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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Automating a terrarium
    #6587794 - 02/19/07 09:59 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Well, this has been around for a bit and there are competitors like http://www.growtronix.com but I find they are too pricey for my purposes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHmEfdAOpWc

YouTube is poop, the embedded video might not work.



I estimate an ETA of less than a month until I'm finished to my satisfaction with the design. At that point I'm going to shoot for [semi]mass production. I'm considering making part of this project open-source, ie "make your own".

Let me know what you all think - comments, suggestions, criticisms of my ways, etc. are all welcome.


Edited by poke smot! (02/21/07 10:55 AM)


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Automating your terrarium [Re: poke smot!]
    #6587922 - 02/19/07 10:24 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

yea, it would be nice to have your computer dial out to your cell phone, to say, "you dummy, come fill the humidifiers!"  Mine always seem to run out just as I go to bed, especially if i've forgotten to check on them first.  A phone call would be nice.  I've always resisted the urge to complicate my greenhouse though. . .so far... :wink:
RR


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Re: Automating your terrarium [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6588004 - 02/19/07 10:45 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, bluetooth sure as hell adds complexity for me, but the actual device I want to sell will be usb, low-cost, and worthwhile.

I want it to be something where you plug it in, run the software wizard (custom tailored for these kinds of applications), and it be within the budget of small-time hobbyists.


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Re: Automating your terrarium [Re: poke smot!]
    #6588577 - 02/20/07 04:06 AM (4 years, 11 months ago)

I think it's a viable idea. If you're going to have a microcontroller on board it would be just as easy to have it be a stand alone unit. You could shuttle the data to and from the microcontroller as needed. You really wouldn't need computer control to run it, any microprocessor these days has enough computing horsepower to handle temp, humidity, and some relays.


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Re: Automating your terrarium [Re: fastfred]
    #6597361 - 02/22/07 12:40 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

http://www.velleman.be/ot/en/product/view/?id=351346

was thinkin of getting one of these and some sensors & relays and have
my friend who is a skilled eletrician to help me put things together.
i'll take care of the programming :smile:. seems like a great project you're
up to. these things i need will make it cost quite a bit
you're doing it from scratch right? guess it will cut costs grealty.


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Re: Automating your terrarium [Re: Arp]
    #6597745 - 02/22/07 02:16 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, for the most part starting from scratch. The unit has enough onchip ram/eeprom to run independent of a pc for extended periods.

It's still important to be able to adjust the programming on-the-fly. I was thinking of going to an sd card interface, where data is transferred to/from computer that way. For now, this version has wireless and is more a platform for which to develop a wireless/usb board.

There is another thread about this in the other forum and some agree that this is a novelty item. I don't remember monotubs being around when I started this "automation" project. Using martha's was/is an efficient way to provide the right, isolated environment needed for certain purposes.

I'd imagine if it is cheap enough and offers results, it'd be viable to make a few more of them. And, there's probably a few people out there that would automate their stuff just for the novelty factor.

This whole thing has more been just an exploration in microcontroller programming, for me. It is something I can be creative in, I'm pretty passionate about it - that's part of the motivating force behind working to finish it. I look at what I don't like in other things that are out there, and design something that will fulfill its purpose efficiently.


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Re: Automating your terrarium [Re: poke smot!]
    #6598489 - 02/22/07 04:29 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

I reckon it will be a valuable product as there are many mushrooms selective in their preference of enviroment.

This would optimize and make enviromental variables much more accurate :thumbup:

Perhaps you could make it possible to add on extra sensors for those who want to take it another step aswell.


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Re: Automating your terrarium [Re: Arp]
    #6600176 - 02/22/07 10:29 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

I cant wait!!!:) Total Automation is only a couple weeks away:)


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Edited by Helge (02/23/07 12:03 AM)


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Re: Automating your terrarium [Re: Helge]
    #6602327 - 02/23/07 01:20 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Ive been looking for a low cost automation. I'm sure the market is more then ample to put forth the effort in making a lot of these kits. My main set back has been the interface with the computer. I'm not vary skilled yet with programming. It being open source would allow someone to make a nice GUI interface and add some e-mail options or text message your phone and give you a temp/hum report. I know if it were reasonably priced I would buy one. And if its wireless that would be amazing.


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Re: Automating your terrarium [Re: Socrates]
    #6605174 - 02/24/07 09:17 AM (4 years, 11 months ago)

This has been quite an effort. I'd like to make an open-source project but I have a lot invested in this. Most of the information on how to do everything & what hardware is required, but that's the "easy" part. :grin:


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Re: Automating your terrarium [Re: poke smot!]
    #6605567 - 02/24/07 11:55 AM (4 years, 11 months ago)

nice going, smotty :laugh:


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Re: Automating your terrarium [Re: shirley knott]
    #6609943 - 02/25/07 06:21 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Nice, what chip burner are you using?

I bought a willems burner to use for burning tuned maps for my turbocharged honduh. It seems to be quite versatile though and I thought about using it for microcontroller programming as well.


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Re: Automating your terrarium [Re: Jorsher]
    #6613219 - 02/26/07 03:13 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

In circuit programming is the way to go. Using a chip burner ends up being a hassle, especially for development, IMO.


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Re: Automating your terrarium [Re: fastfred]
    #6613261 - 02/26/07 03:23 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

I'd buy one :laugh:


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Re: Automating your terrarium [Re: illahee]
    #6614612 - 02/26/07 08:45 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Sure, I'm making a second bluetooth one that I won't be needing. I'd rather give details and a price once everything is done.

The board I'm using is called an arduino, uses an atmel avr microcontroller, usb, and has a bootloader. Basically, when the chip is reset it can be programmed over USB. This way there's no need for external programming software.


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Re: Automating your terrarium [Re: poke smot!]
    #6615305 - 02/27/07 12:00 AM (4 years, 11 months ago)

i'd buy one, considering that the closest thing is for commercial hydroponics systems, and cost thousands of dollars.

how much are you thinking on selling those for??


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: shroomsynergy]
    #6616892 - 02/27/07 01:10 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Price varies. Each humidity sensor costs $30, and more outlets require extra hardware.

Right now I'd estimate a total of $250 for basic (usb, 2 switched outlets and sensor) to $400 for something more advanced (bluetooth, 4 switched outlets, 2 humistors, extra temp. sensors, etc).

I would also imagine prices to go down were there enough interest in these and I were to get PCBs fabricated. In that case, it'd be possible to do wireless cheaply.


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: poke smot!]
    #6640451 - 03/06/07 04:28 AM (4 years, 11 months ago)

not much more to say than great work!

with a little extra work, you could probably have this scalable to greenhouse or small commercial grow levels. e.g. you could add inputs for reading dissolved components in feed solutions and make the interface look fancy with some graphics. or you could add photodiode feedback so larger growers could get some measured feedback on bulb output. could improve the photodiode accuracy by sticking bits of filter over the sensor to remove most of what wasn't on the spectral absorption peaks of the plants. just thinking aloud....

Olimex seem to have pretty good prices on small scale PCB production. They're in a bit of a weird location, but I've ordered from them before and had no problems.


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: magicfluff]
    #6640971 - 03/06/07 09:48 AM (4 years, 11 months ago)

I did find a PCB producer which meets my needs/budget, but with pcb's there would also be a bit more assembly required.

Lots of different types of sensors could theoretically be added, but at this point I'm focusing more on getting something finished that is for mycology-like purposes.

I'd like to make a version that runs independent of a PC. This would cut back costs for one thing.


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: poke smot!]
    #6641205 - 03/06/07 11:10 AM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

poke smot! said:
I did find a PCB producer which meets my needs/budget, but with pcb's there would also be a bit more assembly required.

Lots of different types of sensors could theoretically be added, but at this point I'm focusing more on getting something finished that is for mycology-like purposes.

I'd like to make a version that runs independent of a PC. This would cut back costs for one thing.




Yeah, in a lot of ways I'd prefer something that didn't involve a PC.

For a stand alone unit you'd need to think about what you want to be variable and monitored.

One thing you'd probably want automated is air exchange, so the terranium is aerated through the day. You could do that by adding some sort of CO2 / O2 sensor. I did a quick google and found a CO2 sensor for around $20. http://www.futurlec.com/Gas_Sensors.shtml

But I mean, to save money, just roughly guessing at the fanning frequency would be fine. Everyone does it that way at the moment and it works okay. So you'd want an option for the number of fan on times per 24 hour cycle maybe, and how long each should run for.

Then you'd obviously want temperature. It'd be nice to have two preset buttons maybe. Then humidity and that should be about it, apart from maybe lighting, which you could even do a quick LED kit for or use some cold cathode lights.

One thing that would be cool is if the unit could function outside as well, so outdoor grows could have their humidity and temperature recorded maybe in a datalogger / warning mode. A cool sensor for that would be a couple of those water content probes you can get for plant pots that could be stuck into the grow area to monitor the soil and watch out for it getting too dry. Maybe you could even add a few at layers as you add the grow so's that water content in a 3D patch could be monitored.

Perhaps these temp/RH sensors are little too expensive, $30 is quite a bit. Maybe the lower humidity accuracy version would be okay. 95% 100%, I doubt the shrooms would be all that bothered. You could always build a bias into the humidifier circuit such that it stays on slightly longer than it should after reaching 100% humidity on the sensor to bias it towards a positive error. The only negative of that would be a slight increase in the possibility of puddling and slightly more energy use.


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: magicfluff]
    #6702483 - 03/23/07 08:09 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)


"The black box"

Once I'm done the software, I might spend some time cleaning up/updating the "Automation" section of the main site (shroomery), so that all of the separate threads discussing pros/cons of automation, what's available, etc. As it is there's a fairly limited amount of information on the main page.


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: poke smot!]
    #6704541 - 03/23/07 08:37 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

mmmmmm.... Automization:)


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: Helge]
    #6704693 - 03/23/07 09:24 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

holy fuckin sique:D


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: poke smot!]
    #6741633 - 04/03/07 09:10 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Poke Smot, can you tell use more information about the system?
I'm specifically curious about what humidity sensor you used in your design, what temperature sensor. That kind of thing.

I've been working on a similar automation unit myself, albeit using a PIC instead of atmel's AVR. I've been contemplating adding the same bluetooth chip into my design, but I haven't gotten around to it as of yet.

Anyway, it'd be great to get some more info,

Kind regards,

Erik006


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: Erik006]
    #6745567 - 04/04/07 08:24 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

From my site,
Quote:

Two 2A solid-state relays, two 20A electromechanical relays; Fused outlets.

Two SHT11 digital humidity/temperature sensors

One internal thermistor, three extra external thermistors.

Arduino BT board, using a bluegiga bluetooth 2 modem.




The SHT11's do 12/14-bit readings, which make for more precise readings than with the thermistors.

Bluetooth is not really 100% necessary, but makes for easy wireless integration, while also transparently implementing pairing/passwords, encryption, and data reliability.

There are a few low-baud (2400bps) modems that are cheap - ones from radiometrix used for telemetry purposes. The problem with these is the need to code for reliability and security. Whenever you add wireless, along comes susceptibility to outside interference, etc. Not to mention the cost, if a computer is available nearby then it would not be necessary.

To give you an idea of the difference between the avr's 10-bit adc hooked up to a thermistor in a voltage divider:



This is about 0.2 degrees F steps, in the above pic manifested as jagged lines. The SHT11's readings are much more resolute:



Btw, that bit of software isn't complete yet, but the pictures should give you an idea. You get what you pay for, too... A parallax 28018 (a DIP breakout board with the SMT SHT11 and optional pullup resistors, is $30 from mouser.

Hope that helps.


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: poke smot!]
    #6747416 - 04/04/07 04:22 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Very nice work, poke smot!

It seems that this could be made cheaper by abandoning the arduino bt board, since that is a fairly expensive board. (I recall it being on the order of 140$ US at sparkfun)

Why did you choose this board? Ease of coding? Less hardware design? Both?

If the price could be brought down to within of the amateur, i'm sure it would be great for the community. It is possible to use the "regular" arduino board, which saves you about 100$.

Erik006


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Edited by Erik006 (03/21/08 07:54 PM)


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: Erik006]
    #6749971 - 04/05/07 08:55 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

It is possible to use USB. That was the original plan :smile:

Once discussions got going with an interested friend, it was decided that bluetooth would be appropriate for the setting in which this particular prototype would be being used, as a computer was too far to run a cable.

At that point I had been playing with the arduino for a bit, and realized I needed an extra one for another project, anyway. So, I ordered another arduino NG (with USB) ($32), and to that added a bluesmirf modem from sparkfun ($60).

After fooling with that and having more inquiries into bluetooth-enabled devices, I noticed that there was an arduino BT with bluetooth onboard, instead of usb. Also, this incorporated bluetooth 2 and was rated at 100m instead of 10m.

Once again at this point I had toyed with the boards more and found more uses, plus the ones I had were getting "used" and I wanted the "prototype" to be all new hardware. And, when selling these devices I had in mind not just selling some old beat up experiment, but rather a new product made of new parts.

The parts for a box with one sensor, USB, one 2A and one 20A outlet, costs under $100 in parts, however that's certainly not what assembled units would go for. The arduino BT is expensive due to the costs of design, and the initial investment needed to produce a batch. Plus, sparkfun sells them for much more because they sell a competing product (the bluesmirf).


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: poke smot!]
    #6796071 - 04/16/07 05:31 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

So, Poke Smot! any updates so far? How is the software coming along?

Erik006


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: Erik006]
    #6801905 - 04/17/07 09:05 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Looks pretty cool.. Hopefully everything works out for ya!!! looks like a ton of work!


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: Helge]
    #6820157 - 04/22/07 05:12 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

It is requiring a bit of programming to get everything working the way it should :smile:

Even so, mostly everything is done. Very soon :thumbup:


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: poke smot!]
    #7286551 - 08/12/07 03:19 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

I have a similar system , not 100% ready

Components you need

1: Olimex AVR-P28 (15$)
http://www.olimex.com/dev/

2: ATmega8 (3$)

3: SHT11 sensor (You can get a free sample)
http://www.sensirion.com/en/02_sensors/03_humidity/00_humidity_temperature_sensor/02_humidity_sensor_sht11.htm

4: rs232 cable

-- That will get you started (you will also need a programmer)
-- The program i run just measure temp/humid and prints that to a serial terminal
-- if temp gets over 30C a red led goes on.

Now you need some relays to control fans etc.

Why make it harder than it has to be?
If anyone wants the code (BASCOM-AVR) i will give it out for free.
I am putting up a site with full instructions how to make a CHEAP system that does the job =)

Peace out


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: kunghenke]
    #7287587 - 08/12/07 12:29 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

awesome


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: kunghenke]
    #7292171 - 08/13/07 07:23 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Way to go.

What I had in mind was bringing this technology to people who want the advanced aspects of computer control, without needing to know how to code. Simplistic solutions like dumping readings to a terminal seem unneccesary - If I want a digital readout I'll get a hygrometer. The idea behind computer-control is to have more intelligent switching than a hysteresis-style thermo/hygrostat can provide.

I'm currently working on a stand-alone version of this which is for those people who say a computer isn't neccesary. This is the version I've planned as open-source. To see the progress of this, check the forums on my site (link). There is already some good information for those who want to build their own.

I have noticed, however, that these people are few and far between.

See also, this thread:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6862020

Edit: the sensirion free samples are for surface-mount sensors. So, do not order one unless you know the implications of connecting one. It's small!


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Edited by SheetRooms (08/13/07 07:36 PM)


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: poke smot!]
    #7354841 - 08/31/07 03:38 AM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Got a alpha version of the PC program ready.

Screen shot



Still lots of things to do.

Next thing i will work on is a web cam interface to make time lapse movies =)

The program is coded in Delphi 7, this code is also open-source..

Thinking of putting it on sourceforge.

Will probably do a Linux version to =) Kylix is cool.

Peace out =)


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: kunghenke]
    #7355058 - 08/31/07 06:49 AM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Cool!

kunghenke, would you consider developing your software to use an open-source protocol? I intend to make these details available open-source and some of it is already available on my forums here.

My idea with this has been that, my software is written for windows PCs. Another person is participating in this style to produce a Mac version, so why not have a unix version?

The standard is designed for devices using a microcontroller, as the goal is not to depend on the PC for continuous operation.

With an open protocol, the end user may choose which software they would like, and optionally may build their own hardware conforming to this spec. The end goal is to have a low-cost design suitable for hobbyists.


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: poke smot!]
    #7355379 - 08/31/07 09:15 AM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Do you think you could add a CO2 monitor in order to activate fresh air intake?


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7355634 - 08/31/07 10:18 AM (4 years, 5 months ago)

I'm working on that actually :smile:

I have a couple co2 sensors from futurlec, though they require some additional amplification circuitry to boost the signal to something readable by my devices.

Once I have them working, though, I'm not sure of what would be the best settings to use. What would typical co2 concentrations peak at? At which level would the "threshhold" be best? I'll have to do some investigating once I have them working.


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: poke smot!]
    #7356139 - 08/31/07 01:06 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Look at GGMM, it lists the preferences for each species. Typical range is 1000-2000ppm. The level varies with the part of the cycle you are in. It would have to trigger a plethora of outputs associated with taking in fresh air. At the very least; a fan, an in-duct fogger, and a chiller coil or heater.

I'd like a sensor for the spawn incubation room as well. One that can read up to 10000-20000ppm, or whatever OSHA says is the maximum.

I'm building a farm right now. Should be producing 500lb/month in a month or two. Expecting to scale up real fast. Should be producing 1000lbs/week in two years.


I know you want to make it open source, but someone else could patent what you are doing and then sue you in the future. With all the documentation you have with dates, you would likely succeed if you fought it... and all the legal fees you endured would have to be paid back. You could avoid any expense, easily, by getting a patent first.


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7356184 - 08/31/07 01:22 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Patents and patent attorneys are expensive, and I'm poor, which is why I've chosen to keep this mostly a hobby. The open-source part will be limited in its scope, also the terms it is released under do hold some legal weight. It is my understanding that this is what prevents people from patenting public domain works.


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: poke smot!]
    #7358538 - 09/01/07 09:49 AM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Trademarks are free. If you name the product line you can get a trademark.


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7359130 - 09/01/07 02:33 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Isn't a domain name, somewhat of a trademark or protection from others creating a business/product by the same name, if it is similar in industry/etc?


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Offlinekunghenke
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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: poke smot!]
    #7361648 - 09/02/07 11:43 AM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Sending sms someone said.
Its possible , infact not even hard =)
Here in nice sweden i send sms free so hooking up a old 3310 to the server would be nice. That will be done after web-cam/time laps =)


http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html

There is the license i will release everything in. I think i will use v.2 of gpl...

By release everything under GPL nobody can "steal" your code and make money from it, well they can use the code but MUST release their code under GPL.

I got myself a web-cam today so here is a picture =)



Shouldn't be to hard to make time laps movies.
What will be a good interval?
1 minute, 10minutes?


The sht11 is very small. i didn't do that myself , my friend works at a mobile manufacture and they got just the right tools for small components. When i ordered the sht11 it took almost 2 weeks for me to get it, but my friend ordered a sample to work on a Thursday And got it Monday morning.

Tomorrow I'm free so i will just smoke bong and code =)
Cya





EDIT:

Yet Another Environment Control System
Project Created on Business days in queue Status
yaecs (yaecs) 2007-09-02 20:59 0 Pending Review

Created a project on sourceforge .. 2-3 days before i get answer...


Edited by kunghenke (09/02/07 12:53 PM)


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: kunghenke]
    #7369567 - 09/04/07 11:17 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Oh, I forgot to update this thread accordingly with the progress over the months. Admittedly, I haven't been doing too much at all lately due to life catching up with me.


(older pic of completed bluetooth version)


(log viewer)


(automation settings)


(prototype LCD computer-less version)


(prototype status screen readout)

Motivation, motivation...


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Offlinekunghenke
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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: poke smot!]
    #7373341 - 09/06/07 12:00 AM (4 years, 5 months ago)

OK they approved the project =)


Subject: SourceForge.net Project Approved
Your project registration for SourceForge.net has been approved.

Project Information:

Project Descriptive Name: yaecs
Project Unix Name: yaecs
CVS Server: cvs.sourceforge.net
Shell Server: shell.sourceforge.net
Web Server: yaecs.sourceforge.net

Its now in planning/design
Since my code is ugly (does it´s job) i decided to start from zero
This project is not only for growing mushrooms.
It can also be used to grow other things.
Be used to monitor frogs,snakes etc.

It should be modular built so you can use it as you want.

Anyone with coding skills or electronic skills can join as admins
Let´s all work together and make this work =)

As i see it we are a bunch of stoned lazy skilled people =)


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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: kunghenke]
    #7373779 - 09/06/07 07:31 AM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

kunghenke said:
As i see it we are a bunch of stoned lazy skilled people =)




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InvisibleMonstroniuM
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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: poke smot!]
    #7376178 - 09/06/07 07:40 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Wish I had enough going on to need one of these. One day...


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Offlinetheredone
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Re: Automating a terrarium [Re: poke smot!]
    #8766661 - 08/13/08 05:50 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

man ive been looking for something like this for ever. is it possible to get the schematics and maybe a walk through on how to do this it would be interesting to add other variables like high or low pressure and maybe temps from out side because all those things directly affect what goes on inside. great work though


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