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InvisibleSuffer
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Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit)
    #4247642 - 06/02/05 11:15 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Wow its been a long time (>8 years on IRC) and I hate it to come to this... But I don't have any other options.

As there has already been speculation, confusion, and accusations on ALL SIDES surrounding my departure, lets clear a few things up. What spawned most of this was a conversation with Vampire999

(03:59:10) Vampy: I have taken a new outlook
(03:59:13) Vampy: if the minority if offended
(03:59:17) Vampy: the minority can get the fuck over it
(03:59:41) Vampy: im not going to force policy on everyone when there are 5 out of 150 people that are offended by something

that's not the WHOLE conversation, but that definitely pissed me off, even more-so when It no longer became a question of what was wrong but who to blame.

(04:06:37) Vampy: we cant change policy every 5 minutes
(04:06:44) Suffer: no we cant
(04:06:47) Suffer: but thats what were doing
(04:07:03) Vampy: no what we are doing is recovering from what you and link decided everyone needed

I received an email the following morning telling me, and i quote:

"....the two [ifallapart and i] of you seem to be pushing your 100% no tolerance views on other people recently"
"Lately one or the other of you have been banning every time you see a racist word."

Hm... This upset me because as almost anyone in IRC can tell you, Ive been taking it WAY easy recently. He also says

"I agree fully with her recent ban of that dood [Capt].. he was obviously just out to get banned. But there are other cases."

Yet when asked for other examples in the IRC forum by ifallapart, none besides that could be given.

"Suffer you cant force everyone on IRC to feel the way you do about your morals and expect them to uphold them. You shouldn't do that know what its like to be druggies and have people shove it down our throats."

Do I really behave like this here? Is racism such a part of chat that me having a problem with its excessive use is considered me forcing my opinion on someone? If this has been the case, why was I still an oper? Why had you not mentioned that earlier? Maybe this is just my ethics talking here, but if this place is to be run as a business, racial prejudice has no place in official channels of communication. I'm fairly certain any mod of any forum (besides maybe OTD) would have 1000% LESS patience for what any of us have put up with and ignored in IRC, AND FOR A GOOD REASON! It doesn't belong in certain aspects of our community, You of all people should understand that. My best guess is that you just don't hold any value to #shroomery.

On my way off of the network BEFORE I had received your emails. I did something childish. I changed the topic in #shroomery to "Go ahead and be racist, Vamp doesnt care"

Well, everything you've told me, you don't.

"When it comes to shroomery stuff I am an Admin first. It is the only way that you can exist being an admin that's just how it is."

Yep. So act like one. Ive removed myself from that situation, so how bout you take some responsibility for making 2 of your friends feel like shit by making fact-less claims of our irresponsibility and mock friendship.

Now before vamp jumps all over me for either posting parts of his emails or for not posting the entire thing, I will be dead honest. The content of your email wasn't as rude as my responses... But at that point it was all to clear to me that I no longer love this place, thanks for helping me to realize vamp. I have donated my time here in the past because it was something important to me. As it is being run right now, I cant say I want anything to do with it anymore.

Sorry kids. I really thought I was helping, but everything Ive been told the past 2 days says otherwise, that my efforts are counter productive, that people I thought I knew never told me if i was doing something wrong, that people here want racial intolerance in chat and that even tho I haven't done much about it... that's still too much.

Ifallapart has sent numerous emails and has posted about this in the IRC forum (private for those of you who don't know what im talking about) and I sent 2 nasty emails to Vamp. I dont expect to hear back from mine, but I would still like to know exactly what i did wrong and exactly what my girlfriend did to be treated like this. From the way things are going I don't expect a reply to either of us anytime soon...

FUCK THAT. I know better then to waste my time if its unappreciated.
Goodbye shroomery. I may post every now and then, but don't hold your breath.


--------------------

Edited by Suffer (06/02/05 01:03 PM)

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OfflineOrganic
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Registered: 04/14/02
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Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Suffer]
    #4247689 - 06/02/05 11:29 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry to see you go.

IRC cliques=stupid shit

That is all.


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 61,026
Loc: the sky
Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Suffer]
    #4247719 - 06/02/05 11:37 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

All this aside, I still think you should come to the NE2K5 gathering, and that's my two cents.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis

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Invisiblenewuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Suffer]
    #4247725 - 06/02/05 11:39 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

[image][/image]

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OfflineVampire999S
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Suffer]
    #4248002 - 06/02/05 12:45 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Besides the issues I pointed out in your email you have been an excellent oper and contributed much this site over the years.

I wish you the best of luck.


--------------------
./configure --without-sanity --without-logic --without-regret
01100110011101010110001101101011011110010110111101110101
jaded = safe != happy
Were not familly, we are the shroomery, and to some thats thicker than blood.

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InvisibleIrishdrunk
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Suffer]
    #4248043 - 06/02/05 12:56 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Take care Suffer! :beer:


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:awesome:

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Suffer]
    #4248122 - 06/02/05 01:17 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I'm sorry to see you go, Suffer. You are a great guy and I hope you come back sometime. :frown:

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Suffer]
    #4248878 - 06/02/05 03:46 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry to see you go.

You of all people know it takes a while to fix racism ANYWHERE.

Anyway, I hope when things cool off, you will return.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Rose]
    #4248913 - 06/02/05 03:52 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

If it's not harming anyone else, people should be able to discuss racism without being kicked or banned. Obviously the bias of the mod who would limit simply the discussion of a taboo subject isn't helpful to the sharing of opinions and information.

If racism is ever solved, it will be solved by debate and knowledge, not by oppression.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Ravus]
    #4248984 - 06/02/05 04:03 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I agree, mostly.

At a certain point though, you just gotta' ask people to stop.


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Fiddlesticks.


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Suffer]
    #4249063 - 06/02/05 04:25 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

editing speech is what fascist/communist dicatatorships do. advocate free speech and dont censor opinions. let someone go ahead and hate black people, you can think/know its wrong tell somoene its wrong, but dont force any of your views on people. what shroomery should promote is freedom of opinions and freedom of exchanging points of view...of course there is a corrext and forum for everything. my basic view is stop being thought police and let people be free, and dont judge people... lemme put it this way, if some asshole wants to post scat in otd, they arent "Stupid" or an "idiot" for thinking its funny. they just have a different sense of humor than you.....bah im rambling but i think everoyne gets the point.

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Invisiblenewuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #4249073 - 06/02/05 04:27 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

:thumbup:

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OfflineDreamer987
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Suffer]
    #4249156 - 06/02/05 04:56 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

aw wtf? Don't be a Drama Queen.
Your going to give up your relationship with the Shroomery, and all the people you met here, over some little squable you had with Vamp?

You better not skip the gathering, or we'll lynch your cracker ass.


--------------------

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Invisibleivi
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Suffer]
    #4249312 - 06/02/05 05:36 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

weirdos


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Offlinefelix
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Suffer]
    #4250198 - 06/02/05 09:16 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

if some people were taking the racist thing out of hand, i'd ban people too. just cause i don't give a fuck. fuck racism. take it somewhere else.


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Real botanists laugh at HPS systems, we do however use high pressure sodium in the parking lot. - artthug

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InvisibleLiz
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #4250201 - 06/02/05 09:16 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

the reason that some people have/had an objection to overthe top racism in #shroomery is because its the main channel of the server.  All people who click on text chat get directed there, and for a new person to come in looking for info and see nigger this and nigger that, I don't think makes a very good first impression.  This isn't a matter of censoring people, its a matter of realizing that there's a time and place for shit like that, and the lobby channel probably isn't the best place.  There's #hate, #otd, and countless other channels that suffer, I, and everyone else could care less about what people say in.  :shrug:  I suppose it's a mute point now anyways, I just thought I'd clarify that.


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.



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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Liz]
    #4250240 - 06/02/05 09:23 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

i guess that makes sense to keep the niggering out of the main channel, kind of a pub like setting...i forgot there is a #otd for morons to nigger off all day. i guess i agree then, as long as there are channels to speak 100% freely in. then maybe no more niggering in #shroomery is a good idea. why are irc nerds busy sitting around calling people niggers anyway?? get a job you nerds!!! :wink:

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Invisiblenewuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #4250296 - 06/02/05 09:36 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

IRC is like the OTD of the internet.

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #4250355 - 06/02/05 09:47 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
i guess that makes sense to keep the niggering out of the main channel, kind of a pub like setting...i forgot there is a #otd for morons to nigger off all day. i guess i agree then, as long as there are channels to speak 100% freely in. then maybe no more niggering in #shroomery is a good idea. why are irc nerds busy sitting around calling people niggers anyway?? get a job you nerds!!! :wink:




--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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InvisibleLiz
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Rose]
    #4250397 - 06/02/05 09:54 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

my sentiments exactly.  and for the record, in recent months, I had 19 bans, suffer had something like 24 and adrug had 64.  So we were not exactly nazis of #shroomery.  not to say adrug was...she's a damn good op and a sweetheart...I'm just baffled that we can somehow be made out to be cracking the whip with those numbers :shrug:


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.



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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Liz]
    #4250412 - 06/02/05 09:59 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

This isn't a very big deal... just let it sooth over... and see how things are.

If you guys leave you will be missed.

If you don't... this will blow over.

You're painted into a corner right now... give it time. It is your only option, but there is no need for self-exile.


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Fiddlesticks.


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InvisibleLiz
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Rose]
    #4250430 - 06/02/05 10:02 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I wasn't planning on leaving...I just didn't want to be an op anymore.  I agree with you, in terms of letting it go.  I'm angry, so that's hard for me...but I'll do my best.  Thanks Cervantes :heart:


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.



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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Suffer]
    #4251241 - 06/03/05 02:27 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Wait a minute...you mean to tell me you stepped down and are considering missing the Ohio gathering over that???

To use a quote I was once famous around here for, chill the fuck out! I happen to agree with Vamp in this case, but it's not even important enough to care. Why would you get so worked up over such petty bullshit? If you don't want to be an admin then fine, but to step down over this shit is ridiculous.


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InvisibleThe_Green_Glow
i consume yasoul

Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 160
Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Suffer]
    #4251464 - 06/03/05 06:49 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

follow your heart, dont let the negativity eat at you.  Sometimes you just have to take action and show people what hatred causes(drives good people away).  Some dont even understand that this is hurting you to see go on, and think you are being dramatic, but you must stay true to yourself, Suffer, you know what you feel. :heart:

dont go to the gatherings if you feel it will cause you to be 'down' or feel shitty vibes.  If it doesnt make you happy, DONT DO IT! Gotta stay true to yourself, always. Or you will set yourself up to be unhappy and in unhappy situations that bring you grief.


--------------------
"are you goin to hell or heaven? did you walk with the sinners or pray with the reverend? tell the truth i did a little of both, but aint no tellin where im goin til my bodies a ghost." --Twiztid

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InvisibleCherryBomM
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Suffer]
    #4251799 - 06/03/05 10:11 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)




I love you guys, all of you... but I think this entire situation is getting blown entirely out of porportion.  It seems that it's really more of a personal problem then a policy issue.

One of the hardest parts about administraion and working closely with good friends is not letting things get personal.  There seems to be a lot of bruised egos...  :sad:

Suffer, I remember going into #shroomery in '98 and totally looking up to you guys.  You, Y-thang, BrAiN, even the Fett...  and to see you stepping down at this point over something as petty as a policy issue, well it sucks. 

And now you're thinking of not even coming to the gathering?    I understand that if tensions are going to be high, it probably is better that way, I can totally see that.  But I also think that you guys have the capacity to put your friendship ahead of administrative emotions.

Too much has gone on in the past 8 years to let it all come crashing down at this point.  Take a break if you need it, everyone needs a break from time to time, but don't give up on the rest of us.

Fallie, who am I going to cuddle with at the hotel if you don't come?  :blush:

This whole thing sucks.  :sad:


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InvisibleLiz
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: CherryBom]
    #4251864 - 06/03/05 10:33 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

That post made me cry. I don't want to speak for suffer, I know he plans on responding to this later...but his reasons for being upset, and for leaving aren't because of petty policy issues. I know that the reason I am so upset is because we were both accused of doing things wrong, and banning people needlessly. When I asked for examples, or proof of this, I got nothing. I must have asked 10 times, and all I got for an example to back this up was a log of a ban from a few days ago, that pretty much everyone in the IRC forum, including vamp himself, agreed with me was totally called for. I'm upset because if I did something wrong, that's fine. But don't chastise me for shit, and then not come up with a single thing to say "Look, here's where I'm coming from".

Aside from that, the thing that actually bothered me the most about his email, was where he wrote that as of late I hadn't messaged him at all, other than to bitch about stuff. I told him this made me feel like he was implying I was a shitty friend, and he hasn't denied that that is exactly how he meant it.

I value my friends, and I try to treat every one of them with respect and love...and I feel like absolute shit about this. I don't know what I did to make him feel this way about me, and he won't tell me, either. A huge part of the reason suffer and I were planning on moving to Arizona, was to be closer to vamp and the rest of the AZ crew. When we came home from Arizona after we visited, all I could talk about for weeks afterwards was how bad I wanted to go back, and how I couldn't wait to see Jacob again in June.

Up until 2 days ago, I considered him one of my best friends.

In my eyes, this isn't about policy, or bans, or #shroomery...this about about feeling betrayed and talked down to by someone both of us held in the HIGHEST of regards. I wrote vamp the nicest email back in response to his the other day, completely civil, and I got nothing. No IMs, No PMs, no emails back. Nothing. After I sent him this email, I IMed him, and he responded that he would get back to me when he got out of work. It's been 4 days now, and I still haven't been met with the dignity of a response. I don't want to work hand in hand with someone who makes accusations and then wont respond to my repeated request for clarification.

The other issue, the gathering. Both of us want to come. But in all seriousness, if I see Vamp right now, I'm not sure whether I'll start yelling, because I'm hurt, or just burst into tears like I did when I saw those pictures. And I don't want that in front of a bunch of people I'm meeting for the first time. I hope you guys understand.


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.



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OfflineSmallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster

Registered: 03/12/05
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Suffer]
    #4251909 - 06/03/05 10:46 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

This is so ridiculous that this is even happening in a community of shroomheads. Le derrrrrr


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


Trip Report

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OfflineVampire999S
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Liz]
    #4251993 - 06/03/05 11:31 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Ok this is just getting out of hand.

The horrible tyrant email and the talking down to suffer that ifallapart keeps hinting at is this email right here:

Quote:

On a personal oper staff note to you. That was totally uncalled for. The opers especially have to work as a team and a outburst of feelings like that again and friend or not.. oper for however many years or not you wont be an oper the next day. That totally destroys any chance of the room going back to normal operation minus the constant blatant racism that you don't want to see in there.

Vamp





Jesus christ I had my 5th grade teacher give me harsher warnings then that. It was obviously taken on a personal level that it was never intended on and shouldn't have been.

Tough job but someone has to do it especially when they KNOW that the person on the other end is going to response this way. I have had conversations with suffer before on this matter and he has stormed off. Other people have had conversations with suffer before on this matter and he has stormed off.

Now I an not racist.. nor am I over sensitive to it. The fact is the shroomery is not about forcing your opinions on anyone.

Everyone wants to have free speech and to stand up against people who try and stop that.. that is.. as long as it suits them. But do something to offend their personal morals and watch the fuck out. The fact is its that type of pseudo hippyness that makes this place(the world) so crappy.

Suffer is playing the poor victim here and its really just out of control at this point. They are both acting like we are promoting racism or want to fly a banner. When in fact in this entire situation the only person to do that was when suffer decided to set the topic.

"Go ahead and be racist... vamp doesn't care anymore.." Or something identical to that.

Now what kind of sense does that make coming from the person who is claiming to want to clean up racism? That was completely the opposite of everything that our 30-35 person team has been working against for the last however long when we decided that #shroomery was getting out of control in many aspects.

Suffer has been an oper long enough to know the type of long term back lash something like that can have on that volatile room. He has also been around long enough to know that the number of years you have been here has nothing to do with you being able to slip by with something like that. Certainly long enough to not expect that saying I was upset the next day would make everything ok.

I wouldn't expect to get away with something like that and I cant imagine any of the other staff members admin, opers, mods alike would expect to either. I don't think anyone on the shroomery staff would do something that that and end up getting away with it without a warning.

As bom said:
Quote:

But I also think that you guys have the capacity to put your friendship ahead of administrative emotions.




That is exactly what I had to do when I sent the email to either of them. Put aside personal feelings in order to do what needed to be done which was let them know about concerns brought to my attention from many of their fellow staff members. I have remained respectful and have not made any personal comments or stabs in this whole situation. I'm not saying that they have.. but the invisible line has been approached a handfull of times.

I know that it has to be clear to everyone that the reaction that both suffer and ifallapart are having is clearly of a personal nature and has no place being mixed in with acting as an oper or a mod. It really has no place in this this forum.. or strewn around for everyone else to have to watch or deal with. The decision to do so was on their part.

As far as ohio goes im going to hang out and have a good time with the people I spend 75% of time hanging out and having a good time with online. This issue has nothing to do with anyone else and no one should have to suffer from any bad vibes over it.


--------------------
./configure --without-sanity --without-logic --without-regret
01100110011101010110001101101011011110010110111101110101
jaded = safe != happy
Were not familly, we are the shroomery, and to some thats thicker than blood.

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InvisibleLiz
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Vampire999]
    #4252045 - 06/03/05 11:51 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I said nothing about the shroomery promoting racism, or you promoting racism, or even anything HINTING towards that  :confused:  All I said was that I think that my email to you warranted a response, and if someone you consider a friend asks for clarification on comments that you've made, you should give it to them.  As a friend, or an admin, or hell, even as just a decent human being, you would be able to see my point there.

Neither of us ever tried to justify him setting that topic.  It was a dumb thing to do.  He knows it, I know it...but I also don't think it warranted you emailing him threatening to take away his O-line.  That's just my opinion. 

I understand you putting your personal feeling aside to send that email to us, and like I've said before, your email was not rude or disrespectful in the least...but neither was mine, that you clearly just cant be bothered to address.  That's just fucked up.  Again, just my opinion.

Yes, you're absolutely right, both of us are taking this personally.  Wouldn't you?  If I sent you an email essentially telling you that you were a shitty friend to me, and you wrote back asking why, wouldn't you be upset?  Wouldn't you be a bit curious WHY I felt that way?  You're right Jacob, this has no fucking business all over the forums, but I tried talking to you in private, and got nothing back.  I cared enough to want to know why you feel that way.  Now I'm done holding my breath.  As far as I'm concerned, if you don't hold me in high enough regard to write a simple email explaining your reasoning to me, or IM me to try to sort stuff out, then I'm done wasting my time.  I cared enough about you to make a post saying how upset I was, and how I was hurt, and you respond with a stale, generic, emotionless email about politics and the shroomery.  Whatever.


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.



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OfflineVampire999S
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Liz]
    #4252087 - 06/03/05 12:11 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

And I stand by my deduction that it is still obviously way to sensitive of an issue for anything to get worked out on a staff level or a personal level without there being more hurt feelings or drama.

I explained this multiple times the FIRST TIME we went through all of this in the IRC forum.

I'm sorry if in your eyes I'm being a jackass by not wanting to do what I feel with make the situation worse. But like I cant make you feel a particular it works both ways.

I also don't doubt that out of the now 33K person audience we many would disagree that this is STILL obviously way to volatile a situation to get any isntant resolution.

After I feel like things have calmed down I'll write you a response and at that point it will be your choice whether you want to take it any further then that. But either way I'll respect your choice either way it goes.

Now hopefully this topic can go back to people paying their respects and expressing their thanks to suffer for what he did for this place before deciding to leave.

I don't think anyone should be giving shit to suffer for leaving for what he felt was right or wrong and I haven't seen many do that. Everyone has the right to take a break.. or step down anytime they feel like it. None of the staff members.. especially the seasoned ones owe this place a thing.


--------------------
./configure --without-sanity --without-logic --without-regret
01100110011101010110001101101011011110010110111101110101
jaded = safe != happy
Were not familly, we are the shroomery, and to some thats thicker than blood.

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InvisibleSuffer
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Vampire999]
    #4252112 - 06/03/05 12:20 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I dont think you have been around chat enough recently to honestly make acusations at me. I think anyone would be upset by it, expecially when they can't get a strait answer.

I still havent seen anything to back up your unfounded claims... and Im more insulted personaly that you still can't respond. All I would like is for you to back up what you claim or appoligize... altho I doubt you will give me (or anyone else) that pleasure.


--------------------

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OfflineVampire999S
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Suffer]
    #4252226 - 06/03/05 01:00 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I already admitted fault of using the term "recently" loosely. I also already admitted fault to taking me sweet time addressing concerns of other staff members.. Which I don't think anyone can blame me for considering I expected some reaction like this.. although not on this exact scale.

One of my biggest responsibilities is analyzing trends on the shroomery especially on IRC and I think I do a damn good job. The conversation you started with me was without a doubt going to turn into another one of the racism conversations where you got pissed off and stormed off.. which is exactly what did happen.

I pay attention to how the staff members act and I saw another rash of it coming. I saw it and I headed it off and that was my call to make. I still do not believe I made the wrong one.

There have been plenty of bans made by you in the past over racism that the majority of the staff did not agree with. Myself included as I made clear to you and link on several occasions that I was not in favor of a zero tolerance policy.

So in order to explain why I talked to you when I did about what I did people would have to know the years of opering experience I have had with you and your past reactions and the signs that it was coming again. I'm not about to start pulling shit out of the past.

I also don't believe people will judge me for knowing or believing that it was coming and carefully formatting that tactful email that no one in my shoes would have wanted to do. If they were to judge my by that they would do so not having the slightest idea and that's fine with me.

I also don't think you are going to sit here and argue with me about you being over sensitive to it in the past. I have pointed it out to you as well as countless other members. In oder to get "proof" of that im going to have to dig through logs I may not even have anymore. But you know very well its happened and I would sure as hell hope you dont deny it. Becuase at that point you wont get another response out of me. That any anyone whos actually evern been invovled with this will know what a crock of shit that would be.

I supposed you can call it talking out of my ass. Or you can call it knowing the waves and patterns of how this place works and I would say pretty damn well accurately gauging what your reaction would be.

You messaged me to talk about the racism policies in shroomery. You cannot POSSIBLY deny this.

Quote:


(20:59:42) Suffer: hey sexy
(21:08:45) Vampire9696: yo
(21:09:28) Vampire9696: I overflowed my fuckin fish tank
(21:09:32) Vampire9696: cause I got on there and started talking
(21:09:35) Vampire9696: water everywhere
(21:09:51) Suffer: heh
(21:09:54) Suffer: thats not good
(21:09:59) Vampire9696: eh
(21:10:03) Vampire9696: it will dry
(21:10:06) Vampire9696: my pride on the other hand
(21:10:09) Vampire9696: ruined for life
(21:10:12) Suffer: hey, didn't we have a poll way back when in the irc forum about excessive racism?





Then when I expressed that I didn't think we needed to be babying the minority and changing policies every few minutes. You let me know we were already doing so by allowing it. So I think its pretty obvious where the conversation was headed and it ended like every other one we have had about it in the past. Expect this time you pushed it further with your topic because you were pissed.

At that point it was obvious I needed to write you and email about calming down and how it was not our place to push what we felt was right on other people. Which was written in an email instead of handled on a real time level because you choose to get annoyed and leave and set that topic.

You choose to NOT deal with it then... the option you and your gf have made it clear as hell your pissed at me for exercising.

Again I already admitted fault to using the word "recently".


--------------------
./configure --without-sanity --without-logic --without-regret
01100110011101010110001101101011011110010110111101110101
jaded = safe != happy
Were not familly, we are the shroomery, and to some thats thicker than blood.

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OfflineboO
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Suffer]
    #4252350 - 06/03/05 01:48 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

really sad to see real life friendships go to waste because of some stupid IRC drama.

hopefully as time progresses, people will reflect back on how stupid this is and things will go back to normal.

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Vampire999]
    #4252368 - 06/03/05 01:52 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

dammit <3 you guys

look just chill

this seems like not the type of deal one should damage a friendship over. NO SHIT. vamp has a good head on his shoulders from all i have seen. mixing friendship and bizness can be messy, but please lean to the side of friendship. im speaking from experience and the empty spot in my heart over a friend that is no more.


what bom said, she is just beter at it than me

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InvisibleLinkA
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Liz]
    #4252388 - 06/03/05 02:00 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ifallapart said:
A huge part of the reason suffer and I were planning on moving to Arizona, was to be closer to vamp and the rest of the AZ crew. When we came home from Arizona after we visited, all I could talk about for weeks afterwards was how bad I wanted to go back, and how I couldn't wait to see Jacob again in June.

Up until 2 days ago, I considered him one of my best friends.





Remember why you thought that way about Vamp, and why you considered him a friend.

Now compare that to how you're viewing Vamp and that friendship in regard to this incident.

Now factor in the fact that no one else understands why you're mad.

Now put away your anger and sit back and think about all of it.

About Vamp.

About the situation.

Also about the fact that it's fuckin IRC.

-Link


--------------------
Wonder had gone away, and he had forgotten that all life is only a set of pictures in the brain, among which there is no difference betwixt those born of real things and those born of inward dreamings, and no cause to value the one above the other.  -- H.P. Lovecraft "The Silver Key"

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InvisibleLinkA
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Link]
    #4252393 - 06/03/05 02:02 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Also, you've met Vamp. You know he's a good guy, with a good heart, and unless you're a turtle, he means no harm. Don't forget that.

-Link


--------------------
Wonder had gone away, and he had forgotten that all life is only a set of pictures in the brain, among which there is no difference betwixt those born of real things and those born of inward dreamings, and no cause to value the one above the other.  -- H.P. Lovecraft "The Silver Key"

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Vampire999]
    #4252405 - 06/03/05 02:05 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

hahhahah with the fuckin turtle


--------------------
./configure --without-sanity --without-logic --without-regret
01100110011101010110001101101011011110010110111101110101
jaded = safe != happy
Were not familly, we are the shroomery, and to some thats thicker than blood.

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Offlinedelta9
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Vampire999]
    #4252569 - 06/03/05 02:43 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

<3


--------------------
delta9

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InvisibleLiz
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Link]
    #4252602 - 06/03/05 02:54 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not even really sure this post is going to make sense to anyone but me, but hell, I'll try anyways. You're right Link, it is IRC, it's fucking dumb, and this whole thing shouldn't have been blown up like this in the first place. The fact of the matter is, that yes, I'm bothered by accusations about banning people excessively for saying nigger. I don't know if suffer did that a while ago, and quite frankly I don't really care. He grouped up as one, and generalized that we BOTH acted that way, and I think that is false.

I will be the first person to admit that I am over sensitive. I read too much into shit, I overanalyze til I'm blue in the face, and I take shit that I probably should not take personally, very personally more often than not.

That being said, the IRC shit does not concern me, when I compare it to how I feel about Jacob thinking I could care less about talking to him unless it's to bitch about something. The IRC shit pales in comparison. I completely understand and agree with Jacob's decision to not email suffer back, and to let that situation cool down, because he's got a temper, and he was mad.

However, I wasn't mad. Not in the least. The following is the exact email I sent him, when I got his at work in the morning.

Quote:

Hey Jacob,

I guess I'm more hurt and confused by this email than anything else. The first question that comes to mind after reading this is, other than Capt, who you agree should have been banned, who have I banned for racism lately? I can't think of a single person....and suffer hasn't been banning people either. I don't take a no tolerance view on it, and I know that neither does he. What's important is the context of how things are said, and given that, NEITHER of us have been out for blood. If I'm wrong, and you can show me specific instances where we have been too harsh, or gone over the top in banning people, please show me so that I can know what to do differently in the future. I agree with you that the minority of the people should not be the ones to decide the fate of people, thats why we post polls...and I don't think I've ever banned someone and had everyone disagree with me doing so. I'm all for people having fun in #shroomery, and I don't by any means want it to be a sterile environment...and I think that you're wrong when you say that we've been taking things too seriously. I'd really appreciate it if you could show us instances where we have banned people for just saying Nigger....I might kick people if they say it continuously, and warn them to please stop...but I never ban off the bat, just for seeing that word. Neither does suffer.

What hurts me more than anything is your apparent conclusion that I don't bother to message you other than to bitch about people. I messaged you last night to see how you were feeling, and happened to be talking to Doobs at the same time...so I mentioned to you what was going on. I did not attack Doobs, I did not attempt to push my views on him. If you'd like me to send you the context of our message, I can assure you I was nothing but nice to him, and only IMed him to clarify that what I posted in the IRC forum what not a PM with me and Capt, it was in the chat. I thought that he would want to know that. He was rude, and when I asked him why he was being rude to me when I IMed him being civil, he said "I'm an arrogant prick, that's why". So yes, I felt the need to tell you that. It hurts me more than you know that you think that these are the only times I care enough to message you. I worried about you all day yesterday, so did suffer. When you signed on line, we were both so relieved because if showed us that you had made it home ok. Hell, a big part of the reason we're so excited to move to Phoenix is because we'd get to spend more time with you and the rest of the AZ crew. So it sucks that you think that I only message you to bitch. I consider you one of my closest friends, and if you felt that way, i wish you had said something sooner, so that I could have taken steps to show you that I enjoy talking to you, in other context that "this person did this," or "this person's pissing me off".

I'm not sure who or what you're referring to when you say that more and more people message you about me not getting along with Aops or Sops. I've been perfectly nice to everyone, even doobs, and I haven't talked to eightball in I don't even know how long. I've been doing my best to be more relaxed in the forum, in the channel, and try to listen to other people's points of view. Like I've told everyone else, I'll tell you the same. If I'm doing something that people don't like, they need to tell me about it, and tell me what I've done, or there's absolutely nothing i can do to fix it. I don't care if I get shit, lately I haven't even been getting all worked up about it. We haven't even been ON IRC much lately...thats another thing that has me confused. The majority of the weekend, we were busy, and away from our computers. And before that, we've been making an effort to spend more time doing stuff with eachother, than sitting in front of our respective screens....so I don't know when we would have had a chance to go looking for people to ban.

I can't speak for suffer, but obviously I'm in the channel a lot when he is, and I haven't seen him ban a single person for being racist lately. He's eased up a whole lot, and so have I. So I'm not sure where your email is stemming from. Please, if you can, show us who we've banned for saying "nigger", or who we've banned needlessly in general. I value your opinion, and if you show me instances where you think I was over the top, I'll gladly re-evaluate how I handle certain situation...but without being able to see what you're referring to...I'm completely in the dark, and suffer is just as baffled as I am.

I don't know what you mean by asking us to take a break...you want us to stay out of the channel, you want us to resign our ops, or you want us to just stop kicknig and banning people for a while? I have no idea what you want us to do...

I know I can speak for suffer as well when I say that both of us love the shroomery. I haven't been here for very long, but he has, and I know that when he makes decisions, he's making them with the general good of the website in mind. I do the same. If someone could make either of us aware when we're doing something that upsets someone, or making a decision that people disagree with, it would go a long way towards avoiding stuff like this in the future. I wish it hadn't come to this, an email from you asking us to "take a break". I guess the bottom line is, show us what we've been doing wrong. I'm sure you have logs, and can pull up people I have banned, or he has banned. I'd really like to see where you're drawing this from. And if people have a problem with me, or how I've been actng, or how he's been acting, please tell them to talk to me or him one on one so that I canfigure out what I'm doing to upset them....hearing second hand from you that I piss people off does nothing to help me fix it, because I don't even know who that's coming from. It really bothers me that the 2 of us are being grouped as one person...I have different views from him in a lot of cases, asto how things should be handled, anbd you kind of make it sound like the 2 of of us sit at home and conspire to make everyone miserable through our joint efforts...and its not like that. *sigh*

Im not going to speak for suffer here, but if what's been going down lately is jeopardizing our friendship, I would rather walk away from the site totally than lose you as a friend. I don't know exactly what I've done wrong lately, but hopefully when you respond to this you can show me, so if its something I wasn't aware of, I can do things differently in the future.

Talk to you soon
*Liz




I was not pissed off when I wrote that. I was not pissed off when I IMed him to confirm he received it, and I was not pissed off when he told me he would respond later that night. I am now pissed off, because when it comes to issues of friendship, I feel they should be dealt with immediately, and talked out so that the lines of communication are open. AIf you avoided talking to me Jacob, because suffer was pissed, that's really dumb. We're 2 people, and we were both feeling differently after we got that email from you. He was mad, I was concerned and wanted to talk to you. It's putting it off that upset me, because like I said, I feel it was an important issue, especially the part about you thinking I didn't care to message you, other than to bitch. If you had IMed me that night, or emailed me, or even the next day...whenever...when you had your thoughts clear...I wouldn't be upset right now.

Link, if people don't see why a lack of response when it comes to matters of close friendship would bother me, that confuses me. When I have an issue with one of my friends, or family, I go to them immediately, call them, go see them, whatever. I would have much appreciated a conversation with Jacob to discuss why he felt the way he was feeling, and I feel like I got brushed aside because suffer was mad. And that's ridiculous in my opinion. This is the last post I'm going to make on the matter, since I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing about it at this point. Jacob, if you want to email me, or IM me, feel free to do so whenever you decide to. I'll gladly read it. But I truly wish you had done it sooner, before I got hurt by your silence.


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.



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InvisibleautomanM
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Vampire999]
    #4252611 - 06/03/05 02:57 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Vampire999 said:
hahhahah with the fuckin turtle




haha, yeah, whats with all the turtles recently?


--------------------
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr

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InvisibleLinkA
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Liz]
    #4252626 - 06/03/05 03:02 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ifallapart said:
Link, if people don't see why a lack of response when it comes to matters of close friendship would bother me, that confuses me.




That's the point, this never had anything to do with friendship. You guys took an op issue and took it personally. I know the 'you never message me except to bitch' comment upset you, but I really don't think it was meant to be as harsh as you think it was. That one comment was really not something to get this upset about. And it seems to all stem from that single comment. Your getting upset at lack of backing it up, his general lack of response, all comes from you thinking it was an attack on your friendship, which it really wasn't. If you could see that I think you'd understand why this is all so silly.

-Link


--------------------
Wonder had gone away, and he had forgotten that all life is only a set of pictures in the brain, among which there is no difference betwixt those born of real things and those born of inward dreamings, and no cause to value the one above the other.  -- H.P. Lovecraft "The Silver Key"

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InvisibleLiz
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Liz]
    #4252629 - 06/03/05 03:04 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ifallapart said:

Aside from that, the thing that actually bothered me the most about his email, was where he wrote that as of late I hadn't messaged him at all, other than to bitch about stuff. I told him this made me feel like he was implying I was a shitty friend, and he hasn't denied that that is exactly how he meant it.






--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.



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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Liz]
    #4252660 - 06/03/05 03:17 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ifallapart said:
Quote:

ifallapart said:

I told him this made me feel like he was implying I was a shitty friend, and he hasn't denied that that is exactly how he meant it.









That right there, is exactly the problem.

He made you FEEL like he was IMPLYING you were a shitty friend?

Sorry, Ifall, I disagree here on this issue.

He didn't imply this. Not from what we've been shown. You may have sensed that in his message... but as talented as Vamp is, he can not make someone FEEL like he was IMPLYING anything. He's just not THAT talented.

It is more likely, you FELT like he was IMPLYING something.

This happens all the time, and Ifall, you just admitted that is a part of your personality you are trying to work on.

Quote:


ifallapart said:

I will be the first person to admit that I am over sensitive. I read too much into shit, I overanalyze til I'm blue in the face, and I take shit that I probably should not take personally, very personally more often than not.





Vamp said what he said, you and Suffer chose to feel what you felt.

In hindsight, I'm 100% sure Vamp did not FEEL like IMPLYING you 'n Suffer should quit opping and Modding. I do not even think he was testing your limits.

Something has been taken out of context, and blown out of proportion.

Do you understand what I am trying to say here?

Blatant racists ARE dealt with on IRC... other than that, a racist comment here and there... that is allowed. Sadly, it is human nature to use off-color language in IRC, and if we went TOO far TOO fast w/ an anti racism stance... we'd have to ban most everybody over the course of 48 hours!

This shit takes time, and I think Vamp agrees with your stance (he dislikes racists too... yes Vamp is a racist-racist), he just disagrees on how to handle this issue... and he gets to make those choices... just like you get to choose how you feel, once the decision is made.

Please, don't convince yourself, that in all his spare time, Vamp has the ability to make you FEEL like he is IMPLYING anything.

After all this, I think you are IMPLYING something, and you FEEL like Vamp said something he never really intended to.

Ain't communication a bitch?


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Invisibleeric_the_redS
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Suffer]
    #4252664 - 06/03/05 03:18 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

i am replying to suffer's post, but this is a reply to all involved:

you are obviously friends, close friends. those bonds of friendship that you all share are very valuable.

the #shroomery irc channel is worthless by comparison.

take irc out of the picture. if this removes the problem, then take a break from irc. if there is still a problem with irc gone, then irc is not the root of the problem. pick up the phone and call your friend to discuss whatever issues you may have.

why is this thread is still open? arguing in the public forums serves no valuable purpose. it does tend to put those arguing on the spot, making them feel they have to save face, which is counterproductive.


--------------------
Anno cock? is that some kind of Greek liqueur? -Geo's All Knowing Sex Slave

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OfflineVampire999S
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: automan]
    #4252671 - 06/03/05 03:21 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

It was an email about shroomery issues not personal issues.

I've have tried to explain that every way I know possible.

I dont sugar coat shit.. If I though you were being a bad friend I would have said "You are being a bad friend because *insert reason here*.


--------------------
./configure --without-sanity --without-logic --without-regret
01100110011101010110001101101011011110010110111101110101
jaded = safe != happy
Were not familly, we are the shroomery, and to some thats thicker than blood.

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OfflineVampire999S
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: eric_the_red]
    #4252688 - 06/03/05 03:24 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Because the satanic llama told me if I closed it he would take my first born.


--------------------
./configure --without-sanity --without-logic --without-regret
01100110011101010110001101101011011110010110111101110101
jaded = safe != happy
Were not familly, we are the shroomery, and to some thats thicker than blood.

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Vampire999]
    #4252711 - 06/03/05 03:31 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

the llama just might take your first born either way...


















as well as your turtle.  :eek:


--------------------
Anno cock? is that some kind of Greek liqueur? -Geo's All Knowing Sex Slave

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OfflineVampire999S
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: eric_the_red]
    #4252722 - 06/03/05 03:34 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

thats just sick!

<automan> i dont even know you anymore......

Seriously he just dosent even know you anymore


--------------------
./configure --without-sanity --without-logic --without-regret
01100110011101010110001101101011011110010110111101110101
jaded = safe != happy
Were not familly, we are the shroomery, and to some thats thicker than blood.

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Vampire999]
    #4252878 - 06/03/05 04:21 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

You guys all need to just chill a bit.  Seriously.  This is like the most unchill discussion I've ever seen.

Suffer and friends, realize Vamp is a busy guy.  He has to do his admin stuff on the shroomery in addition to having a job and a life and friends, and stuff.  No doubt whatever motives suffer and friends are attributing to vamp are not there.  I would guess that whatever you guys think the problem is, is just something he wrote in a hurry while distracted with other stuff.  He probably didn't even think about it again until you guys got offended or whatever by it.  If you are mad at him for not responding to your crap, just pretend like he wrote you whatever you wanted to hear and get on with it.  I bet he is too busy to write the responses you want.  Even if he isn't, as his friend, would you rather have him dealing with some drama shit on the internet or going outside and enjoying the day?

To vamp and friends.  Why not just tell these people whatever they want to hear that would help them get over it?  You know when a friend gets drunk or insecure and you have to say something so they can get over their problem?  You say it, even if it is unreasonable, and you don't mean it, because you care more about your relationship with your insecure friend then about being right.  If your buddy starts wigging out over something, you help him get over it, even if you don't like doing it.  You are all on the same side here.

This is a case in point about how attachment leads to suffering (no pun intended, of course :laugh:).  So you guys meet this dude, have some fun times.  But, because you become attached to those times, you start thinking about getting back there.  You get an image of your head of this dude, and then get attached to this image, and when he does something that isn't how the image you have of him works, you get upset.  Remember this guy that did this thing is the same guy you have had those good times with.  The image that his actions shook up is what you wanted him to be, thats it.  What would you rather have, anyway?  If you are friends worth having, you'd rather have him be a dick sometimes then always conforming to what your ideas of him in your head are.  When you have some good times with someone and anticipate more, it's very easy to start thinking about them too much, and use your intellegence and creativity to think of  threats to it that don't really exist, rather then more ways to make it good.  Thats what all this insecurity I see here is.

All of you should go outside, and watch the world around you for a while.  Go sit at a busy corner, and think about your problem.  What do you notice?  All around you the world is still going on.  It's not a big deal at all!  Let it go.

You should all stop thinking about this.  Focus on something else every time you start to think about it.  Just let it go.


--------------------
"I am eternally free"

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Suffer]
    #4253242 - 06/03/05 05:51 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

+1

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Suffer]
    #4253580 - 06/03/05 07:18 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

It would seem to me that Mods and Admins are there to enforce the rules, not their views. This isn't meant to be a flame, Suffer, really. Sorry to see you go though.


But people actually chat on IRC??? Most times I've been to the 'Shroomery chat they just sit there, not saying a word. I'm sorry I missed this rare event.... :tongue:

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Vampire999]
    #4254024 - 06/03/05 09:27 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

holy fuck i hate when people start arguing in giant long paragraphs ...then i stop reading ...i guess that's how rational people argue... i like short  biting insults peppered wtih curse words and horribly offensive comments :wink:

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #4254032 - 06/03/05 09:30 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

oh and yeah id like to see you both at the gathering ...suffer man id be really really bummed if u didnt show...

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #4254858 - 06/04/05 01:43 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Come to the gathering. It's just like XBOX, only your ego dies!


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Rose]
    #4254889 - 06/04/05 01:55 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I eat egos like Eggos--I toast 'em and pour sugar syrup and butter on top and slop 'em on down.  I am Galactus.  I am devourer of Shroomerite Consciousnesses.  :sun:

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Liz]
    #4255432 - 06/04/05 09:55 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Dear Suffer,

When we hung out that weekend, I thought you were awesome. Hope we can do it again some day. You obviously aren't cut out to be an oper, when you make peaace with that, maybe you'll be able to come back and enjoy this place as a member. I look forward to that day and in the mean time good luck with whatever avenues you choose to persue.

Remember man, life is too short to take seriously. I know you "love this place" and "want what's best for the community" and every other (self)righteous motivation has led to this but its really all a result of just taking shit too seriously. If you do that here, its only a matter of time before you get eaten alive. You'd think a guy who's been here as long as you would have sen tha by now but who kknows, maybe you were just blinded by power and/or pussy.

Have fun and for Christ's sake buy a helmet


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #4260116 - 06/05/05 02:11 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Doobs :thumbup:


--------------------
delta9

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #4265273 - 06/06/05 07:48 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
maybe you were just blinded by power and/or pussy.





That was the single most offhandedly offensive comment I've ever seen anyone make about relationships or females in my time on the shroomery.


--------------------
z(0)=pixel;z(n+1)=z(n)^2+c

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: mathflower]
    #4265306 - 06/06/05 07:53 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

:shrug:

In your twenty-someodd days?

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: mathflower]
    #4265346 - 06/06/05 08:00 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mathflower said:
Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
maybe you were just blinded by power and/or pussy.





That was the single most offhandedly offensive comment I've ever seen anyone make about relationships or females in my time on the shroomery.



Well, you haven't been looking very hard, obviously.


--------------------
delta9

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: delta9]
    #4265362 - 06/06/05 08:04 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I dont browse as much i should.


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z(0)=pixel;z(n+1)=z(n)^2+c

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Redstorm]
    #4265365 - 06/06/05 08:05 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

:blush:


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z(0)=pixel;z(n+1)=z(n)^2+c

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: mathflower]
    #4265388 - 06/06/05 08:09 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

It happens.


--------------------
delta9

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: mathflower]
    #4265487 - 06/06/05 08:35 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

That was offensive? :doh:

I must be extremely desensitized, because to me it seems we have smileys more offensive than his comment. I wouldn't necessarily say he was wrong either.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Ravus]
    #4265509 - 06/06/05 08:42 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Maybe I'm partial to her. Since my bias is obviously effecting my decisions in this thread I better stop now before I get <insert funny irc comment here>.


--------------------
z(0)=pixel;z(n+1)=z(n)^2+c

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: mathflower]
    #4265534 - 06/06/05 08:50 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

:wink:

:heart:

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Ravus]
    #4266792 - 06/07/05 06:01 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
That was offensive? :doh:

I must be extremely desensitized, because to me it seems we have smileys more offensive than his comment. I wouldn't necessarily say he was wrong either.




you dont know me...and my "pussy" has nothing to do with suffer's decision to step down...since I'm still here, postwhoring it up...what sense would that make?  Wouldn;t that comment make more sense if he had left because I left?  I didn't repond to doobs original thread, because I'm quite used to him, and others, making underhanded comments about our relationship. I'm just done with the drama.  We love eachother, and if people have a problem with that, or want to call it being blinded by pussy, then that's just fine.  We both know that's not the case, and Mathflower, thanks for seeing that too.  :heart:


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.



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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Liz]
    #4267146 - 06/07/05 09:17 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

na-na-na-na-na-na train...
no I'm not joining the argument, just my 2 cents on the IRC/rasicsm issue.

I don't like rasicm and don't think it has a place in the main channel on IRC; this place may have spawned a community but don't forget that there will be people that are interested in mushrooms alone that come here and that's a horrible impression to make (and it's also probably why this place has little respect when it comes to the online 18+ drug community).

I only join the #shroomery channel when I am at home; vary rarely at work.

Thanks for your work suffer.


--------------------

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: blink]
    #4267873 - 06/07/05 01:16 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

but don't forget that there will be people that are interested in mushrooms alone that come here and that's a horrible impression to make

Upholding to highest degree a person's ability to practice freedom of speech is a horrible impression to make?

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: newuser1492]
    #4267965 - 06/07/05 01:32 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

There is a definite difference between freedom of speech, and people that just act racist for the sake of upsetting people. I believe 100% in freedom of speech, but #shroomery is a public chat room, and everyone needs to be mindful of the fact that others can get offended. There are plenty of other rooms, other than the main one, where people can say whatever the hell they want to say. I don't think that's censoring anyone, I think that's more along the lines of common courtesy.


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.



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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Liz]
    #4268055 - 06/07/05 01:44 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I don't go in there because of the rules so I can't speak to the general sentiment of users in that room.

I don't think that's censoring anyone, I think that's more along the lines of common courtesy.

What's courteous to you isn't to another. Where does it end? That is, like I said before, why I don't enter that room.

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Liz]
    #4268133 - 06/07/05 01:54 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ifallapart said:
I believe 100% in freedom of speech




If you ever censor anything, you're not 100% for freedom of speech

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Redstorm]
    #4268245 - 06/07/05 02:12 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

The Shroomery claims to be run like a business. How many businesses would hire an employee, or tolerate a customer running around yelling nigger at the top of their lungs? They'd get fired, or tossed out immediately. I'm not suggesting censoring people, but all of us are bright enough to know how to type /join #otd and say whatever you want to say in there.


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.



Edited by ifallapart (06/07/05 02:12 PM)

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Liz]
    #4268256 - 06/07/05 02:14 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not disagreeing with your decision. I was just making a clarification. Non-offensive language should be used in the lobby, but in OTD and other rooms, it should be allowed.

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Liz]
    #4268277 - 06/07/05 02:16 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ifallapart said:
The Shroomery claims to be run like a business.  How many businesses would hire an employee, or tolerate a customer running around yelling nigger at the top of their lungs? 





find the people on irc that are slinging racial slurs, make a list, and i'll personally see to it that the shroomery stops paying them.

/me pokes ifall with a stick  :grin:


--------------------
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: automan]
    #4268297 - 06/07/05 02:19 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I didn't say that the people who get paid are the same ones who are racist. I'm saying, in general, a lot of people in the main channel are.


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.



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InvisibleautomanM
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Liz]
    #4268349 - 06/07/05 02:29 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

i'm just poking at ya, ifall. to me, this has moved past the point of admin watching whats going on, so i figured i'd try to inject some fun.

find me on irc, we'll play some pool :smile:


--------------------
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr

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OfflinePlanet PHL
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: automan]
    #4270793 - 06/08/05 05:33 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

eh this is just getting silly, and it's not about Suffer at all anymore after the first 5 posts, its all about ifallapart.

Either way, none of this has to do with 'website announcements' anymore, so somebody lock this down?

Btw Great job to those who managed to distract the topic totally away from Suffer and onto themself.  :thumbup:

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Planet PHL]
    #4270812 - 06/08/05 05:54 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

:confused:

how is this thread totally about me?  because I stated my opinions in the debate about what the meaning of free speech is? 

That's bullshit.


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.



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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Liz]
    #4270929 - 06/08/05 07:49 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

As many of you are demonstrating, censorship and freedom of speech are difficult topics. On one hand, this sites mission is to "help stop the spread of dangerous misinformation about magic mushrooms so people can make intelligent and informed decisions about what they put in their bodies." The mission has nothing to do with free speech and the Shroomery has never made a claim that the members can say anything that they want. On the other hand, this site has tried to maintain an open an free attitude where our members can freely express their ideas and opinions. There is a delicate balance between keeping a censor free site and maintaining out mission of educating the public about mushrooms.

Unfortunately, there will always be bad apples that refuse to be responsible with their actions (or words) and instead will take advantage of the open nature of this site to cause trouble. These people scream that it is their right to post pictures of a woman eating shit out of some dudes ass, or to call people racist names, or any other sort of questionable behaviour. They know what they are doing, they know we have asked them not to do this, and they continue doing it for no other reason than to cause drama at the expense of the site itself. I have no sympathy for these folks when they get banned and come back crying about how unfair life is because we censored them.

With everything I just said in mind, the admin and mods have a very difficult time maintaining a fair balance between being open and protecting ourselves. Unfortunately, what Suffer wanted (as I understand it) is a hardline drawn in the rulebook with respect to censorship and racism. Unless the site as a whole took a "we only discuss mushrooms and nothing else" standpoint, the
"zero tolerance" rule that Suffer wanted simply would not work. He decided that he didn't want to be a part of a site that allowed racist comments, which I fully understand and appreciate, and so he left.

For those of you that think the Shroomery supports racism, think again. We try to support freedom of speech to express your opinions and ideas. However, if somebody starts to verbally attack another member because of race, religion, or anything else, then the moderators and admin will do what we can to put an end to it if we get complaints. I am not going to ban somebody from the site simply because they are racist anymore than I am going to ban somebody from the site because they smoke cigarettes. As I said, we try to maintain a balance. We aren't perfect and don't always get it right, but I think for the most part we do a pretty good job.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflinePlanet PHL
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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Seuss]
    #4270982 - 06/08/05 08:33 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

ifall: right you are, but to me it seems in-depth discussions about freedom of speech are better taken to a new threat orso.
This one is about Suffer saying goodbye as an admin and people paying their respects and to ask why etc. I know the differences in ideas about how free 'free speech' should be in IRC are one of the reasons of all this, but as can be seen it leads to messy argumentative threat that's not about Suffer at all anymore.

To suffer:
It's a bummer to see you leave this way man. I hope that as a non-admin after a while your frustration will fade a bit and a while from now you can enjoy just hanging around again. Cause you's a cool cat. Respect  :heart:

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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Seuss]
    #4271182 - 06/08/05 10:20 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Unfortunately, what Suffer wanted (as I understand it) is a hardline drawn in the rulebook with respect to censorship and racism.  Unless the site as a whole took a "we only discuss mushrooms and nothing else" standpoint, the
"zero tolerance" rule that Suffer wanted simply would not work.  He decided that he didn't want to be a part of a site that allowed racist comments, which I fully understand and appreciate, and so he left.





That's 100% wrong, for the record.  He didn't leave because of policy, and he wasn't enforcing a zero tolerance rule.  To this day, neither of us have received anything to show us where the claims that we banned for seeing the word nigger came from.  Suffer had not been acting that way towards racism in a long time, and neither had I, for that matter.  He left because he felt disrespected and unappreciated. 

I want that to be clear to everyone...he didn't leave because of the occasional "nigger" tossed around in #shroomery, and I didn't steo down as an op for that reason either.  We both banned on context, as logs would show, not for a word, and not for anything that others didn't see as a big deal as well as us. 

Just thought I'd clarify that.  :tripping:


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.



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Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Seuss]
    #4271267 - 06/08/05 10:44 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Seuss :thumbup:


...Now that we're talking about first impressions on IRC, here is mine. I only a few days ago decided to join Shroomery IRC for the first time.

My first choice was to go to #cultivation. I mean the cultivation chartoom.. that's where the action is, right?
Riiiiight :rolleyes:

Situation: I joined the channel and did not say a damn thing other than the automated announcenent "Wiccan_Seeker has joined #cultivation"

Because IRC is public I will not edit out the names involved and just post the entire event. The names heve been protected to change the participants :wink:

Quote:


[11:07] Private: -ChanServ- Welcome to #cultivation. Feel free to ask any cultivation question you may have. Please refrain from answering questions to which you do not know the answer.
Updated internal address list
<Gurry> haha
<Gurry> no wiccans either
<wiccan_seeker> lol?
<Gurry> they deffinetly cant be in the club
<hydr042> yeah
<hydr042> wiccans are fags
<hydr042> and gays
<Gurry> ohh moon goddes
<hydr042> also
<Gurry> s
<hydr042> homosexual
<hydr042> s
<Gurry> engulf me in your rays
<Gurry> do a magiuc trick
<Gurry> magically get me 1500 dollars
<Gurry> with your witch magiK
<Gurry> K not C
<hydr042> magically
<hydr042> fuck me in the ass
<hydr042> plez
<wiccan_seeker> wow thats 4d073sc3n7
Session ended 11:09





I stepped out not because i felt offended but because it was clear to me that nothing but adolescent boredom could be had there.

Now I'm not a newbie, i know that this stuff happens. But let's say I was Mr. Stamets who came to check out the Shroomery? A grower that has invented PF-TEK 2.0 and wants to share it with our well-known internet community? Or somebody more easily offended or new to the site?

Without having typed a single iota I hear that I don't belong, my sexuality is questioned and bashed and my appearant religion coarsely attacked as an appearantly passable substitute for the common "howdy stranger".

If someone in charge of a chatroom sees inappropriate hostile behavior (which includes racism) then they can ban right away as far as I'm concerned. Its only IRC, seeya when you cooled off a lil.

People out to insult and offend? Fuck them and the horse they rode in on. There's no need to tolerate that stuff.
We're not kids anymore, please!


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
Male

Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 61,026
Loc: the sky
Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Asante]
    #4271278 - 06/08/05 10:47 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

:nonono:  Those kids sound like idiots.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Liz]
    #4271584 - 06/08/05 12:01 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

> That's 100% wrong, for the record.

*shrug* As I said, that is how I understand it...

> Now that we're talking about first impressions on IRC, here is mine.

I have never been able to understand the draw of IRC in general. I have yet to see an IRC channel that doesn't break down into eleetism, flames, and hatred of some nature. There is something about mostly anonymous realtime chat that brings out the lowest in people.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinehydr0420
Psycopahtic Ryda

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/04
Posts: 328
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: Seuss]
    #4271750 - 06/08/05 12:42 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Heh.
Nice one Wiccan_Seeker
You walked in in the middle of something, most likely me making fun of someone else, so i though id throw you in there, just to feel loved for joining the chan.
I wouldnt doubt, if like you commented, that I was banned shorty after those comments.
Also, Most likely drunk.
Srry if we offended you.
#cultivation does get off topic sometimes, but as soon as a question actually concerning cultivation comes up, we are more than happy to answer them for you, make sure your satisfied, then continue berating eachother.
Hard love.
-dr0

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InvisibleBurke Dennings
baby merchant

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 81,641
Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: hydr0420]
    #4271791 - 06/08/05 12:53 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Hydr0420, you're a fucking fag.


(Was that appropriate to this discussion? It's just as relevant in #cultivation.)

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Offlinehydr0420
Psycopahtic Ryda

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/04
Posts: 328
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
Re: Goodbye shroomery... (why i quit) [Re: hydr0420]
    #4271812 - 06/08/05 12:57 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

yz yz
i love the cock  :heart: :penis:
especially suffers  (on topic here guyz!)
i wish he wasnt leaving.
goodluck
-dr0

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