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Invisibleagar
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Re: Ausi Panaeolus Cyanescens - Liquid Culture to Fruits (w/ lots of pictures) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4874963 - 10/31/05 01:55 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

I agree that addition of 30 to 50% chunky verm - to the substrate - is helpfull.


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Re: Ausi Panaeolus Cyanescens - Liquid Culture to Fruits (w/ lots of pictures) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4875362 - 10/31/05 03:50 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

about 1% or 2% of the caps had a light brown spore color




i've never seen that before..!~


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Ausi Panaeolus Cyanescens - Liquid Culture to Fruits (w/ lots of pictures) [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #4875641 - 10/31/05 05:13 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

You still should have tried to print those of a different color, I bet its a rarer thing..I dont really know..but I could think of a few people who would like a print thats not purple, even if its contamed (because they do agar work). Oh well, cool to see anyway..


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Ausi Panaeolus Cyanescens - Liquid Culture to Fruits (w/ lots of pictures) [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4875820 - 10/31/05 05:54 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, even a dirty print is better than no print. I could have easily cleaned it up and sent you back a few sheets of clean brown prints. If you see it happen again, please take a print.


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Ausi Panaeolus Cyanescens - Liquid Culture to Fruits (w/ lots of pictures) [Re: Workman]
    #4875957 - 10/31/05 06:26 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

I have some good new: Workman is going to help isolate the brown-spored strain with some dried specimens! Well, I guess we'll see lots of them soon.


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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Ausi Panaeolus Cyanescens - Liquid Culture to Fruits (w/ lots of pictures) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4876008 - 10/31/05 06:41 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

That is definitely a flush to be proud of! :smile:

I wonder if the gill color was a phenotype from the multispore inoculation.  Was there only the one that you noticed?  Should have cloned that guy.

Great job, great writeup!!

---edit
I just looked at the pic up there again, there is a group of them, awesome!,  I bet a clone would have shown that trait.  Hopefully it wasn't 1 in a million.


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Edited by Olgualion (10/31/05 06:47 PM)


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InvisibleRoadkill
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Re: Ausi Panaeolus Cyanescens - Liquid Culture to Fruits (w/ lots of pictures) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4876011 - 10/31/05 06:42 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Blue Helix said:

I have some good new: Workman is going to help isolate the brown-spored strain with some dried specimens!  Well, I guess we'll see lots of them soon.




Very cool!~

hope this works out.

:smile:


tc


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OfflineRamlaen
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Re: Ausi Panaeolus Cyanescens - Liquid Culture to Fruits (w/ lots of pictures) [Re: Roadkill]
    #4876439 - 10/31/05 08:31 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

# 6.5 parts Agar's special mushroom compost (via dry weight)
# 2 parts WBS (via dry weight)
# 2 parts rye grass seed (via dry weight)
# 3% Stevia leaf (percentage via volume)
# 0.2% black mustard (percentage via volume)

I got everything but Agar's special sauce, Should i just bump up the WBS and rye grass to compensate or is there something better suited?


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Invisibleagar
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Re: Ausi Panaeolus Cyanescens - Liquid Culture to Fruits (w/ lots of pictures) [Re: Ramlaen]
    #4876846 - 10/31/05 10:00 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Not as good as my compost, but you can make do.

Find a few old cow pies. Dissolve them in water until soft & then agitate the hell out of it - to loosen the fibers up & out of the pies. Then pour that out over a screen & catch the fibers, hose them off while on the screen, then dry them out BONE DRY.

Mix those fibers & bone dry weathered h/poo together - so you have about a 50/50 mix. Then add about 30% verm.

Go from there.


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OfflineRamlaen
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Re: Ausi Panaeolus Cyanescens - Liquid Culture to Fruits (w/ lots of pictures) [Re: agar]
    #4876886 - 10/31/05 10:07 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

so when does your compost become avail to the general public?


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Ausi Panaeolus Cyanescens - Liquid Culture to Fruits (w/ lots of pictures) [Re: Ramlaen]
    #4876938 - 10/31/05 10:18 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

agar is right about the vermiculite; you really should use it. Vermiculite makes finding the right moisture content much easier and increases the water retention of the substrate over manure alone. Tiny musrhooms like these really evaporate the water out of the substrate, and without vermiculite, you'll have trouble with those later flushes and getting the substrate rehydrated.

Ramlaen, as far as agar's compost, it's really wonderful, but I do not think it necessary for an equal or better success. Search back a little for scatmanrav's grow of Ausi's a few months ago. He wasn't using agar's magic compost, and his grow was great. I think well sifted, aged manure will work really well. If you are using a sterile spawn bag to inoculate the substrate, then the exact nitrogen content of the substrate is not all that important either so you can rinse it if you like or not.


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Using spawn bags full of sterile fruit out substrate versus regular spawning. [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4877101 - 10/31/05 10:48 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

I have read a few people talk about failures with liquid cultures when trying to inoculate pasteurized bulk substrates, and some might have thought that is what I did in this grow. I did not. I do not recommend using a liquid culture to inoculate anything but sterile substrates; otherwise, you'll strongly risk contamination.

While PF is the best technique for very tiny micro-scale grows, what I did above is the best way I know for medium-to-small scale grows. The technique I have settled on isn't anything new yet often overlooked by the hobbyist because it requires an impulse sealer ($25 on Ebay) and spawn bags (35 cents a piece). Never the less it is the best way I know to grow on a medium scale, which I consider in the tens-of-pounds range. If you are looking for hundreds of pounds--and I hope you are growing edibles or live where psychoactives are legal--you should buy a bobcat fork lift for the huge 50-square-foot trays, hire a bunch of cheap labor to help you out, and spawn out manure beds using grain spawn prepared in the same spawn bags. While you are at it, you might want a barn to help with the compost piles. I know one can use spawn to grow tiny trays, but I really see very little advantage to using jars of grain to spawn out tiny trays unless you really are tight on money. I personally like my mushrooms fast and think that investment in some spawn bags and an impulse sealer are the best one can make in this hobby.

In the technique I use I prepare spawn bags full of the final fruit out substrate. Those bags are loaded into the pressure cooker with the flaps carefully folded down the sides and the last few inches flipped up for easy access later when I have to grab them to seal the bag. The bags should also be loaded separated in the center by lid bands or something like that to allow even steam penetration. All of my bags rest against the side walls of the pressure cooker--no they cannot melt unless you crank up your gas stove really high and the flames lick the sides of the pot. The bags are sterilized for four hours. Once cool enough to touch, I open the pressure cooker in a Oust-sprayed bathroom with silicone gloves and facial mask on and carefully pull up the flaps to seal the bags. I am extremely careful to not allow the flaps to fall apart or allow any air in the bag. Yeah, sometimes I slip up a little but I try my best to not allow any air in them. I then hang the bags up by the top of the plastic in the closet with rubber-footed wood clamps. This allows them to fully cool and self-inflate by their own weight. When done, you have bags that contain totally sterile substrate that is ready for inoculation via liquid culture and then fruit out in trays. I have yet to have a single bag contaminate using this technique!

The beauties of this technique are many: first, you skip the spawn run step that would otherwise take a week or two. Secondly, you can make your final fruit out substrate as rich as you want. In the case of psychedelics, that can mean making stronger mushrooms potentially. Third, you don't have to mess with the details of proper pasteurization which is highly prone to error in my experience. The technique is simply faster and less prone to error than developing grain spawn and spawning out manure.


Edited by Blue Helix (10/31/05 10:55 PM)


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Using spawn bags full of sterile fruit out substrate versus regular spawning. [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4877359 - 10/31/05 11:26 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

I've added a row of pictures for the liquid culture lid sugars and lid making.


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InvisibleEonTan
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Re: Ausi Panaeolus Cyanescens - Liquid Culture to Fruits (w/ lots of pictures) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4877924 - 11/01/05 12:59 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

I have never seen them that brown macro. Just under a scope. They are either black or brown. The ones that I have seen brown spored are much darker then that on the mushroom, just when they are put under the scope they are brown not black( but still opaque). How dark are the brown gilled prints compared with the darker gilled specimens? Got a scope to put them under?

I have never seen purple in any copelandia spore macro or micro view.

I never got a good flush from the auzzies I tried. Only did a single test, and got a few fruits to look at under the scope. They had vey long cystidia only second to the mexican strain, which ironically had the smallest fruits.

I got a few sporeless fruits, occasionally.

Yessups Wild Texas is in the works. Two variants from the wild. Both with large caps, but one with a thin stem, and the other a fat stem. The fat stem one is more vigorous in culture(vegetatively). Only testing a single vigouros isolate from each print, but each on four different substrate mixes. WBS, WBS:RGS, WBS:RGS:BLAKCOW:VERM, and WBS:RGS:BLAKCOW:VERM:SHREEDED STRAW.  The addition of blak cow definetly speeds up things vegetatively. But all were colonized in ten days from agar wedge inoculation. CASED on the 27th each in it's own individual contanier containing 1.5 cups of substrate, with less then a 1/4 inch of casing(miracle grow peat:perlite). Never had any problems with the miracle grow before, so WILMA induced impulse buy, shouldn't do me wrong.

I am also trying to recover the MR.G WILD(unknown), TAI-KS(ralph/MJ), and the Cambodian(sporeworks) from 3-5 year storage (print) at room temp. Those were my favorites too date. Pain in the arse when you got too many to keep up with. MUCHO RESPECT to the vendors and their suppliers for keeping these things going.

sorry for the rant. Great post again Blue Helix. :thumbup:


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Ausi Panaeolus Cyanescens - Liquid Culture to Fruits (w/ lots of pictures) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4878237 - 11/01/05 02:28 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

I have a scope coming in the mail, but I don't have one now. Judging from that third picture, I think the brown spore prints would be just as dark as the greys. Look at how many light brown spores are on those caps relative to the grey ones.


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Ausi Panaeolus Cyanescens - Liquid Culture to Fruits (w/ lots of pictures) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4878484 - 11/01/05 05:44 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Great log. Shame about the green, you had lime in your casing right? I have seen you post warnings against hydrated lime before. On my last grow it worked well for me. I got some new casing material, peat based compost. I was on a bicycle and the peat moss was only sold in massive bags so I got it instead. I now think its ph may have been neutral from the start. I used less hydrated lime than normal but it didnt colonised it well. I took some of the casing off and spread it on another tray. The first tray is now pinning but has barely started to colonise the casing.

Anyway, you say you can probably get 30% the yeild that you would get with cubensis. If it is 4-5 times stronger and faster to colonise then you are getting more acutal actives with the same effort. Does anybody else find this? What is a typical BE for pan cyans? I know cubes are said to be ~200%


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Re: Ausi Panaeolus Cyanescens - Liquid Culture to Fruits (w/ lots of pictures) [Re: blackout]
    #4878518 - 11/01/05 06:22 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for the info, After reading it through a few times i think I finally understand your grow :smile:  I'll be posting my log once i begin in the next week or so, still some more preplanning to do.  It looks as though I'll be buying an impulse sealer


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OfflineRamlaen
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Re: Ausi Panaeolus Cyanescens - Liquid Culture to Fruits (w/ lots of pictures) [Re: Ramlaen]
    #4878524 - 11/01/05 06:34 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Where are you buying your bags for the sealer, and how wide of a sealer do I need?


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Re: Ausi Panaeolus Cyanescens - Liquid Culture to Fruits (w/ lots of pictures) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #4879063 - 11/01/05 12:25 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

blackout, the casing was properly pH-balanced. Green mold comes from overly wet conditions. All peat-moss-based casings have green mold spores in them or, even if sterilized, can easily contamiate if subject to the wrong environment. The grower's job is to prevent mold by keeping the humidity and watering levels in check. I didn't do that and that's why the green mold happened.


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Re: Ausi Panaeolus Cyanescens - Liquid Culture to Fruits (w/ lots of pictures) [Re: Ramlaen]
    #4879099 - 11/01/05 12:34 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Ramlaen, you can get large spawn bags at The Spore Works for inexpensively. They well 100 for $30 and 50 for around $17. You want the ones with the filter patch but without the injection port. The injection port is way overpriced and the same effect can be had by using a duct tape covered by masking tape over a patch of the bag. The duct tape is for strength; the masking tape is to prevent the duct tape from melting to the cooker's insides. There are dozens of better spongy tapes that would work, but this is just what I used because I had it around. Once the bags cool and you've hung them to self-inflate, inject in the tape reinforcement, pull out the needle, and immediately squirt some hot glue over the tape keeping it level so the glue blob cools without running down the side of the bag. The final look of the hot-glue-sealed tape is like this:



You want and impulse sealer that seals at least 2mm or 3mm wide seals. The length of the seal for large spawn bags should be 12 inches--technically 8 inches might work but I wouldn't recommend it. Ebay has vendors selling those for about $25.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation >> Mushroom Cultivation Archive >> Panaeolus

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