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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: thoughts/opinions/ramblings on Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel [Re: Tipote]
    #22567496 - 11/24/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:
haha Fal says "conservative" and hostileuniverse's ears tweek maybe even while away from his computer. to him the world is just conservative or liberal.




The world is not as complex as liberals like to believe. The easiest solution to many problems is usually the right one. Do smart people make things simpler to understand or more complicated? Govt doesn't fix things, it just makes them more complicated, which leads to problems, that's why the tax code is 78,000 pages, it's ridiculous


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: thoughts/opinions/ramblings on Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22567806 - 11/24/15 12:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
You think our standard of living was better before Reagan than it is now?






Our standard of living stopped going up with Reagan.  At least for the 90%.  The rich have done well since Reagan.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFloyd70
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Re: thoughts/opinions/ramblings on Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel [Re: Tipote] * 1
    #22568152 - 11/24/15 01:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

non violent actions like these are a natural growth which will spread like mycelium..and when conditions are right propogate endlessly..


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If a state political organization is founded in part upon a state religion with a dogma based on one or a few 'official' prophets, then shamanism, where every shaman is her or his own prophet, is dangerous to the state. [...] Shamanism, as I said, is not a religion. The spiritual experience usually becomes a religion after politics has entered into it.

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OfflineTipote
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Re: thoughts/opinions/ramblings on Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel [Re: Floyd70]
    #22568524 - 11/24/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Floyd70 said:
non violent actions like these are a natural growth which will spread like mycelium..and when conditions are right propogate endlessly..




nice analogy!:fonz:


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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OfflineTipote
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Re: thoughts/opinions/ramblings on Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel [Re: Tipote]
    #22571947 - 11/25/15 09:11 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Israel Grants First Golan Heights Oil Drilling License To Dick Cheney-Linked Company

Israel has granted a U.S. company the first license to explore for oil and gas in the occupied Golan Heights, John Reed of the Financial Times reports.

A local subsidiary of the New York-listed company Genie Energy — which is advised by former vice president Dick Cheney and whose shareholders include Jacob Rothschild and Rupert Murdoch — will now have exclusive rights to a 153-square mile radius in the southern part of the Golan Heights.

That geographic location will likely prove controversial. Israel seized the Golan Heights in the Six-Day War in 1967 and annexed the territory in 1981. Its administration of the area — which is not recognized by international law — has been mostly peaceful until the Syrian civil war broke out 23 months ago.

"This action is mostly political – it’s an attempt to deepen Israeli commitment to the occupied Golan Heights," Israeli political analyst Yaron Ezrahi told FT. "The timing is directly related to the fact that the Syrian government is dealing with violence and chaos and is not free to deal with this problem.”

golan heights
Wikimedia Commons
There are about 20,000 Israeli settlers in the Golan Heights.

Earlier this month we reported that Israel is considering creating a buffer zone reaching up to 10 miles from Golan into Syria to secure the 47-mile border against the threat of Islamic radicals in the area.

The move would overtake the UN Disengagement Observer Force Zone that was established in 1973 to end the Yom Kippur War and to provide a buffer zone between the two countries.

Reed notes that recent natural gas finds off Israel’s coast in the Mediterranean have made the country's offshore gas reserve one of the largest of its kind in the world, meaning Israel may become a significant energy exporter in its region.


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i would predict this will not be the only expansion into syria by israel.


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InvisibleAstral Pain
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Re: thoughts/opinions/ramblings on Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel [Re: Tipote]
    #22572212 - 11/25/15 10:16 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The article you posted is nearly three years old, but it reminded me of something I posted a month back about a a massive oil discovery in Golan Heights. Dick Cheney hit the jackpot here.
Syrian Pipeline Wars 

Huge oil discovery in Golan Heights - Israeli media

https://www.rt.com/business/317906-oil-golan-heights-israel/

Quote:

A big oil deposit has been found in the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights, with enough reserves to last Israel for decades, according to the country's media.

The Israeli presence in the Golan Heights is in dispute. The region is internationally recognized Syrian territory that has been occupied by Israel since the 1967 Six-Day War between Israel and several Arab states. UN Resolution 242 (1967) demands the withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from the territories occupied in the conflict. Israel disagrees with the wording of the resolution, saying the territories are disputable.




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"I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out"               
                -Bill Hicks-

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OfflineTipote
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Re: thoughts/opinions/ramblings on Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel [Re: Astral Pain]
    #22572411 - 11/25/15 11:04 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Astral Pain said:
The article you posted is nearly three years old, but it reminded me of something I posted a month back about a a massive oil discovery in Golan Heights. Dick Cheney hit the jackpot here.
Syrian Pipeline Wars 

Huge oil discovery in Golan Heights - Israeli media

https://www.rt.com/business/317906-oil-golan-heights-israel/

Quote:

A big oil deposit has been found in the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights, with enough reserves to last Israel for decades, according to the country's media.

The Israeli presence in the Golan Heights is in dispute. The region is internationally recognized Syrian territory that has been occupied by Israel since the 1967 Six-Day War between Israel and several Arab states. UN Resolution 242 (1967) demands the withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from the territories occupied in the conflict. Israel disagrees with the wording of the resolution, saying the territories are disputable.







i dont see why the fact that the article is 3 years old detracts from its relevance. Thanks for putting a newer one, the only difference is it doesnt talk about the people who are associated. The fact that Murdoch is a shareholder for example shows the interests he has in his media bias/slants

the point is, this is a crime under international law. for Israel to take that oil, it is also a crime.

hence.. BDS pressure is needed because the US will let Israel get away anything

i will check out your video a bit later as i'm a bit busy right now, but based only on the title of the video i would agree that there is a big case for the logic of this war being about energy supplies in part.


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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InvisibleAstral Pain
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Re: thoughts/opinions/ramblings on Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel [Re: Tipote] * 1
    #22572707 - 11/25/15 11:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I don't see how a three year old article take away from it either, be easy on yourself. This proxy war that is going on is just another chess match for control of pipelines, and putting a puppet in place of Assad is the end goal for the U.S. There's too many pieces of this puzzle than I care to post right now, but things are getting really interesting with the recent shoot down of that Russian fighter.


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"I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out"               
                -Bill Hicks-

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OfflineTipote
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Re: thoughts/opinions/ramblings on Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel [Re: Astral Pain]
    #22573584 - 11/25/15 02:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Astral Pain said:
I don't see how a three year old article take away from it either, be easy on yourself. This proxy war that is going on is just another chess match for control of pipelines, and putting a puppet in place of Assad is the end goal for the U.S. There's too many pieces of this puzzle than I care to post right now, but things are getting really interesting with the recent shoot down of that Russian fighter.




haha ok.. you were the one pointing out the 3 years but nevermind..

i would be interested to hear your analysis on these pieces of the puzzle when/if you are so inclined.


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OfflineTipote
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Re: thoughts/opinions/ramblings on Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel [Re: Astral Pain]
    #22573694 - 11/25/15 03:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

in response to the video - yeh some plausible points. unless i missed it in the video, there was also a proposed qatar - turkey pipeline through syria.

the destruction of syria and the end of the sykes-picot agreement means israel will grab what it can, they never pay attention to law. so we go back to my argument about supporting BDS. It's not the silver bullet but the momentum is building against israel.


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OfflineTipote
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Re: thoughts/opinions/ramblings on Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel [Re: Tipote]
    #22574156 - 11/25/15 04:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
no i didn't say that it was antisemitic if one maintains the law.  I just pointed out Israels point of view.

Let me give you at least a bit of food for thought about why Israel acts the way it does.

I'll start with Russia.  After world war II, Russia became very paranoid and withdrawn from a good part of the western world.  America did not understand, and the cold war escalated.

But the reason Russia was as it was, because they lost 20 million citizens in WWII.  That does something to the psyche of a country, and it was something the US doesn't understand.

The same thing with Israel.  6 Million Jews lost and the ones that survived the holocaust took power, saying the weren't going to take it anymore.

I am not saying it is wrong or right, merely why they behave as they do.





i sincerely hope you watch this video. it is 40 minutes but is incredibly relevant to this..



if you cant be bothered to take in a very important testimony of a soldier from a good family whose grandmother was in Auschwitz...then the point is that those that truely survived the holocaust would detest what is being done in their name. their memory is tarnished and their suffering is used to commit more abuses on another peoples. disgusting.




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InvisibleAstral Pain
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Re: thoughts/opinions/ramblings on Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel [Re: Tipote]
    #22574910 - 11/25/15 07:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

^^^where was that posted? not in this thread^^^


Quote:

Tipote said:
in response to the video - yeh some plausible points. unless i missed it in the video, there was also a proposed qatar - turkey pipeline through syria.

the destruction of syria and the end of the sykes-picot agreement means israel will grab what it can, they never pay attention to law. so we go back to my argument about supporting BDS. It's not the silver bullet but the momentum is building against israel.




The video is as old as your previous article, but I link to a more recent audio clip below that post in that thread that has more about the Golan Heights oil.


--------------------
"I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out"               
                -Bill Hicks-

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OfflineTipote
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Re: thoughts/opinions/ramblings on Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel [Re: Astral Pain]
    #22574998 - 11/25/15 07:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Astral Pain said:
^^^where was that posted? not in this thread^^^




haha that was from here. that thread turned into a israel thread so i moved the video to my thread as i think the video i posted is very relevant.


Quote:

The video is as old as your previous article, but I link to a more recent audio clip below that post in that thread that has more about the Golan Heights oil.




thanks i will check it out tomorrow, gna clock off for now.


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OfflineTipote
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Re: thoughts/opinions/ramblings on Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel [Re: Tipote]
    #22582793 - 11/27/15 03:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

thought this was an interesting article worth sharing... It’s Time for an Israeli Intifada. thoughts are welcome. you may have to register to see the free 10 articles or whatever in order to read this, im not sure.


Quote:

It’s not only the residents of the occupied territories who are imprisoned by the routine of the occupation: Israel has become a state that has itself been besieged by the occupation. Its laws and values now conform to a country under siege, its relations with the world are dictated by the occupation policy and its government is denying its citizens any hope of a diplomatic horizon, and possibly any hope of an economic one as well. “Living by the sword” is the only prognosis offered Israelis, as if there really were no alternative.





i would just add that so along with BDS, supporting the move for moderate Israeli society to come forward to the centre would help in turning the tide.


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OfflineTipote
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Re: thoughts/opinions/ramblings on Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel [Re: Tipote] * 1
    #22591702 - 11/29/15 06:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)



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OfflineTipote
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Re: thoughts/opinions/ramblings on Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel [Re: Tipote]
    #22592701 - 11/29/15 10:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)



chomsky talking in detail about israeli crimes


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Invisibleairclay
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Re: thoughts/opinions/ramblings on Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel [Re: Tipote] * 1
    #22594528 - 11/30/15 12:35 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

but if folks admitted here that punishing populations is morally corrupt and internationally illegal, they'd have to take a good hard look on their stances on muslims, syrian refugees and middle eastern politics in general

oh and probably central/south american refugees too


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Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!

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OfflineTipote
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Re: thoughts/opinions/ramblings on Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel [Re: airclay] * 1
    #22594547 - 11/30/15 12:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

like pulling a thread and unravelling a whole tapestry of bullshit.

strong in them the cognitive dissonance is. (say like yoda)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: thoughts/opinions/ramblings on Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #22596381 - 11/30/15 08:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

usulpsychonaut said:
It's not Israels fault that their manipulations always work. I respect Israel, only wish western nations were half as smart and self interested. As an infidel, it simply makes no sense at all to have sympathy for Palestinians. Their absolute refusal to submit at all ever is admirable, only wish western nations could be half as resolved to defend their own interests. Only wish there was a western nation, rather than Israeli proxy nations. I am more interested in boycotting Halal products.



well i don't agree in their efforts against the Palestinians and i don't agree with their illegal settlement expansions, they are afterall, even in lying, trying to work things to their own self-interest, like every other nation does, again, alot of the time, through lying. fighting fire with fire, they have to do the same thing to not be burned. and they have to aim to not extinguish the 'fire of the lie', which is a sad state that the rest of the world shares as well. people think Israel has no right to be in their own country. other countries exist because they wanted to...and they fought for it...and there no qualms there, historically...but only with the exception of the Jews and Israel. to the rest of the world, they can have their own land, but Israel can't have their own land. well let me tell ya, they fought for it and won.

Palestinian should opt for more strict policy and diplomacy with Israel.

if you think that Israel should be driven out...then go ask ask yourself...would you wanna be driven out of America by Native Indians?

???

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OfflineTipote
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Re: thoughts/opinions/ramblings on Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22596521 - 11/30/15 09:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

usulpsychonaut said:
It's not Israels fault that their manipulations always work. I respect Israel, only wish western nations were half as smart and self interested. As an infidel, it simply makes no sense at all to have sympathy for Palestinians. Their absolute refusal to submit at all ever is admirable, only wish western nations could be half as resolved to defend their own interests. Only wish there was a western nation, rather than Israeli proxy nations. I am more interested in boycotting Halal products.



well i don't agree in their efforts against the Palestinians and i don't agree with their illegal settlement expansions, they are afterall, even in lying, trying to work things to their own self-interest, like every other nation does, again, alot of the time, through lying. fighting fire with fire, they have to do the same thing to not be burned. and they have to aim to not extinguish the 'fire of the lie', which is a sad state that the rest of the world shares as well. people think Israel has no right to be in their own country. other countries exist because they wanted to...and they fought for it...and there no qualms there, historically...but only with the exception of the Jews and Israel. to the rest of the world, they can have their own land, but Israel can't have their own land. well let me tell ya, they fought for it and won.

Palestinian should opt for more strict policy and diplomacy with Israel.

if you think that Israel should be driven out...then go ask ask yourself...would you wanna be driven out of America by Native Indians?

???




Palestine does opt for a strict policy and is trying/has tried diplomacy all along. The Palestinian Authority is a collaborator government and even Hamas has said it would recognise Israel and work for peace. The difference is these power relations are assymetrical and always have been. Israel gets more aid then any other country in the world, much of it military aid (this year $5billion). the PLO under arafat wanted peace and tried very hard. But Israel does not want peace. They killed Arafat, and as a FACT they funded Hamas in the first place to shift their Palestinian opposition to more extreme methods. Its easier to kill or dominate someone that wants to fight you rather than negotiate a fair peace. War means they can get all the land they want.

No, i dont want Americans to be driven out by Native Americans (indians is a lame term) but first of all the government should do more for native americans, many are living in developing world conditions in reserves. Israel uses American history as a vindication or justification for what they are doing.

If you look at the Sykes-Picot Agreement - Palestinians were promised self-determination with the fall of the Ottoman empire, this was betrayed with the conflicting promise to Zionists who wanted a Jewish settler-colonial state. Judaism has been hijacked by Zionism, Israel acts like it speaks on behalf of world jewry but more and more American and British Jews are speaking out against this. What was done in America was wrong - settler colonialism. Efforts should be made to remedy it without going to the extreme of kicking all invaders out. BUT before our eyes, the Zionist Fascists are commiting very similar crimes and nothing is done to stop them. It shows that even the original agreement in 1947 was disingenuous because it was all intended to be taken - that is clear by the fucked up borders that make both states unworkable.

No one is saying - kick all the Jews out. Well maybe some extremists are, just as some Israelis are saying to wipe Gaza off the face of the earth - but in reality this will not happen with a fair peace agreement. Just as in South Africa, the whites were not kicked out. They were asked to stay and help rebuild the country together post Apartheid. The same can be true in Israel/Palestine. Zionist Jews can stay and work with the Palestinians, and Palestinians refugees can return to their homes and live together as they have done in the centuries before the formation of Israel - as dictated from foreign powers, by force.

The fight for demographic control by Zionists is wrong. It didnt happen over 400 years ago, its happening slowly now for over 100 years and it can still be fixed.


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