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Offlineeazyrid3r
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Mushrooms and Brain Damage - Correlation?
    #7430720 - 09/20/07 02:20 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

First of all - thank you community for everything. You have really opened my eyes up to the beauty of psychedelics. Its not just "fun" anymore (well it is) but it is an experience. A life altering event every time I ingest the fungal gift of the earth.

I have been listening to the loveline radio show rather often (the archives) because ex co-host Adam Corolla is a god damn genius (and has mushroom stories a-plenty). Anyway Dr. Drew keeps commenting that mushrooms can cause long term brain damage. Below is a quote from his website.

Quote:

Mushrooms are hallucinogens, so there's the potential of brain damage by excitotoxicity. This happens when brain cells become overstimulated, and they either die off or decrease their connection with other cells. The result of this is usually some kind of mood disturbance, such as a panic or anxiety disorder, which often doesn't develop until years after you've been exposed to psilocybin or psilocin, the chemicals found in mushrooms.




I believe that Dr. Drew does not buy anti-drug propaganda and he is a trained addiction specialist with tons of substance experience. Anyone care to weigh in on this theory of toxicity and brain damage? I would love to hear or be directed to contradictory studies (with factual evidence).

Rock on


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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: Mushrooms and Brain Damage - Correlation? [Re: eazyrid3r]
    #7430729 - 09/20/07 02:25 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I would imagine it from repeated excessive use, not just a one time deal but who knows


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OfflineHeiligBoomerz
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Re: Mushrooms and Brain Damage - Correlation? [Re: eazyrid3r]
    #7430738 - 09/20/07 02:31 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

my guess is mushrooms can cause low amounts of long-term effects IF they are not used right, for an example.

People who use pot on a daily basic to laugh, eat and indulge in too basic of activities while your brain is in such a "heightened state"
will suffer the "bad" effects of weed, on the other hand people who use it too be creative and enlighten themselves (like it was originally found to be good for, by shamens and healers all around the world) will experiance the effects of a more pure and joyful life.

Same goes with mushrooms, there a reason why mushrooms cannot be eaten everyday they are much more powerful then pot and you must learn much more for them to be worthwhile, and able to create the same good effect each time.

Just my theory.


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"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."


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OfflineHelixx
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Re: Mushrooms and Brain Damage - Correlation? [Re: HeiligBoomerz]
    #7430761 - 09/20/07 02:50 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Your theory is not grounded on any type of evidence, or any factual information. rid3r, i suggest you read http://www.shroomery.org/6300/The-Mushroom-and-the-Synapse , or search around on the web for other pharmacological summaries. If you want a brief answer, there is no brain damage or any physical harm whatsoever.

edit: was talking about heilig's theory.


Edited by Helixx (09/20/07 02:52 AM)


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InvisibleEll Ess Bree
reppin state tostate, wat uneed?

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 914
Re: Mushrooms and Brain Damage - Correlation? [Re: Helixx]
    #7431196 - 09/20/07 07:41 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Mushrooms can be eaten everyday if you no longer care for societal boundaries.

:thumbup:


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Offlinebagsofun
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Registered: 08/02/07
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Re: Mushrooms and Brain Damage - Correlation? [Re: Ell Ess Bree]
    #7432552 - 09/20/07 04:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Anything good is bad in excess.


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Ass, gas, or grass, nobody rides for free


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OfflineDrewwyann
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Re: Mushrooms and Brain Damage - Correlation? [Re: bagsofun]
    #7433148 - 09/20/07 06:11 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

not breathing


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Love powerfully :peace::heart::peace:


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Mushrooms and Brain Damage - Correlation? [Re: Drewwyann]
    #7433163 - 09/20/07 06:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

how is not breathing good?


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InvisibleBlindSophist
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Re: Mushrooms and Brain Damage - Correlation? [Re: learningtofly]
    #7433186 - 09/20/07 06:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know anything about Dr. Drew but it sounds like he's pulling things out of his ass. I've never read any of those things about psychedelics before; I don't think anyone on earth has a clear understanding of how they work or what they do, exactly. He's just making assumptions.

Doctors just love to do that... since they're trained in the medical profession, and it makes sense to them, they just assume it must be true. So they just express their theories and musings as hard scientific fact. It's a very ignorant thing to do and it's a major problem in our society, because people today look to doctors and scientists for answers. Unfortunately, having a "Dr." before your name does not preclude you from being a crackpot or an idiot.


Edited by Tchan909 (09/20/07 06:24 PM)


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OfflineMondale
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Re: Mushrooms and Brain Damage - Correlation? [Re: eazyrid3r]
    #7433301 - 09/20/07 06:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Just curious, where did you find your Loveline archives? I was trying to get a bunch of the old shows from before Adam left but all I could find was a torrent that was near 40 gigs.


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Offlinefenelcake
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Re: Mushrooms and Brain Damage - Correlation? [Re: Mondale]
    #7433917 - 09/20/07 09:39 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know about Dr. Drew except that he leans pretty well into the behavioral style of psychology, probably because he's a therapist and needs to be able to try to explain complex problems with simple, easy to understand solutions and/causes, but I don't know how well versed in physiological psychology he is. I listen to loveline, too, and it seems like he knows enough about a lot of things to help out menstruating teenage girls get over the emotional trauma of their abortions (daddy didn't use a condom) but not that much more for most subjects. But then again, neurological psychology might be his area of expertise, they really don't go to deep into the stuff they talk about on the show because of the demographic, so it's hard to gauge his level of understanding.
Anyway, from what I've read and been lectured on mushrooms certainly aren't addictive but are extremely excitatory, and anytime you prolong brain cells to high levels of any chemical it can damage them. You have a finite and unreplenishable number of neurons in your brain (at least until bush lets us play with stem cells ^^) so you probably don't want to expose them to high levels of chemicals on a regular basis. But also keep in mind that your brain cells are constantly dying, but you usually lose those brain cells that aren't really that important. Although it's good to have lots of backups, it's not so much the amount of brain cells you have as it is how they're strung up inside (although 10 neurons isn't going to do you too well no matter how they're arranged). So, every day you lose brain cells; every time you drink you lose more, although alcohol is responsible for the neurocide rather than the neurochemical-toxicity responsible for the death of brain cells you experience from mushrooms and pot.
Long story short, you have so many brain cells that losing a few isn't going to matter. However, if you make a habit of losing a few it will add up over time. You're not going to just lose half your brain or half your childhood memories from one or 5 trips on mushrooms, unless you're fucking trippin' balls out your ass (so much so that you're in danger of stroke or death), but if mushrooms are your weekend fun every weekend your grandkids might call you grampa retard.

By the way, like everyone else here I'm not an expert nor am I basing any of this advise off direct source studies or anything, but I am a psych major greatly interested in physiological psychology and have had the wisdom of professors and textbooks.

BTW, hyperventilation is much more dangerous than a mushroom trip. It can lead to fainting, lightheadedness, a lil' cerebral hypoxia, co2 build up, and I'm pretty sure coolness dyskinsea. Breathing in excess isn't a good thing.


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Just part of the slow vibration


Edited by fenelcake (09/20/07 09:47 PM)


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OfflinePositively4thSt
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Re: Mushrooms and Brain Damage - Correlation? [Re: fenelcake]
    #7434561 - 09/21/07 12:20 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I am a scientific-oriented person and enjoy learning about it. BUT the biggest problem the scientific community has is arrogance. They believe whatever the facts are of the moment are the absoulte truth and nothing exists outside it. I know not everyone thinks like this, but is a very prevelant viewpoint. So, in regards to mushrooms and pot, all their assumptions are not only based on limited data, but extremely biased data. Furthermore, since these substances are illegal, research is severely limited. I met with a doctor today who told me pot has lasting chemical effects, but based on my own research (hours upon hours), I have found nothing to indicate this to be true. These doctors are trained in a country where these substances are deeply frowned upon (illegal, obviously) so they are told they are bad. I'm sure if I lived in a state witha medical marijuana program, I would get a different story. But back to Dr. Drew - I would suspect a major reason he tells listeners mushrooms and pot are bad is because they are illegal and if he were to say anything but "they are unhealthy, don't do it" he would open himself up to a bag full of legal shit.


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Offlinefenelcake
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Re: Mushrooms and Brain Damage - Correlation? [Re: Positively4thSt]
    #7435086 - 09/21/07 03:09 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I agree with 4th st, don't trust doctors or scientists - they're all part of the corporations' plan. See children, when a corporation hires a doctor he is then infected with corporelium, a dangerous and insidious element the corporations keep from the man's periodic table. When you listen to your doctor, tiny corporelium pores are activated on your eye lids, that let in the dangerous chemical. This turns you all corporationy and stupid, just like everyone else who listens to doctors. Before corporations existed, like back in medieval times, medicine flourished: people lived long, without the fear of disease, because no one was infected with the corporation syndrome.
The worst part of corporerlium is that once you're infected you transfer corporation fluid onto anyone with which you come into contact, and THEY BECOME ALL CORPORATIONY. So, I'd really like to thank 4th street for keeping us all from falling victim to those damned bias doctors and once again being able to trust no one.
Although, I guess that if you fudge up data in the scientific community you're through - no one will listen to or trust you again. There isn't much data on exactly how pislocybin works on the brain, but there really isn't much data on how the brain works. Luckily, the data that exists concurs with each other. And, supposablly, there is that fact that regardless of how mushrooms work on the body they result in the excitation of neurons which makes them work faster and harder, putting a strain on them, but whatever, they're probably fine.

I'd like to actually agree with 4th that scientists are pretty cocky, but then again they know more about things than everyone else, to get to where they are professionally they had to have done well in classes, and are regularly asked questions (and so are put in a position of power). So it’s easy to understand why they’d get so cocky. But it's a fundamental of science to recognize that there'll always be that little extra information that will change their current models. I haven't had a professor nor met a scientist who didn't say things like, "As far as we know", or "At the moment it's believed" - they all have pressed that they could be wrong, but it's better to base theories (in fact, crucial for the definition of the word theory) off of evidence than speculation.


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Just part of the slow vibration


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Offlineporcupine
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Re: Mushrooms and Brain Damage - Correlation? [Re: fenelcake]
    #7435126 - 09/21/07 03:52 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

dont abuse mushrooms. use them only one in a very great while. your brain should be ok then. but if you trip every weekend, i am totally open to the idea of brain damage.


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