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 back2growing
hunter
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 165
Loc: southeast usa
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 can manure be inoculated with liquid culture? 
#5559602 - 04/26/06 04:58 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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im gonna get a good manure/straw mixture and pasteurize in oven bags on the stove.
it seems innoculating with a liquid culture (honey water in my case) would be quicker than waiting for pf jars to grow
the manure will be collected from a fruiting cow field. will the manure still work if cubes have already colonized and fruited in the past weeks?
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Its cube season on the gulf coast.
Whats more natural than a man going out and collecting medicines?
I like to take the heavenly route to hell.
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 Snaggletooth
Stranger in a Strange Land
 
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Re: can manure be inoculated with liquid culture? [Re: back2growing]
#5559629 - 04/26/06 05:03 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes it can but not like your thinking...
The 'old hands' have a high failure rate and they know what there doing.
You wont be skipping any steps but making many more.
You do not want to use cpoo you want hpoo.
cpoo turns to mud not good, hpoo stays soft and airy....
Take a few hours and read up 
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Atheist Chat
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skeletor
the dude
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Re: can manure be inoculated with liquid culture? [Re: back2growing]
#5559634 - 04/26/06 05:04 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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yes it can, but with a sucess rate of 2 in 50 poo bags.
we don't all use spawn grain for nothing haha.
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im sorry about your mother. She was a terrible attrative woman.
Get back to nature; hunting burgers and gathering fries.
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skeletor
the dude
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Posts: 1,235
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Re: can manure be inoculated with liquid culture? [Re: skeletor]
#5559639 - 04/26/06 05:06 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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cows have 4 stomaches horses have 1. thus the poo from a horse is much better.
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im sorry about your mother. She was a terrible attrative woman.
Get back to nature; hunting burgers and gathering fries.
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back2growing
hunter
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 165
Loc: southeast usa
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Re: can manure be inoculated with liquid culture? [Re: skeletor]
#5560791 - 04/26/06 09:21 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
You do not want to use cpoo you want hpoo.
cpoo turns to mud not good, hpoo stays soft and airy....
Quote:
yes it can, but with a sucess rate of 2 in 50 poo bags.
we don't all use spawn grain for nothing haha.
thanks
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Its cube season on the gulf coast.
Whats more natural than a man going out and collecting medicines?
I like to take the heavenly route to hell.
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musher_420
Stranger
Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 2,691
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Re: can manure be inoculated with liquid culture? [Re: back2growing]
#5560815 - 04/26/06 09:25 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Blue Helix
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Re: can manure be inoculated with liquid culture? [Re: back2growing]
#5561109 - 04/26/06 10:39 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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This is all nonsense. Spawn bags of horse poo can be injected with liquid culture just like any other substrate. If you use straight WBS, you need to add some vermiculite to soak up the LC; that's all. Of course, if you go this route, you need to sterilize the manure and treat it as a sterile substrate because the sugar in the LC would otherwise cause mold. I do this type of growing EXCLUSIVELY now for bulk growing and recommend it very highly.
Here are some manure bags showing what cubensis looks like 2 days after injection:
And 4 days after inoculation...
As you can see, the colonization completes in about 5 to 7 days using this technique. That time table applies to Pan Cyans too. After that you open the bag, break up the substrate, lay it in trays, and case it. By cutting out the spawning step, you can cut over two weeks off the time required to get your first harvest, and this method is less prone to problems than making spawn in my opinion.
The only problem is that you need jars or spawn bags with filter patches. You might be able to do it PF style too, but I haven't tried it.
In case you are wondering why people ever used spawn in the first place, I believe it has something to do with the mushroom industry which creates spawn in order to sell to mushroom farms who use it to inoculate their compost. This keeps the spawn generation middle men in business. Many modern operations are using liquid culture inoculations now in favor of spawn. In my view spawn is old school thought.
Edited by Blue Helix (04/26/06 10:47 PM)
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Blue Helix
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Re: can manure be inoculated with liquid culture? [Re: back2growing]
#5562209 - 04/27/06 08:50 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Here is a pictorial showing the production of spawn bags full of manure with grain and being inoculated by LC:
http://www.shroomery.org/index.php/par/28017
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Birthbytongue
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Re: can manure be inoculated with liquid culture? [Re: Blue Helix]
#5562251 - 04/27/06 09:07 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Blue- your spawn bag tek is the best bulk tek i've seen and i'll soon be attempting to follow it to the letter. However, i've still got to finalize my LC technique. Two questions: 1.)Why do you use hot glue to close off your inoculation point versus using an additional strip of masking tape? 2.)(i know this is off subject)Is there a particular LC tek(jar construction) that you use and can you point me in the right direction? I'm probably going to purchase a stirrer online today and use agar's recipe once i've got my setup complete.
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Proliferation of knowledge is our ONLY weapon!!!!!! WAKE UP the SLEEPING!
Edited by Birthbytongue (04/27/06 09:09 AM)
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Blue Helix
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Re: can manure be inoculated with liquid culture? [Re: back2growing]
#5562302 - 04/27/06 09:24 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
1)Why do you use hot glue to close off your inoculation point versus using an additional strip of masking tape?
I use the hot glue because it can more easily conform to the rough texture of the other tapes that have been through the pressure cooker. You see once those two tapes go through the cooker, they aren't real smooth any more; they tend to have little bumps and stuff. If I just used another piece of tape, the chance it wouldn't seal the hole perfectly is pretty high, and all it takes is a tiny pin hole to contaminate the mix when you are kneading it through the bag. Secondly, hot glue resterilizes the inoculation site which I think is a good idea. Lastly, hot glue is cheap. You can get a hot glue gun with glue at most dollar stores for a dollar.
Quote:
2)(i know this is off subject)Is there a particular LC tek(jar construction) that you use and can you point me in the right direction? I'm probably going to purchase a stirrer online today and use agar's recipe once i've got my setup complete.
I will return to this question later today as I'd like to take a couple pictures. I don't have time to fully answer now.
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Birthbytongue
Apprentice
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Re: can manure be inoculated with liquid culture? [Re: Blue Helix]
#5562338 - 04/27/06 09:36 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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excellent, and thank you for the quick response! I knew you old hands had a reason for everything. I'll keep my eyes open for that pictorial tek of yours. much appreciated!
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Proliferation of knowledge is our ONLY weapon!!!!!! WAKE UP the SLEEPING!
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agar
old hand
Registered: 11/20/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: can manure be inoculated with liquid culture? [Re: Blue Helix]
#5562673 - 04/27/06 11:29 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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If I recall correctly?
You use a stir plate to make LC's.
(so do I)
  
  
The reason I mention this is to clarify an issue.
Yes, you can do straight LC innoc's to substrate bags.
For that matter, even to certain types of trays.
   
The point is, it requires an OPTIMAL LC.
Stir plates break LC myc threads up.
Each new thread grows.
So, grow is exponentially expanded.
The result is a thick SLURRY of (very tiny pieces of) Myc.
Often, if you don't have, or use a stir plate.
Your LC may end up as just a few wisps, or pea size clumps of Myc.
Meaning, when you suck it into a syringe.
You end up with a few small cotton like balls of myc in it.
Which, IS NOT A THICK SLURRY of tiny pieces of myc.
(certainly, shaking a syringe will help - to break up - what is in the syringe)
But, you still will not have a thick slurry of myc, in the syringe.
To successfully LC innoc substrate bags, requires (IMHO)a stir plate prepared LC. Unless, you prefer to shake syringes, extended periods of time.
Simply because, with a stir plate LC slurry, you get thousands (or 100's of thousands) of individual pieces of myc in each syringe full.
Those tiny pieces, EACH - will start an individual colonization point. Resulting in a growth from thousands of individual points, inside a bag.
Alternatively, if you inject a bag with a few GLOB's of myc.
The result will be growth starting from only those few points.
Obviously, growth beginning from thousands of contact points, results in aggressive growth & fast colonization.
The REVERSE is true, if growth only starts from a few points.
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scatmanrav
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Re: can manure be inoculated with liquid culture? [Re: agar]
#5563397 - 04/27/06 02:56 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think thats an excellent point and why most people fail at the direct inoculation..
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Blue Helix
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Re: can manure be inoculated with liquid culture? [Re: Birthbytongue]
#5564387 - 04/27/06 07:14 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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As for what agar said, I cannot speak for that since I never used anything but a stir plate for my LC. I do know that mine look different than the wispy cloud things I see often when one uses marbles on it. Here is what mine looks like about when they are ready to use. Note that these are spinning at the time of the shot, so I don't spin them with a huge vortex like in agar's shot. I constantly stir mine at 100 to 300 RPM which is plenty and doesn't make a huge vortex like that:
  
Many folks don't know how to construct a proper LC lid that is fool proof. First, let me say I don't use a glove box. I don't use a HEPA filter either. I do everything in my bathroom and it's not all that clean. That means I have to make up for it by keeping a bottle of Oust handy and making everything injection-based.
I make an injection-based lid by taking a filter disc (buy them online), a rubber septum (like a cork for test tubes that you can inject through), and a metal lid. Here are parts:
You then push them together so they are like this:
 
When you put them on the quart jar, you need to cover the whole thing with a few coffee filters. This serves as a slip plate so to speak so the metal band doesn't translate torque to the filter disc under it and rip out the rubber septum. When it screws down, it will tend to just push down on the filter disc and look like this:
When it comes time for the inoculation injection, you puncture the rubber septum. When it comes time time to draw out the solution, you push through the rubber septum. My needle is so huge for my 140ml syringe (like 14 gauge), that I usually replace the rubber septum each time. They cost about 2 cents or something, so it's no big deal.
Edited by Blue Helix (04/27/06 10:42 PM)
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Cubenisseur
Mad Props
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Re: can manure be inoculated with liquid culture? [Re: Blue Helix]
#5564581 - 04/27/06 08:03 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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This has been a timely an informative thread for me, thank you all!
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Snaggletooth
Stranger in a Strange Land
Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 6,109
Loc: blinks stupidly
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Re: can manure be inoculated with liquid culture? [Re: Cubenisseur]
#5564658 - 04/27/06 08:23 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes anytime you get Agar and Blue Helix in the same thread it is bound to be interesting 
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Atheist Chat
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker
Registered: 07/17/05
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Re: can manure be inoculated with liquid culture? [Re: Snaggletooth]
#5564739 - 04/27/06 08:44 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Snaggletooth said:
Yes anytime you get Agar and Blue Helix in the same thread it is bound to be interesting
SERIOUSLY.
This thread ROCKS. 
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HELP!!!!!!!!!
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gotyerback
SpiritualAdvisor
Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 353
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Re: can manure be inoculated with liquid culture? [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5569743 - 04/29/06 06:51 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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This is a cherry post. I have been searching for this a long time. Some questions:
Is there a reason just using a twist tie to close up the bag would be bad? It seems to work fine for some.
Have most serious growers moved to this tek? It seems like the least amount of work with the most benefit, least risk, etc.
If one were to try this tek w/o constant LQ stirring, do you think there would be frequent failures or just slower growth?
I like the idea of just popping open the bag to fruit. I guess you could just wrap foil around the bottom and there's your tray. ??
Thanks for this post guys.
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