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 Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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I keep encountering women who have the ability to immediately open my second chakra
This is an easily demonstrable assertion if it is true.
You are aware that you and these women could immediately win the JREF million dollar prize and retire early, no? Not to mention the incredible service you'd render to mankind by opening a new avenue of scientific inquiry and ushering in a new era of discovery.
So why not? I don't get it.
/me is confused...
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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 MarkostheGnostic
Elder
 
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 8,634
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 1 day, 23 hours
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 Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8658952 - 07/20/08 12:32 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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"From the available evidence, I'd say that chakras are yet another example of the human capacity for self-deception when we want something to be true."
This response is either due to a lack of training in subtle awareness, or yet another example of an attitude of simple disbelief in anything which is not readily available to an untrained eye.
I'll give you some examples of some of the more physical-emotional dimensions of chakra psychology that will show you basic correlations of psychophysical loci of chakra experience. Let me use the most commonly known system: Hindu Tantra.
From the Muladhara or perineal center, which is connected with the motive of survival and its correlating emotion, fear. In a situation which threatens one's physical survival, there is a Muladhara energization which can result in one shitting him/herself. Obviosly things are going on everywhere else in the physical body and in the location of chakra sites, but this event is common enough. There are execises for arousing the Kundalini, not intended to cause defecation, but intended to energize the survival mode of the person which will energize and release energy at that chakra, but the technique alledges that the energy can be directed into the spinal column and moved upward. This technique deals will near-suffocation, but is controlled by the practitioner. Certain visualizations and focus on that center along with a particular type of breath-retention that is part of a 3-stage breathing technique (pranayama).
The Svadhisthana or genital center, when energized has feelings and sensations that I'm confident you yourself have experienced. It is related to the Muladhara energetically which is why the two are combined in the Tibetan systems as the Root Center. The anal-genital psychology has been best explicated in the West by Sigmund Freud, despite his sexist errors. Clearly, Greek Eros, is an energy which is related to Kundalini. 'Greek sex' is associated with anal sex. Both have mythological and metaphysical properties ascribed by Plato and by Indian sages because there is a numinous quality to fear and to lust. Sex magick usually has low-brow intentions, whereas sex mysticism is rather high-brow in its goal, which is not manipulative as is sex magick. Both use orgasmic release coupled with cognitive intentionality. Bottom line: we all know what our second chakra energies 'feel' like.
Manipura or navel center, with its Indo-Aryan root for our word manipu-lation is the power center. Someone is said to 'have guts' when this center, which has a particular relationship with our survival center Muladhara, when one is able to overcome the overload of energy and act decisively. Butterflies, anxiety or whatever feelings of an emotionally petrifying way are overcome by the skillful use of this 'pranic battery,' this 'solar plexus' of prana, chi, ki or li, depending upon the tradition. The Japanese "Ki Ya!" in Shotokan Karate is a well known vocal expression from the Hara center. This is the Castenedian "gap" of Don Juan and Don Genero, with 'fibers of will' in that model (real or fictional). This is the primary center in Tibetan practices of producing the documented 'Tummo' or Inner Fire which enables yogis to dry wet sheets on their bodies in the Himalayas and melt circles of snow around them. It is the Adlerian "will to power," borrowed by that psychologist from Nietzsche to descibe the psychology of people whose personalities are not organized around Freudian dynamics, but around "superiority vs. inferiority," and "social interest," who are power-centric. So here, I've given physical, psychic (a non-cognitive, pre-psychological energy) and psychological correlates of the Manipura.
The Anahata heart center symbolizes the first movement from psychophysical (1st), psychosexual (2nd) and psychosocial (3rd) motivations of human behavior to psychospiritual development. Feeling states of 'warmth,' sympathy, empathy and compassion are correlated with this center which has physical (muscle), astral (chakra) and causal associations (Sacred Heart/Hridayam). Even 'wrenching' sensations of a 'broken heart' are reported by some as the ego-centric motivations of the first 3 centers are transcended. Motivated from this center, individuals will sacrifice their lives for another. It becomes the center of self-sacrificial love, symbolized by Christ or as Kabbalistic Tiphereth, the Diamond Body, Atman or Heart Cave (which BE HERE NOW identified with "unbearable compassion"). As a place of primal identity, individuals almost universally point to this region when pointing to themselves. It is the 'seat of mind' in Tibetan Buddhism and was as well in ancient Egypt - both recognizing that the brain center is but the reflected (lunar) aspect of the heart enter (solar) from which Life wells up. More than the sensate identification with a heart-beat, is an intuitve understanding of the heart center. It is the seed syllable HUM (and coincidentally the plane of HUMan Realization) in Vajrayana.
Now, you may not give a rat's ass about why human beings from time immemorial have made associations with processes more subtle than physical processes. Perhaps you simply ascribe scientific ignorance to the ancients, which indeed they had about physical processes, but that owas apparently compensated by having their intuitive function far wider than most people today, and through intuition transcendental perception enter awareness. There is a spiritual and a psychological genius evidenced by ancient peoples that you do not appreciate. Clearly, all the scientific advances which have kept us alive and physically healthy have not contributed to a more eveolved humanity. Most of the multitudes are governed entirely by the lower centers, else the world would be populated by saints and Christs. Human beinghood is better grokked by metaphor than by scientific jargon since science applies only to our physical foundations, less for our psychological nature (except the lower aspects more closely allied to the physical processes and limbic system), and not at all for the transcendental aspects of awareness which do not originate with human nature.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Prove me wrong instead of just talking, Markos. Win the JREF prize and shut me up once and for all. Should be easy if you can really do what you say you can do. 
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8658967 - 07/20/08 12:37 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8658970 - 07/20/08 12:39 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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wow... some nice visuals can be had after focusing on the center point of the opening lotus in that video 
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Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill 
Last seen: 23 minutes
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Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8659001 - 07/20/08 12:49 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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It seems from reading this thread... that 'skeptics' AND many 'believers' agree that chakras do not physically exist. They are a tool of the imagination... to aid in allignment of the spine, the flow of the nervous system, the enjoyment of sex... and to aid in meditation.
It also seems there are several people out there who are affraid that IF chakras are CONSIDERED to be imaginary... the whole concept of chakras will stop working. Some people believe you must have faith, in order to get your imaginary chakras to work.
Further, it seems SOME people take their chakras very seriously... and consider people like me, who make threads like this to be the spawn of the devil.
Here's what I think:
Chakras are imaginary... but the nervous system is real. Chakras were invented before the nervous system was understood... and meditation on your imaginary chakras can be a mind blowing PERSONAL experience. Alligning your spine is ALMOST ALWAYS a good thing to practice.
I see nothing wrong with meditation... even if you meditate on imaginary things. I do see something wrong with claiming something imaginary is actually real... especially if you know better.
Chakras are sorta' like Santa Claus... for adults.
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I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8659010 - 07/20/08 12:52 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Further, it seems SOME people take their chakras very seriously...
seriousness closes the solar plexus chakra... duh 
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8659026 - 07/20/08 12:55 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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we got those who are serious about the existence of chakras, and those who are serious about the nonexistence of them.
it's a two sided coin 
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Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 23 minutes
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Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8659030 - 07/20/08 12:56 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
SyntheticMInd said:
we got those who are serious about the existence of chakras, and those who are serious about the nonexistence of them.
it's a two sided coin
I have been saying that for months.
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I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645
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Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: deranger]
#8659033 - 07/20/08 12:58 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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santa clause for adults??
I don't think this is what you came to through this thread, but it is what you had in mind prior to opening this thread.
btw is devil's spawn a personalism or a kind of santa-claus-ism
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Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 23 minutes
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
santa clause for adults??
Yes. Adults believe in something invisible... and it makes the experience extra-special.
Just like kids and the jolly, child-molesting elf.
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I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,645
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Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8659066 - 07/20/08 01:07 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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i think santa clause is a personalism
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Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 23 minutes
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I'd think so too... if he was real, and a member of these boards... and I had called him a child molester.
I think your apparent need to continue goading me... and a couple days too late I might add... is quite unlike the Buddha.
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I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Cervantes]
#8659104 - 07/20/08 01:19 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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--------------------
Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 23 minutes
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Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8659117 - 07/20/08 01:22 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
I'd think so too... if he was real, and a member of these boards
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showprofile.php?Cat=&User=109048&page=1&what=showmembers 
Go fuck yourself Santa Claus.
Oops!
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I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
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Diaboleros
Devil's spawn
Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 1,856
Last seen: 8 days, 2 hours
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Maybe the right question would be "Is chakra meditation useful?"
Does time exist? No. Time is nothing but a concept of the human mind to better understand this world. There is no time, only now. Do colors exist? No. Colors are nothing but a concept of the human mind to differentiate between different vibrations of energy. Does sound exist? No. Sound is nothing but a hallucination based on airwaves. Or sometimes based on your thinking (inner speech).
Do chakras exist? No idea. Theres no source that I have found that actually decribes chakras elaborately. But as far as I can tell, chakras are definitely a useful concept to better understand the working of our body, and our nervous system. Our memory extends all over our body through the nervous system, even our feet have memory. Memory is not only kept inside our head. If we can meditate to make our brain work better, why wouldn't we be able to meditate to make our nervous system work better? (assuming chakras are actually some sort of mapping of the energy in the nervous system)
I've only recently found out about chakras and meditation, I've read a lot about it, but have little experience. From the experience I have, I can say chakra meditation is useful. So in the end, to me, it only matters weather it is useful or not. I will not stop using the concept of time just because time doesn't exist. I will not ignore colors or sound because they don't really exist. The only thing that really matters is weaher the concept is useful or not IMHO. Right now, theres no way to scientificly tell weather chakras exist or not, because science has only recently started to explore this field. So why not just try them out and see if they are useful during your meditation... the only way to truly know is first hand experience.
Edited by Diaboleros (07/20/08 01:32 PM)
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daytripper23
?
Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:
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Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8659343 - 07/20/08 02:05 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Wow I am sure glad this is a funny territory now.
Its nothing personal,
but I find it philosophically interesting that all my posts, which were very explicit attempts to defend MYself, were deleted, on grounds of them being personalisms. Apparently it was too personal for me to talk about myself.
I was just thinking about these posts, which are lost for the moment, and thought maybe I would compare their personal-ness, with the posts of Cervantes', which were directed at my character (not a single one considered as yet).
Even more interesting, the said post that had started all, this personalism was not deleted. The only post that was personal in my opinion, the one about douchery, was not deleted either.
ha ha ha ha
I mean Dippers, you can ban me, thats in your right. But in my opinion there has been some tampering with evidence.
yes funny territory, I concur. Don't delete my jokes though! Theyre just jokes!
Maybe someone will see this, or maybe it will disappear like any other attempt of mine to prove myself.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,612
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: Diploid]
#8659361 - 07/20/08 02:10 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
Prove me wrong instead of just talking, Markos. Win the JREF prize and shut me up once and for all. Should be easy if you can really do what you say you can do.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 13,387
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 23 minutes
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Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: daytripper23]
#8659362 - 07/20/08 02:10 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
daytripper23 said:
Wow I am sure glad this is a funny territory now.
Its nothing personal,
True and true.
Now, if you wish to discuss this further... contact Dip via PM.
Good to have you back.
Just keep keeping it non-personal. 
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I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Chakras? Do they exist? [Re: daytripper23]
#8659369 - 07/20/08 02:11 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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daytripper23, we've moved on. Drop it or you'll go on another (longer) vacation. I won't say this again.
--------------------
Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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