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InvisibleHermes_br
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Boletus Manicus Heim - very potent mushroom
    #2889976 - 07/14/04 03:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

from:  the-hive.ws

:shocked: :tongue2:

Boletus Manicus Heim


Benjamin Thomas, B.A.(Hons)*

Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 35(3), 393-394 (2003)


Abstract
Boletus manicus Heim [Boletaceae] is a species of fungus found in Papua New Guinea. It is reported to have psychoactive properties. The chemistry of this species is poorly understood. The available chemical data indicates that B. manicus contains trace amounts of three unidentified indolic substances. The chemical structure of these substances has not yet been determined. For these indoles to be active in trace amounts they must be as potent as d-lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD).

Boletus manicus Heim [Family: Boletaceae; Order: Agaricales; Class: Basidiomycetes] is a species of fungi that was originally collected and described by the French mycologist Roger Heim [1900-1979] from Papua New Guinea in the 1960s (Heim 1963). In August to September 1963, Heim visited the Wahgi Valley in the Western Highlands Province of Papua New Guinea for three weeks with American ethnomycologist R. Gordon Wasson [1898-1986] (Heim & Wasson 1965). Heim and Wasson visited the Wahgi Valley to investigate reports by Australian anthropologist Marie Reay [1922-2000] that the Kuma people used apparently hallucinogenic [sic] fungi (Reay 1960). B. manicus has become well known for its psychoactive properties, as a result of many popular books (R?tsch 1998; Dobkin de Rios 1984; Schultes & Hofmann 1979; Emboden 1972). It is reported to produce visual and auditory hallucinations (Thomas 2000: 172)

The chemistry of B. Manicus remains poorly understood and the active principle is unkown (Schultes & Hofmann 1980). However, B. Manicus contain indolic substances (Ratsch 1998: 688;Ott 1993: 422). The presence of these indolic substances was originally reported by Heim(Heim 1965) Heim provided samples of B. Manicus to Albert Hofmann in his Sandoz AG laboratory in Basel, Switzerland, in the 1960s (Hofmann 2001). Hofmann, the Swiss chemist who discovered d-lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), detected trace amounts of three indolic substances in B. Manicus (Ott 1993: 298 & 422) but "The amounts were too low to allow structural studies" (Hofmann 2001).
Heim has suggested that these indolic substances "could be psychotropic" (Heim 1072: 173). As a result, Heim conducted three bioassays with B. Manicus. These trials with "weak dose"( less than 60 mg; Ott 1993:298) were attemped by Heim, who suggested that "the amount were insufficient to make any definite deductions" (Heim 1972:173).
However, in the second trial, the ingestion of a powder made by crushing the fresh of B. Manicus was followed by "the appearance of several luminous, fleeting visions during the course of a dream" (Heim 19072: 173)

Evidence for the presence of indolic substances in B. manicus can be found in the description of both the visual and auditory effects of these mushrooms (Reay 1977). After ingesting B. manicus Kuma men experienced "Lilliputian hallucinations [sic]" (Reay 1977: 59). Similar hallucinations have been reported with other species of Boletus (Stijve 1997: 33). In China, the ingestion of uncooked boletes has been reported to produce hallucinations of "a whole regiment of 2 cm tall soldiers marching over the table-cloth" (Stijve 1997: 33). "Lilliputian hallucinations [sic]" have also been experienced with the use of N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) (O'Rorke 1998: 32). The Kuma experienced "Lilliputian hallucinations [sic]" of bush-demons flying about their heads (Reay 1977: 59). The Kuma regarded bush-demons as "tiny, two-dimensional, and often transparent creatures . . . [and] always identified cartoon figures . . . readily and positively as representations of bush-demons" (Reay 1977: 59). Such demons would "buzz" about their heads. It was reported by one Kuma man who had eaten B. manicus that these demons also made a "strange and terrible noise 'inside his ears' which he interpreted as a bush-demon boxing his ears" (Reay 1977: 59). Psilocybin often produces a similar "buzzing" noise (Beach 1996-1997: 13).

If any of the unidentified indolic substances in B. manicus are psychoactive, then they must be as potent, if not more potent, than LSD (Ott 1999). Assuming that B. manicus contains 1% of these indolic substances, which is a much higher concentration of indoles than Hofmann found in Mexican Psilocybe mushrooms (Hofmann 1960), a 1% concentration would represent less than 0.6 mg (600 ?g) of these substances (Ott 1999). Jonathan Ott has suggested that "we know of no fungal indole active at this level" (Ott 1999). The only substance that could explain psychoactivity at or below this level is LSD (Ott 1999). It is, of course, possible that B. manicus might contain LSD. If it does, it is difficult to understand why Albert Hofmann was unable to detect its presence in B. manicus samples that he analyzed in his laboratory. For this reason, it is unlikely that B. manicus does contain LSD. It is possible, however, that B. manicus contains an as yet unidentified psychoactive indolic substance that is more potent than LSD.

* independent anthropologist, Queensland, Australia.
Please address correspondence and reprint request to Benjamin Thomas, P.O. Box 392, Ashgrove, Queensland 4060, Australia.


References
Beach, H. 1996-1997. Listening for the Logos: A study of reports of audible voices at high doses of psilocybin. Bulletin of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies 6 (1): 12-17.
Dobkin de Rios, M. 1984. Hallucinogens: Cross-Cultural Perspectives. Albuquerque: University of New Mexico Press.
Emboden, W.A. 1972. Narcotic Plants. New York: MacMillan Co. Heim, R. 1972. Mushroom madness in the Kuma. Human Biology in Oceania 1: 170-78.
Heim, R. 1965. Les champignons associ?s ? la folie des Kuma. etude descriptive et iconographie. Cahiers du Pacifique 7: 7-64.
Heim, R. 1963. Diagnoses latines des esp?ces de champignons ou, nonda associ?s a la folie du komugl ta? et du ndaadl. Revue de Mycologie 28 (3-4): 277-83.
Heim, R. & Wasson, R.G. 1965. The "mushroom madness" of the Kuma. Botanical Museum Leaflets (Harvard University) 21(1): 1-36.
Hofmann, A. 2001. Personal communications.
Hofmann, A. 1960. Die psychotropen Wirkstoffe der mexicanischen Zauberpilze. Chimia 14: 309-18.
O'Rorke, I. 1998. Welcome to the leisure dome. The Idler February-March: 30-34.
Ott, J. 1999. Personal communications.
Ott, J. 1993. Pharmacotheon: Entheogenic Drugs, Their Plant Sources and History. Kennewick: Natural Products Co.
R?tsch, C. 1998. Enzyklop?die der Psychoactiven Pflanzen. Botanik, Ethnopharmakologie und Andwendungen Mit einem Vorwort von Albert Hofmann. Aarau: AT Verlag.
Reay, M. 1977. Ritual madness observed: A discarded pattern of fate in
Papua New Guinea. Journal of Pacific History 12: 55-79.
Reay, M. 1960. "Mushroom madness" in the New Guinea highlands. Oceania 31 (2): 137-39.
Schultes, R.E. & Hofmann, A. 1980. The Botany and Chemistry of Hallucinogens. Second Edition. Springfield: C.C. Thomas.
Schultes, R.E. & Hofmann, A. 1979. Plants of the Gods: Origins of Hallucinogenic Use. New York: McGraw-Hill.
Stijve, T. 1997. Hallucinogenic boletes in China? Eleusis: Journal of Psychoactive Plants and Compounds 7: 33.
Thomas, B. 2000. Psychoactive card Xlll: Boletus manicus. Eleusis: Journal of Psychoactive Plants and Compounds 4 (n.s.): 167-74.


Edited by Hermes_br (08/17/04 04:04 PM)


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Offlinethegnomeking
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Re: Boletus Manicus Heim - very potent mushroom [Re: Hermes_br]
    #2900433 - 07/17/04 06:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

wow, I've never heard of that before. Are they legal, are they safe, and if so where can they be found? id like to know whatever else you can tell me about them, how long they last, how many you have to eat, and why I 've never heard of them before. peace

    :shocked:


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OfflineVulture
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Re: Boletus Manicus Heim - very potent mushroom [Re: thegnomeking]
    #2900519 - 07/17/04 07:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

sweet

there has to be some more psycadelics out there some where.


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Offlinearray
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Re: Boletus Manicus Heim - very potent mushroom [Re: Vulture]
    #2900557 - 07/17/04 08:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Some boletus are poisonous (mostly the orange and red pored ones) and hard to ID. some also bruise extremely blue within seconds. i dont think i would try to eat any of those.


Edited by array (07/17/04 08:25 PM)


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OfflineDEATH666
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Re: Boletus Manicus Heim - very potent mushroom [Re: array]
    #2902987 - 07/18/04 05:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

What if they bleed red shit that looks like blood?I found one big one and cut it with my knife and what looked like blood started to bleed out.


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OfflineQandA
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Re: Boletus Manicus Heim - very potent mushroom [Re: DEATH666]
    #2903016 - 07/18/04 06:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

As far as blueing goes with the boletus species, it is irrelevant to their psychoactive properties. That's because the blueing is caused by the actual tissue of the mushroom and not by psilocybin, since they have none. Just thought I would make a note. :blush:


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InvisibleHermes_br
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Re: Boletus Manicus Heim - very potent mushroom [Re: thegnomeking]
    #2904780 - 07/19/04 09:35 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

sorry, but i know as much as you do...

I'm suprised there's such  a small interest and information about them.  :confused:  :smirk:


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OfflineQandA
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Re: Boletus Manicus Heim - very potent mushroom [Re: Hermes_br]
    #2904850 - 07/19/04 10:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

IF you want to know more, I think mjshroomer is very knowledgable in them.


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OfflineSeppuko
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Re: Boletus Manicus Heim - very potent mushroom [Re: DEATH666]
    #2907306 - 07/20/04 02:57 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)



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Re: Boletus manicus etc. [Re: Hermes_br]
    #2982678 - 08/09/04 06:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

There are even more species listed among potential and confirmed psychedelics at entheogen.com. I'd really like to hear more comments...


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InvisibleHermes_br
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Re: Boletus manicus etc. [Re: ivi]
    #2985896 - 08/10/04 02:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

what I find most intriguing, is that Albert Hofmann didn't pursued further analysis..

from what I would suppose,from my readings about him, he wouldn't have stopped until characterizing the indols. :confused:


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OfflinePhishgrrl
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Re: Boletus manicus etc. [Re: Hermes_br]
    #2987477 - 08/10/04 07:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

that's crazy....

BTW, I have heard that there have been many reports of psychedelic effects from "non-psychedelic" mushrooms. It's a mysterious world.


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InvisibleHermes_br
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Re: Boletus manicus etc. [Re: Phishgrrl]
    #2987863 - 08/10/04 08:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's a mysterious world

Ideed............ :eek: :eyemouth:  :laugh:


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InvisibleHarveyWalbanger
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Re: Boletus manicus etc. [Re: Hermes_br]
    #2987869 - 08/10/04 08:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

My guess is its difficult to isolate with such a mininscule amount per specimine.


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OfflineHawkeye2
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Re: Boletus manicus etc. [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #2988095 - 08/10/04 09:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So put a bunch of specimens together until you have more than a miniscule amount!! ;-)


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Re: Boletus Manicus Heim - very potent mushroom [Re: Hermes_br]
    #3007687 - 08/16/04 02:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

anyone else up for a trip to Papua?


--------------------


Have: Agaricus bitorquis; Lepista saeva; Lepista nuda; SRA; Pioppino; Agaricus 'marzipan'

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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Boletus manicus etc. [Re: Hermes_br]
    #3008889 - 08/16/04 02:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Albert Hofmann did not pursue this further because he believed that there were no chemicals to be found in the mushrooms. There are six species of boletes, two Heimeilla's and several species of Russulas, all believed to be similar.

and then there is the one Psilocybe named in honor of the Kuma indians. That would be a more likely suspect for the hallucinations. The females talk about great sexual experiences which they have have while under the influence of the shrooms, but then they have no sex while doing them. They just talk about it..

It is still doubtful as to if they are or are not psychoactive,.

Yes someone should go down there amongst the cannibal tribes and see if they can find and eat one with the natives.


Here are some more references, I give the author date citations but so not have time to get the references from my bibliography

BOLETUS SPECIES (KUMA):
Corner, 1972; Stijve, 1997a.
Boletus flammeus: Heim, 1965b; Heim,1972; Heim & Wasson, 1965; Singer, 1978b.
Boletus kumeus: Heim, 1965b; Heim, 1972; Heim & Wasson, 1965; Singer, 1978.
Boleteus manicus: Heim, 1965b; Heim, 1972; Heim & Wasson, 1965; Singer, 1978.
Boletus nigerrimus (Heim, 1965b; Heim, 1972; Heim & Wasson, 1965; Singer, 1978).
Boletus nigroviolaceus: Heim, 1965b; Heim, 1972; Heim & Wasson, 1965; Singer, 1978.
Boletus raeyi: Heim, 1965b; Heim, 1972; Heim & Wasson, 1965; Singer, 1978.

HEIMIELLA SPECIES (KUMA):
Heimiella angrieformis(=syn.Boletellus anguiformis): Heim, 1963; Heim, 1967a; Heim, 1967b; Heim, 1967c; Heim, 1967d; Heim & Wasson, 1958; Ott, 1993; Schultes & Hofmann, 1979; Singer, 1978b.
Heimiella retispora: Heim, 1963; Heim, 1967; Heim & Wasson, 1958; Schultes & Hofmann, 1979.

RUSSULA SPECIES (KUMA):
Russula agglutinata (Heim, 1963c; Heim, 1967; Heim & Wasson, 1958; Heim & Wasson, 1964; Heim & Wasson, 1965; Ott, 1993b; Schultes & Hofmann, 1979).
Russula kirinia (Heim, 1963c; Heim, 1967; Heim & Wasson, 1958; Heim & Wasson, 1964; Heim & Wasson, 1965; Ott, 1993b; Schultes & Hofmann, 1979).
Russula maenadum (Heim, 1963c; Heim, 1967; Heim & Wasson, 1958; Heim & Wasson, 1964; Heim & Wasson, 1965; Ott, 1993b; Schultes & Hofmann, 1979).
Russula nondorbingi (Heim, 1963c; Heim, 1967; Heim & Wasson, 1958; Heim & Wasson, 1964; Heim & Wasson, 1965; Ott, 1993b; Schultes & Hofmann, 1979).
Russula pseudomaendum: (Heim, 1963c; Heim, 1967; Heim & Wasson, 1958; Heim & Wasson, 1964; Heim & Wasson, 1965; Ott, 1993b; Schultes & Hofmann, 1979).
Russula wahgiensis (Heim, 1963c; Heim, 1967; Heim & Wasson, 1958; Heim & Wasson, 1964; Heim & Wasson, 1965; Ott, 1993b; Schultes & Hofmann, 1979).


For those of you with access to a university library I am sure you wil find the writings of Heim and Wasson very Intriguing. Most other authors only cited the writings of Heim and Hofmann as their source of information.

The Harvard botanical Museum Leaflets had a few good articles on this subject.

mj


btw, a nice article. The author sent it to me a few years ago. I also posted here last year two papers on New Guinea magic shrooms of the psilocybian kind.

They are posted here somewhere.
mj


Edited by mjshroomer (08/17/04 11:25 AM)


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Boletus Manicus Heim - very potent mushroom [Re: Hermes_br]
    #3012462 - 08/17/04 10:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Hofmann, the Swiss chemist who discovered d-lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), detected trace amounts of three indolic substances in B. Manicus (Ott 1993: 298 & 422) but "The amounts were too low to allow structural studies" (Hofmann 2001).
Heim has suggested that these indolic substances "could be psychotropic" (Heim 1072: 173)





Heim (bless him :heart:) can suggest many things but if Hofmann in in a 2001 maintains the structure is unknown then many things can be suggested because indolics are as likely to be psychoactive as random colors are likely to be purple.

Indolic compounds are normal ubiquitous components of lifeforms, as they derive from the amino acid Tryptophan. For instance you've got

C8H7N-CH2CH2-OH                  (Tryptophol)
C8H7N-CH2C(=O)-OH                (Auxin, Indole acetic acid)
C8H7N-CH2-N(CH3)2                (Gramine)
C8H7N-CH2CH2-NH2                  (Tryptamine)
C8H7N-CH2CH2-N(CH3)2              (DMT, Dimethyltryptamine)
4-HO-C8H7N-CH2CH2-N(CH3)2        (Psilocin)
5-HO-C8H7N-CH2CH2-N(CH3)2        (Bufotenine)
5-CH3O-C8H7N-CH2CH2-N(CH3)2      (5-MeO-DMT)
5-CH3O-C8H7N-CH2CH2-NH-C(=O)CH3  (Melatonin)
C8H7N-CH3                        (Skatole, poop's stench)

And then there are dazzling numbers of things that incorporate the Indole group in the most crazy ways which all will test positively fopr indolics. The presence of indolics thus says nothing about whether they are the alleged psychoactive components.

That LSD might be the active ingredient is direly unlikely.
It could be argued that the presence of Lysergic Acid Amides are present in Ergot fungus -and- Ipomoea vines and other plants, but I'd say its not, bear with me and apply your own logic.

In the biolab gene transfer between different species can be brought about by certain naturally occurring micro-organisms that can act as intermediaries (verctors)

Where does (Lysergic) Ergot fungus grow? On the seeds of plants (grasses like Rye) And where do plants grow from? Aha!
It is perfectly reasonable in my view that if all sorts of fungus containing Ergoloids evolve and mutate growing on the seeds of plants, that the Lysergic genes from one strain hopped into the seed it grew on (by vector microbe or in another way.. you'd be amazed at what happens every once in a blue moon) and that seed of this clone germinated yielding a now "poisonous" plant which thushad increased chances of survivaland filled the niche.\

But LSD growing on a Boletus... if a hippie grew it on an Ergot-infested rye jar it might happen under yet another blue moon.
Unlikely.


But! I got a far better theory.
Do we know a -mushroom- that is especially known for vivid vivid microscopic hallucinations, auditory hallucinations and is active in small doses?

Yeah! That would be Amanita Muscaria (Fly Agaric) and Amanita Pantherina (Brown Panther)
They contain Ibotenic acid which upon decomposition turns into Muscimole, which at 5-15mg is about 10x more psychoactive and is especially notable for vivid miniature visual hallucinations and auditory hallucinations. It stirs in the pharmacological pot where things like Vitamin B3 (Nicotinic acid, the body -makes- it from Tryptophan!), benzodiazepines and nightshade tropanes dwell.

Note that highly toxic Atropine starts with excitement terminating in a dreamy state with visuals which is so strikingly similar to the likely much safer Ibotenic acid/Muscimole that the latter two were referred to in earlier days as "Pilz-atropin" (Mushroom Atropine).
The anticholinergics and GABA-active molecules are well-known for compounds that are potently active below a single miligram into the microgram range of LSD and analysis-resistant stuff.

When there are miligrams to a gram the old-fashioned test-tube chemistry Hofmann used so well on Ergot, Mushrooms and Ipomoea in the olden days you had a fair shot at finding it with solvents, test tubes and reagents. If there are 1.000 times smaller amounts present it really is a job for modern tech equipment.

The direly unrelated Oyster Mushroom (the yum-yum gourmet mushroom Pleurotus ostreatus) contains Tricholomic acid, which is likely undesirable but consists of dihydro-Ibotenic acid which means the closest relative of Ibotenic Acid is found in a completely different kind of mushroom, and Ibotenic acid and Muscimol are well knowd for effecting exactly the -typical- kinds of visionary activity described.

So my take on things is that it might be a psychoactivity of the Muscimol sort, perhaps in the enigmatic indoles or in a molecule more structurally related to the psychoactives in the Fly Agaric and the Brown Panther, and the fly-killing molecular cousin in Oyster mushrooms.

We're a large community with ethnobotanic interest. It'd be great if some bright biology hippie who got so stoned he wandered off the hippie trail brought back some sporeprints and mushrooms from his Papua New Guinea vacation for cultivation and some university chem kid could run the cultured mushrooms through the nifty high tech analytical equipment that just catches dust there.

Check spectrums, look for known and odd molecules, run the odd ones through a "Folding" like program that looks for structural analogs of known pharmalogically active substances and we all are winners.

The Bio & Chem guys can hit a bong together put out a scientific paper immortalizing their names and perhaps we gain a new KIND of psychedelic mushroom that can be grown and is uniquely active.

Suppose it is a pure Muscimol-type psychoactive of agreeable pharmacology.. (unlike nightshades which are dangerous poisons well below the "entheogenic" dose) The problem with Fly Agarics and Brown Panthers is that you cant grow them indoors. You need to take prints from the wild, run them through a blender with alot of water, sprinkle this water around birch trees and -hope- to be lucky.
This is because of symbiosis.

This (unrelated) mushroom might (like most mushrooms) not need this symbiosis and thus may perhaps be cultivated on grain or straw like our blue-ing friends.

Quote:

"the appearance of several luminous, fleeting visions during the course of a dream"


  That doesnt sound like Psilocybe, but to me it sounds like a pretty desirable state to be in, and this on less then 0.6gr fresh.. If thats a genuine reaction then thats ten trippers exploring on a smoothie of say a 6 gram mushroom :eek:
If it is as good as its made to sound its possibly yet another Entheogenic revolution in the coming!
I must say this more "visionary" dreamlike pattern holds great appeal to my shaman spirituality.


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Re: Boletus Manicus Heim - very potent mushroom [Re: Asante]
    #3013919 - 08/17/04 03:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That is a good post but allow me to correct you...

Where does (Lysergic) Ergot fungus grow? On the seeds of plants (grasses like Rye)..

nope, only unfertilized ovaries are colonized by ergot spores, therefore ergot reduces grain yield because infected flowers do not produce grain.
the resistance to ergot infection develops after fertilization of the flowers.

I find it very unlikely that mr. Hofmann have missed to consider the possible presence of ibotenic acid/muscimol in these Boletus...

MJ, thanks for the references...

Bluemeanie, I?m too far away from Papua but would bioassay them.


Edited by Hermes_br (08/17/04 04:08 PM)


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Re: Boletus Manicus Heim - very potent mushroom [Re: Hermes_br]
    #3031537 - 08/21/04 05:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Papua New Guinea is the closest nation to Australia.


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Have: Agaricus bitorquis; Lepista saeva; Lepista nuda; SRA; Pioppino; Agaricus 'marzipan'

Looking for: Agaricus augustus, more SRAs and Torqs.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Psychedelic Experience

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