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 Legoulash
Stranger
Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 4,347
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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 Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Gr0wer]
#2561722 - 04/14/04 10:24 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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since when did we let the law get in our way.?
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 Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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 Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Joshua]
#2562702 - 04/15/04 07:03 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Joshua said:
So basically this thread is based on hype?
The link you provided says only that caffeine induces sclerotia formation.
Joshua
i don't think it's fair to characterize this thread like that.
i think if one reads the early posts
one can clearly see that what was asked for
was experimentation to see what the effects were,
no hype trying to sell coffee.
i also don't think it's reasonable to expect anyone to be able to pull some scientifically valid study off the shelf
for something that is new and experimental.
the fact that caffeine did stimulate sclerotia
was in itself interesting enough
to warrant further study on other species,
that's not hype, that's what science is all about,
asking questions, looking for answers.
sometimes the answers aren't always what we'd like,
but that doesn't mean the effort was in vain.
similar with this coffee thread.
even if it turns out that coffee does not help,
we will have at least learned that much.
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Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia
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Joshua
Holoman
Registered: 10/27/98
Posts: 5,380
Loc: The Matrix
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 Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
#2563337 - 04/15/04 10:46 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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That was a bit harsh I suppose. I'm just suprised to see no side by side evaluations of coffee v no coffee. It seems this would be the first test one would set-up.
I think usually sclerotia formation would be in response to negative environmental stimulation such as the withdrawal of nutrients, unfavorable temperatures, and other stress, since the purpose of sclerotia is to carry the fungi through periods of such.
All in all it was the lack of a basic experiment to test the given hypotheses after two and a half months that lead me to question the thread. Some things take time though, I will chill and wait to see what comes of this thread.
Joshua
--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore
Great books for inquiring minds!
"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"
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TeknoJunkie
Pioneer
Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 38
Loc: The Mountains
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
#2563800 - 04/15/04 12:26 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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www.compostingcouncil.org
might have some info regarding how good coffee is for your garden.
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Joshua]
#2569214 - 04/16/04 06:43 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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re:
"I'm just suprised to see no side by side evaluations of coffee v no coffee."
there are a number of reasons.
foremost
everyone already knows what
'no coffee' looks like.
there have been side-by-side experiments done,
but only spectacular results tend to get posted,
everyone seems to keep quiet about their failures.
to be perfectly honest
i'm beginning to have my doubts that coffee triggers
anything one could consider phenomenal.
or, if it does,
then it seems that the range of conditions
under which the effects are manifest
is rather narrow.
that is,
while rodger still seems able to get great results
with many others the results have been more mixed.
my own experiments have no shown anything remarkable,
but there are many possible factors in play.
this is not going to be quick and easy
to finally pin down
and determine exactly what must be done
to get reliable results.
i have some pharm grade caffeine en route
and soon plan to start further test using it.
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Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia
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Joshua
Holoman
Registered: 10/27/98
Posts: 5,380
Loc: The Matrix
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Hippie3]
#2569589 - 04/16/04 08:24 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
"I'm just suprised to see no side by side evaluations of coffee v no coffee."
there are a number of reasons.
foremost
everyone already knows what
'no coffee' looks like.
This is the difference between science and novelty I suppose. As soon as I get a chance I will run my own experiments to post in this thread. I appreciate your honesty.
Joshua
--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore
Great books for inquiring minds!
"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 37,009
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 2 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Joshua]
#2570429 - 04/17/04 06:20 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have no intention of going back to 'no coffee' just to prove a point. I also think it's unfair to criticize someone for sharing information which can be helpful to all because it's not in the 'format' one would like to see. There is lots of room in this hobby for new information and knowlege. As for sclerotia formation, some of those old myths may also need to be done away with. I'm beginning to think sclerotia forms, not due to invironmental or food issues, but to genetics. This picture was taken two weeks after inoculation with spores onto MEA, and the plates aren't even grown out yet.
Sclerotia is clearly forming on all three plates, with the one on the left generating the most sclerotia. That is the plate that was selected to inoculate grain. In three weeks, the grain was colonized and lots of sclerotia visible in the jar.
http://www.mycotopia.net/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=2&post=193558#POST193558
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www.mushroomvideos.com
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
Edited by RogerRabbit (04/17/04 06:22 AM)
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sakura
Aussie Expat
Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 592
Loc: Japan
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While I certainly don't have the experience (or the intelligence  ) to offer a balanced, scientific growth evaluation to this thread... I do have some coffee and some liquid myc 
I innoculated 3 1 litre jars simultaneously with GT mycelium 2 days ago(white rice with verm and 2.5cc of liquid myc for each jar). One jar contains spent coffee grounds in addition to the substrate mix.
I have used heat resistant plastic containers (so it's difficult to get a photo of what's going on in there) and wanted to experiment with white rice as I plan to start with some stones (both MexA and Tamp) in the very near future.
There is slightly more myc growth in the coffee jar at this stage... I will keep you up to date as to what happens with them and will try to provide some photos after I case them to evaluate what, if anything, is different with the pinning process.
I realise that 3 jars in no way makes a scientific 'side by side' analysis However, even 'anecdotal' evidence adds up after a while.
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Shrooms aren't everyone's cup of tea... (Some folks just eat 'em)
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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re:
"As for sclerotia formation, some of those old myths may also need to be done away with. I'm beginning to think sclerotia forms, not due to invironmental or food issues, but to genetics."
no doubt but that you can 'select' for it.
i think that selection also explains a great deal
of why you got such spectacular invitro pinning.
the genetics you carefully select
out-perform by far the random multispore inoculations
that most people use.
re:" even 'anecdotal' evidence adds up after a while."
that's how i see it, too.
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Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia
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Joshua
Holoman
Registered: 10/27/98
Posts: 5,380
Loc: The Matrix
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Sounds like a careful dance you have going there. Obviously a side by side comparison can't be very hard. Obviously you are capable, so why not perform an experiment? I can't tell that the mex A you had in those petris would not have performed equally well on a non-coffee petri. Perhaps you have an excellent strain.
I'm just offering what I hope is constructive criticism about methods employed thus far to to try to back up the given hypothesis.
Heck, as soon as I am able...a coffee experiment of my own will be posted. I understand it takes time for things to evolve, I hope that my words offer encouragement for someone to approach this topic more scientifically.
Good luck to all!!!
Joshua
--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore
Great books for inquiring minds!
"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"
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OJK
Stranger
Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 10,629
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Joshua]
#2570705 - 04/17/04 09:46 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I hope this hasn't already been covered; I'm planning on experimenting with mexicana A and coffee, but have a rather stupid question:
Is the nutrient make-up of instant coffee significantly different from that of filter coffee? Should greater/weaker concentrations be used?
I just don't want to waste time, and only have access to instant coffee.
Thank's all.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 37,009
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 2 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: OJK]
#2573450 - 04/18/04 08:29 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I worked in an instant coffee plant once, and saw the process it's made with. They essentially brew up a huge pot of coffee, then freeze dry it. I see no reason why instant coffee wouldn't work. Just mix it at half strength. Full strength coffee actually seems to slow things down.
I agree hip, the strain selection is an important part of our hobby, and undoubtedly influences the results.
The agar dish above is MEA with no coffee. I haven't been brave enough yet to try coffee in agar.
One experiment that really turned me around on coffee was from six months or so ago. I did up a load(ten quarts) of popcorn with coffee, and ten quarts of popcorn not soaked in coffee. All twenty quarts were inoculated with the same isolate. The coffee jars pinned invitro and completely filled the sides of the jars with fruit. The non coffee popcorn jars produced at most one or two fruits per jar. Unfortunately, I was only interested in the 'success story' and didn't bother to photograph the non coffee jars to show the difference. My bad. This was also about the time I first announced the results of the coffee tests.
Joshua,
If you'll mix up a batch of jars and use weak coffee in half of them, and plain water in the other half, then inoculate each jar with the same isolate at the same quantity per jar, you'll see the difference. It won't give five times the speed or five times the fruits, but I think you'll safely see colonization in 25% less time, and faster pinsets. That's actually a fairly substantial advantage, in my opinion.
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www.mushroomvideos.com
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
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Gr0wer
cultivator &mycologist
Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 2,423
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Rohypnol]
#2575538 - 04/18/04 08:07 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I know joshua saw this but you guys should check out my attempt, and plans. I should have results in about 2-3 weeks and solid results in about a month after i repeat the experiment. I plan to test the effects of coffee and of caffine pills by measuring growth down test tubes filled with grain.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...;o=&fpart=1
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NoG
journeyman
Registered: 04/15/04
Posts: 98
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: Gr0wer]
#2575794 - 04/18/04 09:11 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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You can buy pure powder caffeine from:
http://www.wellcoolstuff.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=1&Category_Code=PC
pure caffeine would be better than crushing pills because theres obviously other things in there to keep the pill together. Which could cause negative or positive effects which arent related to the actual caffeine which would give you useless results.
Later NoG
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 37,009
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 2 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: NoG]
#2577504 - 04/19/04 10:14 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm still curious, considering the hundreds of elements in coffee, why folks seem to be fixating on the caffeine, which is the main reason humans drink it. I doubt it's the caffeine which makes molds start growing on a cup of coffee after only a couple of days sitting out. I'm not saying it isn't the caffeine, just trying to keep everyone's mind open.
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www.mushroomvideos.com
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
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Gr0wer
cultivator &mycologist
Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 2,423
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Thanks nog!
Well testing is the only way to find out now, isnt it? I realised from the start that ther are lots of acids and whatnot in coffee. And first off.. all we dont even know if coffee even increases growth!
Edited by Gr0wer (04/19/04 12:47 PM)
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: 
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
I'm still curious, considering the hundreds of elements in coffee, why folks seem to be fixating on the caffeine, which is the main reason humans drink it. I doubt it's the caffeine which makes molds start growing on a cup of coffee after only a couple of days sitting out. I'm not saying it isn't the caffeine, just trying to keep everyone's mind open.
That is what I have been thinking. The shrooms may not be using the caffeine, but some other chemical in the coffee.
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Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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TeknoJunkie
Pioneer
Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 38
Loc: The Mountains
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: The Coffee Project [Re: niteowl]
#2580541 - 04/19/04 10:01 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Coffee has high nitrogen levels and has been used in gardening for ages. That's what might boost their growth...
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spacemonster
i've evaporated
Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 268
Loc: the comfy chair
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I know I'm pretty new here, and the last thing I want is to sound condescending. I just think someone might try decaffeinated coffee to offer results supporting the other possible nutrition benefits besides caffeine. You don't have to drink the stuff (ew.. decaf) just try feeding it to your mushrooms.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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That is a very good idea.
I have a trial using coffee in the PF tek. When these jars are done I will start another trial with decaf vs reg coffee.
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Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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