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Offlinepassitbobbie
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Nutmeg Isopropyl Alcohol extraction?
    #5370028 - 03/06/06 09:42 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Has anyone ever heard of doing an extraction on Nutmeg and then just consuming the resin? I'm wondering if Methoxysafrole will come out in an Iso (polar) wash? If I was to do this myself anyone know if pre-ground is better/worse than whole nutmeg?


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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: Nutmeg Isopropyl Alcohol extraction? [Re: passitbobbie]
    #5370863 - 03/06/06 03:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

i did an isopropyl extraction on ground nutmeg once, preground is worse. but that doesnt matter, i was left with an oil that didnt fully evaporate. I ingested what was extracted and was left with just a stomach ache. even after the 5th hour had passed, all i felt was nausea. i think your supposed to extract the oils via distillation. maybe a reflux in ether? im not too keen on this subject either, but i hope something i said may have helped.


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OfflineAKSE
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Re: Nutmeg Isopropyl Alcohol extraction? [Re: CptnGarden]
    #5372818 - 03/07/06 01:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Bah, I'de rather spend my time extracting from morning glories then nutmeg!


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OfflinePingasa
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Re: Nutmeg Isopropyl Alcohol extraction? [Re: AKSE]
    #5373072 - 03/07/06 02:23 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Alcahol extraction doesnt work with nutmeg. I've heard you can steam distill it though. Also i have heard something about using vinegar to make the nutmeg drop its salts or something such as that.


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Re: Nutmeg Isopropyl Alcohol extraction? [Re: passitbobbie]
    #5373315 - 03/07/06 05:58 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

This is not an installment of "Drugs are just BAD m'kay?" but NUTMEG CONSTITUTES A GRAVE HEALTH HAZARD if used to get high.
30gr of nutmeg can be LIFE THREATENING!



Let me now write

THE MOTHER OF ALL NUTMEG POSTS :grin:
In this post I will do the search, supply the info, scientifically kick Shulgin's ass on his nutmeg hypothesis and show you why Nutmeg is BAD m'kay? :wink:

First of all let us consider Nutmeg itself:

Quote:


Title: Myristica
Additional Names:  Nutmeg;  nux moschata;  nuces (semen) nucistae
Constituents:  25-35% fixed oil and 5-15% volatile oils. 
CAUTION:  Ingestion of large quantities causes drowsiness, stupor, death.





"The Stuff" that condenses to the glass wall if the nutmeg concoction cools is Nutmeg Butter

Quote:


Title:  Oil of Nutmeg, Expressed
Additional Names:  Nutmeg butter;  oil of mace
Literature References:  Oil expressed from nutmeg (Myristica fragrans Houtt., Myristicaceae).  Constit.  Chiefly trimyristin; some volatile oil.
Properties:  Orange-red to reddish-brown, soft solid.  mp 45-51?.  Odor and taste of nutmeg.  d 0.990-0.995.
Melting point:  mp 45-51?
Toxicity data:  LD50 orally in rats:  3640 mg/kg, P. M. Jenner et al., Food Cosmet. Toxicol. 2, 327 (1964)
CAUTION:  Symptoms similar to Oil of Nutmeg, Volatile.





Now nutmeg butter is the combination of both the fatty and volatile oils of nutmeg, so there will be a LOT of it, 30-50% of the used nutmeg, to be precise.
The Nutmeg Butter holds the psychoactive components. Since the fat is just a vegetable oil this leaves the volatile oil to our scrutiny:

Quote:


Title:  Oil of Nutmeg, Volatile
Additional Names:  Oil of myristica
Literature References:  Steam-distilled oil from dried kernels of ripe seeds of nutmeg (Myristica fragrans Houtt., Myristicaceae).  Constit.  60-80% d-Camphene, ~8% d-pinene; dipentene, d-borneol, l-terpineol, ~6% geraniol, safrol, ~4% myristicin.  The myristicin fraction together with its more than 25% content of elemicin is supposed to be responsible for the purported hallucinogenic properties of nutmeg seed:  Shulgin, Nature 197, 4865 (1963); Weil, Econ. Botany 19, 194-217 (1965).
Properties:  Colorless or pale yellow liquid; odor and taste of nutmeg. 
Toxicity data:  LD50 orally in rats:  2620 mg/kg (Jenner)
CAUTION:  Ingestion of large quantities produces narcosis, delirium, death.





This, for once, is where the good dr. Shulgin and I part.

Safrole (3,4-methylenedioxyallylbenzene)
Myristicin (5-MeO-Safrole)
Elemicin (3,4,5-trimethoxy-allylbenzene)

Now these are excellent starting materials to make MDA, MMDA and TMA respectively, but they are not known to be desirably psychoactive. They are known to cause CANCER though. And they are very hard on the liver.

Speaking of hard on the liver, how about Camphene, the major constituent of the oil? It is a camphorlike substance that is smuggled into your body and gives your liver a TON of work to metabolize it into camphorlike substances.
Now let's look at camphor, shall we?

Quote:


Additional Names:  (1S)-(-)-Camphor

CAUTION:  Potential symptoms of overexposure to synthetic camphor are irritation of eyes, skin, mucous membranes; nausea, vomiting, diarrhea; headache, dizziness, confusion, vertigo, excitement, restlessness, delerium, hallucinations; epileptic convulsions; CNS depression, coma.





Hold da phone.. what was that again?

Quote:


NUTMEG: Ingestion of large quantities causes drowsiness, stupor, death.

NUTMEG VOLATILE OIL: Ingestion of large quantities produces narcosis, delirium, death.

CAMPHOR: irritation of eyes, skin, mucous membranes; nausea, vomiting, diarrhea; headache, dizziness, confusion, vertigo, excitement, restlessness, delerium, hallucinations; epileptic convulsions; CNS depression, coma.





Sooo.. Camphor is a Central Nervous System Depressant ("sedative") that causes Delirium which features hallucinations, confusion, excitement & restlessness which are pretty standard as toxic deliria go. (Looks alot like DT, Delirium Tremens)

All of this is reflected in the Nutmeg data, and Camphor is the well-studied analog of the more obscure Camphene thats up to 80% of volatile nutmeg oil.

Now let's look at the  NATURAL HIGHS FAQ  at Erowid:

Quote:

Effects:
Possible nausea during first hour; may cause vomiting or diarrhea in isolated cases. Takes anywhere from one to five hours for effects to set in. Then expect severe cottonmouth, flushing of skin, severely bloodshot eyes, dilated pupils. Personally I compare it to a very, very heavy hash buzz. "Intense sedation". Impaired speech and motor functions. Hallucinations uncommon in average (5-10 gm) doses. Generally followed by long, deep, almost coma-like sleep (expect 16 hours of sleep afterward) and feelings of lethargy after sleep. May cause constipation, water retention. Safrole is carcinogenic and toxic to the liver.




HELLO! There we got the missing link! Here you got the Nausea, the Vomiting and Diarroea that we missed from the Camphor poisoning description. And Camphor externally irritates skin while Nutmeg causes flushed (irritated) skin when taken internally.
And prominent CNS Depressant effects on top of that too!

---

So there you have it then: d-Camphene constitutes 60-80% of Nutmeg Volatile Oil, it is a close relative to Camphor and the toxicology data shows considerable similarity.

Since both descriptions speak of profound CNS DEPRESSANT "sedative" and DELIRIANT "poisoning hallucinations" effects we may conclude that there's a strong link between Camphor toxicity and the Camphene in Nutmeg Volatile Oil.

---

Now let's look at what those 30 grams of nutmeg contain:

9-15gr Nutmeg Butter which contains

1.5-4.5gr Nutmeg Volatile Oil which contains

0.9-3.6gr Camphene (narcotic liver poison, the lethal range for Camphor)

~100-500mg Safrole/Myristicin/Elemicin (carcinogen liver poisons)

---

The bottom line: DON'T DO IT IT IS SELF-POISONING
Just like salt isn't meant to be eaten by the spoonful some things are just suitable for use as a high. Their poisoning symptoms may seem desirable, but the bottom line is that they are POISONING SYMPTOMS and not resultant of specific drug action.

Nutmeg Eating might not seem it at first glance, but upon toxicological scrutiny it is comparable in dangerousness and fucked-up desperation to glue sniffing, where I want to add the distinction that I'd rather poison myself with some very specific brands of huffed glue rather then with Nutmeg. Let's compare it to paint thinner & gasoline huffing.

At C10H16 Camphene is quite comparable to a gasoline fraction anyway, except it has a specific structure. It's more like DRINKING gasoline, even MORE dangerous.

Nutmeg Oil's Camphene is a classic alkyl anaesthetic, supplied in sedative-hypnotic doses, except it is molecularly too BIG to be one and as such it causes epilepsy-like convulsions. Orally it cannot be dosed properly so that means that an ineffective dose now may kill you next time around.

The LEGAL HIGHS FAQ says:
Generally followed by long, deep, almost coma-like sleep
Think for a minute: Do you want to yield yourself to unrousable unconsciousness which might proceed into epileptic convulsions and death? Do you want your girlfriend to find you ridin' the bed like you were in the Exorcist?
Or just silently stop breathing, or awakening after severe apnoea with oxygen deprivation braindamage?
How about liver damage?
Cancer, anyone?

The bottom line: Nutmeg is VERY dangerous to abuse, because it's high is a poisoning. Want to hallucinate? Grow mushrooms from the free spores of the 1/8oz shrooms-baggie you bought.
Want to get Low? Do it properly and use BEER!

Because that's the bottom line: You can compare Nutmeg to a highly dangerous and very poisonous substitute for liquor.
Now how desperate is that?




-----------------------------------------------------------------



Ok, cancer - poisoning - lasting organ damage, got nutmeg?

That said isopropanol would be a poor solvent, acetone would be much better. But you don't actually need an organic solvent. If you heat a mixture of water and ground nutmeg then the crud will sink to the bottom and nutmeg butter will float on top. Nutmeg butter, like said, constitutes of unhealthy fatty acids (myristic acid is super bad for the heart) and the volatile oils, which are the active principle.


cancer - poisoning - lasting organ damage


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Invisibleshriek
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Re: Nutmeg Isopropyl Alcohol extraction? [Re: Asante]
    #5373327 - 03/07/06 06:24 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

while all this you write is truth , nutmeg can be deadly in very small dosages, strains are diffrent. BUT allylbenzene oils can be enjoyable if done right Ive heard . Torstein at shaman-australis has researched allylbenzene oils for many years and have written a good deal about how to use it and how to not use it. supposedly you should only use essential oils (from high myristicin strains) and do a 200 degree C fraction of the oil to elimate most of the dangers.


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Offlinepassitbobbie
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Re: Nutmeg Isopropyl Alcohol extraction? [Re: Asante]
    #5373387 - 03/07/06 08:24 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Good information Wiccan I enjoyed reading that. On a side note I attempted plain old ingestion of 18 g ground mace (comes from same plant as nutmeg) and that did nothing ;p


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OnlineAsanteA
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Re: Nutmeg Isopropyl Alcohol extraction? [Re: shriek]
    #5374281 - 03/07/06 03:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BUT allylbenzene oils can be enjoyable if done right Ive heard .




Not to be a dick, but what part of "cancer" do you not understand?

:wink:damn

Seriously: those very same allylbenzenes that might be enjoyable are carcinogens in those very same doses. Its the reason why the "sassyfras icecream" Stan Laurel refers to in one of his flicks cannot be made with true sassafras oil anymore.

Safrole
Myristicin
Elemicin
Apioles
Asarone

All are carcinogens!


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Invisibleshriek
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Re: Nutmeg Isopropyl Alcohol extraction? [Re: Asante]
    #5374554 - 03/07/06 04:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

cancer huh heh i smoke benzopyrene, nitrosonornicotine and many other carcinogens on a daily basis i havent gotten the part with it may cause cancer yet :wink: (seriously i should quit).

its intresting tho, how we consume them , carcinogens are present mostly in plant material and works as a defense mechanism so it shouldnt be eaten by humans\animals, i figure animals are smarter that way than humans. Alkaloids has much of the same function in plants , defense mechanism, but alkaloids are diffrent, i dont know of any alkalods that cause DNA damages. carcinogens can cause trouble for the dna responsible for programmed cell death and this may lead to cell death that arent programmed to happen wich again can lead to cancer, is that a somewhat correct way to explain this wiccan?

where waas I, oh thats right

:bongload:


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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: Nutmeg Isopropyl Alcohol extraction? [Re: shriek]
    #5381356 - 03/09/06 03:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

lol ^


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Offlinepscyanescens
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Re: Nutmeg Isopropyl Alcohol extraction? [Re: CptnGarden]
    #6446583 - 01/10/07 09:35 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Nutmeg is classified as a deleriant. Why would you want to consume a deleriant in the first place? When its effects are "considered unpleasant by most who experience them."

"They are called deleriants because their effects at high doses include incoherent speech, disorientation, delusions, an halucinations, often followed by depression and amnesia for the period of intoxication."

-Not my cup of tea. Maybe someone else, but depression? amnesia? You can't remember the fun you had, if any.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/nutmeg/nutmeg.shtml
http://www.erowid.org/plants/datura/datura_info6.shtml


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OfflineKingCaps36
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Re: Nutmeg Isopropyl Alcohol extraction? [Re: passitbobbie]
    #13838960 - 01/23/11 10:03 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

The best way to trip on nutmeg is quite simple
Put ground whole nuts in a pot, add some white vinegar, like 1/4 cup, or more, depending on your amount of mutmeg. add good water, stir , boil this for at least fifeteen minutes, an oily precipitate will form on the surface, pour this into another container, consume the yellow whitish oily stuff. you can continue to pull more out if you boil all the water away then add cold water, forcing white sheets of some active chemical, and yea. get the idea. I do this quite a bit and love it. closed eye visuals. open eye rivers patterns, Major stoned baked like feeling. plu other unique effects. happy meggin


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Re: Nutmeg Isopropyl Alcohol extraction? [Re: KingCaps36]
    #13840694 - 01/24/11 06:59 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Ive experimented with nutmeg before (stupidly) and ate approximately 14grams. I had no negative effects or "hangover" just a moderate intoxicated feeling. Wouldn't do it again though. There is a reason its not done recreationally.


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OfflineKingCaps36
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Re: Nutmeg Isopropyl Alcohol extraction? [Re: KingCaps36]
    #14165775 - 03/22/11 07:03 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KingCaps36 said:
The best way to trip on nutmeg is quite simple
Put ground whole nuts in a pot, add some white vinegar, like 1/4 cup, or more, depending on your amount of Nutmeg. add good water, stir , boil this for at least five teen minutes, an oily precipitate will form on the surface, pour this into another container, consume the yellow whitish oily stuff. you can continue to pull more out if you boil all the water away then add cold water, forcing white sheets of some active chemical, and yea. get the idea. I do this quite a bit and love it. closed eye visuals. open eye rivers patterns, Major stoned baked like feeling. plus other unique effects. happy Meggin




Come on. This extract is awesome. when you see oil, forming, begin scooping it off. eventually the water is gone. add fresh water . and continue. on the second third and fourth rinses you just need to pour the liquid into jars. stick all these jars in the fridge over night. strain out the waxy stuff. yellow oily crumb stuff. scrape the white powder off of the jars. mix these two chemicals and feel great. stimulating, closed eye visuals. Stoney at lower doses.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Ethnobotanical Garden

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