Home | Community | Message Board


Out-Grow.com - Mushroom Growing Kits & Supplies
Please support our sponsors.

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Autoclave, Paul Stamets, Rye Grain, Wild Bird Seed

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
Invisibleagar
old hand
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
Trusted Cultivator
SHAKING SPAWN BAGS & JARS
    #4439462 - 07/22/05 08:34 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

The purpose of "shaking" a spawn container, is to increase overall colonization speeds towards complete colonization.

Shaking simply spreads/mixes/disperses already colonized seed/grains  into uncolonized seed/grains, and colonization spreads exponentially throughout the content from hundreds of contact points, rather than only a few.

Consequently,  "shaking" often results in complete colonization 30 to 50% faster than if the container had not been shaken.

When should you "shake" a colonizing spawn container?

Ideally, a colonizing spawn container should be shaken only ONCE, and only enough to break apart, and  redistribute the content when it appears to 20% colonized.

The potential pitfalls of "shaking".

Mycelium consists of extremely fragile gossamer like threads of living tissue so fine that a single gram can contain more than a kilometer or mile of filament,  if it were in a straight line.



"Shaking" batters  colonized mycelium coated seed/grains with a force equal to a strong athlete battering YOU repeatedly with a baseball bat, then tossing YOU around, as hard as he can, as if you were a golf ball.

Under ideal conditions mycelium regenerates (heals) quickly, then begins grow outward rapidly throughout the spawn container.

Under less than ideal conditions, (no, or poor gas exchange, poor seed/grain combinations, excessive oil seeds, inadequate or excessive moisture content, to high or low of an incubation temperature) mycelium cannot regenerate (heal) quickly. Given repeated "shaking" (injury) under less than ideal conditions mycelium sometimes fails to regenerate, and colonization can slow or completely halt. :mad2:

With the general exception of low incubation temperatures, IF any negative variable causes spawn colonization to completely halt, it will most often never fully recover, nor completely colonize the container content. :eek:

Of course, as in life - there are always numerous exceptions - for any number of unexplainable reasons. Some shake a spawn container immediately after inoculation, then every other, or 3rd day, and the container completely colonizes - anyway. Others shake a container once, and  colonization completely halts, most often caused by inadequate moisture content.

No matter how anxious, or curious you are. Ponder that the spawn container you use is a protective gas exchange filtered micro-environment that contains a sterile nutrient medium (seed/grains) into which you have injected a single strain of spores. In the hope those spores will germinate, then completely colonize the content as rapidly as possible - without contamination.

Every time  you unnecessarily handle a spawn container - you increase the chance of  contaminating the filter medium, agitating, irritating , or damaging the content. The more often you unnecessarily pick up, handle, inspect,  tilt, eyeball, poke, fondle or shake a spawn container. It is you that are dramatically increasing the potential that any number of things may-can-will go dreadfully wrong.

Assuming you have an uncontaminated syringe, and all else is within reasonable parameters - spores will germinate, and mycelium will grow as rapidly as conditions allow - without your intervention.

Other than that single "shaking", so long as you maintain adequate incubation temperatures,  mycelium doesn?t want, need, or require your help, to colonize seed/grains as proficiently as possible.

Your own anxiety, curiosity and intrusions are a hindrance, rather than helpful.

For a more graphic example, imagine you and your mate are in the middle of passionate sexual intercourse (like mycelium colonizing), then some huge set of unwashed hands opens your bedroom door, grasps you both, lifts you both out of bed,  turns you round and round, upside down, side to side, breathing millions of possible contaminates all over you both, leering & peering at you from every angle.

I doubt such interference would be helpful to completing the act - in which you were so enjoyably engaged, just moments ago.

Not to mention, tomorrow you may both come down with a green colored mold skin rash contacted from the unwashed hands that just groped you, plus lung congesting flu - from thousands of virus spores exhaled all over you while you were being groped.

GET THE PICTURE? :rolleyes:

That is about the equivalent of what you do to a spawn container - every time - you handle one - unnecessarily.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBetaDelta
Stranger
Male
Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 656
Last seen: 5 months, 29 days
Re: SHAKING SPAWN BAGS & JARS [Re: agar]
    #4439620 - 07/22/05 09:28 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Very intresting, it's nice to have one post with all that in one place! :thumbup:
Take care


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinethremix
Big Spender

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 722
Loc: Temple of Boom
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: SHAKING SPAWN BAGS & JARS [Re: BetaDelta]
    #4439731 - 07/22/05 09:48 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

YES. I killed 2 bags this way.


--------------------
http://www.gainesvilleps.org/
_____________________________________

Dale Carnegie, once said that he never needed to know any thing about any thing because he knew EVERY thing. Any time he didn't know some thing, he asked, he asked his team, his friends, And most important he asked the person that would know the answer.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSilverr
Stranger

Registered: 06/10/05
Posts: 95
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: SHAKING SPAWN BAGS & JARS [Re: thremix]
    #4440462 - 07/23/05 12:16 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup:Brilliant, great post.


--------------------
"The only easy day was yesterday"


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBobo
Tongue
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 3,437
Loc: Next to Kitty (Yahweh)
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: SHAKING SPAWN BAGS & JARS [Re: agar]
    #4440968 - 07/23/05 02:33 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

For DIY spawnbags, with polyfil or tyvek with a coffee filter over top, there seems to be the chance for poor gas exchange because the "neck" of the bag (pvc piping with the filter on it) sort of limps over so the bag can nearly collapse on itself and appears to essentially/mostly cut off gas exchange. 

For these bags, is it helpful to "pump" the filter pvc "neck" a couple of times a day without actually disturbing the grain to help gas exchange? 

Don't want the grain to go anerobic, but, not sure how much gas exchange is required with bags (learning to use bags right now :blush:).

Thanks.


--------------------
OneMoreRobot3021 said:
the pub mods are a cancer on our society as a whole.
pantsboy said:
Do kittens contain mescaline?  Because they should.

My GF & ME :heart:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleagar
old hand
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
Trusted Cultivator
Re: SHAKING SPAWN BAGS & JARS [Re: Bobo]
    #4441450 - 07/23/05 04:31 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Yo Bobo,

If you are just learning about bags. Take note, PVC pipe as a bag neck warps / sags / bends & emits somewhat toxic gas - under sterilization range heat of any more than 20 minutes.

The least expensive alternative is a metal soup or vegetable can - with both ends removed - for single use.

Even better is to go to any large electrical supply place & buy a 10 foot length of 3 inch bore thin wall electrical conduit. Then cut it into about 4 inch pieces, and buff off any sharp edges on the lips. Those will last you for years.

To keep a somewhat heavy bag neck from sagging down & deflating the bag, simply use a thick rubber band to keep them held upright & attach the rubber bands to the upper edge of the box you incubate your bags in.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBobo
Tongue
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 3,437
Loc: Next to Kitty (Yahweh)
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: SHAKING SPAWN BAGS & JARS [Re: agar]
    #4441534 - 07/23/05 04:59 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Interesting.  Thanks for the tips.  :laugh:

I was going off of hippie3's mycotopia pictorial DIY spawnbags. 

:lol:  I've got all of these autoclave bags (bastards make you buy in bulk :smirk: ) and I want to use them for edibles, actually.  Hmmm. 

I will find a better neck rigging then. 

But, as to the heart of my question: 

I don't understand what role gas exchange plays in mycelial development.  Stamets recommends some odd air exchange intervals for a given species.  I'm thinking, "How in the hell do you do air exchange on a quart jar or spawn bag?"

So, that's what's prompting my question.  Jars appear to do okay with no agitation...the air/CO2--and this is from a layman--appears to just sit there.  I don't see how having a tyvek filter on a quart jar is going to give gas exchange to a substrate that's below the filter given CO2 is heavier than air.

So, for spawnbags, I don't understand what role gas exchange plays. 

I'm guessing I haven't played around with enough jars/bags to see some fail for poor gas exchange vs. others that do well with decent gas exchange. 

Any wisdom, oh, Sphinx of Mycology? :wink:


--------------------
OneMoreRobot3021 said:
the pub mods are a cancer on our society as a whole.
pantsboy said:
Do kittens contain mescaline?  Because they should.

My GF & ME :heart:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleagar
old hand
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
Trusted Cultivator
Re: SHAKING SPAWN BAGS & JARS [Re: Bobo]
    #4441599 - 07/23/05 05:24 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

READ WHAT Lou has to say on the subject. of bag filters & gas exchange. Stamets buys his filter/patch bags - from Lou.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: SHAKING SPAWN BAGS & JARS [Re: agar]
    #4441864 - 07/23/05 09:00 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Lou? Do you mean BlueLou on the forum? I dont think that guy uses bags for anything so I dont think so..lol

Anyways, excellent post as usual. It goes to show, as simple as this hobby is, it is still an art, and there is still a technique for every single brush stroke to be followed, if you want to create an artwork..


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleagar
old hand
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
Trusted Cultivator
Re: SHAKING SPAWN BAGS & JARS [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4444178 - 07/23/05 08:43 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Lou owns UNICORN BAG.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinetoadstools
great googelymoogely
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/09/05
Posts: 57
Loc: FL USA
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: SHAKING SPAWN BAGS & JARS [Re: agar]
    #4444360 - 07/23/05 09:31 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Many thanks Agar for a very informative post. Unfortunately I just shook all 6 of my WBS jars of PE yesterday. I did it with great concern as to if I was doing the right thing as they were colonizing faster than I could have even imagined. Now the jars have an almost overlayed type of appearance, very solid white looking instead of the long ropey appearance that they did have. Hopefully they will come back to life, and next time I believe I will just let nature take its course, in most cases it does just fine without human intervention.  :wink:
Thanks Again
Toadstools


--------------------
:mushroom2: :heart: :sun: Meddle, Meddle, Friend of mine, All good things in all good time! :sun: :heart: :mushroom2:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFlurbDurb
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 47
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: SHAKING SPAWN BAGS & JARS [Re: agar]
    #8978145 - 09/24/08 02:18 PM (6 years, 28 days ago)

Great post.  I just shook a 3lb rye bag when it was 35% colonized on it's own.  I hope I didn't do too much damage.  Although I do have an incubation chamber which maintains a temperature between 82 and 86 degrees.


--------------------
Disclaimer: I do not buy, sell, cultivate, manufacture, or use any illegal substance. Any postings I make on this forum are purely for entertainment purposes. Any pictures that I may post have been created by artificial means from images gathered from the internet and other sources. Any statements made should not be considered truthful.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblear393
old timer
Male
Registered: 01/27/00
Posts: 696
Loc: NYC, NY, US
Re: SHAKING SPAWN BAGS & JARS [Re: FlurbDurb]
    #8978181 - 09/24/08 02:28 PM (6 years, 28 days ago)

1) why are bumping a 3 year old post?
2) your temps are too high, you really don't want your incubator (if you choose to use one) to go over 80. there is heat being generated inside the rye bag that you are not acounting for (a couple of degrees) and the old 86 degree optimum is now understood to be closer to 82.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Autoclave, Paul Stamets, Rye Grain, Wild Bird Seed

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* ok got my spawn bags and spores now have q's joker_66599 1,247 17 12/09/06 03:37 PM
by GoldenTeacher418
* All American Pressure cookers and spawn bag capacities *DELETED* PJDIDDLE 916 5 06/13/07 08:35 AM
by Babo911
* Water in Spawn Bag Gatorade 655 6 04/10/06 09:33 PM
by Gatorade
* Spore to Rye to Pre-Pasteurized Manure Based Growing Substrate in Spawn Bags (Mycobags) BPEmpire 5,635 3 10/01/08 06:16 PM
by BPEmpire
* Switch to Spawn Bags?
( 1 2 all )
Magic_Hobo 869 21 12/29/08 05:47 AM
by anakin3197
* why do people use spawn bags?
( 1 2 all )
shirley knott 4,857 34 08/30/03 12:03 PM
by OJK
* Spawn Bag casing quarkyquasar 1,429 6 07/24/03 09:33 PM
by hyper_dermic
* How many cc's in a 3lb spawn bag of millet? Shake or not? goose2r 2,192 11 01/20/09 05:34 PM
by shroober

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Magash, Shroomism, george castanza, Prisoner#1, RogerRabbit, Citric, total, FooMan, 13shrooms, stonesun, EvilMushroom666, Javadog, cronicr, PussyFart
2,409 topic views. 20 members, 89 guests and 2 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
World Seed Supply
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2014 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.031 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 32 queries.