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Invisiblegdman
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Re: Failing a drug test for legal herbs [Re: neuro]
    #3682297 - 01/26/05 08:40 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

yeah poppy seeds can have some residual latex material on them, no where near enough to feel any kind of buzz or anything, but it coul dbe enough to posibly trigger a positive, just be careful I guess.


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Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
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OfflineAuroricDistortions
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Re: Failing a drug test for legal herbs [Re: neuro]
    #3682339 - 01/26/05 09:03 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Some relevant info...

"The cutoff concentration for this test is 2000 ng/ml, as recommended by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) and the U.S. National Institute of Drug Abuse (NIDA). Prior to December 1, 1998 the cutoff level was 300 ng/ml but was raised in order to reduce the possibility of false positives from poppy seeds. The cutoff for GC-MS, which detects morphine or codeine, is 150 ng/ml. The US Military uses a cutoff level of 3000 ng/ml in order to try to avoid false positives...With the new higher cutoff levels (2,000 ng/ml), Heroin use will generally only produce a positive test result for a day after single use (somewhat longer with chronic use)." link


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InvisibleBolwarra
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Re: Failing a drug test for legal herbs [Re: AuroricDistortions]
    #3691859 - 01/28/05 12:19 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

i recently watched that episode of Myth busters too!

they even had a scientist explain opiate testing works by 'looking' for codeine and morphine @ levels of 300-1200 ngm's.

Quote:

Fact: Poppy seeds that are consumed commonly are not opium poppies.

Fact: Just because someone says something on the Internet is a fact doesn't make it a fact. Find out for yourself what the truth is through reliable resources.




Maybe you should follow your own advice.
Actually the common poppy seeds are a by-product of legal Papaver somniferum cultivation and as such comes from the 'real' poppy.

--
seems like the jury is still out re: Kratom


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Failing a drug test for legal herbs [Re: monkeyking]
    #3692568 - 01/28/05 07:43 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I'm just going to post this in all relevant threads that have popped up about this for cataloguing and archivng for anyone who does a future search for Kratom and Drug test info in this forum and doesn't read all the threads, they will at least find the answer.

Quote:


This is a wrong assumption. Just because a chemical acts on a receptor doesn't mean it causes false positives.



With the large group of chemicals we have found that act on opiate receptors and the varying subtypes, Salvinorin, Opiate Narcotics, and what we call Opioids like the Fentanyls, it is no longer safe to say that a chemical that acts on opiate receptors will be structurally similar to the classical opiates like morphine and codeine. And this is the key to the detection of drugs, specifically drug metabolites, in urine: their structure. Fentanyls are very much different than the classical opiates like morphine and codeine. Thus a new immunoassay must be developed, that is new antibodies must be produced that bind to the fentanyl structures.



Drug tests work by testing for metabolites of illegal drugs.


When a drug is ingested by the body it goes through several modifications. These modifications are usually done with first (in some cases) digestive juices and enzymes and second peripheral circulatory and cellular enzymes or liver enzymes not included in the initial digestive pass.


The enzymes that act on drugs are sometimes specific and sometimes not, for example MAOIs have certain wide affects on drugs Indoles and Phenethylamines aren't too closely related but MAOIs of a certain type will act on both.



Drug detection works by proceeding through a specific chemical reaction called an immunoassay. Drug-test dip sticks contain antibodies, that are produced in test animals or cell cultures as part of the immune system, on them that can bind with drug metabolites of a specific type.


An example:


Morphine can be made into heroin (diacetylmorphine) by the addition of two acetyl groups. Heroin, after injection, smoking, etc.. is quickly metabolized in the body to 6-acetylmorphine by the removal of one acetyl group and, then, morphine after the removal of the second acetyl group.


These antibodies, that are made for the testing device, are made to specifically bind to a drug such as morphine. However, the morphine antibody will also bind drugs that are very similar in chemical structure to morphine. Codeine is very similar in chemical structure to morphine, as are three synthetic narcotics: Dilaudid (hydromorphone), Percodan (oxycodone), and Vicodin (hydrocodone). The immunoassay screening tests for opiates will detect to varying degrees all of these narcotics. The synthetic narcotics Darvon (propoxyphene), Demerol (meperidine), and methadone are not detected by the opiate immunoassays.


Heroin, morphine, codeine, Dilaudid, Percodan and Vicodin are all narcotic analgesics that can be abused and are addictive. A positive morphine screen with test stick kits can be caused by any of these drugs and, also, consumption of several teaspoons of poppy seeds. This is true with all opiate immunoassays, whether lab or on-site rapid screens.


A comparison of Morphine and Kratom Alkaloid:







On a side note:


However, the 6-acetylmorphine metabolite is detectable in urine for only several hours after use of heroin, while morphine is detectable above the 2,000 ng/mL for about a day. It has been shown that consumption of poppy seeds in most cases will not result in a morphine concentration of 2,000 ng/mL or greater. With no 6-acetylmorphine found, detecting the presence of morphine or codeine. Codeine can be present from use of codeine and from use of heroin. If the codeine level is higher than the morphine level, the source is probably codeine use. Raising the cutoff for opiates from 300 ng/mL to 2,000 ng/mL reduces the time window of detection for heroin, morphine and codeine to about a day after use. It, also, eliminates most poppy seed positives.



Edited by neuro (01/28/05 07:48 AM)

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OfflineAgaricus
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Re: Failing a drug test for legal herbs [Re: Signo]
    #3693496 - 01/28/05 12:47 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

It looks as though McCormick uses Papaver somniferum L. for their seeds.

http://www.mccormick.com/productdetail.cfm?id=6434

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Invisiblegdman
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Re: Failing a drug test for legal herbs [Re: Agaricus]
    #3693520 - 01/28/05 12:52 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

All poppy seeds used for cooking are P. Somniferum, I'm pretty sure of that. However, do those seeds contain enough alkaloids to trigger a positive? Probably not, but I don't know. The only reason why they would contain alkaloids, would be if some latex somehow stuck to some of the seeds. I believe they wash the seeds before they pack them, so that would further reduce the possibility of a false positive.


--------------------


Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
  - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess

"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve

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Offlineneuro
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Re: Failing a drug test for legal herbs [Re: gdman]
    #3693713 - 01/28/05 01:50 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Pharamceutial drug testing industries claim the seeds contain alkaloids to a certain percentage.

Dr. Duke has to say:

CODEINE Seed Low ppm: 0.1 high ppm: 440

MORPHINE Seed Low ppm:0.3 High ppm:390

THEBAINE Seed low ppm: 10 high ppm: 410

source: http://sun.ars-grin.gov:8080/npgspub/xsql/duke/plantdisp.xsql?taxon=697



And yes Papaver Somniferum is the only source for poppyseed/breadseed poppy.

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Offlinewhitegreyhat
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Re: Failing a drug test for legal herbs [Re: neuro]
    #4137653 - 05/05/05 12:46 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:



Laboratory Methods
Laboratory detection of morphine and codeine is performed by immunoassay. Confirmation is by gas chromatography/mass spectrometry (GC/MS).

Cutoff and Detection Post Dose
The detection limit of the initial screen is 300 ng/ml, with a sensitivity of 20 ng/ml. This is sufficient to detect heroin use for approximately 24-48 hours post dose and codeine for somewhat longer. Positives are confirmed on GC/MS at a cutoff level of 300 ng/ml.



http://www.healthy.net/clinic/lab/labtest/007.asp

Therefor we can deduce that most drugs that are metabolized into morphine (diacetylmorphine) are detectable on standard drug tests as opiates. Drugs like vicodin which break down into hydromorphone are detectable only if they test specifically for that substance.

I cannot say for sure but i dont think there is any proof that wild lettuce , kratom (9-methoxy-corynantheidine) or any other herbs break down into morphine or any other illegal substance. As for poppy seeds, I believe you would have to eat a massive amount to test positive, but if your getting tested why take the risk anyway... Not like poppy seeds can get you high right?

So if i am interpreting this right that means they take metabolite cells that are specifically designed to react with dicetylmorphine (for drug testing opiates)from animals or other artificial means to see if it reacts, thus causing a positive test result. (as for the substances in question we dont have specific information as to what they metabolize into in the body so you cant really answer the question unless you know that)

Debate or comment if you think i am wrong...

Also check this
http://www.erowid.org/pharms/hydrocodone/hydrocodone_testing.shtml

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/testing/testing_info1.shtml
Also they are right kratom is closer to lsd and psilocybin chemically, its an indole. http://www.kratomshop.com/cureaddiction.htm


Also here is a complete article on the articles on Kratom Alkaloids, its too scientific for me to understand but maybe someone can!


http://www.unodc.org/unodc/bulletin/bulletin_1974-01-01_2_page005.html


does this make sense to anyone else?

Edited by whitegreyhat (05/05/05 04:23 PM)

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InvisibleSkunk420
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Re: Failing a drug test for legal herbs [Re: neuro]
    #4697448 - 09/22/05 09:01 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

wow, but will Kratom cause a false positive for opium though, in a regular urine drug test? it seems like it might because it feels actually better then a opiate high to me. But I tried 2 grams in a tea the first time, but i seeped it for 20 minutes, I got very good effects like i took some oxycodones, but it was cleaner and it didnt make me itch like opiates do.
I tried super grade kratom, i ordered the premium and the sent me super, they must have been out..
I still have 4 grams left and I have to take random drug tests weekly for counceling.
P.S. this is to anyone that knows of this first hand..

Edited by skunk78395 (09/22/05 09:05 PM)

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OfflineIamthewalrus Happy Birthday!
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Re: Failing a drug test for legal herbs [Re: whitegreyhat]
    #4699330 - 09/23/05 04:57 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

actually they(I forget their names I haven't seen mythbusers in a while) tested postive for opiates almost immediately after eating the bagels and poppy seed cake(1 ate cake and 1 ate bagels but both tested positive after the first test and all tests after that) they were very surprised themselves...they expected to bust the myth

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Failing a drug test for legal herbs [Re: neuro]
    #4704281 - 09/24/05 07:23 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

neuro said:
>>Kratom can possibly cause a opium positive

Drug tests test for metabolites of specific drugs





some clinical tests test for covering agents instead of the metabolite, also many
OTC meds can produce false positive on drug tests, Ibuprofin can test positive as Marijuana

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InvisibleSkunk420
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Re: Failing a drug test for legal herbs [Re: neuro]
    #4710450 - 09/25/05 03:27 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

neuro said:
>>Kratom can possibly cause a opium positive

Drug tests test for metabolites of specific drugs, kratom alkaloids are not similar to the the classical opiates and hence do not produce the same metabolites. You won't fail a drug test when using kratom.


..well it figures I would miss that, never mind... that answers my question then..I already ordered some more anyway. I am only going to do it every once in a while anyway.  :smirk:

Edited by skunk78395 (09/25/05 03:28 PM)

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