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Offlinecamplo
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Mycelium nutrient consolidation and dunking. When vs Where
    #8382926 - 05/09/08 07:21 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Ok I'm a firm believer in allowing your 100% colonize "substrate" chill for almost a week before introducing to a fruiting environment.

Ok I'm spawning rye to vermiculite. There's so many ways to go about this. I could let the mycelium consolidate nutrients in the jar before laying out or lay it out into tray with verm let that reach 100% and then let it consolidate, PLUS dunking could (but I don't know if should) be done before or after this consolidation of nutrients.

Is there a preferred order of things?


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:three:

Edited by camplo (05/09/08 07:23 PM)

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Mycelium nutrient consolidation and dunking. When vs Where [Re: camplo]
    #8383077 - 05/09/08 08:13 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

You don't spawn to vermiculite. It's a mostly inert mineral. Spawn to manure or straw, and then when that colonizes, introduce fruiting conditions.
RR


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Offlinecamplo
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Re: Mycelium nutrient consolidation and dunking. When vs Where [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #8385918 - 05/10/08 04:00 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I was hoping I could get you personally to answer my question about what order to do things. I am spawning to or should I say "adding verm" for the what they call rez effect" around these parts.but im not going to add it until it comes out of the jars. So if spawning means to add "spawn" to another substance in order to get it to colonize it then yes Im spawning to verm.

regardless of what im spawning to (I know Ive seen you say dont dunk manure so skip that one)

When should one dunk? Before the nutrient consolidation, after. Should dunk before or after laying out, rye grain, In my case. Should or can I let the rye consolidate nutrients in there individual jars before laying our or after I lay them out in tray. your opinion is very much respected. Hope to get a detailed answer. thanks
camplo



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:three:

Edited by camplo (05/10/08 04:09 PM)

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InvisibleHoleSnype
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Re: Mycelium nutrient consolidation and dunking. When vs Where [Re: camplo]
    #8385962 - 05/10/08 04:13 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

WTF?


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Offlinerev 766
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Re: Mycelium nutrient consolidation and dunking. When vs Where [Re: camplo]
    #8385987 - 05/10/08 04:21 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

my friend is somewhat new to this hobby, but has had some success and no major fuck-ups so far. i think what he would do is just spawn to whatever when the rye is at 100%. i'm not sure what you mean by "consolidating nutrients", but if it is fully colonized then most of the nutrients should be consolidated :confused:. i could be wrong, but i think if they weren't then contamination would be a bigger risk. plus, i realize you said ignore the verm thing, but i must say nothing will colonize verm, as it has no nutes. my friend is in the process of colonizing coir/coffeewater/coffee grounds. going slow, but it has nutes. bottom line, from what i know, is 100% colonization is a fine time to spawn.


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Offlinerev 766
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Re: Mycelium nutrient consolidation and dunking. When vs Where [Re: rev 766]
    #8385991 - 05/10/08 04:23 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

wait a minute, dunking grain? i think if your going to dunk you do that after the first flush with grain casings/bulk grows.


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praise "Bob"
did you mean shmooed-R.I.P.

"drought besets the mind, decay besets the man"-me

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Offlinecamplo
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Re: Mycelium nutrient consolidation and dunking. When vs Where [Re: rev 766]
    #8386046 - 05/10/08 04:38 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

WEll it was an RR post (which is strange cause he doesnt seem to spport it in the post above) that I picked up on nutrient consolidation. After your substrate has reached 100% colonization you should wait a good week before you case and introduce into fruiting environment. Give the mycelium time to eat and store nutrients.

I dont know if anything will or will not colonize verm  but I'll take your word for it. Adding verm into the substrate "for me" is just for the water reserve. Plus fluffing up the substrate as they do with composted cow manure with verm to give a better texture.

Rez effect evidence. you guys treat me like im just making shit up... :box:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2240873&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#Post2276246

And the RR post about mycelium consolidation
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6856211#6856211

:eek: look he does know what hes talking about :eek:

So back tot he topic of my post. I WANT to dunk and I want to add verm to my grains and i want to let the mycelium consolidate. But there are too many different orders to do things that Im asking for some advice. Anyone got a clue?

Still hoping for RR's usually detailed responce


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:three:

Edited by camplo (05/10/08 04:48 PM)

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Offlinerev 766
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Re: Mycelium nutrient consolidation and dunking. When vs Where [Re: camplo]
    #8386136 - 05/10/08 05:03 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

well, that's cool man, i checked out the link, and also found this
"Stamets also explains the idea of consolidation in his books. It's not necessary with grains if you're going to be spawning to bulk or using for grain to grain transfers, but you do need to wait for full colonization. However, with pf cakes and other bulk substrates, it helps to wait some time after full colonization before initiating fruiting conditions. Doing so results in more prolific flushes. Failure to do so with some of the harder to grow edibles such as P nameko and Shiitake sometimes results in no flush at all.
RR"
i'm not trying to be a dick, i just wanted to make sure you realized that it said that. as for adding verm to your substrate, if you use a good bulk in a proper monotub or casing tray/FC, i don't think it's neccesary for water retention. it is, however, in most or all casing mix recipes for that purpose:thumbup:


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praise "Bob"
did you mean shmooed-R.I.P.

"drought besets the mind, decay besets the man"-me

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Offlinecamplo
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Re: Mycelium nutrient consolidation and dunking. When vs Where [Re: rev 766]
    #8387302 - 05/10/08 10:36 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I hear ya, I just want to use rye....thats all...and verm of course...


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:three:

Edited by camplo (05/10/08 10:36 PM)

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Offlinerev 766
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Re: Mycelium nutrient consolidation and dunking. When vs Where [Re: camplo]
    #8387325 - 05/10/08 10:41 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

oh, yeah, i think you can case rye directly, but i was just asking around about using verm as a straight casing layer the other day. the general consensus is that it works alot better mixed with peat & some lime to buffer ph. better moisture retention.


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praise "Bob"
did you mean shmooed-R.I.P.

"drought besets the mind, decay besets the man"-me

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Invisiblethedefone
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Re: Mycelium nutrient consolidation and dunking. When vs Where [Re: rev 766]
    #8387409 - 05/10/08 11:03 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I am spawning to or should I say "adding verm" for the what they call rez effect" around these parts.but im not going to add it until it comes out of the jars. So if spawning means to add "spawn" to another substance in order to get it to colonize it then yes Im spawning to verm.

regardless of what im spawning to (I know Ive seen you say dont dunk manure so skip that one)

When should one dunk? Before the nutrient consolidation, after. Should dunk before or after laying out, rye grain, In my case. Should or can I let the rye consolidate nutrients in there individual jars before laying our or after I lay them out in tray. your opinion is very much respected. Hope to get a detailed answer. thanks
camplo



Not only does this confuse me, it's confusing you as well. You need to master the basics before you start trying experimental techniques. Just take your rye grain and put it in a tray, then put your casing over that. DONE! Or, you can prepare a bulk substrate (which may, or may not contain verm) and evenly mix your grains into the bulk substrate. DONE! There is no need to dunk your grains before, or after either of these procedures.. after a few flushes.. maybe.


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Offlinebwoy
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Re: Mycelium nutrient consolidation and dunking. When vs Where [Re: thedefone]
    #8388196 - 05/11/08 06:16 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

explain to me how and why you decided to 'spawn to verm'

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Re: Mycelium nutrient consolidation and dunking. When vs Where [Re: bwoy]
    #8388244 - 05/11/08 06:50 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bwoy said:
explain to me how and why you decided to 'spawn to verm'




Yes,please do :strokebeard:

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Offlinecamplo
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Re: Mycelium nutrient consolidation and dunking. When vs Where [Re: Blutjager]
    #8400416 - 05/14/08 11:30 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

What part are you not understanding!? I posted the motherfuckin link, rreeeaaad it. Its called the rez effect.

I'm using grain as my main substrate

We all know what it is to dunk substrate

I posted a link about the basis of mycelium consolidation

In no wy m I confused about anything. Why am I being insulted by people who dont understand my question. Am I speaking to fast for ya boy?

My question is in regards to the order in which I should operate as far as mycelium consolidation and dunking. I could let the mycelium consolidate nutrients in the jars seperatly OR after laying out in the tray. I could dunk the rye while in the jar then lay out or layout the grains in the tray and then dunk. This is not envelope pushing practice people.

More than likely I will layout grain, let it sit 5-7 days after it has reached 100% a second time (first time being in the jar), Dunk, and then case.

I could do it in different order and WOULD if there any benefits to doing. I was asking for some advice and did not expect non advising responces from people who dont even know what the hell Im asking. What the fuck is going on here?


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:three:

Edited by camplo (05/18/08 06:24 PM)

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Offlineabica
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Re: Mycelium nutrient consolidation and dunking. When vs Where [Re: camplo]
    #8400483 - 05/14/08 11:53 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

rez effect example

I guess this is what you're talking about- verm holding water (a reservoir...hate trying to spell words with french etymology) and "spawning" your grain to it...which is not really "spawning" because it isn't going to colonize a "bulk" substrate...simply will send out some mycelium to suck up some water from the verm.

What's this nutrient consolidation thing?  According to RR:

Quote:


Consolidation is the part of the process where the mycelium has finished 'colonizing' the substrate, but has not had had time to digest enough of the food to be able to fruit readily. This is the reason for leaving brf in the jars for a week past full colonization. If you birth right away at full colonization, they won't fruit for a week anyway, so may as well leave them in the jars during that time so they're not drying out.




So it seems like your theory is that additional pre..."spawn" time spent by the grain sitting in the jar would allow the myc to consolidate nutes, then when mixing them with the "rez" they would be really really ready to fruit?

Maybe I just learned some principles, even if they don't apply directly to my project.  But anyway, proceed, gentlemen.  :wink:


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Edited by abica (05/14/08 11:55 AM)

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Offlinecamplo
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Re: Mycelium nutrient consolidation and dunking. When vs Where [Re: abica]
    #8464226 - 05/30/08 03:55 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Sure


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