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 perceptionist
Doc
Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 46
Loc: Flooby Nooby
Last seen: 4 months, 6 days
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 Self defeating thoughts... 
#6692287 - 03/20/07 07:37 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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It amazes me all of the self help books, therapists etc who profess that all of our negative self defeating thoughts are delusional and that we are all wonderful people who deserve their place in society. C'mon now, I have a hard time reading/listening to these positive words without thinking, heh, if you only knew. I always wonder if these people ever consider the fact that maybe these 'negative' thoughts just might be accurate? But then again, maybe just maybe I am fine and everyone else in the world is crazy...right? Possibly, but is that really likely? It could be that I am just feeling the effects of being a part of the freak minority, or maybe we are a bigger group than I thought...well then where the hell are my real friends? I am in my mid 30s and have yet to meet them. It seems everyone I have met over the years (including people I have observed) just make me more aware of just how twisted and on the outer fringe I really must be. So many people say they are open minded and non judgmental, But I seem to have a knack for uncovering this for the BS it really is.
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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
"Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened"
-Dr. Seuss
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FatBath
Turtle Wannabe
Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 87
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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I want what you say to be true. I can proudly exclaim, "YES! I am a worthless loser after all." There is something liberating in this. Strange. People tell me I am a good person, I silently seethe and label them blind.
Ah, but unfortunatly I have no clear grasp on right and wrong or matters of truth. Maybe chalk this one up to another uncertainty amongst the delusional garble?
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 13,061
Last seen: 6 hours, 4 seconds
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Re: Self defeating thoughts... [Re: FatBath]
#6693636 - 03/21/07 01:09 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think the attempt is more about telling you what is possible, than what your reality is.
Everyone's got problems. Even those self-help writing gurus. If we were all content with where we are in life, we'd never strive for anything better.
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Muppet
Nomadic Jester
Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 28,785
Loc: (523) 327-2836
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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I dunno about you bro, but I guarantee you that all of my negative thoughts are right on the money
my depression stems from a purely logic understanding that I truely am completely fucken worthless 
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 Ravings of a Madman
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tools_n_corpses
why did i choosethis name
Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 172
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: Self defeating thoughts... [Re: Muppet]
#6694250 - 03/21/07 05:43 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Admitting that makes you feel good not because it's true but because you let go of your socially constructed ego for a second there.
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"Misery only doth exist, none miserable,
No doer is there; naught save the deed is found.
Nirvana is, but not the man who seeks it.
The Path exists, but not the traveler on it."
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DrCamacho89
Mazel Tuff
Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1,981
Last seen: 5 years, 26 days
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I think recognizing that the world is not a pretty place and that people are basically full of shit is the first step to successfully perceiving this world. (how many steps there are? Who the fuck knows? You said that you don't have any real friends because they're all phony and judgemental. Well, you just judged them in that statement. You're judgemental! But who really cares? It's not so bad to feel superior to others as long as you're not pushing them down so you can get ahead.
I happen to like the flaws in some people. Some flaws are intolerable, and they usually don't belong to my friends. Some flaws are tolerable and can actually be quite funny and charming, and those people are my friends. The bottom line is we're all fucked up! Every single one of us. The problem is we are fucked up based on different life structures that have been implanted into our minds since we were mere diaper shitters. So, are we the ones who are fucked up or is it the system? We live in a society where we constantly compare ourselves to others rather than just focus on our own lives with the knowledge that everyone else is fucked up.
The world is ugly and it's those with the thickest skin who can survive anything.
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"The Highways of Life are Paved with Flat Squirrels who Couldn't Make Up Their Minds"
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 WhiskeyClone
Not here
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,492
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
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Quote:
perceptionist said:
I always wonder if these people ever consider the fact that maybe these 'negative' thoughts just might be accurate?
So what if they're accurate? Is it worth investing your time and mental stamina in telling yourself that you are a loser (or whatever)? Negative thoughts become accurate, because if you think you are a loser, you will walk, talk and act like a loser.
Thoughts don't have to be delusional to be self-defeating.
The world will seem hostile to anybody who takes their negative thoughts to heart. Anybody who assumes that anybody who turns without their turn signal is a useless shithead will quickly find themselves in a world populated with useless shitheads. Anybody who tells themselves that they don't really deserve a place in society will find that they do not have a place in society.
In this sense, you can transform the entire world by transforming your perspective of it.
What these books are trying to tell you is thinking is just your mind going off on its prejudiced tangents, which can lead you to all kinds of erroneous conclusions if you let it.
Quote:
But I seem to have a knack for uncovering this for the BS it really is.
Congratulations.
The bottom line is, most of the time, we are not perceiving reality; we are merely perceiving our thoughts about reality. These thoughts are always colored and refracted by our prejudices and emotions, and the result is usually something ugly.
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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.
~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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FreeYerMind
Stranger
Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 3
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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 Re: Self defeating thoughts... [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#6695134 - 03/21/07 01:59 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey all, I love the site, until now I have been a lurker here. I had to comment on this thread as it resonates with my lifestyle. You are not alone, I feel ya dude. I consider myself a "freak" and am proud of it. The reality I have manufactured for myself though says that I have no place in society. I think I am fine and that there is nothing wrong with the way I am. I don't think the rest of society would agree with me however. I have had consensual recreational sex with my sister and neither of us feel it is wrong. Are we delusional to feel we need to hide this from our 'peers'? I mean after all we should be able to tell our friends anything right? Then from where does the feeling come from that it would be a mistake to let this out? Is this instinctual repression a result of low self esteem? I am not done yet... I also see no problem with allowing my dog to mount me at his eager repeated requests. I hate the feeling that I have to conceal these facets of my personality. According to what others say here, feeling the need to conceal these things is an error on my part or I need to be more comfortable with myself. As I stated, I AM comfortable with myself, but in order to have friends in this society (from my vantage point) you must be fake. Logically it must be done...
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DrCamacho89
Mazel Tuff
Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1,981
Last seen: 5 years, 26 days
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Re: Self defeating thoughts... [Re: FreeYerMind]
#6695400 - 03/21/07 03:17 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
FreeYerMind said:
Hey all, I love the site, until now I have been a lurker here. I had to comment on this thread as it resonates with my lifestyle. You are not alone, I feel ya dude. I consider myself a "freak" and am proud of it. The reality I have manufactured for myself though says that I have no place in society. I think I am fine and that there is nothing wrong with the way I am. I don't think the rest of society would agree with me however. I have had consensual recreational sex with my sister and neither of us feel it is wrong. Are we delusional to feel we need to hide this from our 'peers'? I mean after all we should be able to tell our friends anything right? Then from where does the feeling come from that it would be a mistake to let this out? Is this instinctual repression a result of low self esteem? I am not done yet... I also see no problem with allowing my dog to mount me at his eager repeated requests. I hate the feeling that I have to conceal these facets of my personality. According to what others say here, feeling the need to conceal these things is an error on my part or I need to be more comfortable with myself. As I stated, I AM comfortable with myself, but in order to have friends in this society (from my vantage point) you must be fake. Logically it must be done...
Wow did that get off topic. I feel some societal rules are in place for our own good; incest and beastiality being two of them. But hey, what do I know?
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"The Highways of Life are Paved with Flat Squirrels who Couldn't Make Up Their Minds"
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WhiskeyClone
Not here
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,492
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
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Re: Self defeating thoughts... [Re: FreeYerMind]
#6695401 - 03/21/07 03:17 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Fuck off puppet.
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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.
~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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Corporal Kielbasa
aka shiek
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 14,870
Loc: urmomsroom
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Quote:
perceptionist said:
It amazes me all of the self help books, therapists etc who profess that all of our negative self defeating thoughts are delusional and that we are all wonderful people who deserve their place in society. C'mon now, I have a hard time reading/listening to these positive words without thinking, heh, if you only knew. I always wonder if these people ever consider the fact that maybe these 'negative' thoughts just might be accurate? But then again, maybe just maybe I am fine and everyone else in the world is crazy...right? Possibly, but is that really likely? It could be that I am just feeling the effects of being a part of the freak minority, or maybe we are a bigger group than I thought...well then where the hell are my real friends? I am in my mid 30s and have yet to meet them. It seems everyone I have met over the years (including people I have observed) just make me more aware of just how twisted and on the outer fringe I really must be. So many people say they are open minded and non judgmental, But I seem to have a knack for uncovering this for the BS it really is.
Pick up some more books. Look into the Huna Way. It's the native Hawaiian philosophy. Best one i found so far. Seems to be a mix of all other peoples interpretations.
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Wanted:
Pleurotus eryngii
Pleurotus cystidiosus
Tricholoma conglobatum
Agrocybe aegerita
Flammulina velutipes
Volvariella volvacea
Sparassis crispa
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perceptionist
Doc
Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 46
Loc: Flooby Nooby
Last seen: 4 months, 6 days
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Re: Self defeating thoughts... [Re: DrCamacho89]
#6695725 - 03/21/07 05:04 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DrCamacho89 said:
You said that you don't have any real friends because they're all phony and judgemental. Well, you just judged them in that statement. You're judgemental!
I don't judge before it becomes clear that they have judged me for the way I choose to live my life. If I go into it open minded and the other person clearly passes judgment on me, I do tend to judge such actions, so yes in that respect you are correct.
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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
"Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened"
-Dr. Seuss
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perceptionist
Doc
Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 46
Loc: Flooby Nooby
Last seen: 4 months, 6 days
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 Re: Self defeating thoughts... [Re: FreeYerMind]
#6695757 - 03/21/07 05:14 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
FreeYerMind said:
Hey all, I love the site, until now I have been a lurker here. I had to comment on this thread as it resonates with my lifestyle. You are not alone, I feel ya dude. I consider myself a "freak" and am proud of it. The reality I have manufactured for myself though says that I have no place in society. I think I am fine and that there is nothing wrong with the way I am. I don't think the rest of society would agree with me however. I have had consensual recreational sex with my sister and neither of us feel it is wrong. Are we delusional to feel we need to hide this from our 'peers'? I mean after all we should be able to tell our friends anything right? Then from where does the feeling come from that it would be a mistake to let this out? Is this instinctual repression a result of low self esteem? I am not done yet... I also see no problem with allowing my dog to mount me at his eager repeated requests. I hate the feeling that I have to conceal these facets of my personality. According to what others say here, feeling the need to conceal these things is an error on my part or I need to be more comfortable with myself. As I stated, I AM comfortable with myself, but in order to have friends in this society (from my vantage point) you must be fake. Logically it must be done...
Now you are the type of person I could comfortably hang with. Although I may not be on the same paragraph with you, I am definitely on the same page. You are obviously not hurting anyone yet I am sure if you were to speak freely of your behavior, you might as well just write off having friends altogether, unless you met like minded people. But if you are afraid to express yourself due to our social belief system and cultural programming, how does one build the bridges necessary to experience the friendships we all long for and supposedly deserve? Thank you for putting this into focus, you demonstrate the true meaning of "thinking outside the box"
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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
"Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened"
-Dr. Seuss
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WhiskeyClone
Not here
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,492
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
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Oh jeez guys learn to recognize a puppet. Who logs onto a Magic Mushroom messageboard, then immediately goes to the Physical and Mental Health forum and makes his first post about fucking his sister and his dog?
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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.
~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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DrCamacho89
Mazel Tuff
Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1,981
Last seen: 5 years, 26 days
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Quote:
perceptionist said:
Quote:
DrCamacho89 said:
You said that you don't have any real friends because they're all phony and judgemental. Well, you just judged them in that statement. You're judgemental!
I don't judge before it becomes clear that they have judged me for the way I choose to live my life. If I go into it open minded and the other person clearly passes judgment on me, I do tend to judge such actions, so yes in that respect you are correct.
Man, I'm not judging you for being judgemental. That's my point. We are all judgemental in one respect or another. I think the only way to be truly non judgemental is to not give a rat's ass what other's think of you. I'm not sure if that's possible. We all care, some are just better are pretending not to care than others.
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"The Highways of Life are Paved with Flat Squirrels who Couldn't Make Up Their Minds"
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FreeYerMind
Stranger
Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 3
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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 Re: Self defeating thoughts... [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#6695890 - 03/21/07 05:51 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
WhiskeyClone said:
Fuck off puppet.
Were you referring to me, or DrCamacho89 for saying:
"Wow did that get off topic. I feel some societal rules are in place for our own good; incest and beastiality being two of them. But hey, what do I know?"
Because if my understanding of the term 'puppet' is correct, it is a conformist, one who goes along with the ideals of the hive mind, a follower, a sheep...etc...
I don't feel I fit this description, so if you were referring to me, could you please define your use of the term 'puppet'?
I have been reading these forums for a while now and could relate to the alienation described by the original poster as I experience it all the time. It is depressing that there is no dialog on such topics. I REFUSE to be labeled as TABOO because I think differently. I am still a good polite person who is confused about how exactly these labels of deviance originated...is it a biblical thing? Enlighten me please...
Sorry, I can get defensive sometimes. In my life as a minority it has become the norm to get my point across unless I want to remain alienated forever. One must be proactive when establishing their identity if one wants any company on this journey...
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Quote:
It amazes me all of the self help books, therapists etc who profess that all of our negative self defeating thoughts are delusional and that we are all wonderful people who deserve their place in society.
Most "self-help" books merely regurgitate an exaggerated form of cognitive behavior therapy and/or rational-emotive behavior therapy. Both are effective forms of psychotherapy, but are not as simple as telling yourself, "I am a great person" over and over again. Good thinking can lead to good feelings - to a certain extent. The problem with many self-help books is that they do a poor job of challenging self-defeating beliefs. They tend to rely on the dubious hypothesis that everyone is inherently a super-duper person and merely needs to realize their super-duperness.
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it stars saddam
Satan
Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 15,556
Loc: Spahn Ranch
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Even though I know you hate people that agree with you, well said.
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WhiskeyClone
Not here
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,492
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
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Re: Self defeating thoughts... [Re: FreeYerMind]
#6699001 - 03/22/07 01:31 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
FreeYerMind said:
Quote:
WhiskeyClone said:
Fuck off puppet.
Because if my understanding of the term 'puppet' is correct, it is a conformist, one who goes along with the ideals of the hive mind, a follower, a sheep...etc...
I don't feel I fit this description, so if you were referring to me, could you please define your use of the term 'puppet'?
I have been reading these forums for a while now and...
I don't know how you could have been reading these boards for a while without learning what a puppet is. I'm still not convinced that you aren't a puppet, but FYI a puppet is a second username created by an established user for the purposes of trolling and stirring shit up.
The reasons I called you a puppet:
Typically, when a user's first post is controversial, bordering on unbelievable (all moral and social issues aside, having sex with your sister and dog is not common), that user is a troll.
Over the years I have seen many new users' first posts, and it is extremely rare for one of them to make such a bold declaration, which will undoubtedly define them (to some extent) to other users, for the duration of their posting career here. In other words, expect to take some flak for your first post, especially if OTD gets a hold of it.
Puppets, historically, don't care because they have a spare identity.
When a user's first post is in the Physical & Mental health forum, on a website that is focused on psychedelic drugs, one might wonder why that user signed up here.
Another puppet giveaway: your screen name is suspiciously fitting for your first post in particular.
If these are all coincidences, then I apologize. Welcome to the Shroomery. Your resemblance to known puppets is uncanny, but not your fault.
To the original poster: sorry for jacking your thread with my rants  I just get mad when puppets make a mockery of a serious question, especially in this forum.
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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.
~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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FreeYerMind
Stranger
Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 3
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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Re: Self defeating thoughts... [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#6700060 - 03/22/07 07:28 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks for the description, I am just a person who saw an opportunity to express myself for some insight to the publics view of my lifestyle. Well, I already am aware of the publics view, I suppose I am looking for the why more than anything. There are not many places where people are free thinkers such as here. My reasoning for reading this particular forum is being a psychedelic site, people generally think outside the norm. The fact there is a Psych section on such a site lends itself to be the perfect place to discuss such traditionally unaccepted behavior. At first before understanding the hostility towards "puppets" I just assumed the hostility was towards the way I live. We know there is plenty of it out there. Sorry for not being privy to the terminology, I am aware of what you define a puppet to be, I have always just called them schizo-posters, but puppet seems an appropriate word. I realize what I am saying might sound ridiculous and unbelievable, not trying to stir any shit, but this is me, and I felt from what I have read on this site it could be openly discussed w/o judgment. We all know how persecuted the psychedelic community has been...hell the gay community as well is still seeing the flames that proclaim it a "crime against nature". If you want me out of your forum, say the word. I have long realized weirdos like myself should get used to harsh welcomes, it's all good, no harm, no foul. 
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WhiskeyClone
Not here
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,492
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
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Re: Self defeating thoughts... [Re: FreeYerMind]
#6702712 - 03/23/07 01:07 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I realize what I am saying might sound ridiculous and unbelievable, not trying to stir any shit, but this is me, and I felt from what I have read on this site it could be openly discussed w/o judgment.
Without judgment? Not likely. Users of this site are, in my experience, much more open minded that average, but we are all human, and humans are judgmental creatures. For what it's worth, I accept the lifestyle you claim to lead, however bizarre it is to me, because it's not hurting anyone else.
Quote:
We all know how persecuted the psychedelic community has been...hell the gay community as well is still seeing the flames that proclaim it a "crime against nature". If you want me out of your forum, say the word.
I only want you out of this forum if you are a puppet.
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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.
~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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evolprim
human
Registered: 05/07/06
Posts: 1,226
Last seen: 11 months, 22 days
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you guys aren't worthless. don't get down on your self and don't let anyone else define what worth is.
godbless
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weonlycut
Stranger
Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 15
Last seen: 9 months, 16 days
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Re: Self defeating thoughts... [Re: FatBath]
#16563406 - 07/21/12 09:20 AM (9 months, 23 days ago) |
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We feel the whole world is cruel and not sincere to us if we get over judgmental. Actually we should first critically analyze our attitudes and behaviors. We are humans having different mood swings. Sometimes we are happy, other time sad, sometimes angry, other time we over react on certain things. So that is the case with other people also. If sometimes they get angry or use harsh words or don't behave nicely its normal. We all are like that. The important thing is how quickly you come to each other again. So try to be open hearted and let go things to have peace of mind.
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