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OfflineEllis Dee
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Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart * 1
    #22532927 - 11/16/15 02:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.trueactivist.com/big-pharmas-adderall-is-basically-crystal-meth-says-dr-carl-hart

Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart

Health · Most Popular · News

November 13, 2015 by John Vibes


Outspoken drug critic Dr. Carl Hart recently made comments in the media about how the popular big pharma drug Adderall is pretty much crystal meth.



Photo: Wikimedia Commons

Dr. Carl Hart, an associate professor of psychology and psychiatry at Columbia University who specializes in drug abuse and drug addiction, is also an outspoken critic of the drug war, and made comments in the media recently about how the popular big pharma drug Adderall is pretty much the same thing as crystal meth.

When appearing on All In with Chris Hayes on MSNBC, Hart spoke about the crack epidemic and how it allowed the media and the politicians to overlook many of the issues with poverty and violence that existed in poor areas of America’s cities and instead use crack as a scapegoat. Hart admitted that crack is dangerous, but that it has been used as a scapegoat by the government, and like many drugs, there is a lot of misinformation out there about it.

Hart went on to discuss crystal meth and made a statement that would surprise many of the mainstream viewers who were tuned into the show, that it is basically the same thing as Adderall, something that is entirely legal and is prescribed to millions. When Hayes replied back that this couldn’t have been true, Hart mentioned a number of studies where the drugs were actually compared and found to be nearly identical.

One thing that was not discussed in the quick interview was the fact that harsh and highly synthetic street drugs would actually not exist if it were not for prohibition. In environments where drugs are legal, there is no incentive for people to create these dangerous synthetics because pure and safe drugs are available to them at low costs.

This is not a perspective that is encouraging drug use, but rather an understanding that prohibition does not work, and that people are going to use illegal substances one way or another if that is what they want to do. In addition to not working, prohibition also makes life more dangerous for everyone because the drugs are dirtier, and a violent black market develops which impacts the lives of everyone.



John Vibes is an author and researcher who organizes a number of large events including the Free Your Mind Conference.

This article (Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart)  is free and open source. You have permission to republish this article under a Creative Commons license with attribution to the author and TrueActivist.com.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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OfflineLittleDaddy
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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: Ellis Dee] * 1
    #22533045 - 11/16/15 02:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It's quite a stretch to say that street crystal meth is the same.
Though amphetamines are inherently physically dangerous, I bet the impurities associated with the street forms  could account for a large portion of the health hazard.


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OfflineLuSiD enthusiast
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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: LittleDaddy]
    #22533096 - 11/16/15 03:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Idk i never personally messed with uppers but no people who have used meth, and people who used adderall exclusively. Seems like both lead to the same path, just one takes a little longer. Both users seem to end up using then for the same reasons as well sooner or later. Well not every adderall user i guess, just the ones who abuse it.

Moral of the story, drugs are bad, use with caution.


--------------------
I'm addicted to coke, weed, booze, ludes and speed.
Not LSD, you can't get addicted to LSD, it was built by scientists.

I ain't got no demons that gonna get woke.


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Just take your damn pills and don't ask any questions, you'll be fine.

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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: LittleDaddy] * 4
    #22533292 - 11/16/15 03:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LittleDaddy said:
It's quite a stretch to say that street crystal meth is the same.
Though amphetamines are inherently physically dangerous, I bet the impurities associated with the street forms  could account for a large portion of the health hazard.




A lot of the health hazard comes from the fact that the stereotypical meth user smokes huge doses back to back for days to weeks on end while simultaneously neglecting basic nutritional and hygiene needs. That said, when used in the same context and assuming the meth is relatively pure it's not that much of a stretch to say they're extremely similar. I don't think Hart is trying to say "quit your adderall for meth" so much as he's trying to say "let's end the hypocrisy of demonizing a class of drug users while simultaneously shoving a nearly identical drug down the throats of our children". In that context his statement is very real.

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OfflineEverything
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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #22535353 - 11/16/15 10:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Meth is actually a smoother high and less tweaky at doses they prescribe kids compared to adderall.....yes they prescribe kids meth. It's called desoxyn.

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OfflineTrippyTubby
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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: Everything]
    #22535898 - 11/17/15 03:12 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Very shocked that a well respected doctor would say this, as it is quite an unprofessional and overall ignorant statement. Yes, although both crystal methamphetamine and the mixture of amphetamine salts in Adderall are in the stimulant/ amphetamine family, they are QUITE different.
Thats like saying 2C-B-FLY is basically the same thing as Bromo-DragonFLY (3C-Bromo-Dragonfly), although one would very likley kill you if dosed the same as the other. The chemical structures are also eerily similar.
Scary to think that a doctor has a tough time understanding basic chemical analouges.


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-The problem is not to find the answer, it's to face the answer-:mushroom2:

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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: TrippyTubby]
    #22535934 - 11/17/15 03:51 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TrippyTubby said:
Very shocked that a well respected doctor would say this, as it is quite an unprofessional and overall ignorant statement. Yes, although both crystal methamphetamine and the mixture of amphetamine salts in Adderall are in the stimulant/ amphetamine family, they are QUITE different.
Thats like saying 2C-B-FLY is basically the same thing as Bromo-DragonFLY (3C-Bromo-Dragonfly), although one would very likley kill you if dosed the same as the other. The chemical structures are also eerily similar.
Scary to think that a doctor has a tough time understanding basic chemical analouges.




The Dr. may be making the point that prescribing kids speed is a bad idea.

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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: TrippyTubby]
    #22536337 - 11/17/15 07:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TrippyTubby said:
Very shocked that a well respected doctor would say this, as it is quite an unprofessional and overall ignorant statement. Yes, although both crystal methamphetamine and the mixture of amphetamine salts in Adderall are in the stimulant/ amphetamine family, they are QUITE different.
Thats like saying 2C-B-FLY is basically the same thing as Bromo-DragonFLY (3C-Bromo-Dragonfly), although one would very likley kill you if dosed the same as the other. The chemical structures are also eerily similar.
Scary to think that a doctor has a tough time understanding basic chemical analouges.



I haven't touched speed drugs in close to 6 years, basically when I graduated college, but I've done a few. Having personal experience with Adderall and crystal meth I can say that yes they are basically the same. I give a little edge to crystal because it lasts longer. They make you feel exactly the same except that adderall gets your heart going worse if you take too much. Thats because its a mixed salt including l-isomer, which is harder on your body. Meth if taken in similar strength portions is a safer alternative imo. I used to wrap up measured doses of crystal in a piece of paper and take it like a pill, "parachuting it". I was the only person I knew who took it that way.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22536698 - 11/17/15 10:01 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Proof that even educated people have trouble discerning the blurry line between medicine and irresponsible drugging.


crystal meth is a health epidemic fueled by greed.

Adderall isnt even a methylated phenethylamine, it is a proper stimulant preparation conjured by experienced wizards under the hill at Shire Richwood.

he may as well have called oxycodone heroin and then blamed it all on the nigger jews.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: travelleler]
    #22536763 - 11/17/15 10:17 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

At the end of the day if you take 30mg of adderall or 10-15mg of methamphetamine what's ther difference except the methamphetamine lasts a little longer?


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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Offlineclorox
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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: travelleler]
    #22536970 - 11/17/15 11:06 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

travelleler said:
Proof that even educated people have trouble discerning the blurry line between medicine and irresponsible drugging.


crystal meth is a health epidemic fueled by greed.

Adderall isnt even a methylated phenethylamine, it is a proper stimulant preparation conjured by experienced wizards under the hill at Shire Richwood.

he may as well have called oxycodone heroin and then blamed it all on the nigger jews.




Adderall = amphetamine
Amphetamine = alphamethylphenethylamine


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OfflineTrippyTubby
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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: Ellis Dee] * 1
    #22537295 - 11/17/15 12:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
At the end of the day if you take 30mg of adderall or 10-15mg of methamphetamine what's ther difference except the methamphetamine lasts a little longer?




The difference is that the 30mg of Adderall is produced in a state of the art labratory with perfection and is regulated by the FDA. The 10-15mg of methamphetamine is produced by my high school chemisty teacher in the back of a Winnebago in his underpants.


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Invisibletravelleler
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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: clorox]
    #22537718 - 11/17/15 01:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

clorox said:
Quote:

travelleler said:
Proof that even educated people have trouble discerning the blurry line between medicine and irresponsible drugging.


crystal meth is a health epidemic fueled by greed.

Adderall isnt even a methylated phenethylamine, it is a proper stimulant preparation conjured by experienced wizards under the hill at Shire Richwood.

he may as well have called oxycodone heroin and then blamed it all on the nigger jews.




Adderall = amphetamine
Amphetamine = alphamethylphenethylamine





chure dude.  :omgawesome:

but i mean, like,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall (wikipedia)

there ain't no methamphetamine in it. Just other amphetamines, blended in ratios that clearly suggests the alchemists are no simple moonshiners.  Remember the blurry line I mentioned before...  we could argue molecules kinetics and dynamics round and round but that is only a small part of what medicine is. 

there are a few proper uses for the medicine.  I would argue that using it for fatigue elimination is irresponsible... except in some cases


--------------------




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:sun:Dreams are the fuel of the soul:sun:

:peace:

Edited by travelleler (11/17/15 01:54 PM)

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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: travelleler] * 1
    #22539021 - 11/17/15 07:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I did meth pretty fucking hard for about two and a half years. 

It was a huge waste of my life.   

  Did a lot of different types of meth, I've done dirty gross meth, and I've done meth that was stupidly strong and had to be cut or you got too high and thought every one was out to get you after the first day.

That being said, I can identify when people are high on meth pretty well. Having family that still slips up and relapses we often play the "look at me in the eyes if you're not high" game. Real easy to tell when someone is wacked. Pupils are blown, eyes bounce around, involuntary movements, along with a couple other indicators.

So, about two years after I quit, I'm working with this young kid, good kid. His aunt and uncle owned the shop and I trained him from the time he was 15 and he was now 18 or so, we were close, we smoked weed together and shit.  After a while I start noticing his behavior change. I start to notice the high energy/less forethought characteristics that I have come to know so well. He comes into work on top of the world then in about two hours or so he is freaking out for no reason. Little shit is just sending him over the edge (coming down). Then he would go to the bathroom for a couple minutes and come back on top of the world again.

After this went on for a couple days, I waited until he went to the bathroom and talked to him right after he came out.  I was straight up with him, told him to look me in the eye.  Blown,  pupils are huge, eyes are bouncing around, so I ask straight up if he was doing meth.  "No man, just Adderall" he replied. To which I replied "I've seen and done a lot of meth, and from where I am standing you are high on meth, call it Adderall if you want. It's meth" He actually ended up quitting shortly after that, I'm glad he did because it was fucking him up pretty bad and he is a bright kid.

Granted, he was abusing it heavily, but for sake of discussion he was just as fucked up as everyone else I know who is high on meth.


Not to mention the guy I work with right now that is prescribed Aderrall and constantly thought that everyone was conspiring against him (classic meth symptom) and was always fighting with everyone over problems that he was making up in his head. He had no friends as a result. I talked him into quitting about six months ago and he acts a lot more like a normal person again, actually has a couple friends now.



Moral of the story.

Adderall is phizer's watered down version of meth.  Makes me sick.

Edited by srphatness (11/17/15 07:48 PM)

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Offlinethebitterbuffalo26
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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: srphatness]
    #22540390 - 11/18/15 04:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Crystal meth keeps you up for days, adderall only maybe ten hours. Big difference


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: thebitterbuffalo26]
    #22540846 - 11/18/15 08:29 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

thebitterbuffalo26 said:
Crystal meth keeps you up for days, adderall only maybe ten hours. Big difference



It would only keep you up for days if you take it for days. Thats called a binge. People binge on prescription products like adderall too.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: TrippyTubby] * 1
    #22541677 - 11/18/15 12:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TrippyTubby said:
The difference is that the 30mg of Adderall is produced in a state of the art labratory with perfection and is regulated by the FDA. The 10-15mg of methamphetamine is produced by my high school chemisty teacher in the back of a Winnebago in his underpants.




Why would that make a difference? There's a video on YouTube — filmed by Nat Geo — of a DEA agent copying a black market meth synthesis. The agent actually remarks at the end of the video: "This is a very pure batch of meth." Some drugs are simple enough to be made without the need for a state of the art laboraortory. The only advantage such a laboratory may have is faster/cheaper production.


Quote:

travelleler said:
he may as well have called oxycodone heroin




Oxycodone is very similar to heroin. You can search out comparisons made by users of the drugs, if you want. Also, they're both classified as full opioid agonists. Oxycodone is actually much more dangerous than heroin because it can simply be swallowed; heroin, with its poor oral bioavailability cannot be swallowed in reasonable doses. Thus, oxycodone can be used much more freely. Oxycodone is actually one drug that requires advanced equipment to make:

Processing thebaine to other narcotic alkaloids is not something that can be done in a home lab. I have yet to see e.g. clandestine oxycodone production or large scale thefts of catalytic hydrogenation equipment...

27-06-2011 http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/579880-Questions-about-opiate-synthesis?p=9776254&viewfull=1#post9776254

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OfflineAllGreyThumbs
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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: travelleler] * 1
    #22545216 - 11/19/15 04:46 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

travelleler said:
Proof that even educated people have trouble discerning the blurry line between medicine and irresponsible drugging.


crystal meth is a health epidemic fueled by greed.

Adderall isnt even a methylated phenethylamine, it is a proper stimulant preparation conjured by experienced wizards under the hill at Shire Richwood.

he may as well have called oxycodone heroin and then blamed it all on the nigger jews.




Actually, oxycodone does feel pretty dammed similar, and work in much the same way as heroin.  It just doesn't hit quite as fast or last nearly as long.  Still though, it is easily in the same drug class and interchangeable for most abusers and addicts.  Many people switch between drugs like this as supplies change.

I can certainly see the same thing being true for amphetamines.  While us drug nerds can argue the subtle chemical and experiential differences of these things, for all intents and purposes they are both amphetamines and act on the same neurotransmitter systems in similar ways.  One is a little stronger and cleaner, but also more likely to be impure do to clandestine production.  Other than than, both are just amphetamines.


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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: s240779] * 1
    #22550618 - 11/20/15 08:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Quote:

thebitterbuffalo26 said:
Crystal meth keeps you up for days, adderall only maybe ten hours. Big difference



It would only keep you up for days if you take it for days. Thats called a binge. People binge on prescription products like adderall too.




Yup, I can agree with Ellis Dee saldy from my own addiction. Going clean from crystal was the best and hardest challenge I had in my life. Two years of on and off relapse, do yourself a favour and just skip meth and adderall

Quote:

Da2ra said:
Quote:

TrippyTubby said:
The difference is that the 30mg of Adderall is produced in a state of the art labratory with perfection and is regulated by the FDA. The 10-15mg of methamphetamine is produced by my high school chemisty teacher in the back of a Winnebago in his underpants.




Why would that make a difference? There's a video on YouTube — filmed by Nat Geo — of a DEA agent copying a black market meth synthesis. The agent actually remarks at the end of the video: "This is a very pure batch of meth." Some drugs are simple enough to be made without the need for a state of the art laboraortory. The only advantage such a laboratory may have is faster/cheaper production.





That is assuming you are close to the source. Illicit drug trade is not a regulated game, even the most trust worthy dealers will stretch their product when upstream supply is low.


--------------------



“With four hundred milligrams of moksha-medicine in their bloodstreams, even beginners
can catch a glimpse of the world as it looks to someone who has been liberated
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Edited by Jeff Vader (11/20/15 08:51 AM)

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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #22551149 - 11/20/15 11:16 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

All amphetamines can be compared to meth

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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: Connoisseur]
    #22552760 - 11/20/15 06:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

the problem isn't the element.  it's the nature in which it's used that's creating the problem.  People get ahold of these strong stims and dont know how to use them properly or dont have access to the proper sedatives for safe rest each day...

who knows, most of what people attribute to meth could be caused by the behavioral disorder and acccompanying complex caused simply by observer effect.  Lack of emotional support.


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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: travelleler]
    #22602438 - 12/02/15 12:10 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

i can't believe there is even an argument on shroomery about whether meth is basically the same as adderall, since I would imagine a lot of people here have experience both. I was prescribed adderall for 8 years and when i tried meth I was shocked that it wasn't a new experience at all but an all too familiar high. I mean obviously they are different things, thats why we call them different names, but the high is exactly the same.

Our society has basically said  meth a horrible, medically useless drug that must be eradicated while at the same time forcing children to get twacked on adderall all day every day for years at a time.

Carl hart is an awesome for bringing up a great illustration of how arbitrary our drug laws are.

By the way, whoever thinks it's laughable to compare heroin to oxy, get off your stupid high horse and actually try heroin, they're also basically the same thing.

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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: OrgasmicBanana]
    #22609783 - 12/03/15 05:43 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Meth high is smoother and much longer lasting and WAYYYYY compulsive. The smoothness is because of serotonin release which adderall does not do. They are basically the same highs but as much as mushrooms is to LSD. Maybe a little more closely related than that.

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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: Ellis Dee] * 1
    #22610101 - 12/03/15 06:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Great thread OP


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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: Sham87]
    #22612538 - 12/04/15 11:19 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

:potleaf: D.A.R.E :potleaf:
D.a.r.e
Users may choose only one (2 total votes)
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You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

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Re: Big Pharma’s Adderall Is Basically Crystal Meth, Says Dr. Carl Hart [Re: PsilocybinMan]
    #22613388 - 12/04/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

this is why i fuck with this guy

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