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InvisibleSwami
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9/11 vs. car accidents vs. gangs
    #4444176 - 07/23/05 08:42 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Around 3000 people died on 9/11 which was certainly tragic. Since then billions upon billions have been spent with unknown affect.

Since 9/11 about 150,000 Americans have died in car accidents. *yawn* No biggee and no new action taken. Am I comparing apples to oranges? Perhaps (but death is still death no matter the cause), so let's focus elsewhere.

What measures are being used to stop the thousands of gang-related deaths every year? I am way more likely to die by the hand of an American gang member than a foreign terrorist. Is that somehow more acceptable?

Is it the fear of yet more racial profiling? It would certainly not be difficult to shut down the gangs in LA or Las Vegas or other big cities, but politicians face a backlash so do not focus on this.

Does it not make sense to spend money proportional to our KNOWN greatest danger(s)?


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: 9/11 vs. car accidents vs. gangs [Re: Swami]
    #4444561 - 07/23/05 10:10 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Around 3000 people died on 9/11 which was certainly tragic. Since then billions upon billions have been spent with unknown affect.

Since 9/11 about 150,000 Americans have died in car accidents. *yawn* No biggee and no new action taken. Am I comparing apples to oranges?




Are you suggesting that we should ban cars?






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Invisiblemoog
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Re: 9/11 vs. car accidents vs. gangs [Re: Swami]
    #4444579 - 07/23/05 10:15 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Politics is all about feelings and emotions, and rarely involves logic.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: 9/11 vs. car accidents vs. gangs [Re: Swami]
    #4444591 - 07/23/05 10:21 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Damage doesn't actually matter; it's simply a case of pride. Car accidents are inevitable; gangs have been around so long they're simply ignored by most people. But a terrorist attack like 9/11 made America realize that it wasn't isolated or immortal to "terrorism", and so America retaliated with as much force as it could gather.

If we actually focused on what did damage, then the world would be putting trillions into fighting HIV, tuberculosis and malaria, which kill at least 6 million every year put together, as opposed to terrorism or illegal drugs, which kill a miniscule fraction of that number.


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InvisibleTheHateCamel
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Re: 9/11 vs. car accidents vs. gangs [Re: Swami]
    #4444637 - 07/23/05 10:37 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe I'm reaching here, BUT isn't it common knowledge that if there's not jumbo cash or wide spread fear to be made politicians wont come within sight distance of promotiong a solution to a serious problem?

CLICK IT OR TICKET, swami.


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OfflineTwister
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Re: 9/11 vs. car accidents vs. gangs [Re: Swami]
    #4444688 - 07/23/05 10:58 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Good points. I think a big reason people latch on to the whole anti-terror initiative is because its easy to think that terror is a defeatable foe. People see us attacking the countries that "harbor terrorism" and then they equate the fact that there haven't been any attacks on American soil since 9/11 with success in the war on terror. Really though terrorism is based on secretive attacks, usually taking place years apart. So the longer between attacks the better it seems from the victim's perspective, while at the same time it means that the terror organizations have actually had more time to plan, gather resources, and train.

Car accidents and gang violence are going to take place daily no matter how much we put into preventing them.


Edited by Twister351 (07/23/05 10:58 PM)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: 9/11 vs. car accidents vs. gangs [Re: Swami]
    #4444732 - 07/23/05 11:13 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Guess how many people die each year from poor hospital sanitation.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: 9/11 vs. car accidents vs. gangs [Re: Swami]
    #4444770 - 07/23/05 11:22 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
It would certainly not be difficult to shut down the gangs in LA or Las Vegas or other big cities, but politicians face a backlash so do not focus on this.



Haha what? You are claiming it would not be difficult to shut down the gangs in LA? I would love to hear more clarification on this.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: 9/11 vs. car accidents vs. gangs [Re: TheCow]
    #4444781 - 07/23/05 11:28 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TheCow said:
Quote:

Swami said:
It would certainly not be difficult to shut down the gangs in LA or Las Vegas or other big cities, but politicians face a backlash so do not focus on this.



Haha what? You are claiming it would not be difficult to shut down the gangs in LA? I would love to hear more clarification on this.



Guliani did a hell of a job cleaning up New York. I'm sure it can be done in L.A. as well.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: 9/11 vs. car accidents vs. gangs [Re: Silversoul]
    #4444821 - 07/23/05 11:46 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

We should make Guliani be mayor of Iraq for us.


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: 9/11 vs. car accidents vs. gangs [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4444942 - 07/24/05 12:19 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

More people Americans die every year from not wearing seat belts than die in our war in Iraq. It is refreshing to sometimes put these numbers in perspective.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: 9/11 vs. car accidents vs. gangs [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4444964 - 07/24/05 12:27 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Guess how many people die each year from poor hospital sanitation.

I'm with you. Let's start a War on Hospitals!


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: 9/11 vs. car accidents vs. gangs [Re: TheCow]
    #4444993 - 07/24/05 12:38 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Haha what? You are claiming it would not be difficult to shut down the gangs in LA? I would love to hear more clarification on this.

It would be politically impossible and some innocents would get caught up, but using less extreme measures than in Iraq, honestly, how difficult would it be to mass incarcerate without trial those flying colors or sporting gang tats or going door to door with armed militia and no warrants to check for guns, drugs and signs of gang affiliation?

Do you truly think the police are unaware of who the gang leaders and lieutenants are, or is it they just do not have the legal means to shut them down?

What I am saying if the same force was behind it as is the war on foreign terror, the results would be immediate and noticeable. Hell, so many gang members get off from murder charges because they threaten witnesses (and mean it) that to testify is to die. Is this not urban terror?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: 9/11 vs. car accidents vs. gangs [Re: Swami]
    #4445039 - 07/24/05 12:52 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Well the war on terror is a war on people of other countries for the most part, this gives us the supposed right to fuck with them all we want. What you are talking about is a war on American civilians, whether they be armed or not, wear gang colors or not. Sure the police know the ring leaders, but if they do not have enough evidence then I am all for letting them continue running the gangs. Maybe silly of me, but I am sort of insane I guess, so deal with that and people like me.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: 9/11 vs. car accidents vs. gangs [Re: TheCow]
    #4445183 - 07/24/05 01:26 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Try to read exactly what was written rather than what you think I wrote.

Point out the part where I said I would endorse such methods.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: 9/11 vs. car accidents vs. gangs [Re: Swami]
    #4445266 - 07/24/05 01:43 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I like it.


What we need are armies of vigilante militia to take out obvious gang members with high calibur sniper rifles.

That way at least they can't be open about what they are.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: 9/11 vs. car accidents vs. gangs [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4445279 - 07/24/05 01:50 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

We should dig up and clone Charles Bronson for "Death Wish 2005".


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: 9/11 vs. car accidents vs. gangs [Re: Swami]
    #4445355 - 07/24/05 02:24 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

We would have a better chance getting a viable sample from David Carradine.

He could run most of them over with his car and Kung-Fu the rest.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072856/


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: 9/11 vs. car accidents vs. gangs [Re: Swami]
    #4445494 - 07/24/05 03:09 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Haha what? You are claiming it would not be difficult to shut down the gangs in LA? I would love to hear more clarification on this.

It would be politically impossible and some innocents would get caught up, but using less extreme measures than in Iraq, honestly, how difficult would it be to mass incarcerate without trial those flying colors or sporting gang tats or going door to door with armed militia and no warrants to check for guns, drugs and signs of gang affiliation?

Do you truly think the police are unaware of who the gang leaders and lieutenants are, or is it they just do not have the legal means to shut them down?

What I am saying if the same force was behind it as is the war on foreign terror, the results would be immediate and noticeable. Hell, so many gang members get off from murder charges because they threaten witnesses (and mean it) that to testify is to die. Is this not urban terror?




Quote:

Swami said:
Try to read exactly what was written rather than what you think I wrote.

Point out the part where I said I would endorse such methods.



Swami, when I am debating someone online, I act is if I am talking to that person. If what you wrote was not your own opinion then I have no use for debating you. I have no use to debate some third person that is never tacitly referred to or even made explicitly clear that I am debating 'not you'.
You said, "What I am saying if the same force was behind it as is the war on foreign terror, the results would be immediate and noticeable."
Are you implying that this is merely one approach and not what you think, and you are just 'saying' this because it is a possibile situation? If this is the case then I guess I cannot argue against you, but if it is not, then you stated that if we used the same force that we use in Iraq against gangs then the results would be immediate. In your earlier post you stated that we could fix the gang problem, then in this post you offer an way we could do that.
My post said 'what you are talking about', now if what my post stated isnt what you were talking about then I apologize. However I am quite certain it is, and using your same sense of sick love for semantics I have to ask you where I ever stated that I thought YOU felt that we should use force against civilians like we do in Iraq.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: 9/11 vs. car accidents vs. gangs [Re: TheCow]
    #4445549 - 07/24/05 03:30 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

The point of my thread was NOT to jerk you or anyone else around, but to point out the discrepancy that the USA uses in dealing with somewhat similiar problems (internal vs. external terrorism).


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