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daimyo
Monticello
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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ADHD Drugs May Kill You
#5285181 - 02/10/06 09:46 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Article By Judith Graham and Judy Peres
In a surprise move, a Food and Drug Administration advisory panel voted Thursday to put a black box warning?the most severe possible?on drugs used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.
The action was prompted by new data about deaths and serious cardiovascular problems, including heart attacks and strokes, among patients taking the popular medications.
Although the cases of such adverse events appear to be small? fewer than one in 1 million?the panel voted 8-7 to recommend a warning because millions of people could be affected. One member of the panel abstained.
"We thought more information needed to be made available to the public," said Dr. Steven Nissen, a Cleveland Clinic cardiologist who sits on the FDA panel.
People with ADHD are impulsive and have problems concentrating. By some estimates, 6 percent of children and 2 percent of adults have the condition, though debate has raged for more than a decade over whether ADHD is overdiagnosed and drugs for it overprescribed. More than 2.5 million children and 1 million adults take ADHD medications.
Psychiatrists expressed surprise at the FDA panel's decision. "In my opinion, this panel's reaction was too strong," said Dr. Louis Kraus, chief of child psychiatry at Rush University Medical Center.
"Why are they jumping to this before there's clear evidence?" asked Dr. Sharon Hirsch, a child psychiatrist at the University of Chicago Hospitals. She advised patients and parents to remain calm and said "there's no reason to stop your medication."
Dr. Joyce Kocher, a child psychiatrist in the northern suburbs, thinks the benefits of these medications far outweigh the risks. "If your kid can't color, can't read, can't sit still, is in timeout all day, is failing and getting held back?what's the benefit in that?" she said.
Adderall, a stimulant used to treat ADHD, already carries a black box warning about possible cardiovascular side effects; the advisory panel recommended a similar warning be added to Ritalin, Concerta, Methylin and Metadate. While not binding, the advisory panels' recommendations usually are followed.
For years, physicians have known that ADHD drugs raise some patients' pulse and blood pressure. But the medications were prescribed mostly to otherwise healthy children and the effects seemed minimal.
An FDA review prepared for the advisory panel indicated the medications might have played a role in 25 deaths and 54 cases of serious medical problems between 1999 and 2003. The problems included heart attacks, strokes, hypertension, palpitations and the overly rapid heartbeats known as arrhythmia.
Nineteen of the deaths involved children, and an accompanying FDA analysis suggested the risk of sudden cardiac death in children taking ADHD drugs was 1.5 to 2.5 times greater than in the general population, Nissen said.
The FDA evidence suggested a possible link between ADHD medications and cardiovascular conditions, but not a clear cause-and-effect connection, an agency official, Dr. Kate Gelperin, told the panel.
"My perspective is, there are disturbing signals in the data, and we have reason to believe that drugs that increase people's heart rate and blood pressure are not healthy for the heart," Nissen said.
Novartis AG's medical safety director, Todd Gruber, said the drug manufacturer's data for Ritalin did not show a higher risk of cardiovascular complications among users.
--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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Himejime
Learning the way
Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 158
Loc: Northern Cali
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: daimyo]
#5285231 - 02/10/06 10:00 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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good thing I have been taking these everyday for like 3 years, I do have really small heart pains sometimes and I notice that it makes my muscles sore and my back sore and gives me a runny nose every time I take it, I went to the doctor with those complaints and he said no one has had those symptoms, then I left and just ignored all my symptoms havent been back. In 3 years I have only seen my doctor once to get ritalin, he never gives me check ups to see if im in good shape still he just writes up the perscription when my mom stops in and she can get them for me without me being there.
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eris
underground
Registered: 11/17/98
Posts: 48,024
Loc: North East, USA
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: daimyo]
#5285273 - 02/10/06 10:13 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I was on meds for this when I was younger. I've tried ritalin and adderal daily. I was on them for like a couple years or something. Back then I did weed and other drugs daily too, which was probably not a good idea to mix with the adhd stimulants. The meds did have a relaxing effect on me most of the time, which does support the fact that I have hyperactivity issues. In fact just about any kind of stimulant from speed and ephedra to coke, made me calm instead of wired. Anyways after a while the adhd meds just caused anxiety, a raise in heart rate and blood pressure, it also seemed to do some kind of long term damage to my thought process. I was more paranoid and anxious for years, even after quitting use of the meds. Eventually I was able to overcome these issues, but I still don't feel like I'll ever be the same. I believe they can cause permanent brain damage when used for long periods of time. It is especially a bad idea to mix it with other drugs.
-------------------- Immortal / Temporarily Retired The OG Thread Killer My mushroom hunting gallery
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OneMoreRobot3021
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 61,024
Loc: the sky
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: daimyo]
#5285275 - 02/10/06 10:13 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Adderall could kill me?
Shit...I'm on adderal right now.
-------------------- Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake. -Erik Davis
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camelsmoker
smoke up
Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 1,310
Loc: The Dirty Dirty
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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ya the doctors always tried putting me on meds like those and others like antidepressents and so on but i never took em i would throw em away when mother wasnt lookin lol....i always knew those meds were no good i was just a bad kid hahaha...never felt right on meds
-------------------- THE LUNATIC IS IN MY HEAD <----(o)----> Check out www.alexgrey.com! He does tools artwork from lateralus. No harm can come from questioning. "Best" case scenerio: You prove it right without relying on the fact that it is widely accepted. Argument strengthened. "Worst" case scenerio: You realize you might have been wrong. The new answer might or might not be what you want to hear, but it beats defending yourself with bullshit. Qoted from (Koala Koolio)
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demiu5
humans, lol
Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: daimyo]
#5285382 - 02/10/06 10:40 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I wrote a paper about the negative effects of amphetamines with a focus on adderall and the like. They can do some serious damage if used longe enough.
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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mediman0078
Stilllooking.....
Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 1,379
Loc: Here, there, EVERYWHERE
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: camelsmoker]
#5285401 - 02/10/06 10:49 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't think giving dextroamphetamines to kids was ever a good idea... Look at what happens to people who use meth daily... Both are physically and mentally debilitating over time. I know they're not quite the same catagory, but speed is still speed.
-------------------- ........someday I'll find it.
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FungusMan
I81U812
Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 3,112
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: mediman0078]
#5285743 - 02/10/06 12:36 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Xanax is my fwend
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: FungusMan]
#5285836 - 02/10/06 01:11 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have been trying to tell everyone on this board about this shit since I have been on here... no one seemed to care.
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OneMoreRobot3021
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 61,024
Loc: the sky
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I just carried a 30 lb. box up 5 flights of stairs while in the midst of the throes of adderall, and yes, it just might kill me. WATER!
-------------------- Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake. -Erik Davis
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Boom
just a tester
Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 11,252
Loc: Cypress Creek
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: daimyo]
#5286014 - 02/10/06 01:55 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I value graduating over my physical well being!
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Stonerguy
I smoke penis
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 5,538
Loc: Lost
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: daimyo]
#5286058 - 02/10/06 02:05 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Im not down for everyday use... but If you have a big test comming up or something really important that needs to get done, it really helps.
-------------------- yawn... SG
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Boom
just a tester
Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 11,252
Loc: Cypress Creek
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: Stonerguy]
#5286070 - 02/10/06 02:08 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah that's how I use it too.
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OneMoreRobot3021
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 61,024
Loc: the sky
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: Boom]
#5286081 - 02/10/06 02:09 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I use it when I went to bed the night before at 4 AM cause I was playing World of Warcraft and then suddenly it's 8 AM and I dont know if I can get through the day. Evne then though, I'll go the coffee route before I resort to adderall. Not today tho.
-------------------- Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake. -Erik Davis
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Stonerguy
I smoke penis
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 5,538
Loc: Lost
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: Boom]
#5286084 - 02/10/06 02:09 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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The funny thing is we would be classified by everyone as drug abusers. Since we don't "need" it.
Shit speed can help alot of people you don't need to be ADHD to get some work done.
-------------------- yawn... SG
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Boom
just a tester
Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 11,252
Loc: Cypress Creek
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Yeah coffee is my normal pick-me-up..
I result to the others in cases of big exams (or long road trips)
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Toddo
Stranger
Registered: 07/09/04
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Quote:
OneMoreRobot3021 said: Adderall could kill me?
Shit...I'm on adderal right now.
0wned
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Jackattack
Stranger
Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 150
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: Toddo]
#5286167 - 02/10/06 02:29 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I doubt adderal is very dangerous its been used for years.
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Stonerguy
I smoke penis
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 5,538
Loc: Lost
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: Jackattack]
#5286183 - 02/10/06 02:35 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Just because its old dosn't mean its safe. Shit man look at fucking cocaine been around for longer than dexamphetamines....
-------------------- yawn... SG
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RedNucleus
Causal Observer
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 4,103
Loc: The Seahorse Valley
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: daimyo]
#5286191 - 02/10/06 02:37 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I call shenanigans! The general consensus is that the 25 (from 1999 to 2003) cases of people dying suddenly after taking one of a number of stimulants for ADHD cannot be linked with any certainty to the stimulants. There is some suspicion but I don't think anyone should be worried yet.
Over 31 million prescrips were written for these drugs last year. Merely 25 people have died over 4 years. It's not evidence of any connection at this point. The FDA voted on thursday to put the "strongest type of warning possible" on ADHD meds. This way people will be aware that there is a suspicion and it is being looked into. However, I personally don't think there is any cause for concern.
"Gerald Dal Pan, director of the FDA's Office of Drug Safety, wrote in a memo to the advisory panel that the reports of adverse reactions don't prove the drugs caused the problems. Robert Temple, director of the FDA's Office of Medical Policy, said that although the agency doesn't need ironclad proof before warning patients about possible drug risks, 'We still believe that what you tell people should reflect the available data. We didn't find the sudden death data very persuasive.'"
The quote and all the rest of the information above is from today's issue of USA Today Newspaper.
Edited by RedNukleus (02/10/06 02:50 PM)
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Boom
just a tester
Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 11,252
Loc: Cypress Creek
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: Stonerguy]
#5286192 - 02/10/06 02:37 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Dont forget heroin!
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,833
Loc: LA Suburbs
Last seen: 10 months, 13 days
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: Himejime]
#5286314 - 02/10/06 03:19 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Himejime said: good thing I have been taking these everyday for like 3 years, I do have really small heart pains sometimes and I notice that it makes my muscles sore and my back sore and gives me a runny nose every time I take it, I went to the doctor with those complaints and he said no one has had those symptoms, then I left and just ignored all my symptoms havent been back. In 3 years I have only seen my doctor once to get ritalin, he never gives me check ups to see if im in good shape still he just writes up the perscription when my mom stops in and she can get them for me without me being there.
Really now? Because in my area a general practicioner prescribing ritalin with enough refills to last that long would be faced with some pretty large fines.
-------------------- I find your lack of faith disturbing
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: RedNucleus]
#5286340 - 02/10/06 03:29 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I remember last year alone there were 23 children which died due to Adderal XR.
here are some links regarding this....
http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/InfoSheets/HCP/adderalHCP.htm http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=19972
and
Quote:
Linked to 20 deaths, Shire Pharmaceuticals' Attention Deficit and Hyperactivity Disorder drug Adderall was suspended by Health Canada, resulting in a ten per cent drop in the UK company's shares, according to a Bloomberg report.
The US FDA instead, citing their evaluation of Adderall before approval of the drug, says it has no plans to change the status of the drug in the United States.
This uncovers a fault in the regulation of pharmaceutical drugs: the absence of ongoing monitoring of the "performance" and especially the safety of drugs. Once approved, it appears that the FDA relies on voluntary reporting by the drug companies to tell it about side effects - a bit like having the fox guard the hen house.
According to Senator Grassley of Iowa, the US agency has even asked its Canadian counterpart not to suspend the drug. Grassley is quoted in the article, published in the New York Times, as saying that the Food and Drug Administration had made the request of Canadian health officials because the F.D.A. could not handle another "drug safety crisis."
Why is there such a difference in the treatment of the drug's safety problems by Canadian and US authorities? One reason may be a difference in the laws of the two countries, where Canadian legislation allows suspension of a drug while security concerns are investigated, while US law apparently does not support such a course of action.
Another reason is that there seems to be a much closer relation of the pharmaceutical industry and the FDA than there is to corresponding agencies in other countries. After all, the FDA is looked upon as a "lead agency" in drug approvals and drug safety. Expanding sale of drugs to other countries is much easier after FDA approval has been obtained.
That would presume that the FDA is upholding the highest standards on drug safety, which however does not seem to be the case. Perhaps the agency should take a cue from National Institutes of Health chairman Dr. Elias Zerhouni, who, according to the LA Times, says that consulting payments from drug companies are "a systemic problem" and asks for an ethics summit, a forum for wider discussion on conflicts of interest in medical research
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magikgrl
~Inevitable~
Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 4,566
Loc: Michigan
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I've also been prescribed them, but don't take em. The adderall helped at first but then sucked, and gave me crazy side effects, i still have minor heart pains, which i should go get checked. The only stimulant I take, when I need it, is provigil. But thats not considered a ADHD drug, its more for narcoleptic, and excessive daytime sleepiness(which i have)My dumb ass friends however, think its a great idea to combine Adderall and ecstasy
-------------------- "In the 60s people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal...go figure." Becoming human was not part of the plan... I wish I could be as high as my tolerance-danlennon Reality is a crutch for those that can't cope with drugs.
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onetime
onetime
Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 3,609
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: daimyo]
#5286430 - 02/10/06 04:05 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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yeah this shit was on the news last night local and national. The Problem is that no one mentions that the only differant be tween amphedimine and methamphedimine is the methly group. And the methly group seems to only prolong the effects and make it so that your body has a harder/longer time degesting it. This is why spearment+methly group=asprin and that shit is safe as hell. So the problem isnt "meth" the problem amps legal or illegal , and with or with out the methy group.
-------------------- See? Yes, with my own three eyes. Depression, Misspells , wanting everying thing i cant have haveing nothing i want
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Fluxburn
.
Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 2,216
Loc: Oakland, CA, USA
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: onetime]
#5287126 - 02/10/06 08:00 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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So is it better to speed up your heart or to slow it down? Niether right? It would have to be implied that every drug can kill you. Downers and Uppers, hey even cannabis can kill you. Just ask WiccanSeeker about that one.
-------------------- ABSTRACT ART (Mine) http://nathanbelomy.com
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: onetime]
#5287843 - 02/11/06 02:10 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
onetime said: yeah this shit was on the news last night local and national. The Problem is that no one mentions that the only differant be tween amphedimine and methamphedimine is the methly group. And the methly group seems to only prolong the effects and make it so that your body has a harder/longer time degesting it. This is why spearment+methly group=asprin and that shit is safe as hell. So the problem isnt "meth" the problem amps legal or illegal , and with or with out the methy group.
yes, the only difference between methamphetamines and amphetamines is the methyl group which makes the compound more fat soluble, which means that it is absorbed quicker. I dont think we would have in america the increasingly obtuse prescription drug addiction/dependancy if we informed parents that they were in fact placing their children on a drug which had an ever so slight chemical variation to methamphetamines.
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fresh313
journeyman
Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 2,537
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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meth is alot different then amph
maybe molecularly they are similar
meth is about 10x+ as powerful.
physically, and psychologically.
its apps and o's
amph is safe in moderation
just like ephedra was safe in moderation
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eligal
Noobie
Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7,021
Loc: California
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: fresh313]
#5287910 - 02/11/06 04:27 AM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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nothing is safe. not even the air we breathe or the water we drink.
-------------------- \m/ Spanksta \m/ "do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?" "MolokoMilkPlus said: I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job" "tactik said: respect the can."
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: fresh313]
#5288665 - 02/11/06 01:14 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
fresh313 said: meth is alot different then amph
maybe molecularly they are similar
meth is about 10x+ as powerful.
physically, and psychologically.
its apps and o's
amph is safe in moderation
just like ephedra was safe in moderation
erowid kind of disagree's with you....
Quote:
Another thing to note when talking about the differences in the amphetamine-class stimulants is that one of the strange effects of current culture is that particular drugs are demonized in the news, entertainment media, government information, and school curricula. Methamphetamine is particularly demonized, amphetamine somewhat less so, even though amphetamine-related stimulant drugs -- including methylphenidate (Ritalin), amphetamine (Adderall, Dexedrine), & methamphetamine (Desoxyn) -- are commonly prescribed for children from as young as age 3. All three of these can lead to difficult-to-break habits and can become a problem for some people who try them. But the marketing teams of the pharmaceutical companies do what they can to soothe parents' concerns by separating the image of street-speed users from the clean, clinical, healthy use of their products.
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mediman0078
Stilllooking.....
Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 1,379
Loc: Here, there, EVERYWHERE
Last seen: 18 years, 10 days
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Yup... the image is the only difference... and the purity. At least the pharm stuff isn't made with brake fluid and garage distilled ammonia....
None of it is appropriate for long term use, especially in kids... that's just asking for cardiac and vascular problems.
-------------------- ........someday I'll find it.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: mediman0078]
#5288795 - 02/11/06 01:53 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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I just love how some people on here can go on and on about how the government tells lies about the drugs they take, but still take any and all comments regarding "other drugs".... as if you couldnt possibly be swayed and conditioned to associate bad/worse/negative ideas to drugs.
The difference between meth and amphetamines is about the same difference between crack and cocaine.
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Infrared
sleeping
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 12,988
Loc: Chicago, USA
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neh... its a little more different then just crack/coke... those are still the exact same molecule. just ones in baseform and ones in acid
heroin to morphine would be a little more apt of an analogy. for meth to amp
-------------------- When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: Infrared]
#5288828 - 02/11/06 02:04 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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no, you see, the only difference is that one is absorbed faster, as opposed to slowly being absorbed.
maybe crack/cocaine was a bad analogy.... its more like taking 5 shots all at once, as opposed to 5 shots over the course of an hour.
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Infrared
sleeping
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 12,988
Loc: Chicago, USA
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Quote:
no, you see, the only difference is that one is absorbed faster, as opposed to slowly being absorbed.
my analogy was perfect.. the only difference between heroin and morphine is that one is absorbed faster
-------------------- When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: Infrared]
#5288842 - 02/11/06 02:09 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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ok, and if you asked a random person on the street which drug was worse: heroin or morphine..... which do you think they would say?
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Infrared
sleeping
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 12,988
Loc: Chicago, USA
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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random people are dumb, of course theyll say heroin.. cause its illegal and been demonized... just like how theyll say meth is worse than any other amp.. cause its been demonized
-------------------- When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry
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OrizonsHorizon
Stranger
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So How does that suggest Meth is just as potent as Adderal? If you want to compare your street tweaker to those on ADD medication than you have to acknowledge all the differences as well. All the reports (brain damage studies) of addicts and stuff were taken from users whom were taking .6-1 gram a day of ice for 10 years. Thats a 1000mg a day of crank compared to even the harder Adderall users at 30-40mg a day. Theres no comparison. Even Dexedrine I would say is atleast 3-4 times less potent than Meth (mg for mg). You also have to keep in mind these kids have to see the doc every month to get prescribed this shit...have there blood pressure checked---EKG's heart rate, weight is in check. MOst of all, alot of the strain that is put on an icer is from the side effects of not getting sleep for days upon end and malnutrition. Considering the MEd is being prescribed appropriately, all these aspects are closely monitored and non-existent with amp prescriptiosn.
I agree that this stuff shouldnt be prescribed to young children and there should be a method in place where kids are only given the Med on school days (181 days of the year) but Im not gonna exploit or use selective facts to state that case. Its estimated betwee 500-1000 kids die each year directly from playing "the choking game." for shit sake. And there are 25 collective deaths of kids whom adderall might of contributed to there deaths. http://www.stop-the-choking-game.com/Victims.html
Purity set aside, the distintion people try to make between street speeders and Adderall users is not focused upon the actual drug being ingested---its the fashion and results in which these 2 groups of people usually use the drug.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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I dont think anyone so far has attempted to correlate hard core meth abuser with ADHD preventative kids. Im just stating that the drugs are basically the same and that we have made it ok to use amphetamines but made methamphetamines bad. If you gave a kid time release capsules of the same amount of methamphetamine as was given in amphetamine prescription, I dont think there would be that much of a difference.
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OrizonsHorizon
Stranger
Registered: 10/10/05
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There would be a huge difference because Dexosyn (which I have never seen being prescribed) is alot more potent that adderall. EVen if a time released form of Meth did exist, replacing 10mg once a day for 15mg of adderall in the morning and again in the afternoon would probably be a appropriate compaison. But once again, Meth users wouldnt get such a bad rap if they used the drug with the structure as that of Adderall users (legitamte) If you multiply the dose that any therauputic drug is taken at by the figure in which tweakers use crank compared too Adderall scripts---its gonna be a toxic if not deadly amount. Even take Tylenol...1000mg per day (30mg Dex) compared to 150000mg? (450mg Meth) If APAP was recreational at 15000-20000mg instead of just flat out killing you, maybe it would get a bad rap too.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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In 1994, a national high school survey indicated that more seniors in the US abuse ritalin than are prescribed ritalin. that is more than 10 years ago!
I have yet to meet one college student that doesnt snort Adderall. These drugs are made so easily available... keep in mind all the people who have died and will die from taking these drugs under the guise of being "good" and "ok".
There is not one definitive study which scientifically proves that ADD/ADHD is caused by bad brain chemistry.
In 1995 The US manufactured and consumed five times more MPH (ritalin) than the rest of the world COMBINED.
we are just one big amphetamine loving country!
and what is the difference of quoting dosage if all these people have died so far on the PRESCRIBED dosage? atleast with meth you know what you are taking, you know that it is bad and you arent under the impression that it is just "balancing you out".
Both drugs have been used for theraputic and medicinal purposes, and both are being equally abused.
let me ask you this.... would you be ok taking meth at 10mg a day for years? or would you feel better taking 30 mg a day of amphetamines? what if I wanted to put your child on 10mg of methamphetamine a day.... what would you say to that?
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Dmonikal
Bareback up inthis neden
Registered: 09/06/04
Posts: 474
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You can do rails of Ritalin and it will get you high. Adderal itself IS Amphetamine just called something else so people will take speed as a prescription. Amphetamine and drugs similar to them (ephedrine, methcathanone, cathanone, meth, coke, nicotine, MDMA, Methylphenidate (Ritalin), caffeine, etc etc. Certainly will cause heart attacks and strokes at high doses. For those taking Adderal (literally amphetamine) you ARE taking crank, expect the same problems related to it. The pharmaceutical companies love to confuse people with fancy names. I mean seriously would you give your child a prescription for pure amphetamine if you knew what it was. Soulless bastards.
-------------------- Give your money or your life Take 'em both for all I care Dump your bullets right here
Edited by Dmonikal (02/11/06 03:48 PM)
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onetime
onetime
Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 3,609
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: Dmonikal]
#5289211 - 02/11/06 04:13 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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This just proves that its not the methly group that makes meth bad. its the ampetimine part. I hear asprin is made by addeding the methly group to spearment so That also proves that its not the methly group. If the media or some one would inform the parents that ampetimine and methampetimine only very by the methly group being added whos effect is that the human body has to work harder and longer to brake it down and matabolize it.
-------------------- See? Yes, with my own three eyes. Depression, Misspells , wanting everying thing i cant have haveing nothing i want
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OrizonsHorizon
Stranger
Registered: 10/10/05
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Last seen: 17 years, 13 days
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: onetime]
#5289562 - 02/11/06 05:53 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
In 1994, a national high school survey indicated that more seniors in the US abuse ritalin than are prescribed ritalin. that is more than 10 years ago!
This statistic basically states that for every person who is prescribed Ritalin?there are another 2 whom have tried it atleast once without a prescription (in other words, abused) 100% of those kids whom smoke Mariguana (outside the California clinics) are abusing the drug.
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I have yet to meet one college student that doesnt snort Adderall.
and what is the difference of quoting dosage if all these people have died so far on the PRESCRIBED dosage?
I list dosages because people use the epidemic of Crystal Meth for grounds to presecuute adderall?and it is just not an adequate comparison. I also don?t consider the above quotes as grounds to accuse the drug because you are citing people who are abusing-outsourcing a chemical that medicine is intending for another purpose. NO more than I can accuse Walgreens, the FDA, or ROBOtussin for OTC cough syrup that some ignorant fuks choose to fry there brain with a 600mg+ Dex habit. Look at the Dmonikals statement ?Of you are on adderall?you are doing crank? that?s the mindset of the ignorant and it drives the propaganda machine just as much as Pharm companies drive theres'.
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There is not one definitive study which scientifically proves that ADD/ADHD is caused by bad brain chemistry
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There hardly exists any definite studies that scientifically proves bad brain chemistry with any psychological disorder from ADD to Schizophrenia.
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In 1995 The US manufactured and consumed five times more MPH (ritalin) than the rest of the world COMBINED.
Medicine is advanced in the US that is no secret?you will find statistics such as this consistent with all medicine when comparing US > World.
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Both drugs have been used for theraputic and medicinal purposes, and both are being equally abused.
25 deaths out of 2,500,000-3,000,000?and I cant justify that, nobody can but this is often the argument anti-Cns stimulant advocates usually fall back upon ?For the children? ?Tell there parents how there death?s were vindicate? Yet, there are ratios much more devastating than those for pharms on the market that don?t get much attention. These statistics are just a relative as that of allergic reactions?unusual individual reaction.
I do believe the fashion in which these drugs are being prescribed today needs revision (those 25 deaths could have been avoided if the doc monitored vitals) I think the choice should be moreso in the hands of those whom are being prescribed the drug once they?ve reached an age where they can make an educated informed decision.. But that?s more of a fight between politicians, FDA and MD management ---not between society and Ampheatimes. These drugs already have the most restricted form of regulation put on them that?s on paper---unless you intend these CNSS?s to be listed as a Schedule I?theres nowhere else for them to go.
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let me ask you this.... would you be ok taking meth at 10mg a day for years? or would you feel better taking 30 mg a day of amphetamines? what if I wanted to put your child on 10mg of methamphetamine a day.... what would you say to that?
Im not aware of the effects of Dexosyn so whether or not Id be OK with myself being on 10mg of Meth for years depends moreso on it?s effectiveness rather than the principle of it being Meth. I don?t hold any resentment towards Meth than I do adderall as along as the person receiving the MED is being closely monitored by a Doc each month and that person is of age where he can assess the dangers/benefits and make a informed decision from there.
My 16yr old brother whom is on 20mg adderall per day needs a consultation each month where all vitals are taken and he's asked about negative sideeffects b4 he is authorized the script...he knows the risks and doesnt take on weekends or holdidays. Thats the correct way these drugs should be prescribed/administed---IM not gonna be put into a position where I have to defend doctors exploiting the MEd or college kids snorting amps off the black market. That battle doesnt exists on this forum of legislation
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Infrared
sleeping
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 12,988
Loc: Chicago, USA
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: Dmonikal]
#5289588 - 02/11/06 06:08 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Dmonikal said: You can do rails of Ritalin and it will get you high. Adderal itself IS Amphetamine just called something else so people will take speed as a prescription. Amphetamine and drugs similar to them (ephedrine, methcathanone, cathanone, meth, coke, nicotine, MDMA, Methylphenidate (Ritalin), caffeine, etc etc. Certainly will cause heart attacks and strokes at high doses. For those taking Adderal (literally amphetamine) you ARE taking crank, expect the same problems related to it. The pharmaceutical companies love to confuse people with fancy names. I mean seriously would you give your child a prescription for pure amphetamine if you knew what it was. Soulless bastards.
haha.. whatd you do copy and paste that from some other website ... you lost all credibility with " adderall itself is amphetamine" .. cause adderall itself is a combonation of three different amphetamine analouges,dextro-amp levo-amp r-amp there is no regular amphetamine in adderall.
-------------------- When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry
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Infrared
sleeping
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 12,988
Loc: Chicago, USA
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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annoying ... ditch the all yellow lettering dOOd
-------------------- When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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It isnt just 25 people who have died from these drugs.... that is just the recent group from Adderall XR.
It isnt curing anything, it is abating mental problems under the guise of legitimate health care. There is no difference between some depressed or nervous guy doing meth to "norm him out" than there is a high school student taking amphetamines to "normal him out".
It is an unneccesary drug which is highly over prescribed and made extremely easy to get. You no longer have to be a psychiatrist to prescribe amphetamines (schedule 2 drug I might add) to a 3 year old, you only have to be a regular MD.
Amphetamines have been packaged and marketed thousands of different ways over the years, sold legally to people to cure everything from slight coughs to tennis elbow.
read up on the history of some of these pharm corps... like Merck, which initially developed and manufactured amphetamines for nazi soldiers, and since then has changed the trendy drug name and its supposed cure and sold it.
1 in 4 children in America right now is on some sort of amphetamine. 1 in 4.... those are pretty fucked up odds.... I mean, we as a human race have really somehow magically evolved within one generation to having 25% of our offspring have this amazingly inexplicable genetic predisposition to not being able to concentrate.
It isnt about drug abuse, it is about medicating children, as young as 3 years old, with schedule 2 drugs so that they can study better. Are you honestly condoning that type of justification? I can imagine plenty of drugs which can help you study better, but I would be jailed for giving it to a kid.
It is a quick fix and a wrong assumption... efficacy is not the only thing which should get a drug through the FDA, even in the face of unknown causes we give children drugs with side effects, which all claim to only "treat symptoms" while in the same breath give a long list of side-effects.
i dont think our children are sick, our society is sick, and we are trying to get the quick effortless fix and all the while placing our children in harms way due to our laziness and ignorance regarding the situation. Dont you get it? we are saying that kid A is normal, because he can sit there with his hands folded and read a book, and that Kid B is a genetic freak because he cannot act perfectly uniform as Kid A. Maybe it is our approach towards education and the hollywood bastardized vision of what is normal and happy that needs to change, and not the drugging of children under false advertising and buzz words.
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OrizonsHorizon
Stranger
Registered: 10/10/05
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Last seen: 17 years, 13 days
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>>medicating children, as young as 3 years old, with schedule 2 drugs so that they can study better. Are you honestly condoning that type of justification?
If you actually read my response, you would of noticed that I do have a conflict with how these drugs are being prescribed...but that is not a variance with amphetamines in and of itself---thats a discord of idiosyncratic practices that exist with modern day medicine and social dogma. Im not gonna hold amphetamine legality accountalbe because some Doc prescribed some guy DEX for "tennis elbow" no more than Im gonna hold the legality of narcotics accountable for some DOc prescribing Oxycontin for a hangnail or Xanax for Diareha....if that shit is happening then they need to be addressed individiually.
All psychiatric drugs provide no Cure---its all treatemnt. My cousin takes Dilantin for eppilepsy and probably will have to his whole life..thats a treatment. Are you saying a MED needs a cure in order to be prescribed? Than go after every other SSRI-ANti-psyhotic, opiade drug on the market.
Let me ask you this: IF amphetamines were never a recreational drug, the nazis were never prescribed them and the negative Documentation for MEth abusers never existed, would you still have such a resentment with CNS stimulanrs as you do now? Is ADD overly diagnosed and amps overly prescribed? Perhaps---but there are people whom truly do benefit from this medication and any more legislative restriction would deprive those that is does help. The focus needs no be shifted away from the substance of the drug and more towards these individual cases of malpractice.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Quote:
All psychiatric drugs provide no Cure---its all treatemnt. My cousin takes Dilantin for eppilepsy and probably will have to his whole life..thats a treatment. Are you saying a MED needs a cure in order to be prescribed? Than go after every other SSRI-ANti-psyhotic, opiade drug on the market.
if you frequented the health forum here you would see that I do.
Quote:
Let me ask you this: IF amphetamines were never a recreational drug, the nazis were never prescribed them and the negative Documentation for MEth abusers never existed, would you still have such a resentment with CNS stimulanrs as you do now?
YES! as I said in my previous post, my problem mainly focuses on the fact that our search for the cause, or root, of these problems is facetious. It has no scientific proof after 20 years, yet we still try to go down the same path to discover the root. My main problem with this whole ordeal is the drugging of children due to capitalism and ignorance. Psychiatry has a horrible history of being completely wrong regarding mental health. Until 1992, they claimed that homosexuality was a mental disease. 1992! I could understand that from 1975 doctors, but only until 13 or so years ago did they finally say they were completely wrong.
Dont you think that the cause and effect is backwards in all this? this is the way I see it: we have a society, which has illusory rules that dictate what is normal and "mentally stable", and we attempt to make everyone fit that mold, not loosely, but very strictly... to the point that if a child does not raise his/her hand to speak in school, they can be prescribed schedule 2 drugs.
Isnt it easier to say that our rigid rules of society are the faulty concepts, being man-made and all, and not our children, or our brains? It is as if we have taken our definition of what is normal more serious and concrete than the actions and behaviours of people.
we are trying to force kids into a social mold which is not indicitave for them to learn, so instead of changing the system, we change the kids biochemistry and drug them into normalcy?
can anyone else say Brave New World?
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Is ADD overly diagnosed and amps overly prescribed? Perhaps---but there are people whom truly do benefit from this medication and any more legislative restriction would deprive those that is does help. The focus needs no be shifted away from the substance of the drug and more towards these individual cases of malpractice.
efficacy alone does not merit the drugging of children. Just because something works (at masking), does not mean it is THE ANSWER.
we arent depriving anyone of anything, there are plenty of street drugs that are exactly the same as Adderall which they can consume if they wish, but it should not be done so under the guise of safety which the FDA is supposed to give us.
Just keep your ear to the ground for the monthly news that comes out regarding black box warnings, FDA advisory panel members being affiliated directly with the drug they are advising on (both of these already happened), and negligence lawsuits with legitimate class action claims.
Im willing to bet you that Adderall is yanked from the market before it turns 2007. we can make an honest wager, witnessed by all these fine shroomerites.
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fresh313
journeyman
Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 2,537
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Quote:
OrizonsHorizon said: There would be a huge difference because Dexosyn (which I have never seen being prescribed) is alot more potent that adderall. EVen if a time released form of Meth did exist, replacing 10mg once a day for 15mg of adderall in the morning and again in the afternoon would probably be a appropriate compaison.
fuck it..
fuck meth.
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fresh313
journeyman
Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 2,537
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Quote:
psilocyberin said: Im willing to bet you that Adderall is yanked from the market before it turns 2007. we can make an honest wager, witnessed by all these fine shroomerites.
ill take that.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: fresh313]
#5291854 - 02/12/06 03:49 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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whatcha wanna wager?
how about the loser has to post whatever the winner wants in avatar, signature and space below name?
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mediman0078
Stilllooking.....
Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 1,379
Loc: Here, there, EVERYWHERE
Last seen: 18 years, 10 days
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That could be embarrassing... TAKE IT! I wanna see what nastiness can come of this...
Edited by mediman0078 (02/12/06 03:54 PM)
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fresh313
journeyman
Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 2,537
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: mediman0078]
#5291886 - 02/12/06 04:00 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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if i win u have to goto the doctor and get an Rx of adderall and give some away during finals or something
ill post whatever u want if i lose , or whatever u wanna wager.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: ADHD Drugs May Kill You [Re: fresh313]
#5292062 - 02/12/06 05:11 PM (18 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
fresh313 said: if i win u have to goto the doctor and get an Rx of adderall and give some away during finals or something
ill post whatever u want if i lose , or whatever u wanna wager.
oh jeez.... doesnt that just prove my point further.... that it is quite feasible for me to "go to the doctor and get a Rx for Adderall"?
I think the terms need to be equal.... I wouldnt ever take Adderall.
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Stonerguy
I smoke penis
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 5,538
Loc: Lost
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Quote:
Isnt it easier to say that our rigid rules of society are the faulty concepts, being man-made and all, and not our children, or our brains? It is as if we have taken our definition of what is normal more serious and concrete than the actions and behaviours of people.
we are trying to force kids into a social mold which is not indicitave for them to learn, so instead of changing the system, we change the kids biochemistry and drug them into normalcy?
This is my 2nd favorite quote from the shroomery now.
I also interprit it as not only kids do we force this on but, we also do it to ourselves and other people of age.
I mean doctors are prescribing pills like they are candy. I swear more than half of the fucking USA population is on some sort of medication that they REALLY don't need.
-------------------- yawn... SG
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