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Offlinejohnjohnandjamal
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Registered: 04/20/05
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Extraction for ibotenic acid and muscimol from Amanita Muscaria?
    #4139844 - 05/05/05 11:46 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

The title explains it all.

Is there an extraction method out there for isolating these two substances from the amanita muscaria mushroom?

If so, would consume of just these two substances decrease nausea?

I did a search and nothing came up so if anyone knows, please post!

Thanks!


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Extraction for ibotenic acid and muscimol from Amanita Muscaria? [Re: johnjohnandjamal]
    #4141030 - 05/06/05 08:04 AM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Well, not to burst your bubble,

But Jonathan Ott use to do this for a living back in the 1980s when he lived on Vashon Island before moving to an underground home in Xalapa, Veracruz..

Acfcording to Ott, First off, it takes from 100 to 125 pounds of fresh Amanita muscaria and/or of A, pantherina or similar species to produce just one gram of ibotenic acid.

Ott was able to extract enough ibotenic acid from over three pounds of Amanitas and it took one year to produce three grams of the chemical, ibotenic acid. He sold them to a pharmaceutical firm for approximatley 5,000 dollars per gram each.

Jonathan basically said it was to much work and time for just 3 grams of chemical to make it worth the while.

So Unless you are a biochemist with lots of expensive laboratory equiptment, I really do not see you extracting any of these chemicals from Amanitas (from personal communications with Ott, 1990)

mjshroomer


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Offlinejohnjohnandjamal
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Re: Extraction for ibotenic acid and muscimol from Amanita Muscaria? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #4143243 - 05/06/05 06:33 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Its not bursting my bubble...just wondering.

No one ever talks about it. I guess this is why...lol

Thanks alot!


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InvisiblePinback
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Registered: 07/20/02
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Loc: Northern Europe
Re: Extraction for ibotenic acid and muscimol from Amanita Muscaria? [Re: johnjohnandjamal]
    #4143567 - 05/06/05 08:11 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

If you only need a crude extraction, not an isolation, both substances are readily soluble in cold water.


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Offlinejohnjohnandjamal
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Re: Extraction for ibotenic acid and muscimol from Amanita Muscaria? [Re: Pinback]
    #4143787 - 05/06/05 09:08 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

I dont really need to isolate the chemicals, I just want to remove some of the plant material. I want to experiment with smoking an extract of some sort.

Any advice?


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Offlinecrazyman
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Re: Extraction for ibotenic acid and muscimol from Amanita Muscaria? [Re: johnjohnandjamal]
    #4144006 - 05/06/05 10:20 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Dude, if you smoked or consumed pure ibotenic acid or muscimol, I don't know where that would take you, or if you would come back!!!LOL
If I'm not mistaken Jonathon Ott also described drying and smoking the pelicle, (or the skin from the cap), of the muscaria or pantherina mushroom for good effects. Supposedly drying a fresh muscaria/pantherina, allows most of the less desirable ibotenic acid to turn to muscimol. So if you're "acquiring" any A. muscarias or pantherinas, they're already dry and with a higher percentage of muscimol to ibotenic acid than if they were fresh.
Ott also says that muscarine varies in potency from one batch to another without any kind of way of predicting.... My last A.muscaria experience was not good due to the fact that the specimens I ordered happened to have a high amount of muscarine, which produced side effects of heavy sweating and profuse salivation. Not the vendors fault, or mine...just happened to be an A. muscaria with higher levels of muscarine, which is only lethal in very high doses. I'm rambling. sorry.


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Offlinejohnjohnandjamal
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Re: Extraction for ibotenic acid and muscimol from Amanita Muscaria? [Re: crazyman]
    #4150772 - 05/08/05 07:36 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

anybody have a process? How are these internet companies making 20x extract?


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Offlinealkloid
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Re: Extraction for ibotenic acid and muscimol from Amanita Muscaria? [Re: johnjohnandjamal]
    #5734140 - 06/10/06 02:31 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

lazy little buggers ! never heard of a library? well I’ve
done it for you. below are two papers on the extraction of
ibotenic acid and muscimol, one german ( original form
and run through bable ) the other english.
what they are basically saying is dry youre mushys ( get
more psycho active) add to boiling water and allow to
cool.
add an ion exchange resin ( easily available for water
purification. tell the sales man that you have a natural
spring and are particularly worried about the nitrate run
off from that big cornfield next to your property ( if you
live in a city go for a drive ) ) pour of the gunk ( maybe
save for another go) then pour some ( could try a wash
with distilled water first but save and evaporate it if you
do ) dilute distilled white vinegar through the resin,
collect the acid/water/product and set a fan over it to
evaporate. if you wanted to mess about with boiling up
ants or stinging nettles you could try the formic acid
route.

quick acid base extraction seems to work but as
muscimol/ibotenic acid is zwiterion you get messy gel
stage and have to add a lot of base, so probably very low
yeild and waste of time

doseage:
ibotenic acid 1 mg / kg
muscimol 15mg per person

if you dry the mushys first then you should end up with
muscimol so use that one


WIRKSTOFFE AUS AMANITA MUSCARIA :
IBOTENSAEURE UND MUSCAZON

Die allgemein bekannten Wirkstoffe des Fliegenpilzes,
wie Muscarin, Acetycholin und Muscaridin bieten keine
Erklärung für das Gesamtbild der Fliegenpilzvergiftung
(1). Wir haben deshalb schon vor längerer Zeit nach
weiteren, physiologisch aktiven inhaltsstoffen zu suchen
begonnen. Eine breite pharmakologische Prüfung der
wasserlöslichen Anteile ergab das Vorliegen von
Fraktionen mit starker narkosepotenzierender Wirkung.
Zur präparativen Isolierung diente ein entfetteter
Alkoholextrakt aus Amanita muscaria, der besonders
schonend aufgearbeitet worden war. Durch sorgfältige
Trennung an Dowex 50 W x 12 (H) mit wasser und
verdünnter Ameisensäure erhielten wir kristallisierte
Ibotensäure (2) Smp. 145 (Zers.) , C5H8N2O5 und
Muscazon, Smp. > 190 (Zers.) , C5H6N2O4 . Beide
Verbindungen reagieren mit Ninhydrin auf Papier gelb
und geben mit Grote’s reagens blaue Flecken.

Die Ausbeute an Ibotensäure betrug in der Ernte 196?
215g aus ca. 700 kg Frischpilzen, d.h. 0,03 %. Der
wirkliche Gehalt darf auf 0,05 % geschätzt werden,
sodass Ibotensäure wegen ihrer hohen
pharmakodynamischen wirksamkeit als wesentlicher
inhaltsstoff von Amanita muscaria angesehen werden
darf.

Nach weniger schonender Aufarbeitung isolierten wir
196? einen Wirkstoff , C4H6N2O2, Smp. 174-175 , aus
wasser - methanol, welcher sich als Abbauprodukt von
Ibotensäure erwies.




ACTIVE SUBSTANCES FROM AMANITA
MUSCARIA: IBOTENSAEURE AND MUSCAZON
Those generally did not admit active substances the fly
mushroom, like Muscarin, Acetycholin and Muscaridin
offer an explanation for the overall view of the fly
mushroom poisoning (1). We therefore already began to
look before longer time for further, physiologically active
contents materials. A broad pharmakologische
examination of the water-soluble portions resulted in
being present parliamentary groups with strong
narkosepotenzierender effect. For the praeparativen
isolation a degreased alcohol excerpt from Amanita
served muscaria, which had been particularly carefully
regenerated. By careful separation at Dowex 50 W x 12
(H) with water and diluted formic acid we received
crystallized Ibotensaeure (2) Smp. 145 (Zers.) ,
C5H8N2O5 and Muscazon, Smp. 190 (Zers.) ,
C5H6N2O4. Both connections react with Ninhydrin to
paper yellow and give with Grote's reagent blue marks.
The yield at Ibotensaeure amounted to in the harvest
196? 215g out approx.. 700 kg fresh mushrooms, i.e.
0.03 %. the real content may become estimated on 0,05
%, so that Ibotensaeure may be regarded because of their
high pharmacodynamic effectiveness as substantial
contents material of Amanita muscaria. After less careful
processing we isolated 196? an active substance,
C4H6N2O2, Smp. 174-175, from water - methanol,
which proved as dismantling product of Ibotensaeure.



paper 2:


A novel constituent of amanita muscaria


isolation of 3-hydroxyisoxazole from natural sources.

fresh plants were added to boiling water, cooled rapidly,
filtered and the filtrates treated with Deacidite FF (base)
resin. The resin was washed with water and the
compound eluted by means of acetic acid.The eluate was
freeze-dried, disolved in water and passed down a
column of celulose phosphate (whatman P70). the
substance gave a pale yellow band which was elated with
N NH4OH and the eluate freeze dried . The
semi-purified material was crystallized from alcohol to
give the compound, mp. 172-174 (decomp)


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Extraction for ibotenic acid and muscimol from Amanita Muscaria? [Re: johnjohnandjamal]
    #5734169 - 06/10/06 02:40 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

How are these internet companies making 20x extract?





They probably extract the dried mushroom three times with Everclear and then evaporate to yield a resinous substance.


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Offlinealkloid
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Registered: 06/10/06
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Last seen: 7 years, 30 days
Re: Extraction for ibotenic acid and muscimol from Amanita Muscaria? [Re: alkloid]
    #5734175 - 06/10/06 02:41 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

to the guy that claims to corespond with mr j ott. seems that the german guys get a bigger yeild (regional variation) and he was making a very very pure product for sale to pharma companies, may be he did not want to tell you how to make 5k in a couple of weeks every autumn. but any way for the purposes of taking it youre self the above method should be cheap, quick and safe.
caution 15 mg is very very small.

be safe have a sitter !


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Offlinealkloid
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Re: Extraction for ibotenic acid and muscimol from Amanita Muscaria? [Re: Asante]
    #5986244 - 08/22/06 11:50 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

yes it would be a 20 times weight extraction with a solvent.

new information and research!

wondering around my local supermarket recently, happened to pick up a box of water filters ( you know the ones , in the jug ) and guese what they contain activated charcoal ( usefull) and ion exchange resin to remove the nitrates.
how easy just pick some up at youre local wallmart alternative, separate them , wash in distilled water and youre away.

love akl


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