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 VampireSlayer
killing ghosts,zombies andvampires forlife
 
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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 Psilocybin as an antidepressant.
#6465051 - 01/16/07 06:38 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Why is it that Psilocybin is illegal? We all know it binds to seritonin receptors in the brain, much like antidepressants like MAOI's and SSRI's. We all know that after taking mushrooms day in and day out that the effects are much less of a scatter brain type of effect where psilocybin actually makes you concentrate better and become laid back and happy.
Have you heard of the health risks that antidepressants have on a person? The list is pretty long, where as the reported side effects of the mushrooms are alot less drastic (as far as current research has shown). The most shocking thing about MAOI's and SSRI's is that some of the side effects are depression and suicide. Doesn't that contradict the point of using them? The thought of suicide and depression simply aern't there with mushrooms.
Leaders of the world need to start realising the potential in psilocybin. They have been held back by all of the propaganda when they could possibly be curing many illnesses. It is sad but maybe some day they will realise wha they are doing wrong and do some serious research on the chemical.
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I Don't come to fight flesh and blood but spiritual wickedness in high and low places
Edited by Pikashroom (01/16/07 06:39 AM)
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DuNeRaVeR
Sound conciousness
Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 12,238
Loc: The land of Ports. 
Last seen: 9 hours, 29 minutes
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 Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: VampireSlayer]
#6465056 - 01/16/07 06:42 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Shrooms make me giggle. BUT, under the wrong condition or Wrong use You can end up in a very bad state. They are illegal because someone along the way abused them. just as any other law was created.
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He who looks outside dreams, He who looks inside awakens.
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I make music with my computer, Click here for my Soundcloud Old project:www.myspace.com/psychoactivesynth
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pscyanescens
The Raindancer
Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 1,338
Loc: Sierra Nevada foothills, ...
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: DuNeRaVeR]
#6465090 - 01/16/07 07:03 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Are you saying that there are people who don't abuse pharmaceutical anti-depressants? I know plenty.
As for an anti-depressant i get the same effect. Even days after eating mushrooms, i feel like i am more happy.
Long term effects and tolerance may have something to do with it, as well as psychological effects. If you ate mushrooms everyday for its use as an anti-depressant, you will have quite a tolerance and your brain will start feeling like mush. Also there is HPPD disorder causing flashbacks, to be considered. I don't know if this has been proven yet with mushrooms, but i know i have heard from people that swear they get mushroom flashbacks.
As for an mushrooms being an anti-depressant..... I wouldn't say so if you were in the wrong state of mind. For example, after a close relative dies, or you break up with your girlfriend, or you dog gets ran over. Mushrooms have been known to intensify feelings, and if you already feel like shit, mushrooms have the potentiality to increase those feeling tenfold.
I remember crying like a baby when i stepped on my acoustic guitar and it snapped in half while i was high on shrooms. Flash backs of every song i ever played on it, and everything. However i got over it quickly, i can't say it ruined the trip, but was not pleasant at all.
Bubba keeps me happy when i am high
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"With an abundance of Cyanescens... i would never touch another Cubensis again."
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DuNeRaVeR
Sound conciousness
Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 12,238
Loc: The land of Ports.
Last seen: 9 hours, 29 minutes
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: pscyanescens]
#6465097 - 01/16/07 07:06 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Anti-depressants don't make you visually hallucinate.
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He who looks outside dreams, He who looks inside awakens.
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I make music with my computer, Click here for my Soundcloud Old project:www.myspace.com/psychoactivesynth
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crimsonblood
It's no fun tillsomeone dies
Registered: 01/03/07
Posts: 66
Loc: Sydney , Australia.
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: DuNeRaVeR]
#6465101 - 01/16/07 07:07 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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i like your point, but there are people who have suicided on mushrooms and gone into deep depression from using them, and i guess SSRI's and MAO's dont make you trip...
i couldnt imagin walking around tripping all the time id go nuts..
but yes antidepressants can cuase some serious side effects to.
and i guess there illegal from people abusing them, and they are strongly mind altering, couldnt even imagin trying to drive a car tripping but the same thing goes for alcohole and other psychoactive subtances.
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zootroid
Stranger
Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 396
Last seen: 14 days, 1 hour
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: pscyanescens]
#6465186 - 01/16/07 08:03 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
pscyanescens said:
Are you saying that there are people who don't abuse pharmaceutical anti-depressants? I know plenty.
As for an anti-depressant i get the same effect. Even days after eating mushrooms, i feel like i am more happy.
Long term effects and tolerance may have something to do with it, as well as psychological effects. If you ate mushrooms everyday for its use as an anti-depressant, you will have quite a tolerance and your brain will start feeling like mush. Also there is HPPD disorder causing flashbacks, to be considered. I don't know if this has been proven yet with mushrooms, but i know i have heard from people that swear they get mushroom flashbacks.
As for an mushrooms being an anti-depressant..... I wouldn't say so if you were in the wrong state of mind. For example, after a close relative dies, or you break up with your girlfriend, or you dog gets ran over. Mushrooms have been known to intensify feelings, and if you already feel like shit, mushrooms have the potentiality to increase those feeling tenfold.
I remember crying like a baby when i stepped on my acoustic guitar and it snapped in half while i was high on shrooms. Flash backs of every song i ever played on it, and everything. However i got over it quickly, i can't say it ruined the trip, but was not pleasant at all.
Bubba keeps me happy when i am high
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashback_%28psychological_phenomenon%29
"There is a strong emotional component to memory as well, and flashbacks can occur as a rush of feeling, emotions, and sensations that are a part of re-experiencing past trauma."
"When it occurs involuntarily, the flashback may be due to a disorder such as post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), such as in cases of remembering a war trauma or sexual abuse trauma, or Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder, and may be related to the use of psychedelic drugs."
I get "mushroom" flashbacks. Not a full blown mushroom trip by any means, but I get all of the emotions/feelings carried along with my bad experience.
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus
Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: VampireSlayer]
#6465193 - 01/16/07 08:06 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pikashroom said:
Why is it that Psilocybin is illegal? We all know it binds to seritonin receptors in the brain, much like antidepressants like MAOI's and SSRI's. We all know that after taking mushrooms day in and day out that the effects are much less of a scatter brain type of effect where psilocybin actually makes you concentrate better and become laid back and happy.
Psilocybin absolutely DOES NOT make you 'concentrate better'. You should not be using psilocybin daily, it's just common sense man.
The effects of psilocybin are not like MAOis or SSRIs, I do not know where you are pulling this from? MAOis inhibit your supply of mono-amine oxidase and prevent you from reacting serotonin out of your brain (increases serotonin reservoirs...). SSRIs inhibit re-uptake of serotonin (increases serotonin reservoirs...). Psilocybin is a serotonin receptor agonist, which means it will send signals to the serotonin receptors- it does not up serotonin reservoirs.
Quote:
Have you heard of the health risks that antidepressants have on a person? The list is pretty long, where as the reported side effects of the mushrooms are alot less drastic (as far as current research has shown). The most shocking thing about MAOI's and SSRI's is that some of the side effects are depression and suicide. Doesn't that contradict the point of using them? The thought of suicide and depression simply aern't there with mushrooms.
The psychological side effects of psilocybin make the drug UNSUITABLE for daily use. Thoughts of suicide are absolutely possible with psilocybin.
Quote:
Leaders of the world need to start realising the potential in psilocybin. They have been held back by all of the propaganda when they could possibly be curing many illnesses. It is sad but maybe some day they will realise wha they are doing wrong and do some serious research on the chemical.
You need to stop and think for a moment before you start suggesting psilocybin in such an abusive context. You are no better than the average pharmacist if you start recommending psilocybin as something to escape reality and cover up pain.
The power of psilocybin is the power to analyze yourself and to understand your problems, so that you may correct them. The 'high' is no better than an SSRI's high if you are only using it as such.
If you are using these drugs anywhere near the frequency you are recommending, I suggest you SLOW DOWN. At least, if you ever want to develop a positive relationship with these drugs.
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Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.
The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
Edited by ExplosiveMango (01/16/07 10:51 AM)
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MotorCityMadman
Rubberfan andFunketeer
Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 202
Loc: Motown (State of Mind)
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: DuNeRaVeR]
#6465237 - 01/16/07 08:24 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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My friend has had full-on, superimposed vortex pattern visuals when she misses a dose of her antidepressant. usually happens if she misses it, goes to bed, and wake up in the middle of the night for some reason. She couldn't find her way to the bathroom without help!
I do wonder if a once- or twice-weekly 1.0-1.5 g dose would work as an antidepressant.
I'm not talking about for people currently in the middle of a severe depressive episode, but more for people with chronic dysthymia.
I know that such a dosing regimen has kept a friend of my friend feeling pretty happy with life!
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zootroid
Stranger
Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 396
Last seen: 14 days, 1 hour
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The only way that mushrooms worked as an anti-depressant for me was my ego death trip. I was ecstatic for the first time after that to be alive 
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nycomyco
Stranger
Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 500
Loc: NY
Last seen: 21 days, 19 hours
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: VampireSlayer]
#6465315 - 01/16/07 09:02 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Every once in a while, I take a pinch of mushroom powder under the tongue before bed. It leaves me clear and contended the next day.
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To The Dome
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 creamcorn
mad scientist
Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: nycomyco]
#6465426 - 01/16/07 09:35 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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you'll never see something like psiloc(yb)in as medecine...
for the same reasons medicinal marijuana is so slow to catch on, as well as pharmeceutical anti-depressants being prescribed far more often than something like st. johns wort which is proven as if not more effective with fewer side effects:
patents.
you can't patent a naturally occuring substance. therefore you can't make money on it as easily. its got little to do with the leaders of the world and their politics and propaganda...
it unfortunate but true, money is at the root of these things... it takes money to research, money to test a product and bring it to market, and the only goal is to make money back and keep stockholders happy... and you thought medecine was to make people better?
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JstHereFrTheCake
Stranger
Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 189
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: creamcorn]
#6465593 - 01/16/07 10:23 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Creamcorn said it all. It's fucked up but it's true.
btw, I wouldn't have put that smiley face at the end of your post. 
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus
Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: creamcorn]
#6465674 - 01/16/07 10:43 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
creamcorn said:
you'll never see something like psiloc(yb)in as medecine...
for the same reasons medicinal marijuana is so slow to catch on, as well as pharmeceutical anti-depressants being prescribed far more often than something like st. johns wort which is proven as if not more effective with fewer side effects:
patents.
you can't patent a naturally occuring substance. therefore you can't make money on it as easily. its got little to do with the leaders of the world and their politics and propaganda...
it unfortunate but true, money is at the root of these things... it takes money to research, money to test a product and bring it to market, and the only goal is to make money back and keep stockholders happy... and you thought medecine was to make people better?
It's not so much to do with the drugs themselves, but the type of medicine they associate with. (many RCs could be patented just like any other drug, as could extraction procedures from natural substances)
Psychedelics cannot be used as easy-to-give cures, but they can allow psychotherapy to be phenomenally effective at actually helping a patient to solve psychological issues. This would mean medicine as a whole would be pulled toward a more cure-based way of thinking. This is where profit would be lost.
Without lasting depression, for example (a condition psychedelics have very good potential to cure) the pharmaceutical companies would lose billions in anti-depressant sales.
An even larger factor the medical leadership would likely be concerned with, is the population's confidence in self-treatment. Highly capitalist countries like to have a populace with as little self-treatment confidence as possible. Rather than provide easily available education and safety guidelines for many branches of medicine, a capitalist medical authority would generally prefer to maximize global dependence upon themselves.
Psychedelics represent the inevitability of the average man's eventual realization of his ability to self-treat. This is the type of insight that comes reliably while using psychedelics. Very unprofitable.
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Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.
The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
Edited by ExplosiveMango (01/16/07 10:54 AM)
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badchad
Mad Scientist
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 7,908
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: ExplosiveMango]
#6465958 - 01/16/07 12:17 PM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just a few things:
Currently available antidepressant therapies work mainly through increasing synaptic concentrations of serotonin and NE. Few work through direct activation of serotonergic receptors. It is also evident that the activation of serotonerigc receptors (second messenger cascades, activation of immediate early genes etc.) by psilocin and (related hallucinogens) is clearly different than that of endogenous serotonin.
There are some studies going on investigating the use of entheogens and hallucinogens in treating psychological disorders. (I'm sure most have heard of the use of MDMA in treating PTSD).
other than personal anecdote, (which, may carry weight depending on how you look at it) there isn't a lot of evidence to indicate the use of psilocybin in depression. And even if it were useful, there are a lot of others factors which might not make it a good choice.
For one, you would have to think of the consequences of "handing out" psilocybin via prescription. Assuming this would NOT occur, you have to look at its potential "real world" therapeutic use: in therapy, with a trained counselor. For psilocybin to be of use, it would take a lot of resources (multiple trips to the therapist, hours spent at each session to prepare for the drugs effects, followup sessions etc.)
Now look at the demographics of depressed individuals (and the sheer number). Financially, its not a good option.
While people "blame" pharmaceutical companies for profiting and providing a "quick fix" in pill form, there aren't a lot of more attractive options.
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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.
Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.
...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.
Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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sadspacemonkey
Stranger
Registered: 11/01/06
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: badchad]
#6466159 - 01/16/07 01:07 PM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said:
Currently available antidepressant therapies work mainly through increasing synaptic concentrations of serotonin and NE. Few work through direct activation of serotonergic receptors. It is also evident that the activation of serotonerigc receptors (second messenger cascades, activation of immediate early genes etc.) by psilocin and (related hallucinogens) is clearly different than that of endogenous serotonin.
While what you say is true to my knowledge, I fail to see what you're trying to prove by pointing out the difference between the two. OK, SSRIs clog up your brain with serotonin and psilocybin is shaped like serotonin and gets the receptors all happy- so? The fact that they work differently should encourage patients that don't respond well to antidepressants. In my experience, mushrooms are a great alternative to those meds.
Quote:
other than personal anecdote, (which, may carry weight depending on how you look at it) there isn't a lot of evidence to indicate the use of psilocybin in depression.
In my opinion, the subject is no where near exhausted. I don't think lack of convincing studies means much at this point.
Quote:
Assuming this would NOT occur, you have to look at its potential "real world" therapeutic use: in therapy, with a trained counselor. For psilocybin to be of use, it would take a lot of resources (multiple trips to the therapist, hours spent at each session to prepare for the drugs effects, followup sessions etc.)
This is what happens anyway. A doctor won't just give you pills and you're scott free until your refills run out. In every hospital/clinic/health center I've been to (and I've been to quite a few) it's a requirement that you attend regular therapy sessions while on medication, in addition to your meetings with a psychiatrist. The major difference would be the actual 'trip' if it's going to be regulated to that extent. Therapy sessions are usually 45 minutes to an hour.
Quote:
While people "blame" pharmaceutical companies for profiting and providing a "quick fix" in pill form, there aren't a lot of more attractive options.
I think there is an attractive option...inform the public of both the positive and negative aspects of mushrooms, and let them pursue it if they believe they it will benefit them.
Of course it's not that easy. It's just that tripping twice a month or so practically 'cured' me of horrible major depression that plagued me for over ten years. No, shrooms won't help you after a big bad incident, but when it comes to this chronic stuff that saps your will to live...I think people should know about it. Before I actively researched this stuff I was just terrified of mushrooms- I just thought they made you see scary shit, end of story. But now I'm endlessly grateful I read an article that inspired me to challenge my own incorrect opinion.
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HALFemptyJOSH
Magician
Registered: 09/01/03
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: badchad]
#6466179 - 01/16/07 01:14 PM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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the only way i could see psilocybin/psilocin as a prescription drug would be a psychologist providing for a psychological procedre much like hypnosis... other then that i don't really see how it can help in the medical world.
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the intensity of everything depends on how intense you think about it ~Broughton
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new2grow
Dust
Registered: 05/14/06
Posts: 947
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: sadspacemonkey]
#6466184 - 01/16/07 01:15 PM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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lots of shrroms and Alcohol can has led to suicides.....
But so has just alcohol......
I've never been suicidal on shrooms, in fact, i loose my mind on shrooms, and usually forget that i am even alive in the first place.
So if i odnt know that i even exist, how can i be depressed?
Yea shrooms make for a great anti-depressant.... they make for a great anything as a matter o factually.
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badchad
Mad Scientist
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 7,908
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: sadspacemonkey]
#6466243 - 01/16/07 01:39 PM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
sadspacemonkey said:
While what you say is true to my knowledge, I fail to see what you're trying to prove by pointing out the difference between the two. OK, SSRIs clog up your brain with serotonin and psilocybin is shaped like serotonin and gets the receptors all happy- so? The fact that they work differently should encourage patients that don't respond well to antidepressants. In my experience, mushrooms are a great alternative to those meds.
My comment was simply in response to the OP, who asked why psilocybin wasn't used in depression when it was structurally similar to 5-HT, and current antidepressants work mainly on 5-HT.
Quote:
sadspacemonkey said:
In my opinion, the subject is no where near exhausted. I don't think lack of convincing studies means much at this point.
You're correct, but in deciding on how to treat patients, usually it is best to form a hypothesis as to why something may work beforehand or to have some evidence to support a claim.
Quote:
sadspacemonkey said: This is what happens anyway. A doctor won't just give you pills and you're scott free until your refills run out. In every hospital/clinic/health center I've been to (and I've been to quite a few) it's a requirement that you attend regular therapy sessions while on medication, in addition to your meetings with a psychiatrist. The major difference would be the actual 'trip' if it's going to be regulated to that extent. Therapy sessions are usually 45 minutes to an hour.
I can't comment on clinical practice as I'm not sure whats required for a prescription. I was trying to point out that in the use of psilocybin, it would have to be monitored and someone present during it's use. (which is different and more labor intensive than allowing a patient to pick up and take a script at his/her convenience).
YES, I agree psilocybin has potential, but its my opinion it will not become mainstream or "standard" care.
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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.
Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.
...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.
Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Mourningdove
Stranger
Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 399
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: badchad]
#6466320 - 01/16/07 02:02 PM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes, you can use mushrooms for depression. But you must realize they are not a cure. They are teachers and will help you find a path out of depression. Antidepressants are clearly abused by people, but more so by profit driven doctors. There is a TV commerciat that says, "get you kids checked. One out of 5 is mentally ill. Fucking horseshit. This is a way to get everybody hooked on and fucked up by these drugs.
I can truely say that mushrooms will help depression. If I took these every month, I would not have gotten so fucked up by antidepressants. They give you mass confusion, side effects and will damage your liver after a long time. They are poor substitutes for natural medicine. Most doctors will try to keep you on these drugs for the rest of you life.
I will also suggest that half of the people on this forum who are taking antidepressants probably do not need them. This is how doctors today deal with any problem. New diseases like restless leg syndrome and ADD are created every year to make people richer. If you are taking toxic antidepressants, you should be trying to move on. They do work for some people, but not even half of the 80 million people who were told they have to take this shit by doctors.
"While people "blame" pharmaceutical companies for profiting and providing a "quick fix" in pill form, there aren't a lot of more attractive options."
Don't believe everything you are force fed...
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pokermush
Waterboardingmyself toprotect America!
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 475
Loc: Utah
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: ExplosiveMango]
#6466609 - 01/16/07 03:36 PM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks for the detailed info ExplosiveMango.
A couple things.
First, I've noticed that the anti-depressant effects seem to kick in AFTER the psilocin/psilocybin wears off. I feel invigorated and refreshed the next day, as if my brain's reset button was hit. I don't sense any residual effects of a drug, just that I emerge from the trip with an uncluttered mind that is not so prone to depression. These anti-depressant effects seem to last for a week or so.
Second, it isn't any kind of conspiracy. It's not about patents. It's not even about money. Shrooms got caught up with several other drugs in the crackdown on hippies '69-'71. Unfortunately no effort was made to treat drugs differently based on their safety or benefits. They remain illegal today because they are still associated (unfairly or not) with the image of the anti-establishment drugged out hippie, and because most researchers don't want to go to the trouble of getting DEA authorization for psilocybin research.
Credible scientific and medical research on the benefits and safety of shrooms is the best way to ultimately legalize it, and psilocybin's ability to treat depression might be the key.
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DIRTYMAN
Jesusdon'tcomethrough thecotton.
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 18,558
Loc: CZ NIGGUH
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: VampireSlayer]
#6466954 - 01/16/07 05:00 PM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pikashroom said:
Why is it that Psilocybin is illegal?
Because kids like you think that it's the cure for everything and end up hurting themselves.
Psychedelics aren't a cure all, they're a tool.
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I'm racist. http://k-k-k.com/
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus
Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: DIRTYMAN]
#6467264 - 01/16/07 06:21 PM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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With all the people saying what is and isn't a CURE... I think it's important to remember what a condition like depression actually is.
Depression isn't some magical chemical mistake in your body. There is nothing "wrong" with a person who suffers from depression. People have had a wide range of emotional dispositions for as long as there were people. Would you consider suggesting a person who was unusually happy all the time should take pills to become less so?
Depression is a relatively new way of thinking about unhappiness. It's not a particularly well defined thing in a spiritual sense, it more has to do with the human brain as a machine. It takes for granted that as soon as emotions and neuro chemicals pass a certain imaginary, statistically defined line, something is wrong.
The thing to realize is this way of thinking is a mandatory part of being depressed. If you do not choose to take this simple- theoretical- model as 'true' you cannot be 'depressed'.
Conversely, by believing you are depressed, you gain neuro chemical inertia in your depressed states. You associate with the idea of depression and personalize it, often losing sight of the fact that it is really just a single point of view about how to categorize a human's mental health.
Psychedelics throw the doors of perception open, allowing you to understand yourself in terms that make sense to YOU- not just some chemist working for the pharmaceutical companies.
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Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.
The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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MotorCityMadman
Rubberfan andFunketeer
Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 202
Loc: Motown (State of Mind)
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: ExplosiveMango]
#6468880 - 01/17/07 08:51 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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EMango, on my scanners you show up as 'incorrect.'
The fact is that a large number of people do have chemical imbalances in their brains that, over time, can lead them to experience depressive episodes (which are distinctly different from just "feeling bad" about something bad that happens to you, for example) or chronic dysthymia. Oh, and low self-esteem because they're constantly wondering "what the fuck is wrong with me? I must be broken."
If someone is not getting sufficient serotonin on a long-term basis, don't you think that is going to affect their outlook on life? If there's, say, 5% of people who are chronically not getting their serotonin fix (as opposed to everyone else who presumably are feeling chemical pleasure when they go through their day-to-day lives) why do those people just have to tough it out?
The idea that "people have had a wide range of emotional dispositions for as long as there were people" doesn't mean we should just let life-threatening depression take someone's life, any more than we let people die from E. Coli infections just because it's always been around.
Until I started antidepressants, I had severe depressive episodes at least every four years (sometimes more often) since 5th grade. Food tastes like cardboard, don't want to get out of bed, see no point in existence, days run together indistinctly.
Since I started antidepressants (getting on 9 years now), I have had one moderate episode of depression.
Now, I'm not addressing the issue of whether these meds are over-prescribed, but as far as I'm concerned, I *like* chemists at pharmaceutical companies.
And to my friends out there who suffer from depression: don't allow this "they're out to get us" paranoid attitude to prevent you from seeking help. I'm not promising that you'll find a great therapist like I did, or that antidepressants will work as well for you as they have for me, but my understanding of the neurochemical effects of depression is that each depressive episode makes it more likely that you'll have another, more severe one.
There are a lot of people in the mental health profession who have great personal integrity and really want to (and can!) help people.
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sirbojangles
h20
Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: inside a transparent eyeb...
Last seen: 3 hours, 13 minutes
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: VampireSlayer]
#6469011 - 01/17/07 09:54 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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if the patient is monitored and comforted by his doctor who is friendly and helpful during a monthly trip.
it might work
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus
Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Quote:
MotorCityMadman said:
EMango, on my scanners you show up as 'incorrect.'
The fact is that a large number of people do have chemical imbalances in their brains that, over time, can lead them to experience depressive episodes (which are distinctly different from just "feeling bad" about something bad that happens to you, for example) or chronic dysthymia. Oh, and low self-esteem because they're constantly wondering "what the fuck is wrong with me? I must be broken."
Sometimes people do have imbalanced neuro-chemicals to the point of impairment. I would know. For more than half of my life I have been "afflicted with depression". Clinically approved depression. It has been severe to the extent that I have lost jobs because of it, lost social status because of it, lost appetite and sleep for weeks because of it.
I have tried some of the wonderful pills they prescribe. Being high on drugs all the time was alright, sure they made me feel fairly numb all the time, and made me stop questioning trivial things like the meaning of life... (joke)
The thing about these pills, is the 'balance' they give you is fraudulent. Try leaving them.
The pills give you a greater neuro-chemical imbalance than you had before, effective as soon as you realize your brain can no longer "stand on its own".
Yes, some of us have spent long, long, long hours wondering "what the fuck is wrong with me?" and "why am I not just happier about life?". Yes it's inhibiting to be stuck places like this. Don't get me wrong, I suggest using medicine if you feel you cannot get out of the problem yourself.
I just don't suggest fooling yourself into believing SSRIs are medicine. They are a shallow high you can use to cover up your inadequacies, nothing more.
Quote:
If someone is not getting sufficient serotonin on a long-term basis, don't you think that is going to affect their outlook on life? If there's, say, 5% of people who are chronically not getting their serotonin fix (as opposed to everyone else who presumably are feeling chemical pleasure when they go through their day-to-day lives) why do those people just have to tough it out?
"Not getting sufficient serotonin"?
This is where we see how much hold this pharmacists' point of view really has.
Do you think SSRIs GIVE you serotonin?
(guess what? they don't, they inhibit your ability to produce it, they allow the brain to produce less and less, and still have adequate levels)
Do you think there is a 'hard limit' on the amount of serotonin you can produce naturally, just because you have dysthymia?
(guess what? there isn't... sure you'll get mentally tired the first few times you are happier than you're used to... but your brain will adapt)
Quote:
The idea that "people have had a wide range of emotional dispositions for as long as there were people" doesn't mean we should just let life-threatening depression take someone's life, any more than we let people die from E. Coli infections just because it's always been around.
Serotonin levels are not an infectious disease. They are a reflection of our emotional well-being, and a part of our internal balance. One which we may influence permanently through internal means.
Quote:
Until I started antidepressants, I had severe depressive episodes at least every four years (sometimes more often) since 5th grade. Food tastes like cardboard, don't want to get out of bed, see no point in existence, days run together indistinctly.
Since I started antidepressants (getting on 9 years now), I have had one moderate episode of depression.
Now, I'm not addressing the issue of whether these meds are over-prescribed, but as far as I'm concerned, I *like* chemists at pharmaceutical companies.
Yeah mine started in grade 4 or 5 as well... I have had at least 4 major depressive episodes every year since then, ending around a year ago. Major as in... to the extent that I could not move my body for lack of will to live.
I am not forcing myself into balance with chemicals however, I am allowing it through self-growth and self-improvement.
Psychedelics help, meditation helps, honesty and good intentions help.
Quote:
And to my friends out there who suffer from depression: don't allow this "they're out to get us" paranoid attitude to prevent you from seeking help. I'm not promising that you'll find a great therapist like I did, or that antidepressants will work as well for you as they have for me, but my understanding of the neurochemical effects of depression is that each depressive episode makes it more likely that you'll have another, more severe one.
We're talking about paranoia?
The stuff induced by intentional 'scare lines' like:
"each depressive episode makes it more likely that you'll have another, more severe one." (so you better take drugs I guess!)
I was brave enough to face my depression myself, and defeat it.
No paranoia here.
I wasn't afraid to try anti-depressants either...
I just also wasn't afraid to admit they did nothing to heal me...
Quote:
There are a lot of people in the mental health profession who have great personal integrity and really want to (and can!) help people.
Yes there are, and I intend to get there. I am just about to start my second degree, this one in neuro chemistry. Hopefully I will be able to kill off some of these old, worn out ideas, that keep people inhibited for their entire lives.
I know, the sad truth is some people will never be able to walk on their own. I think those people should have the option of using neuro-chemical crutches if that's what they really want. I just think they should have to recognize these drugs as such, rather than believe they are cured.
There are many paths to health. I personally do not think taking drugs unto death is one of them. It can be a helpful crutch to get people out of rough spots in times of weakness, but swallowing pills will just never be as good as growing personal strength.
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Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.
The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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matchbook
Photographer
Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 854
Loc: Washington
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: ExplosiveMango]
#6469689 - 01/17/07 01:00 PM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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I took less than a gram of mushies once, and I didn't experience any psychedelia, but I had the most wonderful lucid state of happiness and embrace of positivity that lasted for 3 days.
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KimPeek
Stranger
Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 26
Last seen: 10 months, 11 days
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: sadspacemonkey]
#8529220 - 06/16/08 07:58 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have to agree with sadspacemonkey, I personally have found psilocybin to be amazing therapy. I think more research should be done on it, because It may just be what people who are suffering from depression, social disorder, need to bring them some hope in life. I have found that low doses like 1 gram or half a gram have sharpened my mind and my understanding. It has also given me insight to the things that matter, like being able to look at your friends at the end of the day and tell them that you love them. Not in a gay way, but with a sincerity and understanding not to take life for granted. I cant even begin to share all the ways these mushrooms have helped me, even days after consuming I still feel sharper, energetic & confident . There is definitely something to mushrooms, they have been demonized by the government and the movements of the 60s & 70s. There is a real lack of understanding and respect for what these could do for people. There needs to be more research. 
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TheMushroomJesus
Invokes 'The Logos'
Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 2,691
Loc: Boston MA
Last seen: 8 hours, 30 minutes
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Quote:
MotorCityMadman said:
EMango, on my scanners you show up as 'incorrect.'
The fact is that a large number of people do have chemical imbalances in their brains that, over time, can lead them to experience depressive episodes (which are distinctly different from just "feeling bad" about something bad that happens to you, for example) or chronic dysthymia. Oh, and low self-esteem because they're constantly wondering "what the fuck is wrong with me? I must be broken."
If someone is not getting sufficient serotonin on a long-term basis, don't you think that is going to affect their outlook on life? If there's, say, 5% of people who are chronically not getting their serotonin fix (as opposed to everyone else who presumably are feeling chemical pleasure when they go through their day-to-day lives) why do those people just have to tough it out?
The idea that "people have had a wide range of emotional dispositions for as long as there were people" doesn't mean we should just let life-threatening depression take someone's life, any more than we let people die from E. Coli infections just because it's always been around.
Until I started antidepressants, I had severe depressive episodes at least every four years (sometimes more often) since 5th grade. Food tastes like cardboard, don't want to get out of bed, see no point in existence, days run together indistinctly.
Since I started antidepressants (getting on 9 years now), I have had one moderate episode of depression.
Now, I'm not addressing the issue of whether these meds are over-prescribed, but as far as I'm concerned, I *like* chemists at pharmaceutical companies.
And to my friends out there who suffer from depression: don't allow this "they're out to get us" paranoid attitude to prevent you from seeking help. I'm not promising that you'll find a great therapist like I did, or that antidepressants will work as well for you as they have for me, but my understanding of the neurochemical effects of depression is that each depressive episode makes it more likely that you'll have another, more severe one.
There are a lot of people in the mental health profession who have great personal integrity and really want to (and can!) help people.
I suggest you get off the anti-dep. You never needed them and you never will, you are just to lazy and weak to work through your underlying problems that make you feel the way you do.
--------------------
Once I rose above the noise and confusion, Just too get a glimpse beyond this illusion, I was soaring ever higher, But I flew too high; Though my eyes could see I still was a blind man;Though my mind could think I still was a mad man, I hear the voices when I'm dreaming
Masquerading as a man with a reason, My charade is the event of the season
And if I claim too be a wise man, well It surely means that I don't know
On a stormy sea of emotion, Tossed about I'm like a ship on the ocean
Carry on my wayward son, you will have peace when you are done
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theenigma
Dreamer
Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 112
Loc: The Astral Plane
Last seen: 30 days, 11 hours
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: DIRTYMAN]
#15795672 - 02/11/12 11:02 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
DIRTYMAN said:
Psychedelics aren't a cure all, they're a tool.
Psychadelics force you to face these parts of the ego body and can be a powerful tool in conquering them if used correctly.
But in the case they were legal and given by prescription... this would be a recipe for disaster. The majority of people in this world have no business anywhere in or around the rabbit hole... 
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horus_92
Stranger
Registered: 08/15/11
Posts: 40
Last seen: 14 days, 4 hours
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: theenigma]
#15801890 - 02/13/12 06:20 AM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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I don't know whether psilocybin is a good thing to take in the middle of a serious depressive episode. But it really eliminates the sorts of everyday neurosis we all have for at least a little while. I feel reborn after even a very light trip. Also if you have a history of depression and take it while not depressed it might give you some insight. It might do that even if you are depressed, only you can tell whether it's a good idea to do that or not.
And while antidepressants are somewhat effective it's disturbing how many of you write off talk therapy. Changing your thought-patterns physically changes your bran. Neurogenesis without side effects. That's not to say they don't have a place sometimes but the goal should be to not have to take anything.
Edited by horus_92 (02/13/12 06:22 AM)
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PrimalSoup
stronger than dirt
Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 3,144
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 11 hours, 7 minutes
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: VampireSlayer]
#15802479 - 02/13/12 10:20 AM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
I suggest you get off the anti-dep. You never needed them and you never will, you are just to lazy and weak to work through your underlying problems that make you feel the way you do.
Uh, dude, you're replying to a 5 year old post. Unlikely they'll read this...
 PS
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...................................................The ConstruKction of Light: king crimson
   
Primal's simple tested teks and projects:  Grain Prep Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Sobercolober
Tuft checker
Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 612
Loc: EU
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Re: Psilocybin as an antidepressant. [Re: PrimalSoup]
#15802610 - 02/13/12 11:04 AM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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I would go as far as to say a very small mushroom dose once very 2 weeks seems to have a positive effect for me. I take 10 liberty caps, I just feel mellow, slightly weird, creamy and smeary inside and out, a little tryptamine buzz, etc, no crazy visuals etc. Just feel everything is a bit more "real". No hangover and usually feel a bit more positive. It is a bit of an unpredictable drug though it has to be said. Responsible use is required.
If I do not feel like taking them, I simply don't and miss it for a while till I do fancy it.
Something to look forwards to and yes Psilocybin is a strange but beautiful drug.
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