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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Ego Death
#8192841 - 03/25/08 06:12 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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RP: You didn't experience ego death? Then you didn't trip deeply enough and with the proper mindset!
OC: Um, your experience is the touchstone by which all other experiences should be measured?
This is what I mostly hear with a few exceptions.
First the boasting about one's own ego death as a grand accomplishment, then the erroneous mind-reading about the nature of another's experience and finally the smug level of superiority and judgement.
Yup. Sounds like the ego was put in its place.
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MushmanTheManic
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When your ego dies, it roams the Earth in search of a new physical host. It makes its home in many different beings until it finally returns back into its true home. This is why I can read your mind and know that you're wrong and need to eat a lot more mushrooms, dude. I've been in your brain and seen the large tapestries of Anna Kournikova hung on the walls of your skull and listened to the horrifically sanguine sound of easy listening jazz. Oh the horrors!
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
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I see your point but drug induced ego-transcendence is obviously not permanent, unfortunately.
"Ego-death" is a misnomer. The Ego can't die because it doesn't really exist in the first place.
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dirtworshipper
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Are you saying that if you eat enough mushrooms that you won't forget your ego for a while?
I think that if anyone eats enough mushrooms, they will certainly experience "ego-death"
I don't see it as such a grand accomplishment to lose your ego whilst on psychedelics. Nor to be able to handle it. That is what is supposed to happen.
Only the "ego" sees losing the "ego" as an accomplishment. Paradoxical, huh?
-------------------- “You've got as many lives as you like, and more, even ones you don't want.” - George Harrison
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Good points.
Alan Watts said something like "Loosing one's ego is the biggest ego trip going."
Gurdjieff said something like "We each have MANY egos each of who think they are the only one."
I think mysticism is about balancing and combining our fractionated sense of self into One permanent identity, this is 'soul-building'.
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backfromthedead
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'Yup. Sounds like the ego was put in its place. '
Directly confronting the impermenence of the observer gives you a smirk face.
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publicenemy1
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Some people don't learn but just relish that they have accomplished something making their ego that much bigger. People do things for accomplishments nowadays and not substance. It's about the paper not what your learned getting that paper for some people.
-------------------- BE HERE NOW
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Sophistic Radiance
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Ego death is a silly term. Ego loss is more accurate. That still doesn't mean it's a sufficiently accurate term.
I've been tripping for over two years and I more or less dismissed the idea of ego loss as a silly "holy grail" type term used by enthusiastic trippers to lazily describe the decentralized thoughts that tend to come with psychedelics. After finally seeing what they were talking about, I still think the term is silly. I mean, what exactly is the ego? The ego is an abstract concept used to describe abstract ideas, and the direct effect of any drug on the CNS is not abstract.
It does seem like a good benchmark for describing a very specific type of experience, but it's too easy to misunderstand, too subjective, and a bit exaggerated.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (03/25/08 11:38 PM)
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backfromthedead
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"There is nothing vague about the ego and the nature of its cessation; it's very simple and concrete compared to a truly hard problem such as the nature consciousness. The first question, the key question, the only question, is: "What is the *nature of* the ego such that we can talk of it 'dying'?"
The ego is the core framework around which the egoic mental worldmodel is constructed. The ego exists as a structure and a structuring principle or organizing scheme. The mind can hold an egoic or a transcendent worldmodel. Egoic structures are present in both, but *organized differently*.
In the egoic worldmodel, the ego is considered to be a first cause, a sovereign control agent, and the simple, unproblematic center of identity, the main referent of the word "I". The ego is considered to be the initiator of action, the controller of one's will, and the creator of one's thoughts and actions.
Ego death is an apocalyptic, catestrophic global shift and reinterpretation of a huge *network* of mental constructs.
"Ego" can mean both the central component in the egoic worldmodel, and the entire worldmodel (the egoic-structured mental model of the world, time, and control) -- we can simply call these "the core ego" and "the overall egoic worldmodel". What dies is the firm assumption that ego is substantial and wields power in the way the egoic worldmodel proposes. That way of thinking still remains after ego death, but only as a practical conventional illusion."
www.egodeath.com
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Edited by backfromthedead (03/26/08 06:45 PM)
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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I think when you completely lose your ego its the scariest thing that will ever happen to you!
Ive had ego loss and when its pleasurable, its not ego loss, its just having a thin veil of ego left.
When you eat a large does 9+grams of good cubes, there's the possibility you will experience full ego death, you don't know who you are, what your name is, you cant feel anything, not one emotion can be experienced, you feel dead, as there is no "you" to feel anything, it doesn't feel like freedom, it feels like nothing. When it happened to me i went through hell to regain my ego, it scared the crap out of me!
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backfromthedead
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Re: Ego Death [Re: Chronic7]
#8196164 - 03/26/08 11:37 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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For me all it took was 20 large fresh Azures. Skipped the come up. Fell out of my previous world view. Ego death. Felt like a schizophrenic break. Probably shouldn't have chased that with all my effort.
And fuck yes. Now I have all the answers.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Quote:
Tchan909 said: Ego death is a silly term. Ego loss is more accurate.
distachment from identification to ego works well for me.
there are levels to which one can experience this state, some tend to believe that it is the end of the road. but it is not, space is huge and our experience of it is endless. so using a word such as ego death is many times misleading. when everything is forgotten it is safe to assume identification to the story is somewhat dead.
'I don't know who I am, I don't know what my name is'
I've seen somebody take 12 hits of very potent acid and not reach this state, whereas it only took me 1 and a few tokes of pot. some are hard heads, some aren't.
Edited by SyntheticMInd (03/26/08 02:22 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: When your ego dies, it roams the Earth in search of a new physical host. It makes its home in many different beings until it finally returns back into its true home. This is why I can read your mind and know that you're wrong and need to eat a lot more mushrooms, dude. I've been in your brain and seen the large tapestries of Anna Kournikova hung on the walls of your skull and listened to the horrifically sanguine sound of easy listening jazz. Oh the horrors!
Mush is on a roll.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Mr_Spliff
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Re: Ego Death [Re: deranger]
#8196764 - 03/26/08 02:21 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Yeah, when I used to first trip shrooms it was like an obstical course. I would take handfulls of shrooms I would grow and I would have this intent of " I'll make it, Im smart, I can hold myself together." I would litteraly fight against the shrooms. Its a like hard to explain but I was being a stubburn, hard head, and triping was this Badge I could wear and show it off, see Im a hippy, I can manage.
Then I finally got into drying and weighing my shrooms and notices that a eighth was a lot less than what I was used to doing. Yet when I would weigh them out, there was a respect for the shroom, and off an eighth I would meditate and then BOOM, then I was back scrabling to figure out what just happened.
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Sophistic Radiance
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When I started tripping I made a point of proving it to myself and others that I could "keep my shit together" even under the influence of powerful psychedelics. While this is a useful skill, I've found it works against the most awe-inspiring and interesting aspects of tripping, and sometimes it's good to let yourself just completely lose your shit.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (03/26/08 02:25 PM)
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Letting go is where its at, attachment=suffering.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Quote:
Tchan909 said: When I started tripping I made a point of proving it to myself and others that I could "keep my shit together" even under the influence of powerful psychedelics. While this is a useful skill, I've found it works against the most awe-inspiring and interesting aspects of tripping, and sometimes it's good to let yourself just completely lose your shit.
here here
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Mr_Spliff
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Re: Ego Death [Re: Chronic7]
#8196833 - 03/26/08 02:33 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Right on cronic, I know what you mean about acceptance, and reading peoples 'Vibs' is the word I think gets across good. I don't think Vibs are super natural, and I don't believe in auras.
I believe our body is the "aura" or image of our soul or what ever, so just to look at someone is enough, if in tune.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
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Auras are just the scratch on the surface of our energy field imo, there is no part of the universe that is not connected to you somehow or someway.
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Sophistic Radiance
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Re: Ego Death [Re: Chronic7]
#8198058 - 03/26/08 06:36 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
backfromthedead said: There is nothing vague about the ego and the nature of its cessation
I never said it was vague, it's just abstract. "The ego" as we refer to it is not a part of the brain, it's just a framework of observation that arises in functioning humans. It's an abstract concept that was created (by a few humans) to give framework to certain discussions about cognitive functions.
Likewise, there's nothing vague about an intense psychedelic experience, but it's a dead-end oversimplification to sum it up as "ego-loss."
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (03/26/08 06:37 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Ego Death [Re: Chronic7]
#8198072 - 03/26/08 06:39 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Aura = delusional
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backfromthedead
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Might you have a better term for the experience??
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Sophistic Radiance
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I just try to describe the experience. It's really hard, actually. I have to stop myself from using the phrase "ego death" sometimes.
Like I said, it seems like a good benchmark, I just think it's also the cause of a LOT of miscommunication and oversimplification. I also don't want to just chalk my trip up as "that one time my ego died" because there was a lot more to it than that.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (03/26/08 07:05 PM)
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Lion
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Quote:
a lot more to it than that.
Like what?
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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MindGorilla
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when you die you are then born
i now understand being reborn, because you truly can be.
thats ego death.
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