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OfflineGinseng1
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George Green's Magnetic Motor - Free Energy?
    #8358872 - 05/03/08 09:51 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Watch the entire video first, then comment at your whim.

Free energy?

Can someone lay out the fundamentals as to why or why not this contraption has implications for free energy?



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Invisiblejohnm214M
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Re: George Green's Magnetic Motor - Free Energy? [Re: Ginseng1]
    #8358944 - 05/03/08 10:08 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

that makes no sense, why is the thing spinning?

THey don't explain anything, and it'd be nice to see that operate on glass with a clear view of what's around the spinning part, to rule out a magnent under the table.

Untill someone explains how energy can be created from nothing, all this stuff is silly, imo.


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: George Green's Magnetic Motor - Free Energy? [Re: johnm214]
    #8358968 - 05/03/08 10:13 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
that makes no sense, why is the thing spinning?





:laugh:


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Re: George Green's Magnetic Motor - Free Energy? [Re: johnm214]
    #8358974 - 05/03/08 10:14 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

where does he explain how this works, i.e. why the thing is spinning? And here's some fun stuff about the guy:

He talks about his special information about the history of earth:
Quote:

* How Earth began as a "prison planet" - a penal colony for the universe.
* Why the latest "Star Trek" movie parallels the aliens urgent message to Earth.
* An overview of how you can be part of the solution to the "happenings" on the planet.
* The 300 most powerful people who control every major decision on Earth.
* An incredible slide show of close-up pictures of several "beamships" and pictures of our space brothers/sisters (who live to be 1000 years old).
* The Plan 2000 (The PLAN TO BEGIN WWIII) and how that will act upon your lives. BIOLOGICAL WARFARE AND PROTECTION.
* The planned financial collapse and what you can do about it.

CREDENTIALS: A former investment banker (Registered Financial Principal with the N.A.S.D. and a Broker/Dealer. Securities Underwriter, Real Estate Developer, Insurance Broker and Publisher. A frequent guest on radio and TV talk shows. He is Publisher of "Handbook for the New Paradigm" written by the ET's. Each attendee will receive a complimentary copy. He is President of Global Insights, Inc. George Green has spoken to 1000s of people through his lectures and has appeared on numerous talk shows and TV shows telling his story.




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InvisibleDieCommie
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Re: George Green's Magnetic Motor - Free Energy? [Re: Ginseng1]
    #8358975 - 05/03/08 10:14 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Wrong forum.


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: George Green's Magnetic Motor - Free Energy? [Re: DieCommie]
    #8359003 - 05/03/08 10:21 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Why is this the wrong forum?

I am trying to understand what the video is showing. Don't concern yourself with Green. That's not what this video is about.

I believe the ring has magnets inside of it.

I think this has something to do with polarities -> motion -> energy.

Diecommie, can you give us any explanations as to whats going on with that object? You're a physicist are you not?

I need some honest clarification. I am trying to understand what I am seeing.


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Re: George Green's Magnetic Motor - Free Energy? [Re: DieCommie]
    #8359006 - 05/03/08 10:22 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

die commie, what do you think is going on here? under the table/in the drawer magnetic trickery? I notice they always start the "top" in the same place, and if it gets too far from that location it becomes unstable, which seems to suggest this.


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InvisibleDieCommie
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Re: George Green's Magnetic Motor - Free Energy? [Re: Ginseng1]
    #8359025 - 05/03/08 10:27 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

You're a physicist are you not?



I am not. I am however a physics student.

My guess is the hand moving the magnets from above is providing the energy. I cant say with any certainty though, the video is horrible as far as explaining goes. Could be a hidden motor. Could be a million things. But one thing it most certainly is not - free energy. The closest your going to get to free energy is charging your cell phone at work.


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: George Green's Magnetic Motor - Free Energy? [Re: johnm214]
    #8359027 - 05/03/08 10:27 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
die commie, what do you think is going on here? under the table/in the drawer magnetic trickery? I notice they always start the "top" in the same place, and if it gets too far from that location it becomes unstable, which seems to suggest this.




I highly doubt this.

Project Camelot are not hoaxers. They are honest people in the pursuit of truth as so many of us are. They wouldn't allow that kind of nonsense.


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: George Green's Magnetic Motor - Free Energy? [Re: Ginseng1]
    #8359036 - 05/03/08 10:31 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Ok.

Now let's say, hypothetically, the hand is not proving the energy, the spinning object were somehow help in place so it didn't spin away from the ring, and there was no motor or any trickery. What could this imply?


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InvisibleDieCommie
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Re: George Green's Magnetic Motor - Free Energy? [Re: Ginseng1]
    #8359065 - 05/03/08 10:39 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

What could this imply?


Absolutely nothing. Hypotheticals imply nothing. They are, by definition, hypothetical.


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Re: George Green's Magnetic Motor - Free Energy? [Re: Ginseng1]
    #8359096 - 05/03/08 10:46 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:

My guess is the hand moving the magnets from above is providing the energy. I cant say with any certainty though, the video is horrible as far as explaining goes. Could be a hidden motor. Could be a million things. But one thing it most certainly is not - free energy. The closest your going to get to free energy is charging your cell phone at work.





see, but how is the hand providing torque? I don't get it

If there was something underneath the table, it would be realativly large though, cuz in one shot the 'top' moves about six inches from the spot it started before the rotation decays. Would just a spinning speaker magnet provide enough size and such for this? I think it might. It also sounds like there is some background noise, though it could be nothing- listen during the speaking, and the same noise is present during the movement of the 'top'


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: George Green's Magnetic Motor - Free Energy? [Re: DieCommie]
    #8359099 - 05/03/08 10:47 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Ok, if this universe only existed hypothetically, and you consider what I mentioned previously, what could the hypothetical implications mean in this imaginary hypothetical world?

Or is this just not something we can get into?


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InvisibleDieCommie
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Re: George Green's Magnetic Motor - Free Energy? [Re: Ginseng1]
    #8359177 - 05/03/08 11:18 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

see, but how is the hand providing torque? I don't get it



My guess - He is obviously moving the ring and thus pulling the small rotor with it. The action of pulling the rotor causes it to spin. You can see it real well the second time he does it. It doesnt do anything, then he tilts the magneitc ring and moves it.

Magnets are probably the most commonly used things people try to make free energy out of. Thats because magnets are one of the least understood things by most people. However, scientists and engineers understand their behavior at the macroscopic level very well. All behavior ever exhibited by them fits the equations that make up E&M theory. Thus it has been proven, mathematically, that no permanent magnet can generate power no matter how you arrange it. In fact, magnetic fields can do no work!! They can not move an object with a force over a distance. Thats a hard one to intuitively get, but the thing that moves stuff with magnets is the electric field.


Quote:

Ok, if this universe only existed hypothetically, and you consider what I mentioned previously, what could the hypothetical implications mean in this imaginary hypothetical world?


Jesus christ dude. With three hypotheticals and an imaginary world I think you can draw any implication you want. And Im sure you will.

Seriously, perpetual motion stuff is better suited to the mystery forum (imo).


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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: George Green's Magnetic Motor - Free Energy? [Re: Ginseng1]
    #8359290 - 05/03/08 11:52 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

"Free" energy. The Holy Grail of physics. Also the fools quest.

Magnets are fun though. I have a magnetic levitator that provides a lot of amusement. Not one of those spinning tops that levitates, but a combination of neodymium magnets and pyrolytic graphite. Kinda cool to see a magnet just hang there in space slowly twisting back and forth.


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Re: George Green's Magnetic Motor - Free Energy? [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #8359823 - 05/04/08 01:50 AM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

In fact, magnetic fields can do no work!!




iron filing pulled by magnent= work, right

you mean it can't continually do work? Like the work to move the filing back to where it was originaly is greater than the work that the magnet does on the filing?


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: George Green's Magnetic Motor - Free Energy? [Re: johnm214]
    #8359900 - 05/04/08 02:18 AM (6 years, 4 months ago)

> why is the thing spinning?

It is a clever illusion, but nothing magical and it is not free power.

He builds a ring of magnets with one magnet missing. This creates an "overbalanced wheel", but with magnets rather than gravity being the driving force. Because he is holding the magnetic ring, small movements of his hand as he tries to hold the ring steady translate force from the ring to the spinning bit. Because the ring is "over balanced", once the system gets going it takes very little to keep it going. If he put a load on the spinning bit, we would find that the power produced is equal to what is generated by his slight hand movements. (The hand movements are an artifact of trying to hold the ring steady, not something done consciously or intentionally.)


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InvisibleDieCommie
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Re: George Green's Magnetic Motor - Free Energy? [Re: johnm214]
    #8359947 - 05/04/08 02:43 AM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:iron filing pulled by magnent= work, right

you mean it can't continually do work?  Like the work to move the filing back to where it was originaly is greater than the work that the magnet does on the filing?




A magnetic field cannot do work at all end of story.  Well, obviously there is some catch because as you mention iron bieng pulled my a magnet is work.


You know cross product and dot product right?  The force exerted by a magnetic field is F = q(v x B), its a cross product.  So the force exerted by a magnetic field is always perpendicular to the velocity of the particle.  Now work is W = F 'dot' d, a dot product.  So work is only done if there is a component of the force parallel to the distance traveled.  But from the magnetic force, the force is completely perpendicular to the distance traveled!  Hence no work is done.

A year or so ago I went to many professors and grad students asking them to explain how a permanent magnet can do work.  Its amazing, but PhD professors and grad students all gave me contradictory and ambiguous reasons.  A common explanation is that the person does the work by moving the magnet, but that is obviously not the case.  Basically in the end I gather its something like this.. the magnetic field cannot do work on a particle but can rotate it so that the electric field can do the work.  Honestly I am still not satisfied and hope to understand it better sometime in the future.  It would be cool if somebody could chime in and explain it better.  :thumbup:


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: George Green's Magnetic Motor - Free Energy? [Re: DieCommie]
    #8359975 - 05/04/08 02:58 AM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
A common explanation is that the person does the work by moving the magnet, but that is obviously not the case.




How is this obviously not the case?

Seuss explained it very well above.

Why do you think this thingy doesn't work when mounted in a casing, why do you think there has the be someone that is holding the ring in the hand?


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: George Green's Magnetic Motor - Free Energy? [Re: DieCommie]
    #8359986 - 05/04/08 03:05 AM (6 years, 4 months ago)

> the magnetic field cannot do work on a particle but can rotate it

How is rotation (angular displacement) achieved without work being done?


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