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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Meditating on cubes........ [Re: Sinbad]
    #4356333 - 06/30/05 05:01 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)



What kind of evidence are you looking for. I'm talking from personal experience, so i am my own evidence. I'm sure many others who made the same mistakes as i did would also share their experience. I have already given analogies in past posts on this thread of why Vajrayana Buddhism requires that one have the instructions and initiations from a qualified guru. Go back and read because im not going to repeat myself.


That's a single example. You can't base assumptions about the causes of such things based on single examples. There are many people who practice these things in many different ways and the vast majority have no such problems.

What I asked for was evidence that people who engage in Vajrayana Buddhism the same way you do are less likely to experience these negative effects than those who practice it differently. Simply because YOU had these negative effects while practicing it differently proves nothing.


The history as we know it, is still within the age of the Kali Yuga according to Indian calculations and Tibetan ones also, that derive there sources from scriptures written by many spiritual masters and realized beings (whether you believe in such beings or not).

That part is fair enough, if it's true however...

And all signs point to things getting progressively worse, with regard to spiritual corruption that is.

What signs? I don't see any evidence that corruption is greater now than at any time in history. This is a common belief amongst people, always has been, no matter what time period it is. There's even a psychological term for the belief that the world is generally getting worse, I wish I could find a source for that right now...

Anyways, simply stating that does not make it so. Do you have any evidence to justify that belief?

I'm not talking about fiction fantasy worlds. You may see it that way, but that just your opinion, which is derived from lack of interest and actual experience of what is being referred to. Vajrayana Buddhism is very much alive and kicking, and has nothing to do with fantasies such as Alice in Wonderland

Well, that's your belief. But I don't see why your experiences are proof of anything. People experience all kinds of things, and believe (well, they say they "know") that Jesus Saves, that aliens are communicating with us, that Allah is lord of us all, etc...

What separates your beliefs from these beliefs?

Do i really have to keep repeating myself? Ive already explained that one can believe that anything is happening under the influence of psychedelics, whether it be interpreted as beneficial, or utterly harmful. The reality of the situation however may be much different from a persons beliefs.

Okay, you believe that people can believe false things... why do you think that you are above this? What about the nature of your beliefs makes them more credible than any other beliefs?

Its got nothing to do with Dogma if you have had direct experience with the said path. My faith in my teachers is purely derived from actual realization. Not conditioning of the mind to believe certain things. Ive already talked about the difference between experiences and realization. Impermanent experiences you can derive beliefs and blind faith from, realization cuts through all dogmatic assumptions in other words, you KNOW what your talking about beyond just simple belief because your beliefs and expereinces have been confirmed and surpassed by direct perception.

Have you ever met a single person who said that they believed something whole heartedly, but didn't think they really knew it? Every single brand of faith is filled with people who claim that they KNOW because of DIRECT EXPERIENCE.

What makes your direct experience better than their direct experience?

You obviously seem to believe that your word means more than anyone else's word on their faiths. That your experiences are somehow more tangible, more realistic, more *something* than other people's experiences with their faiths.

Why?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Meditating on cubes........ [Re: Asante]
    #4356444 - 06/30/05 05:36 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Wiccan_Seeker, Your post gives me goosebumps. So much fun to read. I agree.

And I have been to the planet with three moons. I was crossing over a mighty bridge into the city the largest moon seemed like you could touch it, it covered so much sky and was just rising for the night. Blood red it was. The night was bathed in it, and the city below. In the city was the largest building I have ever been to. A university of sorts. The whole city was devoted to learning. It was so beatiful. I had a very strange time there.

Have you been there? My visit was in a dream. I had it long ago but remember it like I had it last night. :heart: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Meditating on cubes........ [Re: niteowl]
    #4356447 - 06/30/05 05:37 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

You are correct in stating that there is more than one path to the center. I hate to disagree with Sinbad because he seems so passionate about the subject...and I admire that. It is also clear that disillusion still waits for him.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Meditating on cubes........ [Re: Icelander]
    #4356661 - 06/30/05 06:48 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


And I have been to the planet with three moons. I was crossing over a mighty bridge into the city the largest moon seemed like you could touch it, it covered so much sky and was just rising for the night. Blood red it was. The night was bathed in it, and the city below. In the city was the largest building I have ever been to. A university of sorts. The whole city was devoted to learning. It was so beatiful. I had a very strange time there.
.
Have you been there? My visit was in a dream. I had it long ago but remember it like I had it last night.




Since I believe that everything which is possible shall exist and nonexist into infinity I believe this place is real. I however have no recollection of the place. Alas, it sounds magical.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Meditating on cubes........ [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4356963 - 06/30/05 08:19 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

"I hate to disagree with Sinbad because he seems so passionate about the subject...and I admire that."
_____________________________________________________________________

Well if you admire that, there is a whole bunch of fundamentalist Christians out there you would just love.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Meditating on cubes........ [Re: Icelander]
    #4357176 - 06/30/05 09:21 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

"Well if you admire that, there is a whole bunch of fundamentalist Christians out there you would just love."

Yes, I admire conviction. Even in fundamentalist Christians. I do not have to agree with it to admire it. I realize it is only a function of naivety. I do not admire elitism. Note the part about disillusion as well. Once you taste serious disillusion for the first time it opens your eyes a bit, and changes your perspective. Having strong convictions which you are willing to stand up for is a positive thing, though. With time and moderation this turns into integrity.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Offlinea_h_w
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Re: Meditating on cubes........ [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4358515 - 07/01/05 04:40 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Buddhism and Psychedelics...


'I am not so foolish as to equate what happens under the influence of mescaline . . . with the realization of the end and ultimate purpose of human life: Enlightenment." he reassured his reader. "All I am suggesting is that the mescaline experience is what Catholic theologians call a gratuitous grace.' not necessary to salvation but potentially helpful and to be accepted thankfully, if made available." When Maria. Huxley's wife of more than thirty years, lay dying of cancer he read to her the reminders from The Tibetan Book of the Dead, reducing them to their simplest form and repeating them close to her ear: 'Let go, let go. Go forward into the light. Let yourself be carried into the light." He continued after she had stopped breathing, "tears streaming down his face, with his quiet voice not brealring," his son Matthew remembered.


Aldous Huxley called Leary from Los Angeles, where Huxley was now dying of cancer. When Leary flew our to see him. Huxley asked him to guide him through the bardos. Leary suggested that it would be better if Huxley's second wife, Laura, guided the sessions. "No, I dont want to put any more emotional pressure on her.' Huxley replied. I plan to die during the trip, after all.' In the end. Laura did give him the sacrament (LSD) and read him the instructions from the Tibetan Book oK the Dead. And so Aldous Huxley passed peacefully into the Clear Light of Reality.



In 1966. Ralph Metzner introduced Timothy Leary to the Geman born Lama Anagarika Govinda, who lived in Evans-Wentz's old cottage in the Himalayan village of Nanital. "The lama had been most impressed to learn that The Psychedelic Experience contained a dedication to him." Learv wrote in Flashbacks. Govinda had requested an LSD session which Metzner provided. For the first time, after thirty years of meditation, the lama had experienced the Bardo Thodal in its living sweating reality. According to Leary, Govinda told him that "many of the guardians of the old philosophic traditions had realized that the evolution of the human race had depended upon restoration of unity between the outer science advanced by the West and the inner yoga advanced by the East." The teachings of Theosophy, gurdjeff, Ramakrishana, Krishnamurti, and Evans-Wentz's translation of the Tibetan Book of the Dead had all been part of this plan. "You," the lama told Leary, "are the predictable result of a strategy that has been unfolding for over fifty years. You have done exactly what the philosophers wanted done." Presumably referring to Gerald Heard and Huxley, he said, "You were prepared discreetly by several Englishmen who were themselves agents of this process. You have been an unwitting tool of the great transformation of our age.



Leary's partner, Richard Alpert (now known as Ram Dass), reached India in 1967, "hoping to find someone who might understand more about these substances than we did in the West." When he met his guru, Neem Karoli Baba, Ram Dass gave him a hefty dose of nine hundred micrograms. "My reaction was one of shock mixed with the fascination of a social scientist, eager to see what would happen," Ram Dass wrote.

"He allowed me to stay for an hour, and nothing happened. Nothing whatsoever He just laughed at me."

Another time the old man swallowed a mind boggling twelve hundred micrograms. "And then he asked, 'Have you got anything stronger?' I didn't. Then he said, 'These medicines were used in Kulu Valley long ago. But yogis have lost that knowledge. They were used with fasting. Nobody knows how to take them now To take them with no effect, your mind must be firmly fixed on God. Others would be afraid to take. Many saints would not take this 'And he left it at that " (From Miracle of Love, Stories about Neem Keroli Baba, by Ram Dass.)



Hajicek-Dobberstein argues that the Vedic soma cult, or something very similar to it, survived among the tantric Buddhist siddhas who lived in India from the eighth to the tenth century G.E.. and whose biographies are recounted in a twelfth-century Tibetan text, The Legends of the Eighty-four Mahasiddhas.

The most compelling evidence is found in the story of the siddha Kamaripa. His guru. Nagarjuna instructed him to demonstrate his austerity by collecting only as much food for alms as he could balance on the head of a needle. Kamaripa retumed with a large pancake balanced on the tip of a needle, a symbol, suggests Hajicek-Dobberstein, of the amanita musearia. More symbols are suggested. but the most convincing evidence is an exchange in which Nagaijuna says. "We need to eat the alchemical medicine." Kamaripa does so, and then spreads his spittle on a dead tree, which bursts in blossom, and then urinates in a pot. This behavior is taken as a sign of realization by Kamaripa's teacher For Hajicek-Dobberstein, it is a "marker" of the presence of amanita soma because drinking the urine of a shaman who has consumed amanita intensifies the potency of the mushroom and is a well-known practice among Siberians.

The possible use of amanita (or other mushrooms or plants) by siddhas also offers a possible solution to two thomy Tibetan etymological puzzles. The Tibetan name for cannabis, So.Ma.Ra.Dza. from the Sansknt soma-raja, or "king of soma" can now be read as a linguistic trace of a long forgotten tradition. The second puzzle involves the Tibetan translation of amrita (deathless) as bDud.rTsi. The word rTsi is "drink, juice," but bDud means "demon." How did the deathless drink of amrita become "demon juice" in Tibetan? In an unpublished paper, another amateur ethnobotanist, one K. Tendzin Dorje, retells the story of Vajrapani, who recovers the amrita that had been stolen by the demon Rahu. "Demon juice" may therefore refer to the amrita stolen by the demon Rahu. (I am indebted to Dr. Richard Kohn for this suggestion.)



One thing at least seems certain. Wharever the ancient or recent past history of psychedelic entheogens and Buddhism may be, the story is hardly over As Hajicek-Dobberstein says, "Some contemporary non orthodox Buddhist 'alchemists' find precedents in Mahasiddhas Nagaijuna and Aryadeva, who agreed, We need to eat the alchemical medicine. . . Orthodox scholars may object but they can no longer 'Just say No."



all these excerpts were taken from the following link, where you can read the whole text:
http://www.beezone.com/RickFields/high_history_of_buddhism.html

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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Meditating on cubes........ [Re: a_h_w]
    #4358546 - 07/01/05 05:18 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Very interesting a_h_w ...

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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Offlinemikeytwice
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Re: Meditating on cubes........ [Re: MAIA]
    #4358759 - 07/01/05 08:10 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

a_h_w, I'm glad you mentioned Hajicek-Dobberstein. He is sourced in the Mike Crowley link I posted above and is one of the scholars that seems to come up often regarding this topic.

Phluck, two quick things:

1) Sinbad is accurate in relating the beliefs in Hinduism and Buddhism about the Kali Yuga. Whether the Kali Yuga actually exists is beyond the point an another story entirely. Perhaps it exists in some way and doesn't exist in another. There is an apocolyptic impulse in man and you see the need for salvation in every religion. Even in Taoism there is a sect that sees (or saw - I don't know if they exist anymore) the corruption in the world and believes that Lao Tzu will come back as a Redeemer.

Though people are often quick to disregard such tendencies as superstitious &c., I believe they have some importance. Whether these beliefs are indicative of some psychological impulse or perhaps even intuition about the future, I can't say, but clearly *something* is there.

2) "Someone who meditated formed some viewpoints on the correct way to do so, and the techniques needed for achieving what he believed to be a state of enlightenment. I'm arguing that achieving such a state may not have any real significance..."

I think that may be downplaying the experience that individuals get out of meditation. Meditative practice can indeed be self-indulgent and can lead to nowhere, but often times that isn't the case. Even if the benefits are solely physiological, they are wortwhile enough. But I wonder - have you ever tried practicing meditation? It can lead to interesting experiences that are just as direct as day-to-day sense data. I still have no idea what any of it means, but that's ok.

The thing I like about Buddhism at its fundaments is that it is a powerful psychological tool for living and acting in this world. The Four Noble Truths have serious implications, and understanding of them can help you not create trouble for yourself and other people. Of course, as with any institution, Buddhism has taken on some crazy flourishes at points, possibly to its detriment.

One of the thing that amazes me most about some Tibetan Buddhist monks are that they can exhibit clearly measurable skills that are outside the realm of ordinary human capability. In a class on Buddhism I took, we watched a video where two monks were in a cold, snowy forest, and wet blankets were thrown over them. They were able to raise their body temperature to the point where they could evaporate all the water from the blanket (unfortunately, I froget the timeframe). Also, there have been plenty of controlled experiments that have demonstrated that certain monks are able to focus on one object - single-pointed meditation - for extreme lenghts of time... where most people were able to focus for around 2.6 seconds, most monks were able to focus for 4.1 second, and one was able to focus for 723 seconds(!). If you want more info on that article, here is the citation:
Meditation alters perceptual rivalry in Tibetan Buddhist monks.
Carter OL, Presti DE, Callistemon C, Ungerer Y, Liu GB, Pettigrew JD.
Curr Biol. 2005 Jun 7;15(11):R412-3.


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Meditating on cubes........ *DELETED* [Re: a_h_w]
    #4358812 - 07/01/05 08:48 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by dorkus

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Meditating on cubes........ [Re: dorkus]
    #4358911 - 07/01/05 09:29 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe because they are so invested in their belief system that they have to convince others to make it real for themselves. Everyone I know who has a "guru" is constantly relating miracle stories that they read in the book as true. An come to believe it as if they actually witnessed it. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Meditating on cubes........ [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4358959 - 07/01/05 09:44 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
"Well if you admire that, there is a whole bunch of fundamentalist Christians out there you would just love."

Yes, I admire conviction. Even in fundamentalist Christians. I do not have to agree with it to admire it. I realize it is only a function of naivety. I do not admire elitism. Note the part about disillusion as well. Once you taste serious disillusion for the first time it opens your eyes a bit, and changes your perspective. Having strong convictions which you are willing to stand up for is a positive thing, though. With time and moderation this turns into integrity.




I hear where you are comming from Hue. I myself do not admire conviction of this sort. Hitler had strong conviction. It was used in the service of evil and so IMO was unskilled. In the case of Sinbad his conviction leads him to seperate himself from others, and IMO is also unskilled. Strong conviction is not always worth much if the conviction is not based in love and compassion. This strong conviction does not always moderate in time and turn into integrity. It can just as easily go the other way. :mushroom2:

I do agree that being able to stand up for yourself is a worthwhile trait, if combined with some truth.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Meditating on cubes........ [Re: mikeytwice]
    #4358967 - 07/01/05 09:47 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Sinbad is accurate in relating the beliefs in Hinduism and Buddhism about the Kali Yuga.

I thought I made it clear that the details of the beliefs are of no consequence to me. See my Alice in Wonderland analogy earlier.

The fact that monks who have devoted their lives to meditation are really good at it doesn't suprise me. It also doesn't prove that the state of enlightenment achieved by meditation has any significance outside of being a highly altered state of mind.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Meditating on cubes........ [Re: Phluck]
    #4359020 - 07/01/05 10:07 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Phluck you make a good point. I have met many long time meditators and I would have to say it hasn't improved there spiritual lives as much as you might believe by hearing them talk about it.

It can have some awesome physical effects though. Still I know a Si baba meditator of some 25 years and he is the biggest hypochondriac I know.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinemikeytwice
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Re: Meditating on cubes........ [Re: Phluck]
    #4359024 - 07/01/05 10:09 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Well, I'd imagine if you work towards freeing yourself of worry and attachment it would positively affect the way you interact with people in the world... I mean, it can be part of a program of introspection and self-criticism. It's been shown that meditation reduces stress levels. At a psychedelic level, being able to keep your cool and stay focused can help you through the slew of images that can come forth during a trip.

As to the worth of enlightenment, well, hard to say. There are several levels of enlightenment, and the Buddha as well as a few others are believed to have acheived the top. I haven't met any such people but I'd imagine that their presence is strong enough to have a positively calming and peacful effect upon people. I've seen this happen to a lesser degree and in various ways - some people's nervousness rubs off, people's happiness, etc. If somene is ecstatic and jubilant all the time, what more do you need?

A professor of mine once said, "What's so great about enlightenment, anyway?" Maybe its a selfish pursuit sometimes, or maybe it's better for us to deal with shit and denail and internal conflict and all that. I don't know. In any case, proving something's worth in a matter like this is impossible. It's almost like trying to prove that a given song is good. Not everything falls under the realm of science.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Meditating on cubes........ [Re: dorkus]
    #4359110 - 07/01/05 10:38 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

dr_mandelbrot said:
Ram Dass later admitted that the story of Neem Baba eating acid was a hoax. He made it up. Why?




To me it seems obvious why he would make it up, given the popularity and cult status of Leary's adaptation of the Tibetn Book of the Dead, which he colaborated in producing. A little thing called money $$$ springs to mind.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Meditating on cubes........ [Re: Icelander]
    #4359118 - 07/01/05 10:42 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Maybe because they are so invested in their belief system that they have to convince others to make it real for themselves. Everyone I know who has a "guru" is constantly relating miracle stories that they read in the book as true. An come to believe it as if they actually witnessed it. :mushroom2:




Have i related any such miracle stories? Also Icelander, why did you not answer my questions about your "buddhist" friend earlier on in this thread?


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Meditating on cubes........ [Re: niteowl]
    #4359223 - 07/01/05 11:12 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

So many people took out of Buddhism ('Siddhartha's Teachings'!) that what they need or want. I think, that's why there are so many gurus around and so many Buddha-styles.
Why go through the maze of interpretation of an interpretation ?
I recommend everybody to stay with the original teachings of Buddha and if you have not totally lost contact to yourself, you fast will see the benefits and paths for yourself and can choose the way which is inherent in yourself !
I have met some 'strange' gurus, where strange is the most harmless word which falls into my mind right now, and I made good experiences by just staying with the main principles of meditation and then following my own path...
You see for yourself how the prime-directives for meditation on cubes differs...
There surely are variations on meditations on drugs, even in a kind of Buddhist's way, but the prime principles of Siddhartha's teachings 'vipassana' and 'samatha', where one means 'calming of mind' (how this on cubes ???) and the other 'clearness of vision' (never experienced on cubes :wink:) just leaves the original classification of meditation far away....
That does not mean (of course), you can't use cubes for a spiritual way, or for getting different insights and so, but for me, it has not so much to do with meditation per se.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Meditating on cubes........ [Re: Sinbad]
    #4359298 - 07/01/05 11:37 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Maybe because they are so invested in their belief system that they have to convince others to make it real for themselves. Everyone I know who has a "guru" is constantly relating miracle stories that they read in the book as true. An come to believe it as if they actually witnessed it. :mushroom2:




Have i related any such miracle stories? Also Icelander, why did you not answer my questions about your "buddhist" friend earlier on in this thread?




I was speaking of people I know. This post has nothing to do with you. Also I told you I had no more to say to you on that subject.  Please read my posts more carefully. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Meditating on cubes........ [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4359345 - 07/01/05 11:52 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
So many people took out of Buddhism ('Siddhartha's Teachings'!) that what they need or want. I think, that's why there are so many gurus around and so many Buddha-styles.
Why go through the maze of interpretation of an interpretation ?





Thats what i was trying to get Sinbad to see. There are MANY paths to take to get to the same place. Telling someone that the are "doing it wrong" is, in itself, wrong.

Just because Sinbad found a path that someone else took doesn't mean that the path that Icelander or I took was in any way wrong.


Quote:

but the prime principles of Siddhartha's teachings 'vipassana' and 'samatha', where one means 'calming of mind' (how this on cubes ???) and the other 'clearness of vision' (never experienced on cubes ) just leaves the original classification of meditation far away....




I have found that meditating on low doses of shrooms (1-2grams) is similar to marijuana in its ability to allow me to focus better.

I havent tried meditating on a high dose (4-6gram) of shrooms.....yet  :wink:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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