Home | Community | Message Board


High Mountain Compost
Please support our sponsors.

Community >> Physical and Mental Well-Being

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop for:   eBay Ayahuasca, San Pedro   Amazon Terrence McKenna

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]
OfflineOneMoreRobot3021
punky jewster
Male

Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 60,572
Loc: new york city
Last seen: 15 hours, 24 minutes
Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet * 1
    #6268894 - 11/10/06 12:04 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Two things recently happened to me that have got me thinking. My brain is on fucking overload.  The first was going to a Halloween party at Alex Grey's art gallery. The raw, naked humanity of the whole experience was jarring in the most wonderful way. The night was a completely transcendental experience that left and leaves me glowing still.  The second thing that happened to me was reading The Teachings of Don Juan. It was not the entire book that even affected me so deeply so much as these two passages:

Quote:

Anything is one of a million paths. There you must always keep in mind that a path is only a path; if you feel you should not follow it, you must not stay with it under any conditions. To have such clarity you must lead a disciplined life. Only then will you know that any path is only a path, and there is no affront, to oneself or to others, in dropping it if that is what your heart tells you to do.  But your decision to keep on the path or to leave it must be free of fear or ambition.  I warn you. Look at every path closely and deliberately.  Try it as many times as you think necessary.

This question is one that only a very old man asks. My benefactor told me about it once when I was young, and my blood was too vigorous for me to understand it. Now I do understand it. I will tell you what it is: Does this path have a heart? All paths are the same: they lead nowhere. They are paths going through the bush, or into the bush. In my own life I have traversed, long, long paths, but I am not anywhere. My benefactor's question has meaning now. Does this path have a heart? If it does, the path is good. If it doesn't, it is of no use. Both paths lead nowhere; but one has a heart, the other doesn't.  One makes for a joyful journey; as long as you follow it, you are one with it.  The other will make you curse your life. One makes you strong; the other weakens you.

...


For me there is only the travelling on paths that have heart, on any path that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel, looking, looking, breathlessly.




It almost seems like the most obvious thing in the world - that to live happily, one MUST follow the path that, for them, has the most heart.  And yet it is so easy to get caught up in our day-to-day lives and just try and "get by" without really working towards achieving a sense of personal fulfillment. I know for me, in a bustling major metropolis where saving money is nigh-impossible, that often becomes the case.

For so long I've acted, behaved, worked, in a way that's kept in mind so many people outside of me. By this I mainly mean my family, and how they would perceive me.  And I think in a way it's been holding me back...they haven't held me back - I've been doing it to myself with them in mind.  What do I mean by that? Well.

Drugs are important to me.  I believe in moderation, and I would never allow myself to delve too deeply into other worlds or other mindstates, but for me it's a beautiful mystical thing. I was raised by a family that treated faith in anything with more than skepticism...they scoffed at it, rolled their eyes at it.  And I'm really the black sheep in that regard, and my faith - not in God, but in the Net of Being as I'll call it - has stemmed from my psychedelic experiences.  It's become a source of inspiration for me, that keeps me marching on happily towards whatever life brings, that I've had these experiences that have confirmed for me that my life as an organic being is a chemical experience, and that I can alter my consciousness - which is the most important part of being human, consciousness - by ingesting chemicals that exist naturally upon this earth as well as laboratory-produced substances such as LSD and MDx.

Quote:

"I can't preach Scientism cause I don't believe it. I can't preach Buddhism cause I can't understand it. The only thing I can preach is the felt presence of immediate experience which for me came through the psychedelics, which are not drugs but plants. It's a perversion of language to try to derail this thing into talk of drugs. There are spirits in the natural world that come to us in this way and so far as I can tell this is the only way that they come to us that is rapid enough for it to have an impact upon us as a global population."  - McKenna




I guess what's weighing me down and what has me thinking about this is that ever since Alex Grey's party I've been reading more and more articles on psychedelic research and on psychedelic philosophy and I've just realized that to me that is the path with the greatest heart. Not for everyone, but for me, I know it, I feel it. THis doesn't mean doing them constantly, it doesn't even mean doing them forever, but it means that I feel I want to be a part of that "scene" if that's what you want to call it. The "movement," however headless it may be.

I guess it's just really important to me that people be able to have these experiences. The illegality of it seriously pains me, and worse than that is the societal attitudes towards it. It means that when people do have these experiences, there is so much fear involved, because we live in a culture of fear.  I mean, the idea of the Police hangs over each and every one of our heads...it's insanity, truly.

And so I feel like I'm feeling this purpose coming on. Something I want to fight on behalf of. And hanging over that are the spectres of my mother and my sister.  With mysisterit's not as important but man, it really sucks I can't communicate to my mother at all the things I deeply believe in and support, the things that have shaped me into who I am, undeniably.  I can't do it for a couple of reasons. She's an older lady, not very healthy, and after years of my dad essentially running over her life like an out-of-control boxcar she is worn down. And she's supporting her kids the best way she can while our dad is just a prick, and I feel that she has so much stress now, and can barely get by financially on her own.

I want to talk to her and for her to know who I am at my core but I don't want to throw this on top of her pre-existing worries. I'm so afraid, and sure, that to her it'll be like I'm "throwing my life away to drugs" :rolleyes: or some such balhooey.  For me to talk to my mother about it two things must occur:

a) I must reach a point where I can articulate my feelings and my positions on entheogens clearly.

b) I can attain financial success in the field of my choice (I am a writer, a writer of fictions) - anything I write, whether it's about drugs or doesn't feature a single scene or mention of any drug at all, will be influenced and informed by my experiences, because they are what I draw great strength and inspiration from.

So, b) would come as a result of a), which would lead to me communicating with my mother about who I am and where I'm coming from. Which I would need to do because I really want to get involved in activism, to some degree, even if it's not organized activism and more a self-contained activism, on behalf of psychedelics.  I mean, I want to take part in panel discussions and conferences on the topic, I want to be part of a culture of intelligent people who see this as an important phenomenon, not just a bunch of kids who want to see swirly wirly shit on the walls (though of course, that is a ton of fun!) People who are being creative in their lives and whose creativity is an outgrowth of their psychedelic experiences and who believe that everyone should have the right to have those experiences without fear or shame.

I just want the people I love the most to know who I am.  I'm so tired of the negative stigma attached to the things that I believe in so strongly.  I'm so sick of being an in-the-closet user of psychedelics to certain people in my life.

This whole paths that have heart thing is killing me. Because it makes me want to live a life far less restrained than the one I've been living. And that statement has nothing at all to do with doing drugs, either, I don't want you to think it means I want to "do drugs more," because I don't, I just want to be able to not live two lives on two paths. Because there aren't two paths. There is one path, and I am walking it, and I have to stop fooling myself into thinking I can walk two paths at once.

And you know it's not just my family I think about it because I think about my girlfriend and how I love her and just want to love her till the end of time, and how her parents would be just as freaked out as mine if one day she was like "Yes, well Danny's going to Switzerland next month to take part in the yearly LSD Symposium," because fucking hell I want to be there, drinking whiskey with some of the greatest minds in the world, bandying ideas around a table late night in some bar in the midst of Basel.

What's funny is that all of this can be reduced to one thing, and it's the same thing that stares me in the face every day of my life: the need to write. Because if I can be successful, both monetarily and spiritually (and by that I just mean deriving happiness and fulfillment from life) by writing about these things and ruminating on them, then I can be the Man of Knowledge that I want to be, and not have to worry about what these people think because by leading a life of strength and discipline and walking the path that has heart, I can prove that I am doing the Right Thing For Me.

I just need to vent this out, get this out, and I didn't know anyplace better to put it as far as the Shroomery goes, so, here you go. Take it, run with it.

Quote:


Progress of human civilization in the area of defining human freedom is not made from the top down. No king, no parliment, no government ever extended to the people more rights than the people insisted upon. And I think we've come to a place with this psychedelic issue. And we have the gay community as a model, and all the other communities, the ethnic communities. We simply have to say, Look: LSD has been around for fifty years now, we just celebrated the birthday. It ain't going away. WE are not going away. We are not slack-jawed, dazed, glazed, unemployable psychotic creeps. We are pillars of society. You can't run your computers, your fashion houses, your publishing houses, your damn magazines, you can't do anything in culture without psychedelic people in key positions. And this is the great unspoken of American Creativity. So I think it's basicly time to just come out of the closet and go, 'You know what, I'm stoned, and I'm proud.'




--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.
-Erik Davis


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6268998 - 11/10/06 12:38 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Incredible post.  :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:

I think that you are more than capable of handling this issue without advice, so I will make two comments:

1.  You can do anything you want, so long as you are willing to deal with the consequences.  It may seem that the consequences of "coming out" will be modified by your achieving success, and they may be, but you do not need to wait for anyone's approval or permission.

If the consequences of living a double life, of holding yourself back from pursuing what is true and heartful FOR YOU, are greater than the consequences of revealing yourself (and I believe they are), then your choice is clear.  IMO, there are few things as toxic for those we love as our blaming them for our "unlived life."  Do them all a favor and LIVE!!  :smile:

2.  "I must reach a point where I can articulate my feelings and my positions on entheogens clearly."  You're already there.  :heart:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,607
Loc: underbelly
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: Veritas]
    #6269344 - 11/10/06 02:32 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I agree with Veritas here.  I also have found my heart in the neo-shamanic path. I suggest you keep reading further in the Castaneda books. They are a sort of road map for the warriors way of living. With out some attempt to live life as a warriors challenge a path with heart seems impossible.

Rock on dude. :thumbup: :mushroom2: :heart:


--------------------
     

“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker


"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno." 


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinegeokillsA
☼··· º¿° ···☼
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 16,497
Loc: city of angels Flag
Last seen: 3 hours, 54 minutes
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6269652 - 11/10/06 04:11 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OneMoreRobot3021 said:

I guess it's just really important to me that people be able to have these experiences. The illegality of it seriously pains me, and worse than that is the societal attitudes towards it. It means that when people do have these experiences, there is so much fear involved, because we live in a culture of fear. I mean [...] it's insanity, truly.

[...]

I really want to get involved in activism, to some degree, even if it's not organized activism and more a self-contained activism, on behalf of psychedelics. I mean, I want to take part in panel discussions and conferences on the topic, I want to be part of a culture of intelligent people who see this as an important phenomenon, not just a bunch of kids who want to see swirly wirly shit on the walls (though of course, that is a ton of fun!) People who are being creative in their lives and whose creativity is an outgrowth of their psychedelic experiences and who believe that everyone should have the right to have those experiences without fear or shame.

I just want the people I love the most to know who I am. I'm so tired of the negative stigma attached to the things that I believe in so strongly. I'm so sick of being an in-the-closet user of psychedelics to certain people in my life. [emphasis added]




This line of thought has been weighing heavy on my mind for the past many weeks.  I empathize with your yearning for freedom, your desire to foster and proliferate intelligent discussions on the subject of consciousness manipulation, altered perspectives, and the psychedelic experience in general.  Likewise, your sadness and disappointment regarding the way in which our culture has made the chemically-induced exploration of our own minds a subject of taboo, both legally and socially, is also something that is really hitting home at the current juncture in my life. 

It is the social stigma in specific that is so relentless and unforgiving, that at times I wish I could flood the world with so much joy that one could not help but spontaneously embody a tolerance for all the varied modes of living in this odd experience we call reality.  Unfortunately this is not so easy.  We are all products of our environment and respective upbringings, and to shake these influences is no easy task, requiring significant introspection and a willingness to evaluate the self in the midst of its darker, selfish, and otherwise distasteful ways of being which we are often taught largely to ignore (yet taught not often enough, to un-learn or reform into something more positive).

It is an interesting parallel, your conflict in the free and honest expression (of your inner desires, intrigues, experiences, and ponderances) with your mother in regard to psychedelics; as I am now thrown into a similar trial with a new love of my life.  Though time spent with this woman is some of the most wonderful I've yet had the pleasure to experience, she has great trouble allowing me to express or to discuss my own perceived implications of psychedelic exploration, its responsible use and its potential benefits as I've come to understand them through my own historical dabbling into such volatile yet viscerally exciting and rewarding realms of mental expanse, thought, and consideration.

What then to do?  I have chosen for the time being to walk this path - one of intentional shielding - where I consciously censor my own language and action, as a sacrifice for my partner's mental comfort.  It is not that I need her to experience these things as I do, but rather that (as you similarly stated) I want her to know me for who I am completely, and to be able to listen with an open ear to my most intimate musings and reflections.  I want to share myself freely with her, what I have learned from my experiences, and to bounce these philosophies off of her as I would enjoy doing with any close friend of intelligent and open mind. 

Yet, the fact remains that she may become visibly disturbed and indeed intolerant upon any mention more than in passing, of psychedelics, their use, or their effects.. particularly if I attempt to encourage introspection into her own reasons for the defensive and discomforted mindstate she manifests when the given topic enters open discussion.  She will proclaim that it is not her intention nor desire for me to change my way of being, simply that she is uncomfortable around the given subject matter.  In other words, that I can do as I please on my own time, so long as when I am around her I restrain myself from sparking up that joint or from introspecting upon last week's psychedelic journey.  But then, is this not in effect an elusive ultimatum, a veiled requisite for me to change my habits in order to placate her insecurity?  Afterall, my own time has become blurred into a manifestation of our time, as we spend so much of it together. 

I have no desire to ask her to leave my house should I wish to pick up the guitar and engage a toke, and on the same token I would not expect her nor would I pressure her to join me in said toke.  Likewise she has habits and tendencies of which I am not thrilled, but will tolerate.  I only desire for her to be comfortable with me for who I am, completely.  Acceptance, tolerance, and an understanding of differing perspectives, even if only in such a way as to understand that we are indeed different but that it is perfectly wonderful to be different.  For the moment I will continue to walk this path, and perhaps this woman I love will find a way to feel comfortable with my chemical experience and interest in the mind and all of its possibilities.  I must however simultaneously accept that she may never be able to comfortably understand these things about me.  Fortunately I find myself with much time to spend, and this experience on the whole is full of heart, teaching me new things about myself, about interpersonal interactions, compromise, and life at large. 


You know what? I'm stoned, and I'm proud! :heart:





Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,607
Loc: underbelly
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: geokills]
    #6269713 - 11/10/06 04:31 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

:frown:  We all want to be accepted for who we are. If someone is visibly upset by important aspects of our lifestyle it doesn't bode well at all IMO. Good luck. :heart:


--------------------
     

“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker


"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno." 


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineThe_Hobbit
Bilbo Baggins
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,382
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: Icelander]
    #6270416 - 11/10/06 08:27 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Hey. It seems to me that you simply want to be honest and open with your parents. I understand how psychedellics tie into this, but I don't really see why they have to be the conerstone of what you wish you express to them. I mean.. they are just the causal factor for tripping - the effect. It's the knowledge that you gain that's important. So, share your knowledge if you feel like it's the right thing to do. Just keep in mind that other people cannot simply accept things off the bat because there are boundaries. You have to be sensitive and careful to appreciate the magnitude of what you are saying. You are really asking alot of someone when you get into a deep philosophical discussion. So, take it 1 step at a time and make sure that each step is grounded.


--------------------
Smoking my hobbit leaf...
Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSubGen1us
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/26/02
Posts: 3,375
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6271231 - 11/11/06 05:29 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Ive been thinking about this alot too,

U have to realize u are truly free of the brainwash that we had when growing up.
Its hard to explain. i love our government because it keeps us relativly safe. People are brainwashed with laws. The thing u have to get around is majority of people are ignorant, I believe people are truly missing out on life becuase they get too caught up in the system. U are smart, wich means u have to do wat it takes to fight ignorance.

The thing i hate is i always hear drug abuse... and they try so hard and spend so much money in provention, wich is fuking wrong.

drugs have many different side effects at different doses.

ABUSE is wat they call it when u use a drug against wat the doctors proscribe it for. wich is bullshit.

People think if drugs are illegal they are bad. Thats just bullshit. they are ignorant.
mushrooms are illegal because people hear u hallucinate and want to get fuckt up, so they eat alot and freak out and need to get treatment.

its fuct up cause we go abuse-- then treatment.
when all along we should have just edgucated them on it.

I want to live life to its fullest and be able to use any drug i want. See, im smart, ill go out and research a drug and learn about it. They call it abuse but its not.
My goal is to educate people into living and not falling into the day to day grind just to get by. u got to look at the big picture and see wats important. See ur mom doesnt have the same outlook on life as u do. U use mushrooms responsibly as a tool. U HAVE THE RIGHT to do so. people always worry about getting in trouble for being high and doing drugs. they need to be educated. who cares if they see u on drugs, life goes on, ur just worried cause society has taught u to think its bad. they have to let it go.
OK do this, research a drug and learn about all its side effects.
doctors perscribe it for THis, this, and that. All off a sudden its abuse if u use it for anything other than wat its persribled for. But u know wat, i know the side effects and i want to use it for this. just like with mushrooms. They dont hurt u pysically. I eat 2 grams and my brain goes crazy thinking about everything in my life. IT is truley beneficail to me becuase im an asshole by nature, WHY? Mushrooms made me realize bad things about my personality that id like to change that i wouldnt have even realized. According to our law that is abuse. But I have the responsibility to educate the ignorant. So do u. Cocaine is illegal cause its crazy addictive.
that doesnt mean its bad, Too many people used the drug and go crazy becuause the addiction takes over, I used to call them weak minded people, they go get brainwashed by the chemical. laws are made to stop it. We need to get these laws changed for the people that will use it correctly. we shouldnt be punished because people are weak. Cocaine is such a useful tool if used correctly.

I get so sick of the brainwashing that goes on in this country and its keeping us from being free. If i know what a drug does and want to use it responsibly i should be able to. but out government just makes it illegal to try to fix the stupid people od'ing.

We need to fight this becuase its so fuckt up. I hope this next part makes sence.
People that are using the drug to get fuct up are abusing. the people that use it responsibly for a reason, (a tool)(medically) arent abusing. abusing=illegal
they are gunna abuse it if its legal or not. makes absolutely no sence.

Our government causes the ignorant people to think its bad by making it illegal.

problem is majority wins when it comes to voting and laws. We have to educate people.

Problem is majority of people are unintelligent and get brainwashed by propaganda,
basically if i had the a million dollars. I could make a commercial on tv that would play everyhour, talking about how mushrooms eat ur brain. Stubborn, ignorant people are majority and believe wat they see. They take the first thing they see and make it theyre truth.
iI cant stand this. I dont belive anything to be true untill ive seen 20 different opinions on the subject. I have faith in my judgement. I choose wat i belive to be true.

And u know wat Im always fuking right until u can prove me wrong. I spend so much time trying to make these people understand, but u cant change these peoples minds. Theyre right cause theyre right. they dont need proof.

Ignorant people stating wat they belive to be the truth.

See ur in a world Where u want to teach people the truth so bad.
But some people cant be taught.

unjust laws set about from ignorance.

people wasting theyre lives, getting all stressed out cause they didnt hit the goal at work. yelling at people.

I was brainwashed by a big company, i was young. I had to get all the units out, id yell at people to hurry and when they fuckt up id be a complete asshole.
I ate some mushrooms at work one day and it all became clear.

maybe this guy was slow cause they fuct him over so much he just didnt care anymore. he wasnt gunna slave himself for the company that was fuking him.

hell that guy that keeps fuking shit up. i hated him. but i realized. hey this guy would probley be pretty cool to hang out with.

these people understood.

mushrooms taught me that.

I want everyone in the world to be happy and live life to the fullest.

i was being an asshole and it was just hurting me. taking away my life.

i mean the fuking plant could burn down, but life goes on.

I understand now.


I got something to say about relationships too.

I was with my girlfriend and thoguht everything was ok, i was happy. but we broke up and i couldnt understand.

i had no job, no money, my woman left. my phone died, i couldnt buy gas.

I was at the lowest point in my life. This taught me alot....

something I would have never realized if i hadnt lost everything.

i wasnt happy.

but I was still alive.

i thought it was my girlfriend and i couldnt understand it.
I broke everything down and thought about everything in the relationship.

I have a whole new outlook on life.

I want to be happy and have fun. And realized if im getting into another relationship im gunna do everything different, becuase it was me, but it was also her.

We where brainwashed in a sence. Jelosy i realized is bad.
I notice alot of people in relationships and i feel sorry for them. They need to live.
but together they are missing out on life. U cant be controling. u know what, when ur young u need to live life and experience everything there is to offer. u cant see ur women talking to another guy and think shes flirting and get pissed. U have to let her live. its only right. And u have to live too.
u have to incorperate ur friends, make her friends ur friends and ur firends her friends. This must be done.
it got to the point where shed go out with her friends but i couldnt go. Id get pissed and didnt want her to go.
at this point it was to late.
I was faithful early in the relationship becuase i thoght thats wat was right. i passed up so much pussy. What i did was wrong. i was brainwashed. She was so jelous and heard stories about me cheating on her.

Guess wat thats life. she always had it in her mind that i cheated on her. Couldnt do nothing about it. In actualy she kept me from living cause i passed the pussy.
This be the truth " What they dont know dont hurt them" Im never gunna be jelous toward a waman again, but im gunna get mine too, its just right that we both get to experience the fullest life has to offer.
I belive thats the only way to have a relationship and to remain happy.

i mean u cant boss her around, tell her wat to do, (i call this being her dad)

becuase if she wants to do it shes going to, and if i get mad, she wont tell me. or lie.

i dont want this, i want truth, honesty.

u cant be controlling. and i dont really care if shes the jelous type becuase shes gunna realize, or leave. if she does oh well, shes not going to take away my precous life.

if i get the chance to get some pussy when im with her.
not passing it up
not fair to me.
but it might hurt her so noone is told.
as long as u dont tell anyone and mistress doesnt tell anyone, noone gets hurt.
and u know wat, she should do the same thing, cause shes only got 1 life too.
what i dont know wont hurt me. and thats a fact for anyone.
it may hurt to think about but who gives a fuck, dont think about it, life goes on.

if ur young, ur missing out on alot of life if u get into one of those controlling relationships, its just not healthy.

well shit, i got to goto work, i could spit out my philosophy all day.


--------------------
Rorschach: The thing you need to understand is that
I'm not locked in here with you......
YOUR LOCKED IN HERE WITH ME!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9UF1HsP0K0


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblekake
The answer to1984 is 1776.
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 2,778
Loc: The 66th harmonic
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6280995 - 11/13/06 10:43 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Robot, I wish we lived near each other man, we would make good pals, I think  :grin: I share your exact sentiments, and have for at least the past 4 years of my life.  I walk 2 paths-- it really pains me as well--and I know it is what is keeping me from accelerating toward my full potential as a human being.  That is why I am a member of Shroomery, because these issues are IMPORTANT to me and my life and my personal goals.

And you know what sucks?  There has always been a shade of doubt in my mind - that one day I'll shake this whole drug-phase and figure out it was all a bunch of hoopla.  :wink: That shade is undoubtedly a byproduct of that god-damned stigma that is embedded into our society.

And you know what else?  Each day, as my knowledge grows, as my social networks increase, as my experiences reiterate old truths and conjugate new ones, and my as original intuitions about psychedelics continue to solidify, that shade is nullified by more and more light.

I want to come clean about a lot of things with my parents as well.  I feel like I can't afford to wait - they're almost 50 and while still in good shape, we all know death can come at any time.  I feel like if I wait I will regret it, but I know if I don't express myself with full confidence and knowledge, they will think the same as you described... "throwing your life away to drugs".

I just want you to know, Robot, that I totally stand by you in these goals we truly share.  Life is too short not to be following the heartful paths.


--------------------
The answer to 1984 is 1776.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSimisu
taken by gravity
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 5,059
Loc: Israeli in
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: kake]
    #6281495 - 11/14/06 05:15 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

funny, that's kinda what i'd had in mind to say kake :tongue:

I on the other hand am following said "path" as best as i can, and i'm forthcoming about my interests to anyone anywhere! BUT, the issue for me is that i too have doubts about where this path might lead me (if anywhere at all?) will i forget all about this when i "grow up" or when i have certine responsibileties like a relashionship or kids?
and also, unlike OMR i don't really have the education to presue my interests directly and being that only FEW people around the world do the kind of work im interested in (psychodelic assisted psychotherapy or other such psychodelic studies) it takes a LOT of time and effort to reach a point where society would let me presue this :shrug:

that makes me discuredged to even try... but as for activisem and general mind set i'm pretty much where i want to be!

at the time when i was dealing with these issues and finelly came to the right conclustions for my self i read those same words OMR and it hit pretty close to what i had in mind at the time, it made it sound so simple and "fearless"!
as in "fearlessly the idiot faced the crowed, smiling" :tongue:
it makes sense but as someone mentioned already it also brings along many concesstions and should be backed up with a whole lotta acceptance :smirk:
cuz that's life for ya :grin:

on a side note; why wasn't this posted on your blog?!


--------------------
:mushdance::sanpedro::peyote::mushroom2: :heart: Shr:supershroom::supershroom:mery :heart: :mushroom2::peyote::sanpedro::mushdance:
      Visit & Support Free Spore Ring Earth and Canada
      :sun: Please help  spread  live Salvia Divinorum :sun:



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6283997 - 11/14/06 07:57 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

:hug:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibledemius
broccolilocks
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 36,612
Loc: the popcorn stadium Flag
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6284021 - 11/14/06 08:05 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

being honest with my mother about everything was a large and risky step, but I would not undo it. She may not understand the things I tell her or the things I do, but she at least understands where I'm coming from. She also understands these things haven't "messed up" my life, and quite the opposite.

You have the strength inside of you, but only do it if/when you feel it is right, because there will be no better time.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAnarchyz0r
Stranger
Male
Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 736
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: demius]
    #6284956 - 11/15/06 03:39 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

This is a great thread :heart:

At the moment, I'm having trouble with my girlfriend, and it's very difficult. See she's the best thing that's ever happened to me, apart from discovering entheogens, but she has this stigma attatched to her that seems to bite her every time I bring up anything about how I want to live a life which embraces psychedelic drugs. She knows I'm responsible, she knows I'm definitely not a slacker, but she's told me when she was young she promised herself she would never go out with a drug user. She also told me she knowingly broke it when she went out with me. She first threatened me with an email which asked for me to either choose her or drugs. I chose her.

Skip ahead a few months, a few years, and things are still very... touchy. She's told me that she has tried to think my way, that she has tried to educate herself, but her stance at the moment is if she catches me with drugs, she's gonna dump me. I think it's pretty damn fucked up and she needs to get her head straight regarding drugs. I just don't know what to do, or what to say. I feel like if I give her sites like erowid or any fact sheets she'll be intimidated and won't respond to it. However during an h2h over the phone recently she opened up and was "open minded" towards me telling her my experiences with drugs, but we haven't been on similar ground since.

This is one girl I do not want to loose, but entheogens are so sacred to me. Likewise, I don't want to change her, but what I seek is acceptance of what I do. I realise she fears the ability drugs have to change a person, but these entheogens I consume are my responsibility, my choice.

:yinyang: I just want her to be able to see all is fine here on the dark side of the moon :yinyang:


Edited by Anarchyz0r (11/15/06 04:54 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblekake
The answer to1984 is 1776.
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 2,778
Loc: The 66th harmonic
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: Anarchyz0r]
    #6287508 - 11/15/06 07:44 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

People like this usually embrace alcohol but nothing else.

I get the impression that people tend to think all drugs have similar effects to alcohol. People look/act fucked up, therefore they must be dumbing themselves while on the drugs.

For instance, someone who is a drunken mess barely realizes it, they may black out. They look like shit to a sober person. Equally, someone who is tripping balls looks totally fucked up. But in reality, they might just be so overwhelmed by feelings/emotions that they have trouble acting normal. To the sober person, the difference is minimal. To the subject of the experience, the difference is worlds apart.

Try to explain to her that you don't use them to get fucked up - and that this is where the stigma originates from... people who abuse drugs. Explain that they are tools for the right people.

I would tell her she should stop being such a pussy and try it herself or not judge you. No amount of reading will ever replace experience. She will never understand fully unless she tries it. If shes not willing to try it, then she has no right to judge you and you should tell it like it is and move on to someone who cares about YOU not about changing you to fit her selfish closeminded needs.


--------------------
The answer to 1984 is 1776.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAnarchyz0r
Stranger
Male
Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 736
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: kake]
    #6287774 - 11/15/06 08:58 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

kake said:
Try to explain to her that you don't use them to get fucked up - and that this is where the stigma originates from... people who abuse drugs.  Explain that they are tools for the right people. 

I would tell her she should stop being such a pussy and try it herself or not judge you.  No amount of reading will ever replace experience.  She will never understand fully unless she tries it.  If shes not willing to try it, then she has no right to judge you and you should tell it like it is and move on to someone who cares about YOU not about changing you to fit her selfish closeminded needs.




Well she knows I use drugs spiritually and have strong opinions against using anything to just get fucked up on, but so does she. I've always wondered what it would be like if she did actually give entheogens a go and let me guide her a bit, but really I love her too much to force her to enjoy what I do, she has to do that herself. I guess I just want acceptance from her and it's not like she is closeminded either, it's just she believes so strongly against her partner using drugs. I just want both of us to be happy, and the easiest way to do that is for her to be more understanding and let me be who I want to be, but still be with her. She has said in the past that if I want to continue using drugs I could, but we couldn't be together. I guess I just need some links to educated sites that don't put the bad rap on the issue and show them to her. Other than that, I don't know what to do :crazy:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineThe_Hobbit
Bilbo Baggins
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,382
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: Anarchyz0r]
    #6288545 - 11/16/06 02:50 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Make a choice. Logic might not work in that situation.

The best logic I can think of, however, is to say: look at me. I took those drugs that you never wanted your partner to take and I am still a good person; you still love me. That's the most important point I could think of.


--------------------
Smoking my hobbit leaf...
Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOneMoreRobot3021
punky jewster
Male

Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 60,572
Loc: new york city
Last seen: 15 hours, 24 minutes
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6288971 - 11/16/06 08:45 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Whooooooo-weee!  It's been a while since I posted this and I've been watching and reading responses in this thread and also having many discussions about this with my girlfriend and close friends and a bartender where I work named Frank Bango, who it turns out shares my passions for psychedelics - it's always good to find a kindred spirit.

Quote:

Veritas said:
2.  "I must reach a point where I can articulate my feelings and my positions on entheogens clearly."  You're already there.  :heart:




Thank you very, very kindly. :heart:

Quote:

Icelander said:
I agree with Veritas here.  I also have found my heart in the neo-shamanic path. I suggest you keep reading further in the Castaneda books. They are a sort of road map for the warriors way of living. With out some attempt to live life as a warriors challenge a path with heart seems impossible. 




I don't know that I would put it as such, as far as a "neo-shamanic" path. I shy away from isms, all I know is that there is a system of belief that builds around me just as a natural byproduct of my everyday existence in this reality that is, for all intents and purposes, a holy experience.

Quote:

kake said:
Robot, I wish we lived near each other man, we would make good pals, I think  :grin: I share your exact sentiments, and have for at least the past 4 years of my life.  I walk 2 paths-- it really pains me as well--and I know it is what is keeping me from accelerating toward my full potential as a human being.  That is why I am a member of Shroomery, because these issues are IMPORTANT to me and my life and my personal goals.

And you know what sucks?  There has always been a shade of doubt in my mind - that one day I'll shake this whole drug-phase and figure out it was all a bunch of hoopla.  :wink: That shade is undoubtedly a byproduct of that god-damned stigma that is embedded into our society.

And you know what else?  Each day, as my knowledge grows, as my social networks increase, as my experiences reiterate old truths and conjugate new ones, and my as original intuitions about psychedelics continue to solidify, that shade is nullified by more and more light.

I want to come clean about a lot of things with my parents as well.  I feel like I can't afford to wait - they're almost 50 and while still in good shape, we all know death can come at any time.  I feel like if I wait I will regret it, but I know if I don't express myself with full confidence and knowledge, they will think the same as you described... "throwing your life away to drugs".

I just want you to know, Robot, that I totally stand by you in these goals we truly share.  Life is too short not to be following the heartful paths.




kake - plenty of time for us, spinning around on this crazy globe, to intersect once more. I vividly remember meeting you, albeit not spending too much time together, at the NE2K5 gathering. It's great to see someone feeling the same struggles.

Lately I have been thinking about this issue in terms of my mother and the willful obliviousness she exists within in regards to my drug usage. I think she deep down knows I at least smoke pot, and just conveniently covers up the fact for herself.  And as I think more and more of my desire to share my beliefs and experiences with her, I am also thinking that perhaps for her, it is healthier to live with the illusion that I am her "innocent little boychik."  Maybe I want to tell her these things, but maybe it would be better for her not to hear them.  That's a real shitty situation right there.  She's going through so much, she's gone through so much, do I really want to shatter the veil and tell her that her baby boy is a voracious consumer of entheogens?

I continue to turn these things over in my head, to think about and process them, and in the meantime I'm reading more and more on psychedelics, writing more about them, and trying to firm up my position.  And I'm engaging in an active battle against the stigmatization of psychedelics in our society and the stigma against people who use them.  This leads me to engage in dialogues about them with people who have no/little interest in them, and these experiences are teaching me to communicate more clearly what I personally got out of entheogens and what I think other people (though I firmly believe they are NOT for everyone) can get out of them as well.

I wanna thank you all for taking the time to take part in this little dialogue. (Though, "dialogue" is from di- meaning between two, isn't it? So I guess the Shroomery's thread system makes for pan-alogues. :smirk:)  With all these stigmas we have to fight against, the Shroomery inevitably becomes, in the minds of the people I know and some that I love, "that drug website."  But you guys really mean the world to me, and it's a sacred thing to have a community of people who have all been deeply affected in their lives by these funky fresh molecules.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.
-Erik Davis


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinegeokillsA
☼··· º¿° ···☼
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 16,497
Loc: city of angels Flag
Last seen: 3 hours, 54 minutes
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: The_Hobbit]
    #6289042 - 11/16/06 09:04 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

hobbitcg said:
Make a choice. Logic might not work in that situation.

The best logic I can think of, however, is to say: look at me. I took those drugs that you never wanted your partner to take and I am still a good person; you still love me. That's the most important point I could think of.


This is in effect how I have explained my use to my family, friends, and my current lover. I cannot deny who I am, and I have grown to be the person I am through my experiences, many of which have included the use of various psychoactive substances. If one truly wishes to understand who I am, one must be able to understand my history, my interests, and desires. I showed my partner my first post in this thread, and even brewed some bhang (marijuana spiced milk-tea) to enjoy in the evening by her side. I can see that she is at least, trying to let me be me without restraint or imposed disapproval; and it is a great comfort to see that while being true to my own ideals, I have not indirectly caused my lover to pull away from me. There is indeed love here, and as an ol' hippie passed once said, love is all you need.

To get back to OMR's core topic here, there was at first some difficult for my parents to accept my disposition towards psychedelic exploration. They likely had suspicions of my use earlier on, but it wasn't until the last year of my high-school experience that I was able to confirm my way of being. Fortunately (or in retrospect, perhaps not so fortunately) for me, the decision was out of my hands, as it was my father who walked in early from a weekend road trip to find the kitchen smoky and the table adorned by a three foot glass smoking device many of us would call a bong. Though he was visibly upset, with him was a friend named David who is a fellow toker and who had joined my father on his weekend trip. David was a great help to calm my father's nerves during the ordeal, and while I was able to maintain my composure, I will admit I was quite rattled from the experience (in no small part because I was under the influence at the time and I am not one to seek out or instigate conflict).

So that night I went to see my mother who lived in a different house. The first thing I told her was exactly what had happened. I did not want her to hear it from my father, who would undoubtedly spin the story with all sorts of negative adjectives and fearful concerns. I laid it out straight and over the subsequent years have been able to engage in open conversation with her about why I partake in all sorts of substances ranging from marijuana to mushrooms to opium, what I get out of the experiences, and why I feel I can minimize the risks through disciplined moderation. Through this open communication, my mother and I have nurtured a reciprocal bond of trust between us.

My father has however not been so easy to accept my way, often poking a jive at my being a "stoner" or a quip about mushrooms in a seemingly inappropriate moment. He knows I do not appreciate such comments intended to ridicule, yet he has trouble controlling this behavior at times. I will note that it has improved over time. So I suppose the conclusion I've drawn through own experience is this: Better to be open, honest and secure, than to try to hide your insecurity and get found out in the midst of the act! I begin to wonder if the way in which my father found out about my hidden habits as opposed to the way I was open with my mother, has in turn played a hand in the relational difficulties my father and I have experienced since then?


--------------------

--------------------
··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙··
...π╥ ╥π...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinegeokillsA
☼··· º¿° ···☼
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 16,497
Loc: city of angels Flag
Last seen: 3 hours, 54 minutes
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6289089 - 11/16/06 09:16 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OneMoreRobot3021 said:

And as I think more and more of my desire to share my beliefs and experiences with her, I am also thinking that perhaps for her, it is healthier to live with the illusion that I am her "innocent little boychik." Maybe I want to tell her these things, but maybe it would be better for her not to hear them. That's a real shitty situation right there. She's going through so much, she's gone through so much, do I really want to shatter the veil and tell her that her baby boy is a voracious consumer of entheogens?



A worthy consideration indeed. My grandmother of many decades, who was born in Poland, gave birth to my mother in Estonia during the time when both the Nazi's and Communists were converging on the country, lost her husband to mobilization, lost her parents for over 30 years after the Communists shipped them to Siberia, and was finally able to flee to Sweden in the cargo hold of a ship with my mother of 2 years and two suitcases packed with the only worldly possessions she could bring.

These days she has much trouble living presently, and constantly gets caught in these visceral memories of the yesteryears. She is old-fashioned, and I do not believe that any amount of discussion could help her understand why I may choose to partake in substances that have been so negatively promoted and stigmatized in this country during her lifetime. Therefore, I will not tell her these things and I do believe it is better this way. For my grandmother's own peace of mind.


--------------------

--------------------
··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙··
...π╥ ╥π...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOneMoreRobot3021
punky jewster
Male

Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 60,572
Loc: new york city
Last seen: 15 hours, 24 minutes
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: geokills]
    #6289102 - 11/16/06 09:19 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)



--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.
-Erik Davis


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinegeokillsA
☼··· º¿° ···☼
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 16,497
Loc: city of angels Flag
Last seen: 3 hours, 54 minutes
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6290168 - 11/16/06 01:26 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Yessir - Thanks for linking me to your story.

After having her house bombed, parents stolen and husband killed, my grandmother met another man who was kind enough to help orchestrate the aforementioned escape via cargo ship from Estonia to Sweden. Dogs were sent through the ship at the Estonian dock, and if it weren't for a group of stow-aways in the compartment next to hers whom were not so lucky, she likely would have been found out herself. Once in Sweden, she learned how to operate an accounting machine (what you might call an old school calculator), and worked on those for about a decade before coming to the United States with her new husband and my mother.

From losing everything in Estonia and going from only a couple hundred dollars worth of gold in her pockets, to workin' her ass off in Sweden and ultimately in the US at Carnation Company (her husband for the Dept of Water & Power), it is one of many remarkable stories of the era. Once they had saved enough money, they bought and sold their own home every few years as an investment, eventually saving up enough to buy additional property for rental income. Today she lives in Beverly Hills with more than enough wealth for one woman, unfortunately haunted by a mind filled with terrible memories from a darker past.

It has come to the point where it seems she cannot find much enjoyment in her life any longer. Nevertheless, it is rather amazing what dire circumstance, coupled with a steadfast determination can lead a human being to accomplish. I admire her greatly.


--------------------

--------------------
··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙··
...π╥ ╥π...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFatBath
Turtle Wannabe
Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 87
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6290178 - 11/16/06 01:31 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

There is so much articualtion in this thread... it really hurts my short attention span. I read it all though, because this is really an area of deep passion. Now I noticed the conversation is very much about sharing information. Dangerous things that challenge barriers of the norms of decency.

I am a hasty, haphazard dumbass. I have been confronted with the situation of telling my mother that people say that I want to kill her (I don't want to get into the details, and they shouldn't really be necessary). Now, maybe not kill in a physical sense, but there are some that say I have violated the sanctimony of my mother's love. I grow up, and learn a few paltry spiritual techniques, and now I look at my mother, my family, and everyone else, and from time to time, I see their inner light shining, or even just their outer light. haha I can make no claim of differentiation. Anyway, I look at my mother, and these thought's that I have violated creep in. She talk's about growing old, and a little voice is meanacing, "yeah right... she doesn't have much time." I am just scared, angered. I can't even enjoy simple love from my mother. I get to see that abysmal hole of ceasless rage inside of me. I tell her. I told her. Now what? Did I make the right choice? Did I make it worse? It's not like it was before. I just have to keep going. Waitng. Watching. I am not a Shaman. I don't know if there is anything wrong. I feel like a psycho. I didn't want that thought to stay in my mind and manifest, though. I think it may be leaving, I hope.

Life is so fragile. I can't think so clearly, I can only act and learn. But my mind is in such a morbid and sensitive place, it's like sometimes, "YOU WORM, JUST ATROPHY AND DIE. YOU'VE GONE TOO FAR. JUST DIE." So much overexaggeration. Yuck. Can't think clearly at all. There is so much to learn, and it's hard to keep that perspective to not just start slacking off and fall into apathetic complacency.

Now, then: the psychelic issue. When I was younger I used to pace around in a small circle and think for fun. I would always try to "conjure" up passionate topics. I loved to think. Sometimes I'd be sitting down, reading on these boards, then something would set me off. I'd have to stand up and start walking all over in a fury, boldy proclaiming and bringing things to justice. All in my mind of course, I was never much for vocalization. This issue of drug prohibition still burns. These days, I am not getting out of my chair, but I immediatly lose concentration and my mind and eyes start darting around bouncing from one thing to the next in a quasi-retarded imitation of fuming indignation.

You're a cool guy, Mr. Robot. I've always likened the DEA to the Orwellian notion of Though Police. That is the first time I used Orwellian in a sentence, and now I feel scholarly. I have had thoughts of expressing, if asked, that I do believe etheogens can be used for spiritually medicinal purposes, whether at work, to my family, or in a court of law. I almost can't wait. I sit and plot my grand monologue. Then feel rediculous for ploting future dialogue. Well, there will be a time when power plants/psychedilics/etheogens will be accepted. It will probably be pretty soon too. Within our lifetimes. Well, Mr. Robot, good luck. I hope you find your ground to stand firmly upon and can act with wisdom.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFerris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Male Arcade Champion: 3D Superball, Alien Invasion, Bounce Back, Crazy Closet, Plastic Saucer

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet *DELETED* [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6291287 - 11/16/06 06:40 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by Ferris

Reason for deletion: .



--------------------

Discuss Politics


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOneMoreRobot3021
punky jewster
Male

Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 60,572
Loc: new york city
Last seen: 15 hours, 24 minutes
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: Ferris]
    #6293319 - 11/17/06 08:11 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

First of all, a brief aside: Can I get an "amen" for the length of all the replies in this thread, as well as for the thought-out nature of them all?  It's refreshing, after spending most of my time in the Pub and OTD, to see a different kind of interaction in here, especially when I put so much effort into communicating my feelings in the original post. You guys rock. :thumbup:

Quote:

FatBath said:
I have had thoughts of expressing, if asked, that I do believe etheogens can be used for spiritually medicinal purposes, whether at work, to my family, or in a court of law.  I almost can't wait.  I sit and plot my grand monologue.  Then feel rediculous for ploting future dialogue. 




Oh boy, I have certainly had this experience myself! It's important though and you shouldn't feel ridiculous though. You are teaching yourself how to talk about something you feel extremely strongly about, and it's something that a lot of people feel very uncomfortable about when it's brought up.  I can't suggest enough talking about entheogens with a wide range of different people...I'm slowly learning to shift from defensive attitudes about it to simply trying to spread information, which is a much healthier way of going about things. Don't just defend your own position, help people think about it from a different angle. :smile:


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.
-Erik Davis


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOneMoreRobot3021
punky jewster
Male

Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 60,572
Loc: new york city
Last seen: 15 hours, 24 minutes
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6293451 - 11/17/06 09:08 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I just had a looooong conversation with my one sister who is supportive of my beliefs/habits/practices. She's a writer for the Moscow Times, stationed in Moscow, and we don't get to talk very often but when we do the gloves are off and small talk is nonexistant and we say the things that matter, so I spoke to her about all this. She was really positive about the whole thing and told me that if this was what I believed in to just keep writing and go after it.

But she also said about my mom - look, she's not going to get it. She came to the United States from the USSR in the 1980's during the Nancy Reagan era. All she knows is "Just Say No."


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.
-Erik Davis


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinegeokillsA
☼··· º¿° ···☼
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 16,497
Loc: city of angels Flag
Last seen: 3 hours, 54 minutes
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6293481 - 11/17/06 09:21 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Just say Know! :grin:

Big :thumbdown: to stigmatic blanket propaganda. :nonono:

But, you gotta do what you gotta do.. sounds like you should refrain from offering up anymore information than necessary to your mother, unless she asks you outright; while maintaining your drive to compose the articles you wish to compose, and seeing them come to fruition!

May you be fortunate :sun:


--------------------

--------------------
··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙··
...π╥ ╥π...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOneMoreRobot3021
punky jewster
Male

Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 60,572
Loc: new york city
Last seen: 15 hours, 24 minutes
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: geokills]
    #6293488 - 11/17/06 09:24 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

May we ALL be fortunate. :heart:


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.
-Erik Davis


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleNeon
Stranger
Male
Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 497
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6295622 - 11/17/06 10:00 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I think it's going to be very difficult for your mother to understand what you want to express.  You have a way with words, so you do have that on your side.  Maybe you can get her to accept who you are but I doubt she'll be able to understand what she's accepting.

One time at home I had taken ayahuasca.  After it started kicking in my mother asked "so, is it fun?".  I kinda laughed and told her I wasn't taking it for fun.  She said "I don't understand".  I was quite surprised with her response, seeing how she was an old hippie who, in the past, had taken mushrooms, mescaline, and a hell of a lot of acid. 

In the days following I asked if she had ever had any lasting effects from psychedelics, anything she had learned, a religious experience, a greater appreciation of life, anything at all.  She said no, there were no lasting effects, once the trip was over it was over.  I've tried to explain the entheogenic experience to her, but I think she has a lot of trouble understanding why I do what I do, and she seems a bit scared I may drug myself into some kind of religious fanaticism.

Maybe if I bought my mother a good book or two about psychedelics she could understand it, but I haven't had much luck explaining it to her.  I'm not great at expressing myself, but still, with all the experience she has had with psychedelics I figured she could understand the reasoning behind why I use them.  It's quite frustrating.

If you talk to your mother you will have your work cut out for you.  I don't envy your situation.  Honestly, I doubt she would ever truly understand what you're doing with your life.  Maybe in time you could get your point across to her, but expect a lot of frustration for both of you until then.  You express yourself well, as has been stated, so if you go through with it don't doubt yourself.  I hope your path works out for you. :psychsplit:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOneMoreRobot3021
punky jewster
Male

Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 60,572
Loc: new york city
Last seen: 15 hours, 24 minutes
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: Neon]
    #6447892 - 01/11/07 06:55 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Well, I think sometime in the next year and a half to two years I will be going to graduate school, where I'm going to study the role of intoxicants, namely psychedelics, in culture.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.
-Erik Davis


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePenguarky Tunguin
f n o r d
Male User Gallery
Registered: 08/08/04
Posts: 15,765
Loc: But secks
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6448199 - 01/11/07 08:45 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Sociology, anthropology, what???


--------------------
Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOneMoreRobot3021
punky jewster
Male

Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 60,572
Loc: new york city
Last seen: 15 hours, 24 minutes
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: Penguarky Tunguin]
    #6448237 - 01/11/07 09:07 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

I'm juggling sociology, anthropology, and theology at the moment. any opinions on all of the above are most welcome.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.
-Erik Davis


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibledemius
broccolilocks
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 36,612
Loc: the popcorn stadium Flag
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6448332 - 01/11/07 09:38 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Personally, I'd avoid theology, but that's because I don't buy into religions.

I'm an anth. minor, so I guess I'm somewhat biased, but that's because I feel we've strayed so far away from what we should be doing (or not doing).


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 7,906
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #6448440 - 01/11/07 10:13 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

OneMoreRobot3021 said:
I'm juggling sociology, anthropology, and theology at the moment. any opinions on all of the above are most welcome.




I think I mentioned this in another one of your threads but I'll offer my opinion again.

Usually when you go into higher education, you obtain your degree under the mentorship of a specific professor/advisor. Within any of the above disciplines, a particular mentor is likely to have his/her own "style" or "approach" to how they perform and carry out research.

If I were you, I would identify someone who's work you admire, and then inquire whether or not they are accepting students. You will be judged more on the work that you do in graduate school, and the specific degree title that you obtain will have little relevance.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOneMoreRobot3021
punky jewster
Male

Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 60,572
Loc: new york city
Last seen: 15 hours, 24 minutes
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: badchad]
    #6448490 - 01/11/07 10:31 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Quote:

OneMoreRobot3021 said:
I'm juggling sociology, anthropology, and theology at the moment. any opinions on all of the above are most welcome.




I think I mentioned this in another one of your threads but I'll offer my opinion again.

Usually when you go into higher education, you obtain your degree under the mentorship of a specific professor/advisor.  Within any of the above disciplines, a particular mentor is likely to have his/her own "style" or "approach" to how they perform and carry out research.

If I were you, I would identify someone who's work you admire, and then inquire whether or not they are accepting students.  You will be judged more on the work that you do in graduate school, and the specific degree title that you obtain will have little relevance.




I'm in the process of doing that right n ow. :thumbup:


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.
-Erik Davis


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOneMoreRobot3021
punky jewster
Male


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 60,572
Loc: new york city
Last seen: 15 hours, 24 minutes
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7867805 - 01/12/08 12:29 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

More than one year later, much has changed. I just wrote this in my journal - my real, physical journal, not my Shroomery one. I wanted to transcribe and post it somewhere, I could think of nowhere better than this thread.

Quote:

I ask myself, what will it take for my mother, who I love so much, to support the more extreme of my decisions, my habits... It's not even just drugs/psychedelics/entheogens I want her to understnad...It's my unwillingness, perhaps even inability, to commit to traditional "career paths" and life structures. I don't care for a pension. I don't care for job security. All that means anything to me is creative fulfillment. Why should I make any decision that does anything but

a) gives me happiness
and
b) brings me closer to my long-term goals
?

I am the only person who knows what is truly right for me and it's true time for her to learn to trust me, my impulses, my idealism, my illogical (to her) desires. It's not reason that guides me at all times.

I know you love me, my dear mother, but how can I bring you closer to an understanding of me? In a way it's just like Alex, my father...you see me and my "success" in term sof finances and financial security. That makes me sad.

My choices are made and I'll lie in my bed. There's a whirring machine inside my head.
The gears are unaligned but I've got
a monkey wrench.
I'll twist things back together and throw them
underneath a sentence
Heaven is a truck that flattened out my
sensiblities.
You can peel me from the pavement but
you can't remove the street.
I'm a thing of liquid and I'm
swimming in a world of light.
We've got the same consistency
but I put up a fight.
I'm separate but I'm the same
I'm separate, but
I'm
the
same
the syncopated beat is happening
we can't defeat the deafening
we ride our steeds into the tide
as the unearthed sea begins to rise
I may not win the battle
but I'll emerge into the other side..






--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.
-Erik Davis


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOneMoreRobot3021
punky jewster
Male


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 60,572
Loc: new york city
Last seen: 15 hours, 24 minutes
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7867865 - 01/12/08 12:41 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Wow. The last response to this thread before I bumped it was one year and one day ago. Fucking wild. Synchronicities. I love life.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.
-Erik Davis


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineTypicalTripper
CannabisCuddling Canuck


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 396
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 months, 18 days
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #9160465 - 10/30/08 05:34 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I know lots of people don't like thread revival, but I feel this gem needs to be unearthed and shared periodically.  I sense that it is not only I who connects and empathizes with the original monologue.  I think it brillantly illustrates a mindset that a lot of people in the shroomery have been navigating in for a couple of years.  In addition, the journal entry with the poem speaks to me as a maturing of the philosophy, as a man who knows which path he's on , the path of the hearth. :heart:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,607
Loc: underbelly
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: TypicalTripper]
    #9163644 - 10/31/08 09:07 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

This is a great thread.  Of course I like just about anything that includes the writings of Castaneda.


--------------------
     

“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker


"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno." 


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblekake
The answer to1984 is 1776.
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 2,778
Loc: The 66th harmonic
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: kake]
    #9301144 - 11/23/08 10:29 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

kake said:
Robot, I wish we lived near each other man, we would make good pals, I think  :grin: I share your exact sentiments, and have for at least the past 4 years of my life.  I walk 2 paths-- it really pains me as well--and I know it is what is keeping me from accelerating toward my full potential as a human being.  That is why I am a member of Shroomery, because these issues are IMPORTANT to me and my life and my personal goals.

And you know what sucks?  There has always been a shade of doubt in my mind - that one day I'll shake this whole drug-phase and figure out it was all a bunch of hoopla.  :wink: That shade is undoubtedly a byproduct of that god-damned stigma that is embedded into our society.

And you know what else?  Each day, as my knowledge grows, as my social networks increase, as my experiences reiterate old truths and conjugate new ones, and my as original intuitions about psychedelics continue to solidify, that shade is nullified by more and more light.

I want to come clean about a lot of things with my parents as well.  I feel like I can't afford to wait - they're almost 50 and while still in good shape, we all know death can come at any time.  I feel like if I wait I will regret it, but I know if I don't express myself with full confidence and knowledge, they will think the same as you described... "throwing your life away to drugs".

I just want you to know, Robot, that I totally stand by you in these goals we truly share.  Life is too short not to be following the heartful paths.




funny this thread came up because I just had a conversation recently about this subject.  i still haven't made any progress on the confession aspect of it, and i don't plan to for another 2 years probably.  but if it came up now, i'd be ready for it.  psychedelics have altered my path and likely all of yours, too.  perhaps it's time to have a serious talk and start to open our hearts to revolutionary responses to a growing number of crises all around us.  anyway i don't expect this to motivate too many but i thought it worth mentioning.


--------------------
The answer to 1984 is 1776.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOneMoreRobot3021
punky jewster
Male


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 60,572
Loc: new york city
Last seen: 15 hours, 24 minutes
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: kake]
    #12068911 - 02/20/10 11:03 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Three and a half years later...I told my mom about my relationship to the psychedelic Experience

Quote:

OneMoreRobot3021 said:
It went pretty well, all things considered.



Quote:

OneMoreRobot3021 said:
Hey guys. Thanks for the love and support and sorry for leaving you all hanging for details. I posted this from my mother's computer almost immediately after our conversation, when she had gone to bed, and didn't feel right going into detail about it from there when it had just happened...it's been a whirlwind few days, let me tell you. All's not well, but all's not lost, either.  This is a process, and it has only just begun.


Quote:

Simisu said:
whoa, i seem to remember one very long post a few years ago (well.. at least more then a year ago fr'sure) talking about your wish to come clean about who you are to yr family.





Aye, that'd be this one!  What a beautiful thread to read, now, three and a half years later.

Quote:

Society said:
How'd you do it, OMR?





I recently booked a round-trip flight for a week-long vacation in San Jose/San Francisco to attend the MAPS Psychedelic Science in the 21st Century Conference in April. In a way, as soon as I booked the flights (moreso than the conference tickets) I knew this was going to happen, but I wasn't necessarily looking to go out of my way and come out of the psychedelic closet to my mother. However, I did send her a copy of my itinerary.

A brief aside: My mother and I are INCREDIBLY close.  I'm her baby boy, she's my dear mother. We're very close, as are both of my sisters, and we're all close with one another. But I can't drive it home enough - I'm closer to my mother than the vast majority of my male friends are with theirs. I talk to her about everything all the time, love life and all.

She likes to know travel details as she is a Russian Jewish mother and therefore is in a perpetual state of exponential worry over her children.  So I sent her a copy of the itinerary and when I went over for dinner last Tuesday to watch LOST, afterwards she asked me why I was going to SF when I have never visited my sister in Moscow since she lived there. I began lying, as I often have to do when going to a Shroomery gathering or any sort of psychedelic-centered event, about the wheres and the whys. I said that it'd take me a full day to travel to Moscow, a full day to travel back, I wouldn't be able to spend too much time with my sister...and she said, "What's in San Francisco?"

I said, "Friends, some good concerts, you know. I've never been there."

And she, perceptive as ever, said, "Are you hiding something from me?"

To which I replied, "Yes, I am. I'm going to San Francisco to attend a conference."

"Oh god..what is this. Some movement, some cult?"

Already not off on a such a great foot, I muted the television and turned fully towards her and I said, "Well, I'll tell you all about it. It's a conference called Psychedelic Science in the 21st Century, and it has an amazing lineup of academics and amateurs all speaking about recent progress in research into psychedelics as therapeutic medicines and also as spiritual tools. It's a topic I'm really interested in - I read a lot about it, and I write about it as well."

[Another aside: I am the only member of my entire family that can say the word "spiritual" without puking. I am a believer in a sea of agnostics-at-best.]

"How can you write about it if you don't do it?"

"Well..."

"Oh god.  Oh no. No no no.  I can't believe this."

My details of the exact repartee at this point become hazy but I'll outline it for you. She asked what drugs I did, and I decided then and there that baby steps were necessary - you see my mother came to America from the USSR in the late 70's and raised her children during the Just Say No Reaganism of the 80's.  So I told her that I was an enthusiast of psychedelic mushrooms, and decided for now to leave LSD, MDxx and DMT out of the conversation.

The conversation started, then, to spiral out of control, as she began angrily proclaiming that mushrooms were just as bad as cocaine.  This was actually a wonderful opportunity for me, because I explained to her that one of the things I am working on writing about is the idea of our vocabulary when we talk about consciousness-alteration. I gave her a list of five things - her blood pressure medication, birth control pills, cocaine, mushrooms and aspirin - and told her that all of those were "drugs" and that clearly, just from that, we could see that English suffered from a poverty of language because already our debate was bogged down by this idea of "drugs are bad" so "just say no to drugs." I told her that Just Say No just wasn't a philosophy I could ever live my life according to, that I had to learn things for myself and think for myself and make my own decisions.

She asked how I had first come into it, and I told her in vivid detail about my first mushroom experience. I told her my reasoning for trying it - I am a writer, and had never been a visual person, and was curious about hallucinating.  But I also told her that I found the visual component of my first experience to be, while fascinating, far less interesting than the cerebral/intellectual aspects of the experience. And I told her that was the first day of the rest of my life.

Have I not grown and blossomed into a really social, happy person? I asked her.  After all, before I went off to college, I was a very unhappy person, alone and angry at the world, full of hatred.  It was truly that first mushroom experience that opened me to the idea of Joy as a way of life - I walked out of that experience realizing that Everything Is Going To Be Okay, and starting from that day I was a happier person.

My mother could accept that...honestly, she was being very reasonable about everything but I think that it was mostly due to shock. She was in such a deep state of shock that both anger and sadness were difficult emotions for her to access. That worked in my favor - I must tell you that for all our closeness, when I imagined this conversation, it often ended with me being asked to leave her house.

But she wanted to know why mushrooms? There are other ways of being a happy person and learning about yourself. Why do I keep doing them? They're dangerous. That was the biggest thing for her - They Are Dangerous.  And i told her, look, I don't want to insult you, but you're speaking from a place of ignorance when you say they are dangerous - you don't really know what the dangers are, if there are any, you just think that drugs are bad, and therefore dangerous.  I had to explain to her how they are nothing like cocaine, and she said fine but they transform your mind! This was a difficult point - we were mired in the "danger" zone for quite some time.  Finally, she (a survivor of two minor strokes, with many health problems) told me "I'm sorry, but I need a cigarette." She had "quit" a couple years ago but I had caught her a few months ago and we had argued over it.

BUT! Here was another amazing opportunity for me. See, I said something in that previous argument that I reminded her of - she was apologizing for smoking and I said, "Well, like I said last time we talked about you smoking - everyone has the right to put whatever they want in their own bodies as long as it doesn't harm anyone else."  She responded to that with a sort of begrudging silence, lit up her cancer stick, and sucked away at it.

She told me she thought these things were illegal for good reasons - and I told her that was a whole 'nother can of worms I was happy to delve into if she wanted, and I told her that I didn't mean this to sound mean or anything but that quite frankly for all her intelligence this was one topic I definitely was more knowledgeable about.  I told her that I get into these debates with people somewhat frequently, and that I've made it my business to be as knowledgeable as possible about the drug war and how drugs work, their history, etc.

She asked me, "What about LSD?"  Here, I still lied. I don't regret it - at least she agreed that mushrooms were "natural" and grew from the ground. I told her "I tried it once, but mushrooms are more for me."  She said "You're crazy!" And I said "Well, some people think if you do LSD once you do go crazy, but please remember-"

And THIS is something I recommend to ANYONE getting into this conversation with a parent/loved one who had no previous idea about your tripping tendencies-

"I am the exact same person right now that I was before we had this conversation."

This all went on about an hour and a half and then she went to bed.  We have spoken since then a couple of times - she says she is switching between shock and anger. SHe has spoken to my sisters and they tell me that her main concern is simply my safety.  So now, moving forward, I have to simply reassure her of the safety of psilocybin mushrooms. When she's ready, and she says she is not just yet, I am going to give her things to read including my own writing on the topic.

This is just the beginning, as I said, of a process. I hope that this is an ongoing, continually evolving dialogue between my mother and myself. I feel as if a tremendous weight has been lifted off of my shoulders, and that I can move forward in 2010 with great aplomb.  I am eager to see how my next trip unfolds, whenever it may be, now that this one monkey that was always on my back during my psychedelic experiences, is off running free.

Quote:

Todcasil said:

"Betrayal of yourself in order not to betray another is betrayal nonetheless. It is the highest betrayal."





Indeed. My sisters are a bit angry at me for destroying my mother's veil of blissful ignorance about my "drug" use, and I told them this exact quote.

Quote:

notapillow said:
i remember our little talk at the dinner after that tequila shindig

and im so glad you told her how you felt


love is love

no matter how confuning




I tell ya, Pillow. Everything going on just then...margaret dying...you visiting...i think when we had that convo, I knew this was going to happen.

Quote:

trendal said:
Kudos to you, OMR, for your big reveal! I hope that the next few years are as enlightening for you and yours as they were for mine!! :heart:




Thanks tren...we'll see where it leads.  All I know is I'm headed to the MAPS conference and I just volunteered to help put on the HorizonsNYC psychedelics conference in September. Hopefully having come out to my mother can lead to new and amazing opportunities of growth and contributing to the psychedelic community in any way possible.





--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.
-Erik Davis


Edited by OneMoreRobot3021 (02/21/10 02:37 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSociety
Society


Registered: 07/03/04
Posts: 10,692
Loc: Society
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #12071488 - 02/21/10 01:58 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Great thread.

You could quote your post, though, as I believe only veterans are able to view your new thread.


--------------------
Society


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOneMoreRobot3021
punky jewster
Male


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 60,572
Loc: new york city
Last seen: 15 hours, 24 minutes
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: Society]
    #12071727 - 02/21/10 02:37 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Oh! Good point, and done.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.
-Erik Davis


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleCloud9
I don't feel, and it feels great
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 1,261
Loc: between here and there
Re: Paths of Heart/Coming out of the Psychedelic Closet [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #12075965 - 02/22/10 08:21 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

great thread, though it may be old ive read a lot like this lately. a sort of waking life, figuring out what one wants and needs in life.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]

Shop for:   eBay Ayahuasca, San Pedro   Amazon Terrence McKenna

Community >> Physical and Mental Well-Being

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* if someone breaks your heart, are you? lobsterdinner 470 9 02/29/08 11:46 AM
by Cameron
* coming out tomk 456 5 07/26/05 06:13 PM
by Hugh_Jass
* Totally lost it. Psychedelics = suicide? leery11 1,052 19 04/10/06 07:10 AM
by leery11
* How I changed my life thru meditation......."My Path" niteowl 1,495 15 05/11/09 09:55 PM
by bradley
* Psychedelics as an aid to self-psychotherapy redtailedhawk 687 8 05/20/05 12:18 PM
by Icelander
* Using psychedelics to work through a broken heart? deCypher 333 4 03/25/08 12:41 AM
by deCypher
* My Broken Heart Fades_to_Black 616 7 08/21/06 06:49 PM
by Penguarky Tunguin
* using psychedelics to treat ocd
( 1 2 all )
Doctor_Dick 524 22 02/12/10 01:22 AM
by Scudreloaded

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: CherryBom, eris, boO, Gumby, ZippoZ, Newbie
3,423 topic views. 0 members, 31 guests and 0 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:
Lil Shop Of Spores
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2012 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 2.04 seconds spending 1.461 seconds on 18 queries.