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BrainChemicals
Stranger
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Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs
#7290737 - 08/13/07 11:43 AM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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I had previously been one of those drug enthusiasts who constantly talked about how a life of financial mediocrity and marijuana plants growing in the back room of my house would be great. I smoked at least three times a week, and went shrooming 3 or 4 times a year.
When I began meditating, it all began slowly going away, until I think I lost all desire to do drugs. Last week, I meditated for over an hour, and it was much different than every other time. I forgot I existed, basically. Just like with drugs, time almost stopped existed. And I woke up, having never fallen asleep, feeling totally different. Unlike drugs though, it was a feeling comparable when you step from the 100 degree outdoors into your cool, 70 degree, air-conditioned home. And ever since then I have not seen any value in the psychedelic, entheogenic experiences drugs give you, because none of them could compare to the absolute content-ness, understanding, and compassion I felt when I opened my eyes last week. My mind was clear, crisp, and complete. Weed, shrooms, etc, despite making everything amazing and deep, still have very artificial feelings to them, and this was completely different.
I will thank my previous trips for driving me towards Buddhism and meditation, though. I had been a stone cold, determinist atheist - and they made me believe in things way beyond our 5 pathetic senses.
-------------------- Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone
Edited by BrainChemicals (08/13/07 11:45 AM)
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toadstooly
searcher oftruth
Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 252
Loc: where the wild things are...
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: BrainChemicals]
#7290781 - 08/13/07 12:01 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sounds like you discovered something wonderful for yourself.
congratulations.
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Coaster
Baʿal
Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 33,501
Loc: Deep in the Valley
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: toadstooly]
#7290800 - 08/13/07 12:06 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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teach me how to meditate have u ever done it while tripping?
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BrainChemicals
Stranger
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: Coaster]
#7290845 - 08/13/07 12:24 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've meditated since and haven't been able to get there again. Since then, I've probably averaged 20-30 minutes, and it still isn't every day thing, probably 3 or 4 times a week I try to meditate.
Basically, I just lie down in a quiet, dark place, in the same form that you see people meditating on TV, movies, etc... Cross legged, hands rested on knees. I find that the room has to be clean and tidy. Even with the lights off, it seems disorganization and filthiness definititely emits a negative energy. Sometimes I put my palms and fingers together in front of me, and it actually does help. I concentrate on my breathing, taking "real" breaths and trying not to think. At first I might have to count my breaths, but this eventually becomes unnecessary. I remind myself that despite my worries and stress, there is actually nothing wrong or beyond repair in my life at the moment. When I think, I try to return it to my breathing. Eventually, I'd say after 20 minutes, your mind finally settles down to the point where you actually don't want to get up and would prefer to keep sitting with your eyes closed. Your heartbeat slows down, and (from what I read) your brainwave frequency has changed at this point.
I am sure that I have only felt the tip of the iceberg. I definitely sees how it leads to increased compassion and a desire to help other human beings who are suffering, and it does so in a more "real" way than marijuana.
I'm still in a very early stage, though. I may have used a bit of hyperbole in my first post. The actual "feeling" wasn't as real or noticable as marijuana or shroom highs, which change your brain chemistry. But there is definitely a shift away from all the clatter, worry, etc in your brain to a more content, clearer consciousness, and it lasts for quite awhile, although I'm not sure because I usually do it before I sleep.
-------------------- Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone
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Floop
Stranger
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: BrainChemicals]
#7290923 - 08/13/07 12:49 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have found psychedelics to be of great use to increase my understanding of buddhist principles.
However to truly change and cultivate things like friendliness and joy and perhaos most importantly the understanding of Emptiness medidation is much more effective than psychedelics I think. Not surprisingly, since you're actually devoting hours upon hours upon hours on training your mind and increasing your awereness.
Another good use of psychedelics is that they can help you work through repressed material. Which, in my experience, can be really difficult to even acces through meditation. And its overall a beautiful experience usually giving you joy and hope.
So I think meditation and psychedelics supplement each other..
-------------------- "The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion. Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science. Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment and lives in a state of fear is a dead man. To know that what is impenatrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties - this knowledge, this feeling ... that is the core of the true religious sent iment. In this sense, and in this sense alone, I rank myself amoung profoundly religious men." -Albert Einstein
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BrainChemicals
Stranger
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: Floop]
#7290938 - 08/13/07 12:56 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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They do, absolutely, but I believe to actually observe yourself meditation is better. To free up those repressed memories, psychedelics are better. To use them, observe them, think about them, etc, meditation is better.
-------------------- Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone
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Coaster
Baʿal
Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 33,501
Loc: Deep in the Valley
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: BrainChemicals]
#7290960 - 08/13/07 01:06 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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another good way to meditate is take a bunch of ibogaine lol jk
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: Coaster]
#7290965 - 08/13/07 01:10 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've only reached that level of awareness 2 or 3 times well meditating. It is such a peaceful state to be in.. you've inspired me to go meditate right now
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BirdsIView
Mr. Helms
Registered: 07/19/07
Posts: 736
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: EternalCowabunga]
#7290994 - 08/13/07 01:22 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have been meditating recently for the first time. I just decided to lay down and close my eyes and I just stopped thinking and almost fully lost consciousness which is very hard for me to do. It was a very unexplainable feeling but I guess I could just call it peace. But, the last few times I have done this my mind won't stop thinking, I'll try the breathing technique to see if it helps.
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Floop
Stranger
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: BrainChemicals]
#7291013 - 08/13/07 01:27 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
BrainChemicals said: They do, absolutely, but I believe to actually observe yourself meditation is better. To free up those repressed memories, psychedelics are better. To use them, observe them, think about them, etc, meditation is better.
hmm, couldnt agree more:) btw do you only meditate when you're really sitting down to meditate 20/30 minutes? Thats what I used to do, but its slowly starting to become a 24/7 thing which I think is really important. To try to be aware at everything you're doing at all times, to really bring meditation into your everyday life.
-------------------- "The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion. Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science. Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment and lives in a state of fear is a dead man. To know that what is impenatrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties - this knowledge, this feeling ... that is the core of the true religious sent iment. In this sense, and in this sense alone, I rank myself amoung profoundly religious men." -Albert Einstein
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FondaCox
Ms.firstrecipientofaPMBanEVER
Registered: 05/20/07
Posts: 15,275
Loc: CanoooooooDIA
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: BirdsIView]
#7291058 - 08/13/07 01:37 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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A very successful friend of mine swears by meditating.
He was going through, as he called it, "a time of mental retardation". His doctor prescribed him drugs and recommended he see a psychologist. 3 weeks into the treatment he ran into a friend, who is even more successful than him, the friend recommended meditating.
He started meditating, but found that the drugs the doctor prescribed were preventing him from reaching full "awareness". He quit the prescribed meds, canned the psychologist and hired a Buddhist spiritual adviser.
So now, he is getting ever more successful (on top of owning a huge company he started himself), and recently while on a business trip he was approached by the Discovery Channel to have his own TV show!
He also told me that he got a troubled employee into meditating. She was fired for stealing to support her Heroine habit. But now she meditates for an hour a day and doesn't use! She quit heroine because she no longer felt the need or desire to do the drug. She still lives in the drug infested part of town and stays clean.
My friend gave me a book to read as well as a DVD and flash cards to get me started. I have to admit, I haven't tried it yet...I guess I'm not quite ready...
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santeri
Stranger
Registered: 08/13/07
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: Floop]
#7291074 - 08/13/07 01:44 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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When you start meditating, then you can really start to understand and make use of your psychedelic experiences.
Using psychedelicks without meditation is useless. That's my opinion.
More on meditation and buddhism in the thai therevada perspective:
Mind Development
He are some talks by one of the great thai western monk´s Ajaan Pannavaddho...
dhammatalks Ajaan Pannavaddho
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crazycripple
Stranger
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: santeri]
#7291152 - 08/13/07 02:12 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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i think im gonna meditate tonite.. what should i try and not think and just sit there slowing down my breathing until i feel relaxed, or think deep inside of myself?
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BrainChemicals
Stranger
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: crazycripple]
#7291195 - 08/13/07 02:27 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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When I started, I didn't try to stop thinking. That is hard and brings some anxiety sometimes. I regulated my breathing (the first step to meditation), and began thinking about important things. I sort of was guided in thought, but each thought was important and helped me be motivated and avoid negative influences and energies in my life.
I tried meditating for the first time two years ago. I didn't feel much; perhaps I was not ready or serious about it. I am glad I didn't give up on it. I hope to improve on it, and when I actually have money I will seek some advice on it.
-------------------- Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone
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Floop
Stranger
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: BrainChemicals]
#7291219 - 08/13/07 02:32 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Most buddhist centers will be glad to give you advise for free! They're often dependant on donations
-------------------- "The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion. Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science. Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment and lives in a state of fear is a dead man. To know that what is impenatrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties - this knowledge, this feeling ... that is the core of the true religious sent iment. In this sense, and in this sense alone, I rank myself amoung profoundly religious men." -Albert Einstein
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truekimbo2
Cya later, friends.
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 9,234
Loc: ny
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: Floop]
#7291250 - 08/13/07 02:43 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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meditation messed with my mind more than psychedelics did! (probably only because i had previously done psychedelics)
-------------------- You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.
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Random Patterns
Ranting soapboxspecialist
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 80
Loc: A mental paradox
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: truekimbo2]
#7291273 - 08/13/07 02:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Wow I'm glad to see how many people here meditate too. I try to get meditation in at least once a day but some days that's hard. I've found that my most profound meditations have been under the influence of cannabis, mushrooms, and even Ecstasy. It seems when you meditate and trip they perfectly compliment each other and soon you're having an out of body experience figuring out things you never even thought of.
hurray for meditation
-------------------- my mind is the canvas, where's the paint?
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Jive turkey
a black midget shemale
Registered: 07/12/07
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: FondaCox]
#7291280 - 08/13/07 02:54 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
FondaCox said: A very successful friend of mine swears by meditating.
He was going through, as he called it, "a time of mental retardation". His doctor prescribed him drugs and recommended he see a psychologist. 3 weeks into the treatment he ran into a friend, who is even more successful than him, the friend recommended meditating.
He started meditating, but found that the drugs the doctor prescribed were preventing him from reaching full "awareness". He quit the prescribed meds, canned the psychologist and hired a Buddhist spiritual adviser.
So now, he is getting ever more successful (on top of owning a huge company he started himself), and recently while on a business trip he was approached by the Discovery Channel to have his own TV show!
He also told me that he got a troubled employee into meditating. She was fired for stealing to support her Heroine habit. But now she meditates for an hour a day and doesn't use! She quit heroine because she no longer felt the need or desire to do the drug. She still lives in the drug infested part of town and stays clean.
My friend gave me a book to read as well as a DVD and flash cards to get me started. I have to admit, I haven't tried it yet...I guess I'm not quite ready...
Can I have the name of this book and DVD?
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FondaCox
Ms.firstrecipientofaPMBanEVER
Registered: 05/20/07
Posts: 15,275
Loc: CanoooooooDIA
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They are at home right now...I'll get the names for you...
The book cannot be purchased, they are given out for free at temples. It explains the origins meditation and how it came to be. Very interesting story I must say. It was originally written in some other language and then was translated to English. Even through translation it is very well written and easy to read. I would give you mine, but I haven't finished reading it. That is what you are supposed to do, give it away when you are done or return it to a temple.
Also, if you go to a temple, there are always other people there who are willing to help you. But there are lots of different kinds of Buddhism, hence all the different shapes of Buddha we see. The fat happy one, the female slender one etc...
Anyway, heading home in a few hours, I'll post the names and a picture for you in this thread.
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vladk
OM Shanti
Registered: 01/28/04
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Loc: Canada
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: Book and DVD [Re: FondaCox]
#7291403 - 08/13/07 03:25 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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You can't meditate on any psychedelics or any other drugs/intoxicants. The whole point of meditation is clarity, when you are tripping balls there is no clarity of any sort, you are even more screwed up than you normally would be. Why do you think one of the main precepts of Buddhism abstinence from intoxication? We are 'intoxicated' enough already, no need to be even more down the hole.
This newagism scares me, people devalue the true meaning of enlightenment and find everything they need conveniently on a blotter. It takes more than putting chemicals into your system to see past the barrier. Don't fool yourself about it.
Having said that, I am not against drugs at all. At the very least they can show you that there might be more to your mind. They are fun toys to see some things but they are no substitute for what you are truly capable of.
I know meditation without drugs is much less glamorous and actually takes effort but in the end the difference is between fooling yourself even more and being enlightened, make your choice.
I know I just expressed a view contrary to 99% of this board but if I don't balance you guys out somebody who was actually genuinely interested in meditation might think that it's ok to be 'fucked up' while pretending to meditate. Maybe this will make them think twice.
Be safe, enjoy your poison but don't fool yourself.
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Random Patterns
Ranting soapboxspecialist
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 80
Loc: A mental paradox
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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Re: Book and DVD [Re: vladk]
#7291460 - 08/13/07 03:41 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
vladk said: You can't meditate on any psychedelics or any other drugs/intoxicants. The whole point of meditation is clarity, when you are tripping balls there is no clarity of any sort, you are even more screwed up than you normally would be. Why do you think one of the main precepts of Buddhism abstinence from intoxication? We are 'intoxicated' enough already, no need to be even more down the hole.
This newagism scares me, people devalue the true meaning of enlightenment and find everything they need conveniently on a blotter. It takes more than putting chemicals into your system to see past the barrier. Don't fool yourself about it.
Having said that, I am not against drugs at all. At the very least they can show you that there might be more to your mind. They are fun toys to see some things but they are no substitute for what you are truly capable of.
I know meditation without drugs is much less glamorous and actually takes effort but in the end the difference is between fooling yourself even more and being enlightened, make your choice.
I know I just expressed a view contrary to 99% of this board but if I don't balance you guys out somebody who was actually genuinely interested in meditation might think that it's ok to be 'fucked up' while pretending to meditate. Maybe this will make them think twice.
Be safe, enjoy your poison but don't fool yourself.
First off, meditation doesn't belong to Buddhism. Meditation is a scarcely defined idea of simply finding, yes, clarity and also understanding in your own mind. Meditation can come in almost any form as long as you are achieving a calming and clarity in your mind. To some people jogging, walking, skating etc could be a form of meditation.
The vedic rishis believe in the ability of meditation to ascend into the after life before actually dying, a sort of NDE. This is something experienced in many high doses of shrooms, DMT etc. Being under he influence of psychedelics is far from being "fucked up."
Also, the same part of your brain that works during meditation is the same part of the brain that works while tripping.
I meditate a lot, sober and tripping, but to say you cannot meditate while tripping is to put bounds on meditation, an idea that is founded in boundlessness.
-------------------- my mind is the canvas, where's the paint?
Edited by Random Patterns (08/13/07 03:42 PM)
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BrainChemicals
Stranger
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Re: Book and DVD [Re: vladk]
#7291464 - 08/13/07 03:41 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Um I agree... one can not be tripping and meditate. No way. Marijuana, shrooms, etc pull you much further from clarity, which as previous poster stated, is what meditation is all about. Like he said, they are fun toys, but they shouldn't be taken as seriously for their spiritual properties as many take them.
I also disagree that running, etc can be a form of meditation. Meditation is different. It entails you shutting off almost all your 5 senses, ESPECIALLY sight (by far the most dominating sense we have), and is just totally different.
-------------------- Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone
Edited by BrainChemicals (08/13/07 03:45 PM)
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FondaCox
Ms.firstrecipientofaPMBanEVER
Registered: 05/20/07
Posts: 15,275
Loc: CanoooooooDIA
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Meditating Sober [Re: vladk]
#7291499 - 08/13/07 03:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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My friend also told me meditation should done sober.
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Random Patterns
Ranting soapboxspecialist
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 80
Loc: A mental paradox
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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Re: Meditating Sober [Re: FondaCox]
#7291562 - 08/13/07 04:17 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
FondaCox said: My friend also told me meditation should done sober.
Don't believe something like that until you've tried it yourself. Every one is different some people may have great clarity in meditation while tripping some may not.
I know Some of my clearest meditations have been while on shrooms, no CEV's or anything the idea of the sense of sight disappears when you go deep enough.;)
-------------------- my mind is the canvas, where's the paint?
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Mastamike1118
Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 2,010
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meditate while coming up on mushrooms ... acid or anything else... like brain chemicals said your thoughts are welcomed anything u think is accepted and then related back to your breaths any crazy thoughts that come let them come and accept them as thoughts... focus on the in and out of your breath... the same in/out up/down black/white of the world...
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FondaCox
Ms.firstrecipientofaPMBanEVER
Registered: 05/20/07
Posts: 15,275
Loc: CanoooooooDIA
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As promised:
DVD is called "Practical Meditation with buddhist principles - wellbeing program" by Ninkler Books.
Book is called "Mindfulness In Plain English" by Venerable H. Gunaratana Mahathera. The book is strictly for free distribution. Free copies can be obtained from:
The Corporate Body of the Buddha Educational Foundation 11F., 55 Hang Chow South Road Sec 1 Taipei, Taiwan R.O.C.
Even though it is free, these places are funded through donations. http://www.budaedu.org.tw
Oh yeah, and this is Dhamma meditation.
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SunshineDaydream
Journeyman
Registered: 06/03/06
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Re: Name of Book and DVD [Re: FondaCox]
#7291822 - 08/13/07 05:47 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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i have felt extreamely high from meditating before. i am quite interested in the topic. check out some Dick Stuphen (i think that's how you spell his name) spoken word tracks. especially is astral projection series.
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xFrockx
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,457
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You can argue all you want, but tripping while meditating is nothing more than tripping sitting down. When you're having CEV's while meditating it eliminates the visual sensory deprivation that is absolutely necessary to loosing yourself. Forgetting you exist because you are tripping so hard, and actually loosing yourself and becoming enlightened are two (some would say diametrically) opposed things.
Don't cheapen enlightenment man, shrooms are fun, and ego loss is incredible, but I'm no Buddha, and neither are you.
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vladk
OM Shanti
Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 66
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Quote:
Random Patterns said: First off, meditation doesn't belong to Buddhism. Meditation is a scarcely defined idea of simply finding, yes, clarity and also understanding in your own mind. Meditation can come in almost any form as long as you are achieving a calming and clarity in your mind. To some people jogging, walking, skating etc could be a form of meditation.
The vedic rishis believe in the ability of meditation to ascend into the after life before actually dying, a sort of NDE. This is something experienced in many high doses of shrooms, DMT etc. Being under he influence of psychedelics is far from being "fucked up."
Also, the same part of your brain that works during meditation is the same part of the brain that works while tripping.
I meditate a lot, sober and tripping, but to say you cannot meditate while tripping is to put bounds on meditation, an idea that is founded in boundlessness.
I know meditation doesn't belong to Buddhism, I just stated that the most meditation-centric path abstains from intoxication (for a damn good reason).
What you are saying is all the newage nonsense that I was talking about. So many people dilute meditation into something it's completely not. Let me give you a free revelation - what you are doing is not meditation. I can guarantee you that much. Put bonds on meditation? Lol. You have no clue what you are talking about my friend. Go see any respectable guru and talk to them about meditation and how 'clear' your mind is on psychedelics.
This is the kind of scary talk that will completely kill the real thing soon enough When everyone believes that enlightenment can be taken with a pill we will be lost.
People, please, if you are serious about this topic don't listen to anything on a psychedelic board, go talk to people who can actually show you what a human body/mind can do without the help of any external factors. Don't you want to know what YOU are capable of and not some chemical?
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vladk
OM Shanti
Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 66
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: Meditating Sober [Re: xFrockx]
#7291870 - 08/13/07 06:06 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: Don't cheapen enlightenment man, shrooms are fun, and ego loss is incredible, but I'm no Buddha, and neither are you.
Well, according to Buddhism both him and you are Buddhas. Just a small correction
I completely agree with you otherwise.
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NineStorms
The Dragon
Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 125
Loc: Existing between Heaven a...
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: Book and DVD [Re: vladk]
#7292021 - 08/13/07 07:18 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
vladk said: I know meditation doesn't belong to Buddhism, I just stated that the most meditation-centric path abstains from intoxication (for a damn good reason).
What you are saying is all the newage nonsense that I was talking about. So many people dilute meditation into something it's completely not. Let me give you a free revelation - what you are doing is not meditation. I can guarantee you that much. Put bonds on meditation? Lol. You have no clue what you are talking about my friend. Go see any respectable guru and talk to them about meditation and how 'clear' your mind is on psychedelics.
This is the kind of scary talk that will completely kill the real thing soon enough When everyone believes that enlightenment can be taken with a pill we will be lost.
People, please, if you are serious about this topic don't listen to anything on a psychedelic board, go talk to people who can actually show you what a human body/mind can do without the help of any external factors. Don't you want to know what YOU are capable of and not some chemical?
To be frank, what you are saying sounds to me like hyperbole. This is not directed strictly on your pro-meditation stand point, it is more to the fact that you seem to be spouting it as some type of religion, as many fanatics do, by attacking everything else.
Regarding your sentence, "This is the kind of scary talk that will completely kill the real thing soon enough =( When everyone believes that enlightenment can be taken with a pill we will be lost," is in my mind infantile. The world has gone through plenty of tragedies through its existence, and has not been lost yet. Additionally, even when advertising and crass consumerism has cheapened tons of ideas and values, the core has never been lost, and will always be practiced by someone so long as it has value. That is why things such as meditation, and yes, the use of psychadelic substances have survived for as long as they have, and will continue to do so in one form or another. The people who believe enlightenment can be taken with a pill are probably the same as those who believed they could achieve enlightenment through a self-help book published by some corporatized guru.
I'll just leave off with this: do you somehow believe meditation is superior to everything else, including the shamanism of many indigenous peoples who often use and used psychadelic substances? Instead of trumpeting your ideas as the end all and be all, realize how terrible the world would be if we were not allowed to explore different paths. If you haven't learned acceptance through meditation, you are clearly learning nothing at all.
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Jive turkey
a black midget shemale
Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 1,075
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: Name of Book and DVD [Re: FondaCox]
#7292027 - 08/13/07 07:19 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
FondaCox said: As promised:
DVD is called "Practical Meditation with buddhist principles - wellbeing program" by Ninkler Books.
Book is called "Mindfulness In Plain English" by Venerable H. Gunaratana Mahathera. The book is strictly for free distribution. Free copies can be obtained from:
The Corporate Body of the Buddha Educational Foundation 11F., 55 Hang Chow South Road Sec 1 Taipei, Taiwan R.O.C.
Even though it is free, these places are funded through donations. http://www.budaedu.org.tw
Oh yeah, and this is Dhamma meditation.
hey thanks man I appreciate it.
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leery11
I Tell You What!
Registered: 06/24/05
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Re: Name of Book and DVD [Re: Jive turkey]
#7292136 - 08/13/07 08:08 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: but I'm no Buddha, and neither are you.
Buddhism teaches that we are all Buddhas, what is necessary is cultivating all the seeds of awakening and simultaneously stopping the cultivation of seeds of suffering.
Meditation needs to be practiced sober. Mindfulness is good to practice all the time even while high if you choose to get high.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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kaniz
That one, overthere.
Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 4,166
Loc: Ontario
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Re: Name of Book and DVD [Re: Jive turkey]
#7292148 - 08/13/07 08:12 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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What may be meditation while sober, is more 'relaxation' techniques while tripping.
The ability to enter a deep state of relaxation while on a high dose of psychedelics can be a truly amazing thing.
However, maybe I'm just the odd one out - but I find it very easy to clear head of thoughts while tripping, and even easier to 'quiet the mind' than while sober.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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I've been doing several spiritual practices, meditation being just one of them, and I noticed that since then, psychedelics have held back my spiritual growth more than they've helped. I think at this point they've been reduced to simple party drugs for me, and there's very little mind expansion left to be gained from them.
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BrainChemicals
Stranger
Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 764
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Quote:
Silversoul said: I've been doing several spiritual practices, meditation being just one of them, and I noticed that since then, psychedelics have held back my spiritual growth more than they've helped. I think at this point they've been reduced to simple party drugs for me, and there's very little mind expansion left to be gained from them.
I don't know what to say besides ex-fucking-actly. That is exactly what I was saying. Meditation just made me realize how fake and artificial all the psychedelics were, despite the fact that I had previously always believed the feelings were so real. This reduced them to their only value: fun.
-------------------- Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone
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leery11
I Tell You What!
Registered: 06/24/05
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Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
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i meditate [generally hours a day] and most of the time is spent thinking about drugs
i guess though i have never really tripped much at all like some of the members here, though.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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crazycripple
Stranger
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Re: Book and DVD [Re: leery11]
#7292380 - 08/13/07 09:51 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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so when you guys meditate what do you focus on, and when you focus on that thing what do you do think it over again and again?
i just tried meditating for my first time and i got the breathing down and i felt very relaxed and i felt like i was almost there but i didnt know what to do next.
i just kept my mind very clear, what should i try next to feel enlightened or what would you do in my situation.
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leery11
I Tell You What!
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
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in out
what comes before after is irrelevant and let go
in out
that's it.
alternatively, think about not thinking. or think loving thoughts to all people including 'enemies'
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (08/13/07 09:56 PM)
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BrainChemicals
Stranger
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Re: Book and DVD [Re: leery11]
#7292429 - 08/13/07 10:03 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Dorkily perhaps, I usually move my arms and end up putting my hands flat against eachother, like in a lot of paintings. I visually myself like this in the third perhaps, amongst something amazing, like a lush forest full of life.
-------------------- Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,474
Loc: You get banned for saying that
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: BrainChemicals]
#7292431 - 08/13/07 10:03 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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your 5 pathetic senses and your body sensations are apparently the key to all worldly experience, although feeling is the fuel, so without any gas, you go nowhere. peace
-------------------- I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties! I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
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Posts: 31,474
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: BrainChemicals]
#7292459 - 08/13/07 10:12 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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i disagree with braincandy, i think it's the opposite, well... maybe not opposite, i think one frees up old memories AND helps you deal with them. Meditation is only about concentrating and focus and discipline on the outer level, a few hours will do that for you. Meditate for a few hours for a few days, and memories and feeling will come up, just as easily as they will with drugs. Drugs kick them up, but don't necessarily help you deal with them, unless you have the drug, which is a kickback, because it's an attachment.
what psychedelics do do, is give you an exlusive experience, based on changing your perception, which helps you understand different aspects of reality, and can gain you deep insight, if used with an open mind. Some people don't really have an open mind, for that there's meditation.
drugs are like cars i guess, you can use them to travel, as a toy, to destroy yourself, but they'll only go as far as the car will travel, that might be a great distance, but nonetheless limited. peace
-------------------- I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties! I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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crazycripple
Stranger
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: imachavel]
#7292496 - 08/13/07 10:22 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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so can one meditate all the time? Whenever im not talking or in
a conversation i am constantly going over in my mind what
happened that day or in the past, or even what i plan on doing.
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truekimbo2
Cya later, friends.
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 9,234
Loc: ny
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: imachavel]
#7292504 - 08/13/07 10:24 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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i'm surprised no one got into arguments about the different kinds of meditation, since there are about as many ways to meditate as there are people.
also... i don't think meditation has ever brought up repressed material for me... interesting i hadn't noticed that. well actually now that i think of it I've found "thoughts" and "feelings" embodied in different parts of my body, but never any focus on where they came from or why.
-------------------- You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.
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m_djbliss
Stranger
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: toadstooly]
#7292513 - 08/13/07 10:27 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Wow! That's awesome. I've meditated a handful of times. Each time was a great experience...
Meditation is powerful. Being able to actualize the inner being, spirit.. God. Way cool.
Maybe I'll meditate a bit more. I enjoy waking up a new person and having profound realizations while using mushrooms as well tho Only once or twice a year though...
-------------------- Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without. -Buddha
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Random Patterns
Ranting soapboxspecialist
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 80
Loc: A mental paradox
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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Re: Book and DVD [Re: vladk]
#7292760 - 08/13/07 11:53 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
vladk said:
Quote:
Random Patterns said: First off, meditation doesn't belong to Buddhism. Meditation is a scarcely defined idea of simply finding, yes, clarity and also understanding in your own mind. Meditation can come in almost any form as long as you are achieving a calming and clarity in your mind. To some people jogging, walking, skating etc could be a form of meditation.
The vedic rishis believe in the ability of meditation to ascend into the after life before actually dying, a sort of NDE. This is something experienced in many high doses of shrooms, DMT etc. Being under he influence of psychedelics is far from being "fucked up."
Also, the same part of your brain that works during meditation is the same part of the brain that works while tripping.
I meditate a lot, sober and tripping, but to say you cannot meditate while tripping is to put bounds on meditation, an idea that is founded in boundlessness.
I know meditation doesn't belong to Buddhism, I just stated that the most meditation-centric path abstains from intoxication (for a damn good reason).
What you are saying is all the newage nonsense that I was talking about. So many people dilute meditation into something it's completely not. Let me give you a free revelation - what you are doing is not meditation. I can guarantee you that much. Put bonds on meditation? Lol. You have no clue what you are talking about my friend. Go see any respectable guru and talk to them about meditation and how 'clear' your mind is on psychedelics.
This is the kind of scary talk that will completely kill the real thing soon enough When everyone believes that enlightenment can be taken with a pill we will be lost.
People, please, if you are serious about this topic don't listen to anything on a psychedelic board, go talk to people who can actually show you what a human body/mind can do without the help of any external factors. Don't you want to know what YOU are capable of and not some chemical?
Honestly, it seems to me you've learned little in the ways of Buddhism and acceptance. I was just trying to give a more broad idea that people can do what they want. psychedelics have been respected sacred things for thousands of years and are by no means a simple "toy" anyone who's used them should know this.
I will agree that sober meditation and tripping meditation are completely different things but that does not devalue meditating while tripping. To say I cannot gain enlightenment through these types of meditation is again to apply definition to something that is very undefined. Your way is not the only way and you should not force those ideas on everyone else, just share them.
p.s. that whole line of bullshit about thinking enlightenment can be taken in a pill is just you putting a bunch of words in mine and a lot of other people's mouths I in no way think simply taking a psychedelic grants enlightenment. We must all work for enlightenment in our own ways.
-------------------- my mind is the canvas, where's the paint?
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods
Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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drugs are only a tool and can aid but are unnecessary.
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
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Limerick
a moment ofclarity
Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 656
Loc: the bark and below it
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: imachavel]
#7294173 - 08/14/07 02:24 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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does anybody have a link for alternative ways to meditate? i've just been belly breathing..
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Apollyphelion
Dungeon Master/Princess(1009)
Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 16,757
Loc: Festival of Deaths
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: Limerick]
#7294191 - 08/14/07 02:33 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Meditation is kinda subjective and kinda objective just like drugs. It's quantum shit, yo!
-------------------- "I'm looking at you looking at it" SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion Creator of the World's Worst Comic Book
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Stizzle
Stranger
Registered: 04/26/07
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: Apollyphelion]
#7294410 - 08/14/07 03:47 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Placebo
--------------------
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BrainChemicals
Stranger
Registered: 04/16/07
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: Stizzle]
#7299298 - 08/15/07 10:19 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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I just ordered a book "The Tao of Physics." It is basically about how religions like Taoism and Buddhism may have practically had it right, and how quantum theory, particle physics, and so on are starting to actually suggest they are. Furthermore, the author, a physicst at Berkeley, admits he had to use "power plants" originally to reach this level before it became unecessary.
-------------------- Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone
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Teotzlcoatl
Teotzlcoatl
Registered: 06/29/07
Posts: 2,421
Loc: South-Eastern USA
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: BrainChemicals]
#7299326 - 08/15/07 10:26 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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i agree...I think eventually you shouldn't need them, but it's ok to use them in the begining.....just do not depend on entheogens..
-------------------- "We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb
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MycoThrill
MycoFreak!
Registered: 04/13/07
Posts: 243
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
#7299331 - 08/15/07 10:27 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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My friends say I meditate a lot while tripping/high. I personally find it to unleash my worries, and allows me to concentrate on other senses and 'control' them.
-------------------- "The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page." ---St. Augustine
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods
Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: BrainChemicals]
#7301206 - 08/16/07 01:53 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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exactly meditaion is matery of placebo
-------------------- "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: Meditation has completely devalued all my psychedelic highs [Re: thedudenj]
#7301416 - 08/16/07 03:08 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
thedudenj said: exactly meditaion is matery of placebo
BS.
Meditation is taking complete control over your own mind... it can make you feel high, but it is not a placebo effect. It's the feeling of a clear mind, free of all artificial influence and control. In the course of freeing your mind, meditation is the coursework, and psychedelics are extra credit - they can help, and offer their own unique lessons, but are not necessary, and are inferior to meditation as an independent means to enlightenment.
To call meditation a "mastery of placebo" not only does it a tremendous disservice, it also drastically understates the power of meditation to bring order and control to a mind beset on all sides by the madness of the less-enlightened. It also does a horrible disservice to the great Buddha and all of his followers. Don't call yourself a shaman if that's what you really think meditation is.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (08/16/07 03:12 PM)
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