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qman said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

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qman said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Which tweet of his do you believe has the least amount of commonsense?

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Germany got caught off guard and it basically turned into a shit fest, to say they did anything different is very disingenuous. The German public is not happy with it at all.

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Please tell us more about this "shitfest". 

I believe it's you that's being disingenuous by referring to German neo Nazis as the "German public".

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If your trying to convince me that 800,000 "refugees" flooding into Germany has public support don't waste your time, basic commonsense tells us that isn't the case.

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qman said:
If your trying to convince me that 800,000 "refugees" flooding into Germany has public support don't waste your time, basic commonsense tells us that isn't the case.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

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qman said:
If your trying to convince me that 800,000 "refugees" flooding into Germany has public support don't waste your time, basic commonsense tells us that isn't the case.

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It may be commonsense to a bigot, but not to the public at large.  Here is a survey of German opinion:

How Germans feel about the surge of refugees

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

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qman said:
If your trying to convince me that 800,000 "refugees" flooding into Germany has public support don't waste your time, basic commonsense tells us that isn't the case.

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It may be commonsense to a bigot, but not to the public at large.  Here is a survey of German opinion:

How Germans feel about the surge of refugees

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qman said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/angela-merkel/11919548/Angela-Merkel-attacks-east-European-leaders-for-ignoring-their-past-over-refugees.html

"but opposition to Merkel's refugee policy is growing in Germany, and her personal approval ratings have fallen to their lowest levels in four years"

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/world/europe/merkel-while-refusing-to-halt-migrant-influx-works-to-limit-it.html?_r=0

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Tipote said:
i think this video is quite interesting...

its relevant to what we are talking about.

you might say - look! they have israeli flags - they aren't nazis. Well the Israel government act like nazis and i'm sure its just a support for those killing Muslims. Israel is profiting from this PR move, exploiting Paris, trying to brand itself as a consultant on this problem and how to deal with it...... yeh that doesn't bode too well.

also another point from the article is that Turkey is purposely sending people into Europe. It is a bargaining chip because they want to put for EU membership. Almost all of Europe hate Erdogan and his government but this is how he wants to play politics.

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qman said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/angela-merkel/11919548/Angela-Merkel-attacks-east-European-leaders-for-ignoring-their-past-over-refugees.html

"but opposition to Merkel's refugee policy is growing in Germany, and her personal approval ratings have fallen to their lowest levels in four years"

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/world/europe/merkel-while-refusing-to-halt-migrant-influx-works-to-limit-it.html?_r=0

"Merkel has found herself increasingly isolated in Europe and markedly less popular at home"

"Merkel has also shifted on the refugee issue...she is changing the very liberal and non-conditional stance that she took"

It's not the fairy tale you all think it is, tensions are high for everyone.

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qman said:
Just a very small sample survey with an agenda.

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You think trying to gauge how Germans really feel is "an agenda"? 

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qman said:
Let me ask you, since when are people highly charitable to foreigners invading their country?  What's in it for them other than that warm fuzzy feeling for a few moments.

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That's like asking why anyone should have tried to save the Jews from the holocaust. 

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qman said:
Trying to maintain the sovereignty of one's homeland makes them a bigot?  These people aren't bigots or Nazi's, they are the general public.

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qman said:
The German public is not happy with this policy and that in itself will have very serious ramifications, do you want to see a bloodbath down the road?

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qman said:

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Tipote said:
i think this video is quite interesting...

its relevant to what we are talking about.

you might say - look! they have israeli flags - they aren't nazis. Well the Israel government act like nazis and i'm sure its just a support for those killing Muslims. Israel is profiting from this PR move, exploiting Paris, trying to brand itself as a consultant on this problem and how to deal with it...... yeh that doesn't bode too well.

also another point from the article is that Turkey is purposely sending people into Europe. It is a bargaining chip because they want to put for EU membership. Almost all of Europe hate Erdogan and his government but this is how he wants to play politics.

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That was a decent video which shows the present challenges of getting flooded with these people, but what about 5 years from now, what are they going to be doing in Germany?  This is a problem with no solution, at least if they were from Eastern Europe we would see them assimilate, that's not going to happen in this scenario.

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Tipote said:

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qman said:

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Tipote said:
i think this video is quite interesting...

its relevant to what we are talking about.

you might say - look! they have israeli flags - they aren't nazis. Well the Israel government act like nazis and i'm sure its just a support for those killing Muslims. Israel is profiting from this PR move, exploiting Paris, trying to brand itself as a consultant on this problem and how to deal with it...... yeh that doesn't bode too well.

also another point from the article is that Turkey is purposely sending people into Europe. It is a bargaining chip because they want to put for EU membership. Almost all of Europe hate Erdogan and his government but this is how he wants to play politics.

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That was a decent video which shows the present challenges of getting flooded with these people, but what about 5 years from now, what are they going to be doing in Germany?  This is a problem with no solution, at least if they were from Eastern Europe we would see them assimilate, that's not going to happen in this scenario.

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yes, everyone is in agreement is it a challenge! But its the right thing to do, just because its difficult doesnt mean it should be done. Germany said openly for them to come. Germany has a shrinking population and without immigration, would not have enough workers to support the social security system.

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The massive influx of foreigners creates immense challenges for society. Many local authorities are overwhelmed, and refugee hostels, temporary housing and tent cities are overcrowded. The social welfare system and government budgets are faced with billions in additional costs.

A Silver Lining for Germany?

But the influx also provides opportunities for the German economy. Despite the official unemployment figure of almost 2.8 million, the business community urgently needs workers. And every refugee or migrant who finds work becomes less of a drain on the public coffers. The German economy is dependent on immigration, both from Europe as well as people entering the country due to asylum rights in Germany. With the German population shrinking, businesses are unable to fill many jobs, and specialized workers are increasingly rare. This trend will only be exacerbated in the coming years. It's a development that jeopardizes the country's future prosperity.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/refugees-are-an-opportunity-for-the-german-economy-a-1050102.html

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qman said:
You can continue to say how wonderful it is that Germany allowed this nonsense to happen, but it doesn't have a happy ending. The German public is not happy with this policy and that in itself will have very serious ramifications, do you want to see a bloodbath down the road?

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What do you mean? Why doesnt it have a happy ending? We've already discussed German opinion on this policy, yes it is divided but it is the majority that support this and it is needed with a shrinking and aging population. Do i want to see a blood bath? No... i think thats a little extreme. Violence would only come from fascists, are you saying we should accommodate this thinking?

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"and without immigration, would not have enough workers to support the social security system"

  Wow, you bought into that nonsense as well, PLEASE explain to the board why Germany would ever need a bunch of refugees from a foreign land with no skills, education, or language to support the Germany economy in the years ahead?   Is this some type of joke of something?

The EU has a massive surplus of workers relative to jobs and the trend is just getting worse with greater globalization and productivity gains, they don't need more unskilled workers, they need LESS.

Do you know why Germany has one of the best economies in the world?  Because of German people!!!  If we follow your delusion line of reasoning, why doesn't Japan import a couple million people from Africa to "stimulate" its economy? Because it wouldn't work, it would only cause more harm than good.

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airclay said:
what sort of bloodbath do imagine will happen when they start detaining and deporting refugees around instead of settling them?

I find your outlook on immigrants or refugees wholly nationalistic.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

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qman said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/angela-merkel/11919548/Angela-Merkel-attacks-east-European-leaders-for-ignoring-their-past-over-refugees.html

"but opposition to Merkel's refugee policy is growing in Germany, and her personal approval ratings have fallen to their lowest levels in four years"

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/world/europe/merkel-while-refusing-to-halt-migrant-influx-works-to-limit-it.html?_r=0

"Merkel has found herself increasingly isolated in Europe and markedly less popular at home"

"Merkel has also shifted on the refugee issue...she is changing the very liberal and non-conditional stance that she took"

It's not the fairy tale you all think it is, tensions are high for everyone.

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No one claimed there is no opposition in Germany.  Every country is filled with bigotry.  I posted a survey that shows how Germans feel about the refugees.

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qman said:
Just a very small sample survey with an agenda.

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You think trying to gauge how Germans really feel is "an agenda"? 

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qman said:
Let me ask you, since when are people highly charitable to foreigners invading their country?  What's in it for them other than that warm fuzzy feeling for a few moments.

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That's like asking why anyone should have tried to save the Jews from the holocaust. 

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qman said:
Trying to maintain the sovereignty of one's homeland makes them a bigot?  These people aren't bigots or Nazi's, they are the general public.

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They are the bigots in the general public, who are against freedom of religion.  Being anti-Muslim is far different from being anti-Sharia Law.  Most Muslims practice their faith just fine in the US and Europe.

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qman said:
The German public is not happy with this policy and that in itself will have very serious ramifications, do you want to see a bloodbath down the road?

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Be careful saying "The German Public" when you really mean "The German Bigots".  Again, I've posted how Germans feel, and the majority are ok with immigration, provided they don't try to take away the existing German culture (which very few refugees want to do).

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Tipote said:
ah looks like airclay and falcon got there before me!

i think qman doesnt like it whatever we say. its all a liberal agenda! maybe, just maybe, qman you are in that minority who just can't handle it.

Why is that?

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qman said:

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airclay said:
what sort of bloodbath do imagine will happen when they start detaining and deporting refugees around instead of settling them?

I find your outlook on immigrants or refugees wholly nationalistic.

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The German people are entitled to be nationalistic, they have earned it.  I say deport them now before something bad happens in the future.

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qman said:

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Tipote said:
ah looks like airclay and falcon got there before me!

i think qman doesnt like it whatever we say. its all a liberal agenda! maybe, just maybe, qman you are in that minority who just can't handle it.

Why is that?

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I believe your point of view is the minority in Germany, the German people didn't ask for this, the people in power pushed for this unpopular policy and they may pay for it down the road.

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qman said:
"and without immigration, would not have enough workers to support the social security system"

  Wow, you bought into that nonsense as well, PLEASE explain to the board why Germany would ever need a bunch of refugees from a foreign land with no skills, education, or language to support the Germany economy in the years ahead?   Is this some type of joke of something?

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Syrians are different from other refugees in that they are far more likely to come from professional backgrounds than refugees originating in African countries like Eritrea, for instance, according to migration experts.

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qman said:
Do you know why Germany has one of the best economies in the world?  Because of German people!!!

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HEIL HITLER! 

Actually, Germany has always had a very open immigration policy, and nearly 1 in 8 people in Germany are immigrants. 

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qman said:
The German people are entitled to be nationalistic, they have earned it.  I say deport them now before something bad happens in the future.

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qman said:
You posted a survey with a 1000 people.

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qman said:
I believe your point of view is the minority in Germany, the German people didn't ask for this, the people in power pushed for this unpopular policy and they may pay for it down the road.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

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qman said:
"and without immigration, would not have enough workers to support the social security system"

  Wow, you bought into that nonsense as well, PLEASE explain to the board why Germany would ever need a bunch of refugees from a foreign land with no skills, education, or language to support the Germany economy in the years ahead?   Is this some type of joke of something?

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What makes you believe these refugees have no skills, education, or language other than your own bigotry?  Syria was a relatively modern middle eastern country before the civil war.

Wealthy, Educated Syrians Risking Lives To Leave War

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Syrians are different from other refugees in that they are far more likely to come from professional backgrounds than refugees originating in African countries like Eritrea, for instance, according to migration experts.

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qman said:
Do you know why Germany has one of the best economies in the world?  Because of German people!!!

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HEIL HITLER! 

Actually, Germany has always had a very open immigration policy, and nearly 1 in 8 people in Germany are immigrants. 

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qman said:
The German people are entitled to be nationalistic, they have earned it.  I say deport them now before something bad happens in the future.

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qman said:
You posted a survey with a 1000 people.

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I guess you're not very familiar with statistics.  You don't need to survey the entire population to estimate how that population feels about something.  1000 people will give you very statistically accurate results.

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qman said:
I believe your point of view is the minority in Germany, the German people didn't ask for this, the people in power pushed for this unpopular policy and they may pay for it down the road.

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See survery.

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