dignified and leave the other person dignity too) it clouds matters when you lump feelings with sensations. Feelings are only pleasureable, painful or indifferent, while sensations can be all range of particularity and subtlety that the mind may experience.....

Astral currents and "nerves" are exactly the kind of thing you should be expected to detect as froth in mentation from sensation that fades more slowly, overlaps and creates a sustained result. especially if you have some psychedelic substance. (even more so if you are applying sustained concentration.) diffraction is a common interference effect, not the same as cerebral interference, but when two people observe a scene through a diffraction grating from a simmilar angle, they will see a very simmilar thing.
everything about chakkras and nadis is this way,

we apply concentration and or psychedelic, and while concentrating on one thing, as the mental state becomes more layered (diffracted) the fairly standard artifact appears.
as the state becomes more layered still (eg jhanas) the fairly standard artifact morphs in a fairly standard way.

the texts and teachers will remind you not to pay attention to the vision or artifact, if you do, you remove the source image (figuratively speaking) from the diffraction process, as if rotating the diffraction grating away from the original generative object.

you can say that the things viewed represent energy, but the energy that they represent is the mental energy, not actual "flow" of things from another dimension. mental energy is processed in a very consistent way.

what i am describing is a model of mental processes that is simmilar in accuracy and completeness as the Rutherford and Bohr models of the atom.
in a primitive but scientific way:
- it derives from the clarity of core buddhism (citta - from abhidhamma)
- anatomy (actual brain structures are vital to it)
- and from the evidence in neuro science (experiments on learning and behavior, sleep and deprivation, chemical effects, brain damage and removal experiments eeg's etc.),
and this model or view of mind/brain (which is just a consistent set of meanings for words and dynaic attributes for anatomical sturctures), which I keep repeating, helps see the interrelations between drugs, meditation and dreams (mental state - prolongation of fadeouts of signals);
as well as sensation, memory and thought (basic experience and association);
trails, loops and visions (layered phenomena - from slower fading moments);
and chakkras, acupuncture, and other "flow" oriented secret knowledges (where the interference between two apparently unrelated signals has an "unnexpected effect" but is repeatable - often leading to speculation about occult energy flows and fields).

any way I think there is a huge benefit to concentration meditation from any of the schools on any of the chakkras

--------------------
~~~~~

Edited by redgreenvines (07/19/08 05:36 AM)

Post Extras:

MarkostheGnostic
Elder

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 1 day, 23 hours

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8654269 - 07/19/08 06:52 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for the thoughtful, if not 'layered' response! I love you with all my stomach...er, throat...uh, I mean heart! :grin:

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Veritas]
#8654312 - 07/19/08 07:25 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Though I have been lumped in with the "skeptics" in this forum, IRL I've been practicing Tantra for four years. I have felt the movement of kundalini energy (or what I interpreted as such, based upon my framework), and had some astonishing experiences with Tantra meditation to increase and open to this energy.

Do I KNOW that chakras exist? No. Am I certain that what I feel is actual energy? No.

I think that the chakras are useful tools for developing focus and body awareness. They may or may not be real organizations or groupings of our life force. I find it interesting to compare the human nervous system to the chakras:

Perhaps this system was simply an early interpretation of the organization of our nervous system?

It truly doesn't matter to me either way. My interest in Tantra is centered in the desire to experience my body and my sexuality in a congruent manner. It works. If the particular terms or concepts involved in that are inaccurate or inapplicable, so be it.

No one wants a post like this Veritas. :lol:

--------------------

“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker

"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#8654348 - 07/19/08 07:49 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

i loved her post, as per usual
and I adore markthegnostic with my entire gnoses

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8654353 - 07/19/08 07:50 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I adore markthegnostic with my entire gnoses

You guys need a room.

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#8654367 - 07/19/08 08:00 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

all i kneed is the hankie for my gnoses, you two can keep the pankie

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

backfromthedead
Activated

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8654506 - 07/19/08 09:05 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

pankie

Tantra pankie, even...!! Dang. :shocked:

--------------------

Post Extras:

Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 4,200
Last seen: 36 minutes, 53 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: backfromthedead]
#8655397 - 07/19/08 01:13 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

To throw my two cents in, chakras are real, I have no doubt. At the same time, they don't exist in the same way a hole doesn't exist. No one ever feels a chakra, they feel the emotion moving through them. Kinda like water moves through a geyser. Body/emotion = Earth/water. There is no geyser.

It's a subjective experience of course, so there's no substitute for direct experience. The only way to experience "chakras" self-objectively (can I use that word?) is to keep your eyes peeled, or meditate. I can look back over my life before I knew what chakras were, and remember lots of times they opened spontaneously, exactly where the pictures show them. Any time I've felt good or bad, there's chakras at work, though it's when I feel REALLY good, or bad, or angry that they are most apparent. In this sense, a mediator has nothing on anyone, except perhaps a concerted direction (or not).

So what is open? When a person experiences positive emotion (which always comes from a chakra) there is a degree of openness. When a person feels negative emotion, there is also a degree of openness. It is only when a person is emotionally numb that a chakra can be said to be closed, though there's gray area, and if all the chakras were "shut down" that would be dead. A chakra can be wide open, which creates feelings of ecstasy. a chakra can be too open, which goes beyond ecstasy, and can cause cold sweats, trembling, dizziness, etc.

I also agree with Marcos, chakras aren't carbon copies of each other. The more awareness I have, the more open they are, the more noticeable the difference between them.

There is circumstantial evidence for them. if you've ever seen a woman put her had to her chest when she is surprised, this is a reaction to her heart chakra. Macho guys puff up their chest as a response to their solar plexus chakra. What is a sigh? I can only describe it as an upward (or downward) movement of emotional energy, due to stuck energy generally located in the heart or solar plexus chakras. I work part time at a restaurant, and after the rush hour is over, I always see people sighing, getting rid of that experience. People do all kinds of quirky things that give away their emotional state. Singing can open the throat chakra. Fucking will defiantly open the sacral chakra unless it's "routine sex". Dancing, especially with plenty of hip movement will open the sacral chakra.

As far as meditation goes, I was one of the emotionally numb people. I got to a point in my life where there wasn't a lot of pleasure, and I was able to keep my pain stuffed down. Living this way creates patterns that are reinforced. This is why discovering chakra meditation was such a breakthrough for me. It's a mixed bag, of course, but being able to acknowledge fear and experience it, much of my emotional body has been "cleared out". Meditation isn't a substitute for experience, but it makes a huge difference, especially for people who have a rocky road behind them.

There's a huge difference between me now, and me 5 years ago. Because my lower three chakras are open, I'm generally calm and centered, I enjoy myself and experience much less social anxiety, I don't take crap form people anymore. My heart chakra is usually open, but it's not consistent. Contrast that with before, it was never open unless something really bad happened, like a death in the family or something. And I held back tears. Looking back it seems so stupid, though I know there were reasons. Holding back tears = holding a chakra closed. Crying usually comes from the heart or solar plexus, but that emotion can also emanate from any of the chakras. Anger usually creates a release of energy from below that moves up into the solar plexus and/or chest, though if a person is really mad, it will move up into the throat (yelling) and head.

As far as how many major chakras there are, I experience seven, but I can move them around a bit, and I suspect that each vertebrae represents a chakra. If you examine a spinal chart, it's broken up into 5 distinct areas which correspond with the lower 5 chakras, so the nervous system seems to be a main factor, though the way they're experienced during meditation will have much to do with pre-concieved opinions. Still, it seems that emotion from each of these spinal regions generally manifests as a nexus, with a center. Once one of these centers is found, meditation can open it, and it can be undeniably strong. Same goes with the head chakras. And there is a prolonged after effect from daily meditation. Eventually the chakras will begin to stay open, meaning the amount of time a person spends aware, feeling good, etc. is lengthened and enhanced. Even bad moods aren't that bad, they are opportunities to get to know the self better.

I've never found a book that really helped me meditate, but the chakra audio from Ideagasms was nothing but good. It's got a 60 day money back guarantee... nothing to loose. I'm not advertising, it's just that without that audio, I probably wouldn't have bothered sticking with it. It can take a couple weeks before anything is felt, and months before the evidence is strong enough for the mind to being changing beliefs, perhaps years before they seem reasonably "open". That website has several points of interest, and if some of them are a turn off, look past it.

One other point, which is important IMO, is that many diagrams show chakras from the front, and this is misleading because the five middle chakras also have corresponding chakras in the back. Front chakras are feminine, back chakras are masculine. Front chakras are more apparent, and generally provide a more expressive experience, and because of this predominant feminine view of chakras we end up with the stereotype of a feminine guy in tights teaching meditation class.

--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Rahz]
#8655496 - 07/19/08 01:37 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

love the sound of ideagasms
oh oh oh oh oh;)

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8655502 - 07/19/08 01:38 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

The brain is our real sex organ, IMO. :shrug:

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Rahz]
#8655515 - 07/19/08 01:41 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I make it a rule to doubt the man who sez I have no doubt

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#8655526 - 07/19/08 01:43 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

true,
doubt is one of the assets no-one should be denied.

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Veritas]
#8655532 - 07/19/08 01:44 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
The brain is our real sex organ, IMO.

need I say more?
oh oh oh oh oh

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8655550 - 07/19/08 01:48 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Don't forget "ah ah ah," "eee eee," "ooo ooo ooh and "ai ai ai." :lol:

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#8655568 - 07/19/08 01:54 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:

The discrete awareness of 'astral currents' through astral nerves (nadis) IS an experience. I experienced this when I ate Hawaiin Wood Rose seeds years ago. My friend Ed fought the experience and developed terrible pain in his abdomen (Manipura chakra, which has a 'knot' [granthi] which he would not allow the energy to rise higher than). I have experienced an inner visualization of the Kundalini as a silvery-blue line rising up my spine, straightening my body as it rose, with attendent 'sensations.' To call such experiences imagination is only to rename them with a word which usually denotes a lesser degree of reality than the mental awareness of, say, a physical event. It does nothing to nullify the experience, only to assign it a value in one's own scale of Reality. Yoga descriptions followed from experiences, they were not simply made up out of unfounded imagination.

Cool post... however, I am gonna' nitpick at some of the things you have said. Mostly, I want to see if we can find some common semantics in which to communicate about this stuff... without offending an obnoxious amount of 'believers' or 'skeptics'.

You say 'The awareness of astral currents IS an experience'. I agree. Where our opinions seem to split is when it comes to the word 'imagination'.

An imaginary experience is just as much of an experience as a real experience. Weather it is imaginary or not... it is still an experience. If you feel something, you feel it.

As an artist, I am surprised you seem to hear the word 'imagination' as negative. I make a living by using my imagination. I hold the imagination in high respect. Imaginary things are real... they just are not tangible.

I am trying to figure out weather chakras are real, or imaginary.

If they are NOT real... why say they are? What good does THAT do?

Either way, I see chakras as a useful tool for those who are aware of them... however IF chakras ARE imaginary... perhaps there is a NEW, BETTER way to meditate to get SIMILAR results. A way grounded even more in reality... or in the actual nervous system. At the very least, I''d like to know if I were meditating on something imaginary... or on something real. Either way, I am STILL able to meditate. For me, meditating is quite useful EVEN when I can comprehend what I am actually meditating on. Or... I can always meditate on nothing... which is meditation too... no?

Quote:

If production of certain experiences can be controlled, and if those experiences have certain practical applications (e.g., quelling hunger/thirst, producing physical heat or psychic heat which could occasion a mystical experience), then the model is a useful one. Consider the Rutherford and Bohr models of the atom which were of sufficient usefulness, if not accuracy, to split and fuse atoms. Atoms don't 'look' like anything because 'seeing' is an irrelevant mode for the apperception of quantum levels of Reality.

And gravity according to Newton was enough to keep us planted on the ground. But Einstein came up with a BETTER way to describe gravity. One that allowed us to accurately venture far into space.

Just because there is a 1000's year old way of doing things does not mean there isn't a newer, more specific, and better way of doing the same thing.

:wink:

Edited by Cervantes (07/19/08 02:26 PM)

Post Extras:

Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8655569 - 07/19/08 01:54 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
So... back on topic... for now.

What exactly do chakras have to do with sex, and tantric sex in particular?

Tantric practice, specifically the Western version I've studied, utilizes the concept of chakras to enable visualization and characterization of our life force (Freud called it "libido"). Sex is one method of stirring this energy, and tantric meditation enables you to experience intense sexual energy throughout your body.

Usually we tense up as sexual excitement increases, which tends to isolate the most intense sensations in the genital area. Tantra teaches you to relax and open as excitement builds, rather than tensing and deliberately building towards an orgasm.

I posted about this several times when I first joined this forum, but there seemed to be little interest in the subject. If you would like to learn more about it, shoot me a PM.

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Veritas]
#8655575 - 07/19/08 01:56 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I am glad you were there when I needed you

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Veritas]
#8655638 - 07/19/08 02:18 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:

Usually we tense up as sexual excitement increases, which tends to isolate the most intense sensations in the genital area. Tantra teaches you to relax and open as excitement builds, rather than tensing and deliberately building towards an orgasm.

I just tell my friends, that if they want to keep going and going and going... "Do NOT squeeze your ass during sex."

Post Extras:

MarkostheGnostic
Elder

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 1 day, 23 hours

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8655855 - 07/19/08 03:54 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Note that I ended saying "unfounded imagination," which I intended to mean as something other than spontaneous imagination. Sorry if it wasn't clear. Perhaps I should have said 'random creation' to differentiate. Imagination is creativity from deeper-than-self-conscious processes. The dream-ego orchestrates dream scenarious to convey veiled symbolic messages using exquisite imagination. Surrealism is born of the dream-ego.

Nit-picking is fine (picking nits, which are the larvae of lice is gross, but extreme analysis is always welcome with me :smile:

). I was trying to convey that imagination IS an experience, the value of which differs from person to person. However, the chakra models are easily applied to psychophysical loci of emotional experience as they can be to physical experience, but who needs chakras for physical processes when we have organs and nerve plexi?

There are experiences of a personal nature that I won't post publically, in which centers are portals into complete domains of experience, metaphysically intended here. This goes beyond paranormal, which is to say, beyond 'psychic' into 'pnematic' realms of experience. So, when talking about loci of experience, loci are always in relation to a bounded area - a body - physical, astral, etheric, etc. depending upon the model. If humans are multidimensional, so are our chakras.

--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#8655955 - 07/19/08 04:25 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
If humans are multidimensional, so are our chakras.

But if chakras are imaginary...

:tongue:

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8656058 - 07/19/08 04:55 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

so are humans!!! :rofl2:

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

numonkei
Back! From thedigestive tractof dave theiguana!

Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 2,451
Loc: A Tree
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8656059 - 07/19/08 04:55 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I just tell my friends, that if they want to keep going and going and going... "Do NOT squeeze your ass during sex."

So true, so true.

The chakra concept allows some people to make more tangible the awareness of various bodily sectors. To, in effect, help draw borders between areas of the body and their respective sensations. More and stronger body control/awareness is crucial to tantric philosophy.

But actually, maybe the above thing about squeezing your ass is blocking the flow of energy from the root chakra at your spinebase/asshole, therefore causing your body to shut off the continuation of sex.

:strokebeard:

~Monk

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: numonkei]
#8656075 - 07/19/08 04:59 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Kiegles
do your kiegles and you will have great tone in your goodies

do your Kiegles and you won't end up messing in the streets later on (if you're lucky - well there's always depend adult protective underwear).

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8656089 - 07/19/08 05:04 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Q: What does 80 year old pussy taste like?

A: Depends...

(pause for laughs)

Post Extras:

numonkei
Back! From thedigestive tractof dave theiguana!

Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 2,451
Loc: A Tree
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8656103 - 07/19/08 05:09 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

^ =

= I'll be using that one!

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: numonkei]
#8656143 - 07/19/08 05:22 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

i won't think about that much until I'm 94

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 4,200
Last seen: 36 minutes, 53 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#8656553 - 07/19/08 07:26 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I make it a rule to doubt the man who sez I have no doubt

Probably not a bad rule. What I was trying to get across, is that they are as objective to my mind as my arms are. It would be crazy at this point, for me to doubt the existence of chakras, within the bounds of my geyser analogy.

My mantra is that where there is faith, there is doubt. There was a time when I was unsure. I had both faith and doubt. I have no faith that I have chakras for the same reason I have no faith I have arms. Of course you can see my arms... but I can "see" my chakras. If I need more experiential proof, I might as well just quit now.

--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace

Edited by Rahz (07/19/08 07:38 PM)

Post Extras:

Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 4,200
Last seen: 36 minutes, 53 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8656602 - 07/19/08 07:37 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
love the sound of ideagasms
oh oh oh oh oh;)

Stephane is quite the character.

There's this website called orsm.net, weekly videos, jokes, pics. That kinda site. They update on Thursdays, and I couldn't help but notice some of Stephane's content had been (illegally I assume) posted there. It's still up, so I guess it wouldn't hurt to link to it, especially since I've provided a link to his site. Keep in mind, this isn't porn, it's a clip from an instructional video.

Anyway: http://grab.orsm.net/php/movies.php?file=update20080717/amateur_fucking_amazing_orgasm.wmv

--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Rahz]
#8656617 - 07/19/08 07:41 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

that guy strikes me more as cocky rather than aware.. judging from some of his videos

maybe Im wrong

Post Extras:

Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 4,200
Last seen: 36 minutes, 53 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8656976 - 07/19/08 09:44 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yea, I forget about his Youtube stuff.

Cocky or confident?

Anyway, I don't think watching the videos will give any idea of what to expect from the chakra product. It's pretty humble in as much as a guided meditation should be, perhaps. It's not "about him". So if someone had an interest, and really wanted to experience chakras from an observed perspective, I'm saying that spending 25 minutes a day using his guided meditations would provide some proof of the nature of their existence, within several weeks. This can be verifyed while also being critical, in my experience.

There may be a few people who are tough cases, but I think that most people who have the inclination, and are willing to actually spend 25-30 minutes a day (average play time for the tracks), will find out what chakras are about. One question answered, and many more created. I'm not adept, but there's no need for faith or doubt in the existence of chakras.

--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Rahz]
#8657198 - 07/19/08 11:07 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Cocky or confident?

both? :lol:

anyways this is aside from the point...

do you have those audios on cd? would you be able to rip and share them? Im definitely intersted.

Post Extras:

Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 4,200
Last seen: 36 minutes, 53 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8657256 - 07/19/08 11:37 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I have them, but wouldn't feel good about sharing. It's a download, with a 60 day money back guarantee. If it does not provide proof of chakras, there's no reason not to get your money back. If it does prove them, and gives you a tool to help work with them, that must be worth something.

"Try it for 60 days, and if you don’t feel AMAZING, return it for a full refund and KEEP your customer’s only forum access."

Of course, even if they did prove chakras to you and you feel AMAZING, you could always get your money back anyway, if you had no morals issues regarding it. I'm not suggesting it, but it's possible.

--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Rahz]
#8657284 - 07/19/08 11:48 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
I have them, but wouldn't feel good about sharing.

ohhh

Im not so much looking for proof of chakras as I have some experiences of my own, but I would like widen my scope of knowledge...

oh well! maybe one day when I have the funds

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8657863 - 07/20/08 05:40 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I think it is utterly ridiculous to pay for chakkras

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Rahz]
#8657961 - 07/20/08 07:00 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I might as well just quit now.

Might be a good idea. Your word just isn't quite enough. If someones word was enough I would be broke and Christian and married right now. :lol:

Post Extras:

Diploid
Cuban

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8658003 - 07/20/08 07:26 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I think it is utterly ridiculous to pay for chakkras

Is it alright to lease them? :what:

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8658006 - 07/20/08 07:27 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

you can loose them but don't leese them

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

Diploid
Cuban

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8658032 - 07/20/08 07:43 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I have a question for the chakraists:

Can you think of any way to test for the existence of chakras using proper scientific methodology and controls such that nothing is left to interpretation and where the results will be clear and conclusive?

Or is testing for the existence of chakras like testing for the existence of god, meaning they can't be tested for at all and it all comes down to faith?

Post Extras:

Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8658059 - 07/20/08 07:54 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Chakraists? :lol:

I think that chakras are a useful mental framework for meditations involving deliberate activation of our nervous system. From the picture I posted, one can see a clear correspondence between the "string" of chakras & the human nervous system.

Perhaps practices involving kundalini energy & the chakras are a form of biofeedback? I think that research into this subject would be problematic until our ability to view the nervous system in action is more refined.

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8658062 - 07/20/08 07:56 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

you need a 3-d electro-encephalograph.
you know that thing with several needles swiping electrical voltage readings on paper that is pulled by a roller?

a 3-d electro encephalograph with more contact points; instead of 25contacts you need about 25000 contacts.

this could be done with a sensitive rubberized helmet with microscopic field sensors - they could be connected to a computer that records the flux of data.

the playback of the data should be zoom-able in time and position, so that you can observe the interference effects of the spreading electrical fields in the cortex.

if you compare the results between meditaor and non meditator with respect to body positions (as mapped in the homunculus) you will see the kinds of results I have predicted - proving that they are real but derived of interference, or you will not see the results I have predicted - proving that they are imagined via some other means.

I think the sensor skull cap is still in development.
soon come.
you may have your day in the lab, and it may not be pretty.

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

Diploid
Cuban

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8658115 - 07/20/08 08:20 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

you may have your day in the lab, and it may not be pretty.

Not sure what you mean by this, but you should know that above all else, I seek truth, whatever it may be.

If some day the first tiny shred of verifiable mysticism is found or a long-held scientific position is shown to have been wrong, I will be the first to jump for joy at the progress in man's search for knowledge and the opening of a whole new field of scientific inquiry.

Post Extras:

Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8658131 - 07/20/08 08:23 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Are you familiar with biofeedback techniques? It's a fascinating field. Perhaps the chakras and kundalini are the "spoonful of sugar" that helps the medicine go down, as they provide a means of imagining the unimaginable. Visualizing the nervous system is rather unsatisfying, IMO, vs. the color and character provided by utilizing the chakra system.

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8658140 - 07/20/08 08:27 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

i sincerely hope you do not consider the proof of one shread of mysticism as equal to scientific proof of intereference effect on the cortex.
anyway, chakkras are not necessarily mystical, but there are many confused people who want them to be mystical.
acupuncture also is not mystical.

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

Diploid
Cuban

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Veritas]
#8658162 - 07/20/08 08:33 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Sure. I've been experimenting with biofeedback ever since as a kid I built a GSR gadget to teach myself how transistors amplify.

I can see how chakras can work as a visualization technique and aid to biofeedback and meditation, but if that's all they are, then there's nothing mystical about them.

And point of fact, I know of experiments where a practitioner 'manipulates' a test subject's chakras with the subject blinded as to which chakras is being manipulated. The test requires the subject to state in which chakra they feel the manipulation.

The results were consistently equal to what would have been expected by random guessing.

Not as conclusive as a fancy 3-D EEG, but enough to make anyone looking for truth with an impartial disposition to conclude that, so far, chakras appear to be imaginary.

Post Extras:

Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8658192 - 07/20/08 08:38 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, I agree that there is nothing more or less mystical about chakras then there is or is not about the human body.

However, I think that there is likely a great deal about the human body that we do not yet know. Experimenting with so-called "mystical" techniques for exploring our potential may be the only way we can learn more about our bodies.

Post Extras:

Diploid
Cuban

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8658201 - 07/20/08 08:40 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Aura healers and chakra healers have been practicing their craft under different names for centuries. In Japan the practice of energy healing is known as reiki. They just wave their hands over the patient and "feel" the energy moving through the chakras. The patient feels it, too. Great stuff but what’s really going on? How did so many different people independently discover energy healing? It must be because there really is energy that can be manipulated to bring about healing, right? Not necessarily.

In 1996 Emily Rosa tested 21 therapeutic touch (TT) practitioners to see if they could feel her life energy when they could not see its source. The test was very simple and seems to clearly indicate that the subjects could not detect the life energy of the little girl’s hands when placed near theirs. They had a 50% chance of being right in each test, yet they correctly located Emily's hand only 44% of the time in 280 trials. If they can’t detect the energy, how can they manipulate or transfer it? What are they detecting? Dr. Dolores Krieger, one of the creators of TT, has been offered $1,000,000 by James Randi to demonstrate that she, or anyone else for that matter, can detect the human energy field. So far, Dr. Krieger has refused to be tested.

In 1996, the James Randi Educational Foundation offered $742,000 to anyone who could demonstrate an ability to detect a "human energy field" under conditions similar to those of our study. Although more than 80,000 American practitioners claim to have such ability, only one person attempted to demonstrate it. She failed by scoring equal to random chance, and the offer, now at $1 million, has no further takers despite extensive recruiting efforts, including a direct appeal to Dr. Krieger.

skepdic.com

From the available evidence, I'd say that chakras are yet another example of the human capacity for self-deception when we want something to be true.

Post Extras:

Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8658210 - 07/20/08 08:42 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

The practice of manipulating someone elses' chakras is probably bunk. However, this does not necessarily indicate anything about working with one's OWN chakras, particularly if it is similar to biofeedback techniques.

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Veritas]
#8658319 - 07/20/08 09:27 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Yes, I agree that there is nothing more or less mystical about chakras then there is or is not about the human body.

However, I think that there is likely a great deal about the human body that we do not yet know. Experimenting with so-called "mystical" techniques for exploring our potential may be the only way we can learn more about our bodies.

true, a lot not known. but
false, mystical methods are not the only way we can learn about our bodies,
but they are the way we deal with facts that are not connected to systems that we already understand:

such as acupuncture meridians.
the way the points work is not apparent.
so they make up a mystical reason and that makes it possible to teach this practice.
the practice works but that does not mean that the mysticism is right.

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

daytripper23
?

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8658446 - 07/20/08 10:20 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

Veritas said:
Yes, I agree that there is nothing more or less mystical about chakras then there is or is not about the human body.

However, I think that there is likely a great deal about the human body that we do not yet know. Experimenting with so-called "mystical" techniques for exploring our potential may be the only way we can learn more about our bodies.

true, a lot not known. but
false, mystical methods are not the only way we can learn about our bodies,
but they are the way we deal with facts that are not connected to systems that we already understand:

such as acupuncture meridians.
the way the points work is not apparent.
so they make up a mystical reason and that makes it possible to teach this practice.
the practice works but that does not mean that the mysticism is right.

Well, in my own experience with chakras, I suspect that any function or practice of Kundalini yoga is concerned so fundamentally with a non-sensible mind body connection (That is, not in the sensible reductionist or causal approach), that this system is going to always be necessarily mystical.

It does not seem that empiricism has the right footing to determine the subjective effects of chakras, which is the entire reason for interest in this energy system really.

Its one thing to verify for yourself that you feel these energies in these specific places, but its a whole other thing to get a use out of this practice, in the many ways you can read about.

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: daytripper23]
#8658550 - 07/20/08 10:46 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

the lack of scientific footing may relate more to the lack of good footware or poor choice of pitons while climbing this knowledge mountain.

the mystical element if necessary at all is necessary only to remind us of what we do not yet understand.

as such the thing can still be real and important - even though we don't understand it.

my point is that we probably do understand it, but the penny is not dropping.

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

daytripper23
?

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8658643 - 07/20/08 11:11 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

haha yes. I would not talk about mystic as if its the mystic.

I was going to comment but I think you pretty much summed it up.

Post Extras:

MarkostheGnostic
Elder

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 1 day, 23 hours

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Veritas]
#8658719 - 07/20/08 11:30 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
The practice of manipulating someone elses' chakras is probably bunk.

I have to disagree here. I keep encountering women who have the ability to immediately open my second chakra against my wishes! And believe me when I tell you that they know exactly what they're doing.

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#8658737 - 07/20/08 11:33 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

You are weak. :lol:

Actually you do wish it is my guess. You just wish you didn't wish it.

Post Extras:

Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 4,200
Last seen: 36 minutes, 53 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#8658796 - 07/20/08 11:46 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I might as well just quit now.

Might be a good idea. Your word just isn't quite enough. If someones word was enough I would be broke and Christian and married right now.

Well I was referring to myself, but I know what you mean. The only proof I have comes from my own experience. Even if chakras were scientifically proven, it wouldn't make working with them any different, for me at least. whatta you got? Some dual purpose nerve endings? The body utilizing it's capacity as a capacitor to move and hold some type of electrical charge? That would be interesting... but to what end? The secret to consciousness?

--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace

Post Extras:

Diploid
Cuban

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#8658931 - 07/20/08 12:25 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I keep encountering women who have the ability to immediately open my second chakra

This is an easily demonstrable assertion if it is true.

You are aware that you and these women could immediately win the JREF million dollar prize and retire early, no? Not to mention the incredible service you'd render to mankind by opening a new avenue of scientific inquiry and ushering in a new era of discovery.

So why not? I don't get it.

/me is confused...

Post Extras:

MarkostheGnostic
Elder

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 1 day, 23 hours

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8658952 - 07/20/08 12:32 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

"From the available evidence, I'd say that chakras are yet another example of the human capacity for self-deception when we want something to be true."

This response is either due to a lack of training in subtle awareness, or yet another example of an attitude of simple disbelief in anything which is not readily available to an untrained eye.

I'll give you some examples of some of the more physical-emotional dimensions of chakra psychology that will show you basic correlations of psychophysical loci of chakra experience. Let me use the most commonly known system: Hindu Tantra.

From the Muladhara or perineal center, which is connected with the motive of survival and its correlating emotion, fear. In a situation which threatens one's physical survival, there is a Muladhara energization which can result in one shitting him/herself. Obviosly things are going on everywhere else in the physical body and in the location of chakra sites, but this event is common enough. There are execises for arousing the Kundalini, not intended to cause defecation, but intended to energize the survival mode of the person which will energize and release energy at that chakra, but the technique alledges that the energy can be directed into the spinal column and moved upward. This technique deals will near-suffocation, but is controlled by the practitioner. Certain visualizations and focus on that center along with a particular type of breath-retention that is part of a 3-stage breathing technique (pranayama).

The Svadhisthana or genital center, when energized has feelings and sensations that I'm confident you yourself have experienced. It is related to the Muladhara energetically which is why the two are combined in the Tibetan systems as the Root Center. The anal-genital psychology has been best explicated in the West by Sigmund Freud, despite his sexist errors. Clearly, Greek Eros, is an energy which is related to Kundalini. 'Greek sex' is associated with anal sex. Both have mythological and metaphysical properties ascribed by Plato and by Indian sages because there is a numinous quality to fear and to lust. Sex magick usually has low-brow intentions, whereas sex mysticism is rather high-brow in its goal, which is not manipulative as is sex magick. Both use orgasmic release coupled with cognitive intentionality. Bottom line: we all know what our second chakra energies 'feel' like.

Manipura or navel center, with its Indo-Aryan root for our word manipu-lation is the power center. Someone is said to 'have guts' when this center, which has a particular relationship with our survival center Muladhara, when one is able to overcome the overload of energy and act decisively. Butterflies, anxiety or whatever feelings of an emotionally petrifying way are overcome by the skillful use of this 'pranic battery,' this 'solar plexus' of prana, chi, ki or li, depending upon the tradition. The Japanese "Ki Ya!" in Shotokan Karate is a well known vocal expression from the Hara center. This is the Castenedian "gap" of Don Juan and Don Genero, with 'fibers of will' in that model (real or fictional). This is the primary center in Tibetan practices of producing the documented 'Tummo' or Inner Fire which enables yogis to dry wet sheets on their bodies in the Himalayas and melt circles of snow around them. It is the Adlerian "will to power," borrowed by that psychologist from Nietzsche to descibe the psychology of people whose personalities are not organized around Freudian dynamics, but around "superiority vs. inferiority," and "social interest," who are power-centric. So here, I've given physical, psychic (a non-cognitive, pre-psychological energy) and psychological correlates of the Manipura.

The Anahata heart center symbolizes the first movement from psychophysical (1st), psychosexual (2nd) and psychosocial (3rd) motivations of human behavior to psychospiritual development. Feeling states of 'warmth,' sympathy, empathy and compassion are correlated with this center which has physical (muscle), astral (chakra) and causal associations (Sacred Heart/Hridayam). Even 'wrenching' sensations of a 'broken heart' are reported by some as the ego-centric motivations of the first 3 centers are transcended. Motivated from this center, individuals will sacrifice their lives for another. It becomes the center of self-sacrificial love, symbolized by Christ or as Kabbalistic Tiphereth, the Diamond Body, Atman or Heart Cave (which BE HERE NOW identified with "unbearable compassion"). As a place of primal identity, individuals almost universally point to this region when pointing to themselves. It is the 'seat of mind' in Tibetan Buddhism and was as well in ancient Egypt - both recognizing that the brain center is but the reflected (lunar) aspect of the heart enter (solar) from which Life wells up. More than the sensate identification with a heart-beat, is an intuitve understanding of the heart center. It is the seed syllable HUM (and coincidentally the plane of HUMan Realization) in Vajrayana.

Now, you may not give a rat's ass about why human beings from time immemorial have made associations with processes more subtle than physical processes. Perhaps you simply ascribe scientific ignorance to the ancients, which indeed they had about physical processes, but that owas apparently compensated by having their intuitive function far wider than most people today, and through intuition transcendental perception enter awareness. There is a spiritual and a psychological genius evidenced by ancient peoples that you do not appreciate. Clearly, all the scientific advances which have kept us alive and physically healthy have not contributed to a more eveolved humanity. Most of the multitudes are governed entirely by the lower centers, else the world would be populated by saints and Christs. Human beinghood is better grokked by metaphor than by scientific jargon since science applies only to our physical foundations, less for our psychological nature (except the lower aspects more closely allied to the physical processes and limbic system), and not at all for the transcendental aspects of awareness which do not originate with human nature.

--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself

Post Extras:

Diploid
Cuban

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#8658963 - 07/20/08 12:35 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Prove me wrong instead of just talking, Markos. Win the JREF prize and shut me up once and for all. Should be easy if you can really do what you say you can do. :shrug:

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8658967 - 07/20/08 12:37 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I like the visuals

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8658970 - 07/20/08 12:39 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

wow... some nice visuals can be had after focusing on the center point of the opening lotus in that video :shineon:

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8659001 - 07/20/08 12:49 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

It seems from reading this thread... that 'skeptics' AND many 'believers' agree that chakras do not physically exist. They are a tool of the imagination... to aid in allignment of the spine, the flow of the nervous system, the enjoyment of sex... and to aid in meditation.

It also seems there are several people out there who are affraid that IF chakras are CONSIDERED to be imaginary... the whole concept of chakras will stop working. Some people believe you must have faith, in order to get your imaginary chakras to work.

Further, it seems SOME people take their chakras very seriously... and consider people like me, who make threads like this to be the spawn of the devil.

Here's what I think:

Chakras are imaginary... but the nervous system is real. Chakras were invented before the nervous system was understood... and meditation on your imaginary chakras can be a mind blowing PERSONAL experience. Alligning your spine is ALMOST ALWAYS a good thing to practice.

I see nothing wrong with meditation... even if you meditate on imaginary things. I do see something wrong with claiming something imaginary is actually real... especially if you know better.

Chakras are sorta' like Santa Claus... for adults.

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8659010 - 07/20/08 12:52 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Further, it seems SOME people take their chakras very seriously...

seriousness closes the solar plexus chakra... duh :evil:

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8659026 - 07/20/08 12:55 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

we got those who are serious about the existence of chakras, and those who are serious about the nonexistence of them.

it's a two sided coin :yinyang:

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8659030 - 07/20/08 12:56 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SyntheticMInd said:
we got those who are serious about the existence of chakras, and those who are serious about the nonexistence of them.

it's a two sided coin

I have been saying that for months.

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8659033 - 07/20/08 12:58 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

santa clause for adults??
I don't think this is what you came to through this thread, but it is what you had in mind prior to opening this thread.

btw is devil's spawn a personalism or a kind of santa-claus-ism

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8659043 - 07/20/08 01:01 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
santa clause for adults??

Yes. Adults believe in something invisible... and it makes the experience extra-special.

Just like kids and the jolly, child-molesting elf.

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8659066 - 07/20/08 01:07 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

i think santa clause is a personalism

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8659085 - 07/20/08 01:13 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I'd think so too... if he was real, and a member of these boards... and I had called him a child molester.

I think your apparent need to continue goading me... and a couple days too late I might add... is quite unlike the Buddha.

Post Extras:

Diploid
Cuban

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8659104 - 07/20/08 01:19 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I'd think so too... if he was real, and a member of these boards

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showprofile.php?Cat=&User=109048&page=1&what=showmembers :yesnod:

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8659117 - 07/20/08 01:22 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I'd think so too... if he was real, and a member of these boards

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showprofile.php?Cat=&User=109048&page=1&what=showmembers

Go fuck yourself Santa Claus.

Oops!

Post Extras:

Diaboleros
Devil's spawn

Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 1,856
Last seen: 8 days, 2 hours

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: redgreenvines]
#8659158 - 07/20/08 01:31 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Maybe the right question would be "Is chakra meditation useful?"

Does time exist? No. Time is nothing but a concept of the human mind to better understand this world. There is no time, only now. Do colors exist? No. Colors are nothing but a concept of the human mind to differentiate between different vibrations of energy. Does sound exist? No. Sound is nothing but a hallucination based on airwaves. Or sometimes based on your thinking (inner speech).

Do chakras exist? No idea. Theres no source that I have found that actually decribes chakras elaborately. But as far as I can tell, chakras are definitely a useful concept to better understand the working of our body, and our nervous system. Our memory extends all over our body through the nervous system, even our feet have memory. Memory is not only kept inside our head. If we can meditate to make our brain work better, why wouldn't we be able to meditate to make our nervous system work better? (assuming chakras are actually some sort of mapping of the energy in the nervous system)

I've only recently found out about chakras and meditation, I've read a lot about it, but have little experience. From the experience I have, I can say chakra meditation is useful. So in the end, to me, it only matters weather it is useful or not. I will not stop using the concept of time just because time doesn't exist. I will not ignore colors or sound because they don't really exist. The only thing that really matters is weaher the concept is useful or not IMHO. Right now, theres no way to scientificly tell weather chakras exist or not, because science has only recently started to explore this field. So why not just try them out and see if they are useful during your meditation... the only way to truly know is first hand experience.

Edited by Diaboleros (07/20/08 01:32 PM)

Post Extras:

daytripper23
?

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8659343 - 07/20/08 02:05 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Wow I am sure glad this is a funny territory now.

Its nothing personal,

but I find it philosophically interesting that all my posts, which were very explicit attempts to defend MYself, were deleted, on grounds of them being personalisms. Apparently it was too personal for me to talk about myself.

I was just thinking about these posts, which are lost for the moment, and thought maybe I would compare their personal-ness, with the posts of Cervantes', which were directed at my character (not a single one considered as yet).

Even more interesting, the said post that had started all, this personalism was not deleted. The only post that was personal in my opinion, the one about douchery, was not deleted either.

ha ha ha ha

I mean Dippers, you can ban me, thats in your right. But in my opinion there has been some tampering with evidence.

yes funny territory, I concur. Don't delete my jokes though! Theyre just jokes!

Maybe someone will see this, or maybe it will disappear like any other attempt of mine to prove myself.

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8659361 - 07/20/08 02:10 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Prove me wrong instead of just talking, Markos. Win the JREF prize and shut me up once and for all. Should be easy if you can really do what you say you can do.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: daytripper23]
#8659362 - 07/20/08 02:10 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Wow I am sure glad this is a funny territory now.

Its nothing personal,

True and true.

Now, if you wish to discuss this further... contact Dip via PM.

Good to have you back.

Just keep keeping it non-personal. :wink:

Post Extras:

Diploid
Cuban

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: daytripper23]
#8659369 - 07/20/08 02:11 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

daytripper23, we've moved on. Drop it or you'll go on another (longer) vacation. I won't say this again.

Post Extras:

daytripper23
?

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8659378 - 07/20/08 02:13 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Ok I just wanted to get that out there. I can move on - just joking like you fellas

yahooo

Edited by daytripper23 (07/20/08 02:15 PM)

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8659388 - 07/20/08 02:14 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I suggest Fiji. It's beautiful and cheap.

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#8659490 - 07/20/08 02:36 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

three day ban?

try ibogaine.

Post Extras:

zouden
Neuroscientist

Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8659688 - 07/20/08 03:32 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

So we've refined it to two separate questions:

1. Do chakras exist?

2. Are they useful?

The answer to the second question can be "yes" even if the answer to the first is "no".

I'm sure they can be useful for meditation for some people. But for healing (aka reiki)? Hell no, and anyone who claims they can heal people through their chakras is a dangerous fraud.

--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
but truth is the hardest thing to see

Post Extras:

MarkostheGnostic
Elder

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 1 day, 23 hours

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8659728 - 07/20/08 03:42 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

If you weren't so recalcitrant [ ], you would see that I was showing you how to reflect on YOUR OWN experiences of what chakra psychology means. But you still...don't...get...it. Unbelievable.
You apparently have absolutely no ability for self-reflection! That is just not possible. Do you not understand my post? I am not trying to prove anything to you, I am describing common human experiences and correlating them with various cultures. I understand that you are an 'Sensate' typology and show little 'Intuition,' and hence cannot grasp what is implied by metaphysics, but I am not trying to convince you of metaphysics. I am simply describing common human experiences.

BTW, I grew up in the 60s watching ''The Amazing Randi' on NY TV for years. I love the guy, but he is another non-intuitive, non-comprehending typology who is one-sidedly 'sensate' in his personality. It is tragic to watch someone in advanced adulthood not even approach individuated wholeness.

Only a one-sided materialist could even think along the lines af asking subjective phenomena be demonstrated objectively to others - for prize money no less! How typically materialistic. Might as well ask for a feeling or a thought in a flask. Absurd.

Lastly, I have no interest in 'shutting you up.' I'm not trying to have the last word, neither am I in competition with you. You make opinionated statements that indicate non-comprehension and I'm attempting to teach something. Apparently, you do not want to be taught something that might create a crack in your one-sided attitude. Chakra psychology is very old and it is quite useful clinically and for one's own development. My doctorate was completed by a dissertation which explicated Tibetan Buddhist chakra psychology in much the same way that I described it to you. I convinced a doctoral committee at a major university of its value and the dissertation was published. Not wanting to learn something useful, and responding with belligerence when confronted with correction, is a problem that you need to work on, not about something I need to prove to you.

--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (07/20/08 04:31 PM)

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#8659759 - 07/20/08 03:51 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
If you weren't so dense, you would see that I was showing you how to reflect on YOUR OWN experiences of what chakra psychology means. But you still...don't...get...it. Unbelievable.

I suspect... in spite of his density... (which shouldn't matter... because the density of human matter has no matter on this matter...) that he DOES, in fact, get it... he is just making a logical argument... to make a point.

Not that it matters... when one believes in Santa Claus...

:smirk:

Post Extras:

Diploid
Cuban

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#8659760 - 07/20/08 03:52 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Oi Markos... calling me names hardly makes your case. It just shows me that you're so wrong and so know it that you have to resort to the "neener neener, you're stoopid" debating tactic.

Get back to me when you have a rebuttal worthy of a 3rd grader. Or when you're ready to show off that magic ability that could make you rich and which you talk about endlessly but somehow can't demonstrate. :thumbdown:

Oh, and stop trying to "teach me". Geez.

Post Extras:

zouden
Neuroscientist

Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#8659762 - 07/20/08 03:52 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Only a one-sided materialist could even think along the lines af asking subjective phenomena be demonstrated objectively to others - for prize money no less!

The problem is that many people claim it's an objective phenomenom.

--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
but truth is the hardest thing to see

Post Extras:

Huehuecoyotl
Stranger

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,158
Loc: On the Border

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#8659800 - 07/20/08 04:04 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I view the description of such systems as models. If the model behaves subjectively like it is correct then it is valid even if it is not "scientifically correct". The only important thing is if it holds up subjectively with results!

--------------------
Maybe there is no Heaven. Maybe this is all pure gibberish — a product of the demented imagination of a lazy drunken hillbilly with a heart full of hate who has found a way to live out where the real winds blow — to sleep late, have fun, get wild, drink whiskey, and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind except falling in love and not getting arrested...
--HST

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#8659829 - 07/20/08 04:10 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

If you weren't so dense, Personalisms don't make your case. :thumbdown:

Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black IMO.

Post Extras:

MarkostheGnostic
Elder

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 1 day, 23 hours

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diaboleros]
#8659855 - 07/20/08 04:16 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

For years, Skinnerian Behaviorism dominated psychology in this country. Skinner maintained that there is no such thing as mind. Personally, I think that mind is real, Reality in fact. However, mind has no extension in space-time, is not quantifiable and cannot be measured scientifically because mind is non-physical. Chakra psychology is a model which helps to organize, describe and predict human behavior. It is a psychological model. Like atomic models, we all realize that models are not the thing-in-itself, so what's the problem here? The only problem I'm aware of is the philosophy of crude materialism which identifies Ultimate Reality with materiality.

I am not impressed with great materiality, and only somewhat by great intellect. It is great spirituality which awes me: kindness, ability to forgive, generosity, not taking offense, rejoicing in the joys of others (instead of envying), non-violence. Extreme one-sided 2nd chakra psychologies like that of Hugh Hefner, one-sided and extreme 3rd chakra psychologies like the world's dictators (or dime-a-dozen porn stars and petty tyrants that we all encounter) all constellate their life-styles like a mandala around their corresponding chakra motivations. Their universe places the 'sun' of their psychological solar system in the predominating chakra. We all are a living totem pole of identical chakra motivations, and its only the degree of influence of each motivation that creates our individual personality. It is a useful model if one is dedicated to self-knowledge and is open to human development.

--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#8659886 - 07/20/08 04:23 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
The only important thing is if it holds up subjectively with results!

Very good.

Now, show us the results!

(drum roll...)

Post Extras:

MarkostheGnostic
Elder

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 1 day, 23 hours

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8659966 - 07/20/08 04:39 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

You need some schoolin' seeing as you project your own fantasies onto my posts ("magic ability"??). I am rich enough for my needs, but if you're still on about The Amazing Randi, you can't possibly see beyond a monologue of your own making. I'm not interested in proving magical abilities that you are projecting onto me to a materialistic old stage magician. What an absurd contest!

And hey, sorry about the name. I changed it to a word that still reflects your attitude. If anyone is copping a plug-your-ears while yelling "lalalala...," it's you. Sorry too, that you don't get the teaching.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8659987 - 07/20/08 04:47 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Neener neener neeeener... you ain't got no weeeener!!!

Post Extras:

Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#8660010 - 07/20/08 04:52 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Forum Rules
You can bring to bear all your rhetorical skills and articulate arguments in an attempt to expose the idea under discussion as ludicrous, repugnant or whatever - as a matter of fact you are encouraged to do so - but the acceptable method is to direct all your weaponry at the IDEA being presented, not at the person presenting the idea.

Is this really so difficult to grasp? If your comments attempt to negatively describe the PERSON proposing an idea, as opposed to the idea itself, you are not debating--you're flaming! Lowering the discussion to this level would mean a nonsensical exchange of "Am not!" "Are to!" "Am not" "Are to times a thousand" "Am not times infinity!"

C'mon people, I think that we can do better than this! Drop the fucking personalisms and DEBATE THE TOPIC! I am tired of the juvenile insults and lame attempts to psychoanalyze other posters. If you cannot debate the topic, then DON'T POST ANYTHING. Simple as that.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Veritas]
#8660021 - 07/20/08 04:54 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
"Am not!" "Are to!" "Am not" "Are to times a thousand" "Am not times infinity!"

*Too

Some people think I knew the outcome of this thread when I started it...

Post Extras:

Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8660044 - 07/20/08 04:59 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Kids can't spell! :razz:

Post Extras:

Diploid
Cuban

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#8660067 - 07/20/08 05:05 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Geezuz Markos. You crack me up man. :rofl:

Post Extras:

daytripper23
?

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Veritas]
#8660110 - 07/20/08 05:16 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
C'mon people, I think that we can do better than this! Drop the fucking personalisms and DEBATE THE TOPIC! I am tired of the juvenile insults and lame attempts to psychoanalyze other posters. If you cannot debate the topic, then DON'T POST ANYTHING. Simple as that.

hehehe

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: daytripper23]
#8660126 - 07/20/08 05:21 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Welcome to the Philosophy & Spirituality Forum

This forum is for the open discussion of a wide range of philosophical topics that often enough also relate to our spirituality. From aesthetics to epistemology, metaphysics to ethics and more. The rules for posting in this forum are simple and few:

1) No flaming. If you can't state your case or refute someone else's case without calling him/her "stupid" or an "idiot" don't post here. This forum is for intelligent discussion, not for belittling someone who holds differing opinions. This rule will be strictly enforced. If you have been warned already you will receive a ban, if you continue to flame you will be banned permanently. Choose your words wisely or suffer the consequences.

2) Although not always possible, when quoting a source please provide a link. Also, when posting a video, it is conducive for discussion to include a description of the video, and perhaps include some points from the video that would be interesting to discuss.

3) If you're going to post a link to a video or external web page, also include a description of what the link is about and a proposed topic for discussion. Posts not conforming to this will be deleted.

4) Avoid personalisms. We're all human and nobody expects a completely sterile discussion, but please try to keep to the topic, and leave the folks you're talking to personally out of things. If your personalisms get the attention of the moderators, you will be warned or banned.

5) Long-time forum regulars will generally get a littler more discretion from the moderators than noobs. This is in recognition of their many contributions to the nature and character of this forum, and the many times they've had to deal with the noob who shows up with a new, mind-blowing concept that's actually an old rag we've deconstructed here a hundred times over the years. If you're new here, keep that in mind. Stick around and become a regular yourself!

6) Anything not covered here is at the moderators' discretion.

See rule #5? Watch your ass, n00b.

:tongue:

Post Extras:

daytripper23
?

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8660130 - 07/20/08 05:22 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

heheh

Im not gonna lie I love the tension around here lately

Post Extras:

Huehuecoyotl
Stranger

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,158
Loc: On the Border

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8660199 - 07/20/08 05:39 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I have gotten serious results in applying similar type metaphysical models to my life...not the chakra model, but I have gotten unbelievable results from similar type systems....tangible documentable results. Now many would ascribe it to old fashioned elbow grease, but that is their choice to see it that way. I can't prove any system, but I can show results.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#8660240 - 07/20/08 05:49 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
I can't prove any system, but I can show results.

Great!

Now, show us the results!

(Drum roll...)

Post Extras:

Huehuecoyotl
Stranger

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,158
Loc: On the Border

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8660423 - 07/20/08 06:50 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Does losing an huge alcohol addiction of 15 years (5 case a week), losing 150 lbs, changing careers in mid adulthood that required an education and a restart to the beginning financially, attaining the physical condition of an athlete, and losing a severe anger management problem count? There have also been myriad changes to my waking consciousness that cause me to little resemble the person I was just a few years ago. You would probably say that this was just normal personal growth...

Post Extras:

Diploid
Cuban

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8660424 - 07/20/08 06:50 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Chakra really does exist! Chakra Khan!

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#8660436 - 07/20/08 06:54 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Does losing an huge alcohol addiction of 15 years (5 case a week), losing 150 lbs, changing careers in mid adulthood that required an education and a restart to the beginning financially, attaining the physical condition of an athlete, and losing a severe anger management problem count? There have also been myriad changes to my waking consciousness that cause me to little resemble the person I was just a few years ago. You would probably say that this was just normal personal growth...

And Super Bowl winners thank Jesus... then they go to Disneyland!

It seems it is hard for people to take credit for their own accomplishments.

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8660440 - 07/20/08 06:55 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Chakra really does exist! Chakra Khan!

one of my chakras has hardened.

:nonono:

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8660473 - 07/20/08 07:06 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I wonder... with all these imaginary things... like enlightenment, meditation, chakras, the third eye and astral projection; does Buddhism perhaps encourage people to use and develop their own imagination?

Do students of this Buddhist school/philosophy commonly get hung up... by taking these folk tales and lessons too litterally?

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8660529 - 07/20/08 07:18 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

can you please explain why the practice of meditation is imaginary?

unless everything is imagined. do you consider perception to be imagination?

does Buddhism perhaps encourage people to use and develop their own imagination?

guess it depends on how people interpret the Buddha's teachings.

Do students of this Buddhist school/philosophy commonly get hung up... by taking these folk tales and lessons too litterally?

all the time, you didn't know that?? :evil:

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8660579 - 07/20/08 07:30 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SyntheticMInd said:
can you please explain why the practice of meditation is imaginary?

Practice is not imaginary... but meditation itself is an exercise in imagination.

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8660611 - 07/20/08 07:41 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

... but meditation is a practice ...

Post Extras:

Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8660640 - 07/20/08 07:48 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Chakra really does exist! Chakra Khan!

Lies! That is Beverly Johnson.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8660847 - 07/20/08 08:26 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SyntheticMInd said:
... but meditation is a practice ...

Yes, you practice using your mind to focus your thoughts on one imaginary thing... or you practice by imagining you are not thinking at all. Do you really think your brain shuts off when you quiet your mind? Then how do you breathe or beat your own heart while meditating?

Both examples (meditating on a thought, or meditating on nothing) are exercises of the imagination. So again, you practice meditation by using your imagination.

Post Extras:

Huehuecoyotl
Stranger

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,158
Loc: On the Border

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8660880 - 07/20/08 08:35 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

It is not about taking credit. I did it, but I used methods that were based in nontraditional/spiritual philosophies. If these methods worked then they are useful...point blank. Of course you would say that it had no effect....it is subjective. Did I not tell you your reaction. You just wanted something to ridicule, that was your only goal. Learning is not your objective here.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#8660904 - 07/20/08 08:42 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
It is not about taking credit. I did it, but I used methods that were based in nontraditional/spiritual philosophies. If these methods worked then they are useful...point blank. Of course you would say that it had no effect....it is subjective. Did I not tell you your reaction. You just wanted something to ridicule, that was your only goal. Learning is not your objective here.

Man the Veterans hurling personalisms are thick in here this week! I almost need a fly-swatter to clear my own path.

I did not want something to ridicule... and yet you've given me so many things to choose from.

I think the work you did for your spiritual side, likely focused your efforts to become a better, healthier person. I didn't think I riddiculed you or your experience. I just showed you that many Christians feel the same way about Jesus as you seem to feel about your Buddhist ways.

The work you did on yourself, however... has done little to help you obey one of the simplest rules in this forum.

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8660916 - 07/20/08 08:48 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, you practice using your mind to focus your thoughts on one imaginary thing... or you practice by imagining you are not thinking at all.

that's quite the assumption,
nor is it an accurate description
you should have substituted "I" and "me" for "you"

Do you really think your brain shuts off when you quiet your mind?

no???

Both examples (meditating on a thought, or meditating on nothing) are exercises of the imagination.

again... do you think perception is imagination? because proper meditation exercises perception/self-awareness.

Post Extras:

Huehuecoyotl
Stranger

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,158
Loc: On the Border

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8660918 - 07/20/08 08:50 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

You are seeing personalisms where none exist. You were ridiculing. Fact. I just observed it lol. In any case if I have violated rules I guess you can get me banned, but we both know I was observing your ego.

Post Extras:

Huehuecoyotl
Stranger

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,158
Loc: On the Border

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8660961 - 07/20/08 09:05 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

think the work you did for your spiritual side, likely focused your efforts to become a better, healthier person.

Now to respond to the interesting aspect of your post. I don't care about being a better person. Being a better person is an illusion. I care about what works...nothing else. Being a "good" person is not a worthwhile goal.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8660963 - 07/20/08 09:05 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SyntheticMInd said:

again... do you think perception is imagination? because proper meditation exercises perception/self-awareness.

Very good point about perception.

I think self-awareness is imaginary... in the sense that I can't honestly tell you where the self ends and the imagination begins.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#8660966 - 07/20/08 09:06 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
You are seeing personalisms where none exist. You were ridiculing. Fact. I just observed it lol. In any case if I have violated rules I guess you can get me banned, but we both know I was observing your ego.

Pics! Pics!

I wanna see what my ego looks like!

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Quote:

think the work you did for your spiritual side, likely focused your efforts to become a better, healthier person.

Now to respond to the interesting aspect of your post. I don't care about being a better person. Being a better person is an illusion. I care about what works...nothing else. Being a "good" person is not a worthwhile goal.

Now you're picking MY nits.

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8660980 - 07/20/08 09:12 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

one a feeling in the body rises, be aware of it
when a thought comes into mind, be aware of it
when a sound is heard, be aware of it
when no thought, feeling, sound, sensation rises and all is left the present
be aware of the present
and on...
and on

this is self-awareness IMO

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8660998 - 07/20/08 09:18 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I agree... but how is that not imaginary?

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8661017 - 07/20/08 09:23 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

are we talking about my post, or the practice?

if you are talking about my post then I would agree

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8661040 - 07/20/08 09:29 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Your post... sorry I didn't quote ya'.

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8661059 - 07/20/08 09:35 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

it's over!

imma pack the first bowl of the day now to conclude a great discussion, on an amazing thread :peace:

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8661067 - 07/20/08 09:37 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

You win!!!

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8661096 - 07/20/08 09:42 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

no, you win for creating such an epic thread :wink:

Post Extras:

Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 4,200
Last seen: 36 minutes, 53 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8661538 - 07/20/08 11:47 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I think there are physical components to their existence, science just hasn't described it yet. Meaning, emotion is imagination, but it is both metaphysical and physical, in the same way touch is metaphysical and physical. The sense of touch isn't a real thing, but it requires nerve endings, and some form of energy. Emotion seems to be a little further up the ladder, but it's all imagination in so far as what is experienced during the operation of the equipment. I think the spinal cord, and the branches hold the discreet mechanism(s), not just the brain, to create the experience of the lower chakras. If imagination is to be described as something occurring only in the brain, then I'd say no, chakras are not imaginary. At the same time, I'm not saying I agree with that statement.

Either way, what is felt (the evidence) is a discreet manifestation of emotional energy, and this could be passed off as the actual chakra, like calling water the pond. Chakras can't be seen, in the same way the mind can't be seen, and in the same way a pond can't be seen.

Ponds are just depressions in the ground with some water. It is the interaction between the solid material and the liquid that create "pond". In so much as anything is real, I'll say ponds are real, in a different way than a day-dream of a pond is real... while still knowing that a pond is just a relationship between water and earth.

--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Rahz]
#8661606 - 07/21/08 12:06 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Either way, what is felt (the evidence) is a discreet manifestation of emotional energy, and this could be passed off as the actual chakra,

exactly my thought

although sometimes it feels more than an emotion

Edited by SyntheticMInd (07/21/08 12:40 AM)

Post Extras:

redgreenvines
irregular verb

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8661906 - 07/21/08 05:16 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

it is shaped mental energy, which includes a body location mapping.
the shape of the energy is real, but the existence of it is in the cortex.
the shape of the energy is indirectly produced by what you think (or stage in your mind), and it is very dependent upon your effort to keep the mind focussed, in a sustained way.

some people deny the reality of things that are in another person's cortex, because they cannot touch them with their fingers.
or their fists,
or affect them directly by their casual efforts.
the shapes and forms that occur out of mental energy in the cortex, are not subject to easy external manipulation, yet.

as homeland security gets tighter, this may come sooner than later.
the efforts to cognitive liberty could become much more serious than what drugs we can take when we want them.

--------------------
~~~~~

Post Extras:

Diploid
Cuban

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Veritas]
#8661937 - 07/21/08 05:34 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Lies! That is Beverly Johnson.

Google lied to me!? She does look a bit thin. :razz:

Post Extras:

Psychonautics
Sailing

Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 28
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11927083 - 01/29/10 09:57 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
It seems from reading this thread... that 'skeptics' AND many 'believers' agree that chakras do not physically exist. They are a tool of the imagination... to aid in allignment of the spine, the flow of the nervous system, the enjoyment of sex... and to aid in meditation.

It also seems there are several people out there who are affraid that IF chakras are CONSIDERED to be imaginary... the whole concept of chakras will stop working. Some people believe you must have faith, in order to get your imaginary chakras to work.

Further, it seems SOME people take their chakras very seriously... and consider people like me, who make threads like this to be the spawn of the devil.

Here's what I think:

Chakras are imaginary... but the nervous system is real. Chakras were invented before the nervous system was understood... and meditation on your imaginary chakras can be a mind blowing PERSONAL experience. Alligning your spine is ALMOST ALWAYS a good thing to practice.

I see nothing wrong with meditation... even if you meditate on imaginary things. I do see something wrong with claiming something imaginary is actually real... especially if you know better.

Chakras are sorta' like Santa Claus... for adults.

What exactly do you mean by alignment of the spine. How exactly is this done procedurally?

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Psychonautics]
#11927289 - 01/29/10 10:48 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Like most animals with spines... a human spine can stack up to support your body weight with minimal effort. However, unlike most animals, humans keep their spines out of alignment most of the time, they slouch for example.

Post Extras:

OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11927338 - 01/29/10 11:04 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Are you calling me a slouch potato? :crankey:

I will tune back in a year from now for your response.

--------------------

This is your drain on brugs.

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11928031 - 01/30/10 04:20 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Like most animals with spines... a human spine can stack up to support your body weight with minimal effort. However, unlike most animals, humans keep their spines out of alignment most of the time, they slouch for example.

How's chiropractic school coming along?

Post Extras:

Psychonautics
Sailing

Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 28
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#11928202 - 01/30/10 06:09 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Is there a certain way an aligned spine will feel as opposed to one that isn't?

Sorry for reviving the dead but my curiosity just gets the best of me (I'm a sloucher, my head leans foward, shoulder plates too far apart, mildly rounded shoulders, vision problems and unneeded tension). If by learning how to align my spine I can learn to relax and alleviate or lessen these problems I'd be extremely grateful.

Edited by Psychonautics (01/30/10 06:10 AM)

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Psychonautics]
#11928249 - 01/30/10 06:39 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I tried all my life. IMO not accepting myself as I was, was the real problem. Much worse then a little bend in the spine. :satansmoking:

Post Extras:

OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#11928955 - 01/30/10 10:00 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

My backbone is an S for spine. You should see what my brain looks like...

--------------------

This is your drain on brugs.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#11930326 - 01/30/10 02:15 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Does it look like a "B"?

Post Extras:

OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11931611 - 01/30/10 05:50 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

That doesn't make sense. :nono:

You sure are a silly wabbit. :bunny:

--------------------

This is your drain on brugs.

Post Extras:

thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#11940073 - 02/01/10 01:40 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

mad ppl know about chakras lol

--------------------

"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: thedudenj]
#11940098 - 02/01/10 01:51 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Yes. Mad people know about chakras.

LOL

Edited by Cervantes (02/01/10 02:40 AM)

Post Extras:

morrowasted

Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 7,561
Loc: USA

Last seen: 16 hours, 47 minutes

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11943773 - 02/01/10 04:56 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Chakra is a word for a phenomenon that definitely exists

if you post here, you probably have more experience using your pineal gland chakra than most people do

--------------------

Not-knowing is true knowledge.
Presuming to know is a disease.
First realize that you are sick;
then you can move toward health.
The Master is her own physician.
She has healed herself of all knowing.

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: morrowasted]
#11943784 - 02/01/10 04:58 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

They exist, but they may be just a model for what is actually happening.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: morrowasted]
#11944761 - 02/01/10 08:07 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Chakra is a word for a phenomenon that definitely exists

if you post here, you probably have more experience using your pineal gland chakra than most people do

Pineal gland chakra?

Why not a right testicle chakra?

Why not a second-knuckle-or-the-left-ring-finger chakra?

Please, show me PROOF that the pineal gland does ANYTHING to do with posting on this website. I'd love to know how this all works.

Hell, show me proof the pineal gland emits DMT. I'd love to see that too.

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11944802 - 02/01/10 08:14 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Why not a second-knuckle-or-the-left-ring-finger chakra?

You must be thinking about acupuncture. :wink:

Post Extras:

morrowasted

Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 7,561
Loc: USA

Last seen: 16 hours, 47 minutes

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#11944816 - 02/01/10 08:16 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I have no knuckle chakra because I did not design myself that way

--------------------

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: morrowasted]
#11944857 - 02/01/10 08:24 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

How DID you design yourself?

Where are YOUR chakras?

:popcorn:

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: morrowasted]
#11944869 - 02/01/10 08:26 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
I have no knuckle chakra because I did not design myself that way

Oh you're doing that "I'm god" thingy. I get it. :monkeydance:

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#11944884 - 02/01/10 08:29 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Hush, Capt. Buzzkill...

I'm trolling for chum.

Post Extras:

thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11946253 - 02/02/10 03:23 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
Chakra is a word for a phenomenon that definitely exists

if you post here, you probably have more experience using your pineal gland chakra than most people do

Pineal gland chakra?

Why not a right testicle chakra?

Why not a second-knuckle-or-the-left-ring-finger chakra?

Please, show me PROOF that the pineal gland does ANYTHING to do with posting on this website. I'd love to know how this all works.

Hell, show me proof the pineal gland emits DMT. I'd love to see that too.

why does the pineal gland have to work to be the thing that makes life so magic. personally i dont agree with all that dmt stuff, there was a time when i might of considered that but it was just during a period of high novelty specially around that sort of thing. any who i think its all the chemicals. i think serotonin clearly is what makes chakras work what is it a system of channeling body energy. the name in latin for Etymology: sero- + tonic + 1-in

: a phenolic amine neurotransmitter C10H12N2O that is a powerful vasoconstrictor and is found especially in the brain, blood serum, and gastric mucous membrane of mammals

if its some sort of thing that constricts then wouldnt it be responsible for how well stuff flows in your body?

if so then couldnt that explain for depression and things like that cause ppl have their mind closed? or what ever area of the chakra system thus not flowing it right or maybe certain areas to open and dont know how to close it. thats would make more sense if ppl that have depression or are more emotional then dont know how to turn off certain things thus have a less over all serotonin level which would more so mean they dont have the capacity to control the flow in their body

no taking that a step further if SSRIs block serptonin its that an example of something comming and blocking sites where a person wouldnt be able to cause their capacity i dunno if this make sense but for some reason it does now. im sure there a way better way to say this but its a feeling more then anyting , specially with bio feed back and ayahuasca and how that effects the body

--------------------

"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Edited by thedudenj (02/02/10 03:49 AM)

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11946385 - 02/02/10 05:10 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
How DID you design yourself?

Where are YOUR chakras?

Everybody has the same chakras.

Post Extras:

thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11946388 - 02/02/10 05:14 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

REGISTERED USER said:
Quote:

Cervantes said:
How DID you design yourself?

Where are YOUR chakras?

Everybody has the same chakras.

in other words everyones body has the similar limits its just a matter of whether or not you know them and from that know how to use it.

excercise exists with in more then just the pyhysical dimensions

--------------------

"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Post Extras:

The Chronic

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,041

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#11946481 - 02/02/10 05:58 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

Why not a second-knuckle-or-the-left-ring-finger chakra?

You must be thinking about acupuncture.

Kinda true though, if you think about it everything in our body is a chakra, (energy centre) right down to all of our skin pores

I know when i feel dirty i feel weighed down, like energies being blocked, but after a nice shower i feel clean & light, like some energy has been freed up

An easy way to become aware of your chakras is when you feel a particular feeling, try & feel where in your body you feel it, like if we see an attractive female, we may think upstairs in our heads 'she hot' but the actual feeling ofit that initially triggers the thought, comes from alot lower down :wink:

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: The Chronic]
#11946523 - 02/02/10 06:13 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Well if our body is really a part of a larger organ called the brain, that would make sense.

Post Extras:

OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: The Chronic]
#11946835 - 02/02/10 08:24 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

if you think about it everything in our body is a chakra

Every point cannot be a center unless we are perfect spheres.

Thinking about something does not automatically give it any credence.

A shower is evidence of chakras?

More nonsense.

--------------------

This is your drain on brugs.

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#11946875 - 02/02/10 08:39 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I only have one chakra. It's the biggest goddamn chakra since the state of Texas. :fatbastard:

Post Extras:

OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#11946919 - 02/02/10 08:51 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Funny how people believe in the same number of chakras as the first book they read about them. And they are so real that there are numerous different ex-spurts each claiming a different number of chakras.

Such is imagination. :shrug:

--------------------

This is your drain on brugs.

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#11946958 - 02/02/10 09:03 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I read a true book that said there are eleventy seven of them, give or take a few.

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#11947231 - 02/02/10 10:07 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

if you think about it everything in our body is a chakra

Every point cannot be a center unless we are perfect spheres.

Thinking about something does not automatically give it any credence.

A shower is evidence of chakras?

More nonsense.

Only round things have a center of gravity. :rolleyes:

Post Extras:

OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11947257 - 02/02/10 10:13 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Physics fail. All objects have a center of gravity.

:failboat:

--------------------

This is your drain on brugs.

Post Extras:

morrowasted

Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 7,561
Loc: USA

Last seen: 16 hours, 47 minutes

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#11947301 - 02/02/10 10:23 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

there are seven chakras

--------------------

Post Extras:

OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: morrowasted]
#11947321 - 02/02/10 10:27 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

And you base this upon what exactly?

--------------------

This is your drain on brugs.

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#11947831 - 02/02/10 12:29 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:

Every point cannot be a center unless we are perfect spheres.

Logic Fail!

:failboat:

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#11947838 - 02/02/10 12:30 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Physics fail. All objects have a center of gravity.

Understanding sarcasm fail!

:failboat:

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: morrowasted]
#11947847 - 02/02/10 12:31 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
there are seven chakras

Tibetans believe there are five main Chakras.

Post Extras:

OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11947866 - 02/02/10 12:34 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Tibetans believe spinning wheels many thousands of times makes prayers come true - like stopping a Chinese invasion.

--------------------

This is your drain on brugs.

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#11947900 - 02/02/10 12:39 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Tibetans believe spinning wheels many thousands of times makes prayers come true - like stopping a Chinese invasion.

Chakra thread post fail.

:failboat:

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11948903 - 02/02/10 03:28 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

thedudenj said:
Quote:

REGISTERED USER said:
Quote:

Cervantes said:
How DID you design yourself?

Where are YOUR chakras?

Everybody has the same chakras.

in other words everyones body has the similar limits its just a matter of whether or not you know them and from that know how to use it.

excercise exists with in more then just the pyhysical dimensions

See, this is the problem with this discussion:

I want y'all chakra believers to show me a chakra. Show me a PICTURE of a chakra, not a diagram. Anyone can draw. Show me the medical journals about chakras. Show me the medicine that targets specific chakras.

As it stands, thanks to the evidence y'all have failed to provide, chakras seem to me, to be as unlikely as the female orgasm. In other words, chakras don't exist.

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11949008 - 02/02/10 03:43 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe Female orgasms and Chakras don't exist in your world, but they do in mine. Try Yoga, might help you in both areas.

Good luck.

Post Extras:

amuzakat
Growing mutant shrooms

Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 519
Loc: Europe

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11949075 - 02/02/10 03:50 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:

See, this is the problem with this discussion:

I want y'all chakra believers to show me a chakra. Show me a PICTURE of a chakra, not a diagram. Anyone can draw. Show me the medical journals about chakras. Show me the medicine that targets specific chakras.

As it stands, thanks to the evidence y'all have failed to provide, chakras seem to me, to be as unlikely as the female orgasm. In other words, chakras don't exist.

I'm not a believer in the any chakra system as such, I'm a believer in acupuncture. As are plenty of M.D.s.

Anyway, like so many other things in the mind it doesn't matter so much if the chakras are "really" there, except if you pay someone 1000US$ to cure your impotence by fixing your chakras (don't do that, chances are high it won't work). Chakras provide a key stone in a particular way of thinking and feeling, and have a high value for some of those who understand this. For some of those who don't get it, it's just a waste of time.

Are thoughts real? Yeah, I would say, though I can't prove it, but I would say they are real because you think them. Do thoughts have value? Most are probably redundant, in some people, but it would be wrong to say some individuals have not accomplished great things by thought. Unlike some other types of thought "chakras" are unlikely to give you a Nobel prize, but they may give you that happy "gut feeling" you never knew you were looking for, etc. So I can imagine worse thoughts than these. But in many situations much more interesting thoughts too.

It's just my .02, obviously. And I regret to say I don't care to read the whole thread, I just read the first and the last posts, so if someone already said this I apologize for more nonsense.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11949307 - 02/02/10 04:16 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

REGISTERED USER said:
Maybe Female orgasms and Chakras don't exist in your world, but they do in mine. Try Yoga, might help you in both areas.

Good luck.

How is my world different than your world?

How will Yoga help me with female orgasms?

You still have not shown me a chakra, or told me what it does, or showed me what medicines can help a chakra heal or improve performance... so I still maintain this: Chakras are imaginary spots on your body which can be used to help one focus during meditation.

:popcorn:

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: amuzakat]
#11949349 - 02/02/10 04:21 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Well spake.

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11949392 - 02/02/10 04:26 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Quote:

REGISTERED USER said:
Maybe Female orgasms and Chakras don't exist in your world, but they do in mine. Try Yoga, might help you in both areas.

Good luck.

How is my world different than your world?

I told you I have Chakras and my females have orgasms.

Quote:

You still have not shown me a chakra, or told me what it does, or showed me what medicines can help a chakra heal or improve performance... so I still maintain this: Chakras are imaginary spots on your body which can be used to help one focus during meditation.

That is nice.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11949439 - 02/02/10 04:32 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

You told me you have chakras.

And now I am telling you I have seven eyes and a third testicle.

Doesn't make it true.

And everybody but you seems to realize my FEMALE ORGASM comment was a joke (and a rather decent one at that).

I'm willing to bet that I have more solid evidence that you are a puppet, than you have concerning the reification of chakras.

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11949465 - 02/02/10 04:35 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
I am telling you I have seven eyes and a third testicle.

Now we are zeroing in on that female orgasm problem. Try some plastic surgery.

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11949479 - 02/02/10 04:38 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Nice direct answer. When you have a case you really know how to present it. :thumbup:

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11949480 - 02/02/10 04:38 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Hush, Capt. Buzzkill...

I'm trolling for chum.

You have exposed your motivation. I wouldn't hold out for any serious response from me. I think this forum need to collectively pull the metaphoric scientific skeptic stick out of it's ass and lighten up.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11949482 - 02/02/10 04:38 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Whoa Nelly! Hold off on the personalisms.

You picked a great username. You may want to keep it for a while.

Post Extras:

thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11949497 - 02/02/10 04:39 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

oh man theres nothing like doing energy work on a chick then going physical then just playing with their orgasm and rocking all the chakras with it then passing it in and out your body while achieving your own orgasm then passing it back and forth oh my tantra

--------------------

"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11949507 - 02/02/10 04:41 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

REGISTERED USER said:
Quote:

Cervantes said:
Hush, Capt. Buzzkill...

I'm trolling for chum.

You have exposed your motivation. I wouldn't hold out for any serious response from me. I think this forum need to collectively pull the metaphoric scientific skeptic stick out of it's ass and lighten up.

You obviously are new here, since you seem to have trouble telling when I am telling a joke and when I am serious.

Either that, or you just have not perused the rules.

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11949511 - 02/02/10 04:41 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Whoa Nelly! Hold off on the personalisms.

You picked a great username. You may want to keep it for a while.

What personalism would that be? Is the forum a person?

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 5 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11949514 - 02/02/10 04:41 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Nice editing. Must've got it in before the timer clicked 5 minutes.

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11949516 - 02/02/10 04:42 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:

You obviously are new here, since you seem to have trouble telling when I am telling a joke and when I am serious.

Would my 1/31/10 registration date be the give away?

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11949517 - 02/02/10 04:42 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I wouldn't hold out for any serious response from me.

At least you're consistent. :thumbup:

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11949520 - 02/02/10 04:43 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Nice editing. Must've got it in before the timer clicked 5 minutes.

I edited nothing. Try again dude.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 6 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11949523 - 02/02/10 04:43 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

REGISTERED USER said:
Quote:

Cervantes said:

You obviously are new here, since you seem to have trouble telling when I am telling a joke and when I am serious.

Would my 1/31/10 registration date be the give away?

Not only is it PROOF that you are new, it indeed proves the existence of chakras as well!

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11949543 - 02/02/10 04:47 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

You are batting zero, care to try again?

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11949558 - 02/02/10 04:49 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

You aren't new here?

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#11949565 - 02/02/10 04:51 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You aren't new here?

You guys are confusing me. :confused:

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11949642 - 02/02/10 05:02 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry.

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#11949661 - 02/02/10 05:04 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I am used to it.

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11949700 - 02/02/10 05:11 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Being used to being confused I'm sure has it's up side. :thumbup:

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 6 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11949942 - 02/02/10 05:46 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:

You still have not shown me a chakra, or told me what it does, or showed me what medicines can help a chakra heal or improve performance... so I still maintain this: Chakras are imaginary spots on your body which can be used to help one focus during meditation.

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11950053 - 02/02/10 06:01 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

You are confusing me with someone who cares what you think. If you want answers, buy a book.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 6 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11950057 - 02/02/10 06:02 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Kindly suggest the book... or I suspect you won't be here long.

Look, the rules of this forum are really simple.

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11950145 - 02/02/10 06:14 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I read the rules. It doesn't say I have to answer your questions. A popular book is Wheels of Life by Anodea Judith.

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11950154 - 02/02/10 06:15 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

He don't got to answer no stinking questions. :holyshit:

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#11950169 - 02/02/10 06:17 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Attacking mystics is the game here. It seems convoluted.

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11950193 - 02/02/10 06:20 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Are you a real mystic. :whoa:

I had no idea. I just thought you were a puppet. :shrug:

Don't be doin no Voodoo spells on me now. :crazy:

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#11950208 - 02/02/10 06:21 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Did I say I was a mystic?

Hint: NO

Post Extras:

laotzo
Struggling with Math

Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 1,807
Loc: Texas, poo country

Last seen: 1 year, 4 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#11950217 - 02/02/10 06:23 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

if you want an interesting first person point of view book, written by a western psychologist and combat vet who also was a martial arts master and student of East Indian kundalini yogic systems...he claims to have awakened his kundalini energy by himself, which apparently was enough to really damage him for a bit, since he didn't know to do a lot of things that he learned later.

any way..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoshin_Roshi_Ryu

interesting stuff. i saw him do some things that were, to me, inexplicable.

--------------------
if you can't beat them, arrange to have it done.

george carlin...RIP :heart:

laotzo

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11950222 - 02/02/10 06:23 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Well I've never seen another one here. So we can't attack things that don't exist. I just assumed you meant you. Sorry.

Post Extras:

REGISTERED USER
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 93
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#11950232 - 02/02/10 06:25 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Well I've never seen another one here. So we can't attack things that don't exist. I just assumed you meant you. Sorry.

Big fish small pond

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: laotzo]
#11950249 - 02/02/10 06:27 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

laotzo said:
if you want an interesting first person point of view book, written by a western psychologist and combat vet who also was a martial arts master and student of East Indian kundalini yogic systems...he claims to have awakened his kundalini energy by himself, which apparently was enough to really damage him for a bit, since he didn't know to do a lot of things that he learned later.

any way..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoshin_Roshi_Ryu

interesting stuff. i saw him do some things that were, to me, inexplicable.

he claims

This is always the problem for me. I've been around people all my life who claimed power and wouldn't demonstrate it when asked or who claimed they knew someone who had it. You know how many books are out there with someone claiming something you will never see yourself? Who do you choose to believe? In the mean time the Randi million just gathers dust.

But honestly I remain ultimately agnostic on all this. I'm just waiting to see it in person or experience something for myself.

Post Extras:

OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#11950306 - 02/02/10 06:36 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

For a guy into super-health, he checked out long before your average obese smoker.

--------------------

This is your drain on brugs.

Post Extras:

OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#11950349 - 02/02/10 06:42 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

This is always the problem for me. I've been around people all my life who claimed power and wouldn't demonstrate it when asked or who claimed they knew someone who had it.

I knew a guy who claimed his Master, the founder of Ba Gua and in his 80s at the time, could not be defeated.

True story.

Remember that Master's only like to run tiny dojos and impress their handful of incredulous students at $100 a month rather than win millions in a cage.

--------------------

This is your drain on brugs.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 6 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: REGISTERED USER]
#11951981 - 02/02/10 11:18 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

REGISTERED USER said:
Attacking mystics is the game here. It seems convoluted.

Wow. You really know this place well.

Quote:

REGISTERED USER said:
I read the rules. It doesn't say I have to answer your questions.

True... but it does say this:

Quote:

This debate-oriented forum is for the discussion of philosophical ideas that can be backed up with some sort of thoughtful logic and reasoning.

And this...

Quote:

If you choose to post in this forum be prepared to have your ideas and opinions challenged, refuted, disputed, rebutted, analyzed, shredded, pooh-poohed, and yes - even supported. If having your beliefs, opinions, and positions scrutinized critically makes you uncomfortable, this is not the forum for you.

Welcome to The Shroomery.

Post Extras:

OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11952003 - 02/02/10 11:24 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

For some, whining is more fun than understanding the house rules and/or how to properly debate. :shrug:

--------------------

This is your drain on brugs.

Post Extras:

Aleph1
Dasein

Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 457
Last seen: 2 years, 25 days

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#11952032 - 02/02/10 11:31 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Chakras are points on your spine and brain, a mapping of the human nervous system. Is not just some eastern bullshit

--------------------
Who you jivin' with that cosmic debris?

Post Extras:

OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Aleph1]
#11952079 - 02/02/10 11:41 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Clarify. There are a zillion number of points on your spine.

--------------------

This is your drain on brugs.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 6 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Aleph1]
#11952210 - 02/03/10 12:14 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Aleph1 said:
Chakras are points on your spine and brain, a mapping of the human nervous system. Is not just some eastern bullshit

I think a diagram of the spine and brain would serve as a 'Map'... since maps are REPRESENTATIONS.

If chakras are a Map (which is a theory I am willing to entertain) wouldn't they have to be representations too?

Post Extras:

Aleph1
Dasein

Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 457
Last seen: 2 years, 25 days

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#11952394 - 02/03/10 01:30 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Clarify. There are a zillion number of points on your spine.

And these happen to be some points. For instance compression in the lower back would result in abdominal pain, by "clearing the chakra" or just getting a massage the discomfort is remedied. Compression in the upper back or knotting is constantly conjoined with anxiety and stress, again stretching or a massage will improve upon both stress and the back.

More simply put approximate locations in the spine correspond directly to seemingly unrelated bodily phenomena.

--------------------
Who you jivin' with that cosmic debris?

Post Extras:

Aleph1
Dasein

Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 457
Last seen: 2 years, 25 days

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11952406 - 02/03/10 01:36 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Quote:

Aleph1 said:
Chakras are points on your spine and brain, a mapping of the human nervous system. Is not just some eastern bullshit

I think a diagram of the spine and brain would serve as a 'Map'... since maps are REPRESENTATIONS.

If chakras are a Map (which is a theory I am willing to entertain) wouldn't they have to be representations too?

Mapping means a one-to-one and onto correspondence from one thing to another, as in a geographical map. In this case the chakras map to other body locations.

Representations? The two things, the map and the real thing are not representative if you mean they are similar in appearance or function.

--------------------
Who you jivin' with that cosmic debris?

Post Extras:

OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Aleph1]
#11952412 - 02/03/10 01:37 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Dude, you are all over the map.

Pinched nerves are well understood and have no relationship to the traditional chakra definitions.

Tense muscles also have nothing to do with traditional chakra definitions.

And now "chakra clearing" = massage?

Impossible to follow you.

--------------------

This is your drain on brugs.

Post Extras:

Cervantes
Devil's Advocate

Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill

Last seen: 23 minutes, 6 seconds

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Aleph1]
#11954386 - 02/03/10 12:35 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Aleph1 said:
Mapping means a one-to-one and onto correspondence from one thing to another, as in a geographical map. .

I have trouble understanding this thought... but it seems you are suggesting that maps are the SAME SIZE as the thing they are mapping.

No, maps are scaled representations. A map of your home town is a piece of PAPER which REPRESENTS the actual city around you.

If chakras are a map (and again, I am willing to entertain this idea) then they REPRESENT something else.

Post Extras:

Aleph1
Dasein

Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 457
Last seen: 2 years, 25 days

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11954723 - 02/03/10 01:24 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Quote:

Aleph1 said:
Mapping means a one-to-one and onto correspondence from one thing to another, as in a geographical map. .

I have trouble understanding this thought... but it seems you are suggesting that maps are the SAME SIZE as the thing they are mapping.

No, maps are scaled representations. A map of your home town is a piece of PAPER which REPRESENTS the actual city around you.

If chakras are a map (and again, I am willing to entertain this idea) then they REPRESENT something else.

No I don't mean that the map is the same size as the thing it corresponds. These points on the spine represent other parts of the human body.

--------------------
Who you jivin' with that cosmic debris?

Post Extras:

Diploid
Cuban

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#11955857 - 02/03/10 03:45 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I have trouble understanding this thought... but it seems you are suggesting that maps are the SAME SIZE as the thing they are mapping.

He's thinking "mapping" in the context of Set Theory.

Aleph 1. Get it? :tongue2:

Post Extras:

thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#11957174 - 02/03/10 06:40 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

hey to your comment about show you a picture of chakras why dont you show me a picture of air or any other invisible gas?

--------------------

"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Post Extras:

Diploid
Cuban

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: thedudenj]
#11957464 - 02/03/10 07:20 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

show me a picture of air or any other invisible gas?

I'm not sure why you're asking me that, but here you go. Air is 21% oxygen and 79% nitrogen, give or take.

Oxygen looks like this:

Nitrogen looks like this:

Even when not liquefied, air can be felt in a breeze, it has weight that can be measured when you fill a scuba tank, it transmits energy in the form of sound and convection, and lots of other things that make its existence real.

Not chakras. They can't be seen, measured, touched, captured, or anything else at all. :shrug:

Post Extras:

thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#11958538 - 02/03/10 09:53 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

metahpysical energy can totally be felt its your problem if you dont know how to feel it. ugh theres a better example. i just cant think of it now. i guess i could say show me a picture of a smell? or the feeling a smell can excite.

--------------------

"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Post Extras:

Diploid
Cuban

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: thedudenj]
#11958562 - 02/03/10 09:57 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

metahpysical energy can totally be felt

:blah:

There's a million dollar prize waiting for you if you can do this. Talk is cheap. What are you waiting for?

Post Extras:

OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#11958772 - 02/03/10 10:29 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

What are you waiting for?

People who can be easily convinced.

--------------------

This is your drain on brugs.

Post Extras:

deranger

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#11958831 - 02/03/10 10:37 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

lol @ this thread

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: thedudenj]
#11959715 - 02/04/10 04:45 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

thedudenj said:
metahpysical energy can totally be felt its your problem if you dont know how to feel it. ugh theres a better example. i just cant think of it now. i guess i could say show me a picture of a smell? or the feeling a smell can excite.

Totally dude. :crazy2:

Post Extras:

xZarathustra
Stranger

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 6
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#11960114 - 02/04/10 07:15 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Do chakras exist? I don't know. This is something me and my friend were having a duscission about last night. I know I have felt a poping or opening sensation in my forhead, have had heat in my heart an daily have energy and heat sensations in my back but that is also a symptom of anxiety so who knows. I'm on the fence with this one but if they exist or not really dosen't matter to me. If they exist there should be some way to scientificaly test if they exist or not and I have never seen any hard proof of there existence... My psychologist believes in chakras. I'm thinking that maybe I should stay away from him though :rolleyes:

.

I really hope they don't. If they did, thats kinda creepy.

--------------------

Edited by xZarathustra (02/04/10 07:21 AM)

Post Extras:

thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Icelander]
#11960949 - 02/04/10 09:56 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

thedudenj said:
metahpysical energy can totally be felt its your problem if you dont know how to feel it. ugh theres a better example. i just cant think of it now. i guess i could say show me a picture of a smell? or the feeling a smell can excite.

Totally dude.

seriously tho can you draw me a picture of what an orange taste like so you can fully describe to me what it taste like with out me actually tasting it or smelling it ever in life or anything thats even ermotely simmilar

--------------------

"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

Post Extras:

Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly

Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: thedudenj]
#11960961 - 02/04/10 09:57 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

What does that have to do with anything? I can see and eat a fucking orange. I only need hand you one and you can see for yourself.

Post Extras:

Jump to top.

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 [ show all ]

Shop for:

Ayahuasca, Toilet Paper

Microscope, Scales

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar Threads	Poster	Views	Replies	Last post
Evidence of Chakras? ( 1 2 all )	chunder	1,128	36	09/25/03 04:56 AM by MarkostheGnostic
Poll: Take the Chakra Test: Are you in Balance or Not? ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )	ShroomDoom	4,195	135	03/10/09 04:03 PM by Platinum
The Chakras are very interesting.	Vectorman11	361	8	03/05/08 09:57 AM by Icelander
How to find a chakra ( 1 2 3 4 all )	Rahz	1,666	68	11/14/07 11:52 PM by Kinematics
About how we generate our ideas of things like chakra's, sleep paralysis, telepthy.	AlphaFalfa	646	8	07/31/08 03:28 PM by AlphaFalfa
The Chakras...	Anonymous	681	10	12/11/01 12:47 PM by Anonymous
Chakras	Rahz	332	4	10/11/07 12:01 AM by Rahz
chakras: scientific evidence? ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )	x7x_x7x	2,905	114	08/15/08 11:14 AM by ChiefGreenLeaf

Extra information

You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Mr. Middle, Diploid
5,936 topic views. 3 members, 15 guests and 0 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic ]

del.icio.us digg Furl MyWeb reddit StumbleUpon