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Complex
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Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared.
#8315437 - 04/22/08 06:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hey everyone. My flatmate and me have been experimenting with these salvia leaves since they came. We came across http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=24597 and want to give it a try because it tastes ghastly and haven't had a tremendous amount of luck smoking these leaves (replaced bowl every hit for 3 lungfulls and barely felt anything compared to the chewing experience). Anyways, where I'm at its legal to sell to 190 proof everclear and for some stupid reason they dont carry the 151 proof he recommends in the guide. Since I am not old enough to purchase alcohol anyways, we decided to go with Plan B the rubbing alcohol. Thing is everyone tells us its toxic and how it was a bad idea cause its going to be on the blotters when they are finished. Granted we are diluting it with nearly 900mL of water then popping the filter in the oven for a minute or two. Still im totally nervous and scared now that when we drop the blotters im gonna get like oral toxicity from the alcohol and bad news is gonna go down. Can anyone shed some light on the possible safety or not so safe of our decision? Thanks!
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sleepy
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8315454 - 04/22/08 06:03 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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horrible idea. i'd be scared too. just chew a big quid and smoke 10 salvia joints in a row you'll be set.
homeless ppl will buy you alcohol if they don't steal your money first
Edited by sleepy (04/22/08 06:07 PM)
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Complex
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: sleepy]
#8315474 - 04/22/08 06:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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ugh thought so. I wonder why he suggested in the guide then?
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TheShroomJew23
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: sleepy]
#8315499 - 04/22/08 06:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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The solvent will completely evaporate while its drying in the oven, This is sorta how i make bud blotters so dont be worried about killing yourself cause you be fine, just make sure you dont smell any sovlent on the final blotters
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Gumby
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8315503 - 04/22/08 06:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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If it's pure isopropyl alcohol, it will evaporate 100%. A quick test you can do is pour some on clean glass and see if it leaves a residue when it dries.
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Complex
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Gumby]
#8315510 - 04/22/08 06:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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thats was my argument, not only that but wouldnt the small time in the oven cause it to burn out to?
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Gumby
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8315515 - 04/22/08 06:16 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Burning, by your definition, and evaporating are the same thing. If you try to "burn off" the IPA in a gas oven you may be looking at an explosion. Only use an electric stove with the windows open. Out doors is even better.
Edit: same case with everclear... both IPA and ethanol can become explosive in vapor form.
Edited by Gumby (04/22/08 06:17 PM)
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sleepy
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8315518 - 04/22/08 06:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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eh, isn't rubbing alcohol made in order to put on cuts to kill germs? its not meant for ingestion, therefore they dont have to follow any type of purity standards, there could be anything in it.
can't he use naptha or whatnot?
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Gumby
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: sleepy]
#8315524 - 04/22/08 06:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Crappy quality naptha can have even more impurities that IPA, in my experience.
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Stizzle
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: sleepy]
#8315525 - 04/22/08 06:19 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Naphtha isn't meant for consumption either
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Complex
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: sleepy]
#8315531 - 04/22/08 06:20 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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an explosion you say? It'll be in there for 2 mins at about 300 degrees after 10 hours of sitting and then diluting the 100mL of IPA with just water then poured through a tea strainer into the coffee filter. The last thing i wanna do is blow up the place, sounds safe?
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sleepy
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Stizzle]
#8315629 - 04/22/08 06:42 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stizzle said: Naphtha isn't meant for consumption either
i didn't think of that Iso-alcohol has poisons specifically added to prevent consumption though. do those evaporate?
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sleepy
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8315638 - 04/22/08 06:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Complex said: an explosion you say? It'll be in there for 2 mins at about 300 degrees after 10 hours of sitting and then diluting the 100mL of IPA with just water then poured through a tea strainer into the coffee filter. The last thing i wanna do is blow up the place, sounds safe?
it doesn't matter how long its been sitting. it matters how much alcohol fumes build up and if a spark ignites it.
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sleepy
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8315671 - 04/22/08 06:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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you can eliminate the risk of explosion by doing a cold evaporation, just put it in a wide mouth jar and put a fan right next to it on high speed
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Complex
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: sleepy]
#8315782 - 04/22/08 07:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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So while im letting the solution sit, should I open the jar its in or keep it closed, if the alcohol is evaporating and the jar is closed, wouldnt it just condense on the sides?
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sleepy
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8315852 - 04/22/08 07:19 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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it doesnt effect the chemical reaction whether you cover it or not, although i would reccomend to cover it, i dunno why though.
after its done mixing the fan will evaporate it right quick
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Complex
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8315903 - 04/22/08 07:31 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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how long do you recommend i sit it by the fan?
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sleepy
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8315941 - 04/22/08 07:40 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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depends on how much liquid is in there and how wide the mouth is and how well the air is getting exchanged, but i'd say 5.45 hours.
just set it up before you go to bed and see how it is in the morning.
Edited by sleepy (04/22/08 07:45 PM)
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Complex
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: sleepy]
#8316020 - 04/22/08 07:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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ugh that seems like a long time compared to 2 mins in the oven, which is electric i discovered.
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sleepy
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8316062 - 04/22/08 08:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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its your life
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Complex
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: sleepy]
#8316088 - 04/22/08 08:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Bandersnatch
Frumious
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Gumby]
#8316119 - 04/22/08 08:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gumby said: If it's pure isopropyl alcohol, it will evaporate 100%. A quick test you can do is pour some on clean glass and see if it leaves a residue when it dries.
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Complex
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: sleepy]
#8316297 - 04/22/08 08:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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ok just purchased 99% isopropyl alcohol, the guide recommends 70% is this going to make a huge difference?
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Edited by Complex (04/22/08 08:45 PM)
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Bandersnatch
Frumious
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8316381 - 04/22/08 08:56 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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You'll just get a better extraction. 1% water as opposed to 30% water.
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Complex
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Bandersnatch]
#8316427 - 04/22/08 09:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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ok cool, bandersnatch you seem to know what youre talking about, do you think itd be safe to oven the filter paper after the process? electric oven, 2 mins on 300 degrees
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Bandersnatch
Frumious
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8316613 - 04/22/08 09:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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An electric oven almost definitely isn't going to cause a fire with that. If you're worried about it, use a hair dryer or the heating pad from a coffee pot.
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Gumby
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8317993 - 04/23/08 08:51 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah you should be fine. Most paper burns at around 450ºF and the auto ignition point of IPA is 750ºF. Just keep in mind it will be going to vapor form (gas form) when it evaporates, if you smoke, don't do it in the same room as the oven when the stuff is evaporating. Don't play with any sources of sparks either.
This is all just to be safe. I've made hash oil with IPA. I actually set up the beaker on a ring stand a good distance away from the burner. I used an alcohol burner to evaporate it... But this was outside in a home made fume hood. I didn't have any problems other than the stuff being so damn sticky.
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amanitavirosa
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: sleepy]
#8318002 - 04/23/08 08:57 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Evaporating any flammable liquid down directly by a hot-plate, oven, etc is pretty stupid since you can achieve the same effect by putting the container in boiling water instead.
Have you considered just using the 190-proof instead? Far less likely to kill you or case blindness if you are too dumb to fully evaporate the other forms of alcohol.
-------------------- -AV-
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Gavn
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: sleepy]
#8318027 - 04/23/08 09:05 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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even though it is friggen disgusting, i know people who have had shots of rubbing alcohol.. lets just say they werent pleased and it looked quite painful haha. buuut, i see nothing wrong with that erowid method, granted it might taste a bit spicy and hot, i dont see how u could get toxic poisoning as it is rubbed onto the skin? im gonna do it thats for sure =D
i hate smoking salvia it doesnt do a thing to me.
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Complex
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Gavn]
#8318248 - 04/23/08 10:52 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ok well the concoction is in its second hour of life. As stated above I used 99% isopropyl alcohol instead of the guide's 70%. Someone said this is going to make a better extraction, can I get a second opinion?
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Gumby
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8318259 - 04/23/08 10:55 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Completely true. Stronger concentration of alcohol = more efficent and more concentrated extract. I wish I could find 99% IPA around me.
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Complex
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Gumby]
#8318311 - 04/23/08 11:14 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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ok cool. well as all my paranoid thoughts are finally being laid to rest i just want to thank all of you for your input. Last, I read a tek on how to make extractions and it mentioned that the bottle had to be glass. I am using a a like Rubbermaid or whatever 1 liter bottle is this okay?
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Gumby
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8318328 - 04/23/08 11:20 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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They probably said that because solvents will dissolve some plastics. I highly doubt that 99% IPA is capable of solvating plastics. If you were using xylene, then you might need to worry.
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Complex
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: sleepy]
#8318350 - 04/23/08 11:27 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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ok whew, again i just wanted to say thanks to all you guys for your help.
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trendal
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Gumby]
#8318401 - 04/23/08 11:39 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gumby said: I wish I could find 99% IPA around me.
Wow, you can't? All the drug stores here carry 99% IPA. In fact, I was just over there buying some today, and noted that they have three kinds of rubbing alcohol to choose from: 99% IPA, 70% IPA, and 95% ethanol (denatured).
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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circularvortex
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8318429 - 04/23/08 11:45 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Isopropyl alcohol can make you go blind if you injest too much of it, and there are some other nasty side effects as well.
As long as you are sure that it has all evaporated, though, you will be fine.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, federal, or fashion police laws. All posts are works of fiction. For well you know that its a fool who plays it cool By making his world a little colder. Under closer inspection I realised it was a funky ball of tits from outer space.
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Gumby
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: trendal]
#8318683 - 04/23/08 12:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Nope, I can only find 70% and 91%. 91% only comes in small bottles too.
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Complex
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Gumby]
#8318764 - 04/23/08 01:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I thought rubbing alcohol that contained methyl was the blindness causing one? Anyways, is there anyway I can tell if the alcohol is fully evaporated?
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Stizzle
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8318770 - 04/23/08 01:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Smell test
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Complex
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Stizzle]
#8318855 - 04/23/08 01:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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would this be before i add the water or just in general after i dry it?
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Bandersnatch
Frumious
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8318894 - 04/23/08 01:56 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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If you can still smell alcohol after it's completely dry, you've got a problem.
Alcohol is volatile and evaporates very easily.
You should have no problem evaporating it all out, especially if it's 99%
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Seuss
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: sleepy]
#8318909 - 04/23/08 01:59 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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> Iso-alcohol has poisons specifically added to prevent consumption though. do those evaporate?
Close ... iso-alcohol is a poison. The liver turns it into acetone. The fumes are also heavier than air, meaning they will sink to the floor, and they are highly flammable.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Fnord
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: sleepy]
#8318974 - 04/23/08 02:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
i didn't think of that Iso-alcohol has poisons specifically added to prevent consumption though. do those evaporate?
There are no added "posions" in IPA,You are 100% safe using this on blotter. IPA is only twice as toxic as ethanol,so even if you didint evap it all the way a tiny drop on blotter shouldent hurt you.
Evap in the oven with the door open a crack,this is how thousands of people have done things like this in the past.
-------------------- Blessed are they that run around in circles, for they shall be known as wheels.
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Bandersnatch
Frumious
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Fnord]
#8318983 - 04/23/08 02:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Turning on the stove vent fan would also help remove some of the fumes.
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Complex
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Fnord]
#8318984 - 04/23/08 02:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ok awesome, i know ive said it like twice already but i really appreciate everyones input on this, its really put my mind to rest.
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Gumby
Fishnologist
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8319121 - 04/23/08 02:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Complex said: I thought rubbing alcohol that contained methyl was the blindness causing one? Anyways, is there anyway I can tell if the alcohol is fully evaporated?
The one with the methyl group that will make you go blind is methanol, another great solvent, but a little more toxic.
Technically, though, isopropyl alcohol is methanol with 2 methyl groups attached to it. I think that's right, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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Bandersnatch
Frumious
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Gumby]
#8319175 - 04/23/08 03:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Isopropyl alcohol is produced by combining water and propylene.[3] There are two processes for achieving this: indirect hydration via the sulfuric acid process and direct hydration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol
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trendal
J♠
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Bandersnatch]
#8319235 - 04/23/08 03:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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That tells you how it is made...not what it's made of
Isopropanol is, in fact, just a methanol with a methyl group added to it.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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trendal
J♠
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Gumby]
#8319271 - 04/23/08 03:19 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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The difference between the two is in their metabolism once in the body...with isopropanol being metabolized into acetone and methanol being metabolized into formaldehyde (primarily...).
It's the formaldehyde that does the real damage, like causing blindness.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Bandersnatch
Frumious
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Bandersnatch]
#8319326 - 04/23/08 03:31 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Complex
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: sleepy]
#8320069 - 04/23/08 06:11 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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ok well the solution is almost done sitting. Hypothetically speaking say not all of this IPA evaporated and I ingest one of the blotters (its been diluted with 900mL of water, strained onto the coffee filter, and dried in the oven on 300 degrees), what should my sitter be looking for as far as if I'm actually poisoned or how long should I be symptom free to consider myself in the clear?
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Bandersnatch
Frumious
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8320111 - 04/23/08 06:20 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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The amount of alcohol even if it were present would be completely negligible.
I've gotten isopropyl alcohol in my mouth before while cleaning piercings with no effect at all.
I'd imagine you would have to take a somewhat significant amount to have a negative reaction to it.
I really think there is nothing for you to worry about. If the blotter is dry and does not smell of alcohol there should not be any amount, significant or not, to worry about.
You would not be ingesting more than you would normally absorb through the skin when applied externally.
It is "rubbing alcohol" after all.
Have a good trip and do not worry.
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Complex
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Bandersnatch]
#8320138 - 04/23/08 06:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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ahh awesome thanks, good karma to all of you.
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Fnord
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8320141 - 04/23/08 06:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Like i said a drop or two or 3 or 12 shouldent hurt you but heres the symptoms for oral posioning i think im remembering them all but its been a while since ive read about this stuff for oral posioning look for the normal acetone symptoms things like Nausea. Abdominal pain. Unconsciousness. Laboured breathing. Vomiting. For inhaltion during evaperation look for Cough. Drowsiness. Dizziness. Sore throat. Headache.
But as i said IPA is about twice as toxic as drinking alcohol,unless your eating a soaking wet chunk of paper youll be all set.
-------------------- Blessed are they that run around in circles, for they shall be known as wheels.
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Complex
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Fnord]
#8321185 - 04/23/08 10:02 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well,the blotters are done. We made 5 strips and it doesnt smell a thing like IPA:). Im not 100% what these things are supposed to look like and the 'crystals' we're supposed to have are the stereotypical crystals i think of, they are like dark green, almost blackish. So I guess only a test will see if this worked.
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Bandersnatch
Frumious
Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 768
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Re: Rubbing Alcohol? I'm scared. [Re: Complex]
#8321535 - 04/23/08 11:20 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Good luck.
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