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Offlinecosmoline
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Corona discharge ozone sterilization
    #7637147 - 11/14/07 09:55 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

In my glovebox and work room I will be running a 15,000v ozone generator. It will have pretty much 100% ozone saturation in 30 minutes in the room and about 2 in the glovebox. Are there any dangers with these high ozone levels? I know it can precipitate into nitric acid with a lot of humidity but I don't think such small amounts would hurt anything. What about running ozone outside of my grow chamber? A little more risky due to the proximity of the mushrooms to the possible nitric acid producing combonation? What do you guys think?


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Invisiblepoboy
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Re: Corona discharge ozone sterilization [Re: cosmoline]
    #7637416 - 11/14/07 11:04 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

It will hurt your lungs.Fo sure


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Offlinecosmoline
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Re: Corona discharge ozone sterilization [Re: poboy]
    #7638062 - 11/15/07 02:57 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

instant gratification over long term survival is a natrual human instinct. My lungs will be fine. Does anyone on here want to comment on the potential effect of mycelium exposure to high levels of ozone? What about very small amounts of nitric acid running down the walls of the chamber (not into casings)?


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Corona discharge ozone sterilization [Re: cosmoline]
    #7638327 - 11/15/07 05:57 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Offlinecosmoline
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Re: Corona discharge ozone sterilization [Re: fastfred]
    #7640284 - 11/15/07 05:15 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

I'm new here. What does "popcorn" imply? I'm going to go ahead and use the setup in my glovebox. If anyone wants pictures/tutorials just yell. peace.


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Offlinemilkman
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Re: Corona discharge ozone sterilization [Re: cosmoline]
    #7640877 - 11/15/07 07:38 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

i think he means hes gonna sit back and enjoy the show but yea whered you get the ozone generator i thought they where good for you like they make the room smell similar to it does prior to a rainstorm
http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html
bad for you o3 is


Edited by milkman (11/15/07 07:55 PM)


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Offlinecosmoline
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Re: Corona discharge ozone sterilization [Re: milkman]
    #7641515 - 11/15/07 09:42 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Oh ok. Having an ozone generator running in your house constantly is no doubt bad for your health, I plan on running it to sterilize my glovebox. The ozone generator is similar to the ones people make for big pot grows. It uses a 15,000v neon sign transformer and a few other simple components. Will let you guys know how it goes.


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Re: Corona discharge ozone sterilization [Re: cosmoline]
    #7642456 - 11/16/07 01:52 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

you hardly need a glove box for day to day things. Only using it for those long nights with your little friends under the box is probly best.


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InvisibleJaComet
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Re: Corona discharge ozone sterilization [Re: rodfarva]
    #7643006 - 11/16/07 07:16 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Greetings Friends and Neighbors,

Ya’all made me log in for this one. I’m an Ozone and Peroxide advocate for decades and have a fair amount of experience in the area. I use high concentrations of "O3" in my clean room and general home environment.

To be brief, coronal discharge (CD) O3 gens. are inherently problematic. They don’t function reliably and do make Nitric Acid from ambient humidity. Not good. O3 has a bad “Official” reputation in the USA even though many applications are standard in much of the rest of the world, up to and including O3 infusion for blood re-circulation in cancer and aids patients. Study in the negative “Danger -Danger -Run Away” reports most often finds them using CD O3 gens in open air for their test sources, rather than newer technologies.

These days many types of so called Ozone gens. actually create very little O3, but rather one or more groupings of hydro peroxides from the ambient humidity, super oxide ions, negative ions and ozonide ions. Altogether different compounds from O3.

The following overview of CD gens. from :

http://www.inspiredliving.com/airpurification/airpurifier-comparisons.htm

>
Corona Discharge Ozone Systems

Corona Discharge systems simulate lightning with a corona electric arc or spark. Strong ozone is produced by converting the oxygen (O2) to ozone (O3).

Pros: Low cost. Ozone effective on odors, bacteria, mold and some VOC’s.

Cons: Air is 80% Nitrogen and 20% Oxygen. These units convert Oxygen to Ozone. They can also convert the Nitrogen to airborne Nitric Acid and Nitric Oxide, which can act as an lung irritant and results in a pungent "metallic" or "bleach-like" odor and causes maintenance problems due to corrosion. They can also generate electromagnetic radiation.

They produce high concentrations and levels of ozone -- erratic, unpredictable production; ozone "blasts" are common -- usually over Federal safe limits. These systems typically will require expensive monitors to control ozone levels. Also, arcing (sparking) can be a noise and safety problem. Note: Corona Discharge Ozone Units should never be used for air purification in occupied areas, as they will usually exceed Federal safety limits of ozone.

Higher more complicated maintenance is required to replace the fragile plates, and there is a higher incidence of product or component failure.
>

I could go on, but here is another site for some up to date O3 info.

http://www.ozoneapplications.com/ozoneinfo.htm


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Offlinecosmoline
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Re: Corona discharge ozone sterilization [Re: JaComet]
    #7643948 - 11/16/07 02:18 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

JaComet said:
Greetings Friends and Neighbors,

Ya’all made me log in for this one. I’m an Ozone and Peroxide advocate for decades and have a fair amount of experience in the area. I use high concentrations of "O3" in my clean room and general home environment.

To be brief, coronal discharge (CD) O3 gens. are inherently problematic. They don’t function reliably and do make Nitric Acid from ambient humidity. Not good. O3 has a bad “Official” reputation in the USA even though many applications are standard in much of the rest of the world, up to and including O3 infusion for blood re-circulation in cancer and aids patients. Study in the negative “Danger -Danger -Run Away” reports most often finds them using CD O3 gens in open air for their test sources, rather than newer technologies.

These days many types of so called Ozone gens. actually create very little O3, but rather one or more groupings of hydro peroxides from the ambient humidity, super oxide ions, negative ions and ozonide ions. Altogether different compounds from O3.

The following overview of CD gens. from :

http://www.inspiredliving.com/airpurification/airpurifier-comparisons.htm

>
Corona Discharge Ozone Systems

Corona Discharge systems simulate lightning with a corona electric arc or spark. Strong ozone is produced by converting the oxygen (O2) to ozone (O3).

Pros: Low cost. Ozone effective on odors, bacteria, mold and some VOC’s.

Cons: Air is 80% Nitrogen and 20% Oxygen. These units convert Oxygen to Ozone. They can also convert the Nitrogen to airborne Nitric Acid and Nitric Oxide, which can act as an lung irritant and results in a pungent "metallic" or "bleach-like" odor and causes maintenance problems due to corrosion. They can also generate electromagnetic radiation.

They produce high concentrations and levels of ozone -- erratic, unpredictable production; ozone "blasts" are common -- usually over Federal safe limits. These systems typically will require expensive monitors to control ozone levels. Also, arcing (sparking) can be a noise and safety problem. Note: Corona Discharge Ozone Units should never be used for air purification in occupied areas, as they will usually exceed Federal safety limits of ozone.

Higher more complicated maintenance is required to replace the fragile plates, and there is a higher incidence of product or component failure.
>

I could go on, but here is another site for some up to date O3 info.

http://www.ozoneapplications.com/ozoneinfo.htm




JaComet: You seem to know what you are talking about. Im sure you know that you can minimize the nitric acid/nitrous oxide production by first running the air through a dehumidifier then piping the air from the corona unit to a bubbler set-up. The small amounts of nitric acid will dissolve in the water. I have even heard of this water (which contians high levels of ozone) used as an effective method of sterilization. I would bust out the pH papers before I tried anything though.

My discharge setup is going to be homemade, modular and safe (high voltage wise).

What are your opinions on using ozonated water for applications in this field? It pretty much rapes and pillages bateria and spores within a very short time frame. Its halflife in water at room temperature is about 15 minutes, which makes me think that saturating a substrate such as Hpoo with ozone water then letting it break down will be plenty enough sterilization.


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InvisibleJaComet
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Re: Corona discharge ozone sterilization [Re: cosmoline]
    #7646776 - 11/17/07 08:10 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Greetings cosmoline,

Yes, I am aware of the procedures used in generating O3 through coronal discharge. On a lab level we used heated pure dried O2 as source gas to avoid nitric compound formation. Your intent to use a dehumidifier in your work space or apparatus is well considered. Nitric Oxide is particularly damaging to cells.

Ozonated water might be applicable to substrate preparation depending on the concentration of dissolved gas. I’m considering running some oyster straw experiments with hydrogen peroxide. Probably around 0.5%, in expectation of reducing anaerobic bacteria while promoting aerobic survival. I also use H2O2 in liquid culture solutions. Pressure sterilization drives much oxygen from the liquids that is not readily replaced from the air space in my DIY flasking method. A cc of 3.5% shot into hot media provides 10
cc of dissolved 02. Just what the little Friends need.

Good luck with your experiments.


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Re: Corona discharge ozone sterilization *DELETED* [Re: JaComet]
    #7648042 - 11/17/07 06:12 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

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InvisibleJaComet
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Re: Corona discharge ozone sterilization [Re: spock1]
    #7650091 - 11/18/07 08:15 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

spock1 said:
Quote:


ozone "blasts" are common -- usually over Federal safe limits. Corona Discharge Ozone Units should never be used for air purification in occupied areas, as they will usually exceed Federal safety limits of ozone.





You say that O3 is safe but then your quote says that levels over "Federal safe limits" are bad? Is it safe to inhale or not?




There are ( or at least were ) two “Federal” safe limits, the amount of O3 a machine puts out and the amount in a given atmosphere being breathed.

The “Federal” limits on atmosphere O3 are BS, IMO, and based primarily on studies made with CD gens. which can put out substantial amounts of nitric compounds, as stated. It is the Nitric Oxides and Acids that cause mucus membrane damage, not the Ozone.

That being said, even the best gen. will cause irritation to the lungs as the O3, and other energetic ions and anions oxidize built up pollutions. If you are a tobacco smoker, your breath will be taken away at higher concentration. Smoggy city dwellers, high dietary dairy intake, anything that thickens mucus or builds up in lungs. Can be quite uncomfortable till oxidations of O3 are finished.


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Edited by JaComet (11/18/07 08:25 AM)


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Re: Corona discharge ozone sterilization *DELETED* [Re: JaComet]
    #7650409 - 11/18/07 11:51 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

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Re: Corona discharge ozone sterilization [Re: spock1]
    #7650691 - 11/18/07 01:55 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Ozone is in no way healthful for any living thing. Oxidative stress has a negative impact at the cellular level.

It's not particularly effective at sterilizing anything, it's more of just an irritant to all but the weakest and smallest of organisms. It definitely wouldn't be safe to be around at sterilizing concentrations and it still wouldn't be 100%.

It is useful for eliminating odors and probably helps some people with allergies by breaking down allergens in the air a little faster.

I have a nice Alpine CD unit at home which I use to freshen up rooms, cars, and the like. I usually just crank it up and shut it away from people, then unplug it and air out the area before returning. It's amazingly effective at eliminating even the foulest and soaked in odors.

The company that made those units had a famous display where they would cut a slice of an onion and hold it right in front of the machine and ask you to try to smell it. But they also made all sorts of wild health claims while actually selling units that put out dangerous levels of ozone. Which is why they were shut down by the FDA.


-FF


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Re: Corona discharge ozone sterilization *DELETED* [Re: fastfred]
    #7651014 - 11/18/07 03:08 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

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Edited by spock1 (11/18/07 03:26 PM)


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OfflineLittleMario
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Re: Corona discharge ozone sterilization [Re: spock1]
    #7654209 - 11/19/07 01:05 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

I built an ozone generator once using a long halogen lightbulb and copper wire, rigged to an O2 tank. As a result of this I also got to experience ozone poisoning. Trust me, it's no fun. Imagine the worst asthma attack possible, followed by headache and being laid up in bed for a day. It's very easy to get poisoned because you will only smell the ozone for a moment before the concentration reaches a level that knocks out the receptors in your nose. The effects kick in several minutes later. You need to breath, but you can't, because every cubic centimeter of air that goes in your lungs has a heavy price in the currency of excruciating pain. You will produce considerably less ozone without pure O2, but without control on the airflow/time, etc, you still are risking dangerous levels. This shit will eat through rubber in seconds at high concentrations.

An ozone generator could supplement but could not replace other sterilization techniques. That being said, it will most certainly help with, though likely not eliminate, any airborne contaminates that are present in your workspace, and they are relatively simple to build yourself, in the 100-200 dollar range. The transformer will cost the most, I spent 75$ on mine. Commercial units are safer, but would be less effective, as most of them have minimal ozone output, and most of the better units are quite expensive.


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Offlinecosmoline
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Re: Corona discharge ozone sterilization [Re: LittleMario]
    #7657530 - 11/20/07 03:45 AM (6 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LittleMario said:
I built an ozone generator once using a long halogen lightbulb and copper wire, rigged to an O2 tank.




Sorry to hear about what happened but could you explain to me how you built the device? Also, what size transformer did you use?


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Re: Corona discharge ozone sterilization [Re: cosmoline]
    #7658480 - 11/20/07 12:55 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

I highly suggest buying one rather than trying to build your own. You can buy new and used units on ebay for under $200. You'd be hard pressed to build one yourself for that price and it's doubtful that you'd be able to attain the same level of performance as companies that have spent decades refining their design. Not to mention that it will be quite dangerous to work with such high voltages and exposed discharge plates. It will also be a safety hazard to operate your homebuilt unit unless you incorporate a number of safety features into it.

I can highly recommend the Alpine units. I have an older unit that is durable, safe, and can put out dangerously high levels of ozone when you crank it all the way up.

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=ozone+generator&category0=


-FF


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Re: Corona discharge ozone sterilization *DELETED* [Re: fastfred]
    #7659976 - 11/20/07 07:38 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

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