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 bennylava
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 I look forward to the day...  1
#22322179 - 10/02/15 05:15 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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...when technology completely kills socialism, and does away with big government. Much of the government (and liberalism as a whole) will be killed off by technology. After all, if you've got a robot gardening in your lawn and growing much of your food (not to mention cooking it for you) then a ton of problems related to the government just disappeared. Then take nanotechnology, which will eventually become quite cheap, and will cure you of just about anything that ever ails the human body. So now medicare and medicade are dead.
SS will take a huge blow with advent of the robots, and so does illegal immigration. The robots are coming, to kill illegal immigration, make no mistake. Illegal immigration will be put to death by robots. Only a matter of time. And the list just goes on and on, of government killing technologies. They just won't have any reason to exist anymore, no one will use them, and no one will need to. Such that in 50 years, most of the government we have now will be obsolete.
3D printers are pretty cool now, but there will come a day when most of the items you'd buy from the store, will just pop out of your home 3D printer. They're thinking that in the future, you'll throw in your trash, some sticks and rocks from outside, old junk, etc, and you can produce all manner of stuff that you have to go to the store to buy, today. All of these technologies will shrink the government dramatically, on a long enough timeline. Thoughts? Opinions?
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The Ecstatic
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Re: I look forward to the day... [Re: bennylava] 1
#22322957 - 10/02/15 10:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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You're in for a rude awakening, then.
As technology advances, it's going to kill more and more jobs, at an exponential rate. So where are these people going to get money for their gardening and agriculture robots?
The answer is socialism. In a jobless economy, the middle and lower class have no means of income. Governments will either face insurgency and revolt by protecting the 1%, or absorb the means of production into the public sphere, whereas each resident will receive a standard minimum income on the fruits of that production.
We've seen this coming for a while now.
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 Le_Canard
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Re: I look forward to the day... [Re: The Ecstatic]
#22323111 - 10/02/15 11:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, since it will be a conservative world according to Bennylava, the rich can harvest the poorer for food and/or use them for gladiatorial combat games, as we all know the only value someone has in the conservative world is how much they have in their bank accounts.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: I look forward to the day... [Re: Le_Canard]
#22323795 - 10/02/15 01:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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In the capitalist utopian future, to advance in social classes one must only pull up their bootstraps and win the Hunger Games.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: I look forward to the day... [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#22323887 - 10/02/15 01:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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To advance in a socialist utopian future, one must be born into the ruling class, otherwise they have to wait in line for toilet paper like everyone else...
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bennylava
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Re: I look forward to the day... [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#22324251 - 10/02/15 03:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
You're in for a rude awakening, then.
As technology advances, it's going to kill more and more jobs, at an exponential rate. So where are these people going to get money for their gardening and agriculture robots?
The answer is socialism. In a jobless economy, the middle and lower class have no means of income. Governments will either face insurgency and revolt by protecting the 1%, or absorb the means of production into the public sphere, whereas each resident will receive a standard minimum income on the fruits of that production.
We've seen this coming for a while now.
Wrong. Again, you didn't understand the post you replied to, and then you went and assumed to much. Socialism isn't the answer, its a disease that bankrupts nations. Do you not understand that things get cheaper with time? What I'm saying is, there won't be any "poor people" anymore. You won't be able to be poor. You'd have to try really hard, if you wanted to be poor. It may not even be physically possible. On a long enough timeline, these servant type robots that cook, clean, grow a garden, fix things, etc, are going to be cheap. Everyone will be able to have one. Everyone. That includes your "poor people" label.
Once again, on a long enough timeline, the nanomachines will also become cheap, even free. So now these people who aren't even capable of being poor anymore, have basically a hospital living inside their body, which fixes anything on the cellular level. People will be living to be 150 easily. Some maybe even longer.
The 3D printers, are going to kill off much of these big companies you seem to think are all powerful and run by demons. You clearly only read about 1 sentence of each post, maybe just the thread title. The "printers" will also of course, one day be very inexpensive. And they make most of the items you would buy at the store.
So please explain how someone who has all of these inexpensive items, could be poor? What job? They don't need any job. They'll be free to pursue college or the arts or whatever. No job necessary. Its the lazy welfare idiot's wet dream.
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The Ecstatic
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
To advance in a socialist utopian future, one must be born into the ruling class, otherwise they have to wait in line for toilet paper like everyone else...
Another person who doesn't know what socialism is, I'm soooo surprised.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: I look forward to the day... [Re: The Ecstatic]
#22325644 - 10/02/15 08:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Things get cheaper over time. So what? 95% of consumers get their money from their job.
When jobs disappear, where do people get income?
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Stonehenge
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Re: I look forward to the day... [Re: bennylava] 1
#22325678 - 10/02/15 08:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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You have a good point, ben. I have often thought the same thing. We will live in our cocoons with no need to go into the outside world. It will all be virtual reality. We will go to spain for the weekend, pop over to Hawaii, then a day in Tibet, all thanks to virtual reality. Our image will go there and we will see and experience it like we are there but we aren't.
Prices will drop so much people won't have to work 40 hours, it will be enough to work 30, then 20, 10, 5, 4... etc. People might work a year after going to college and then retire for the rest of their lives. Then it will be 6 months, etc.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
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The Ecstatic
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Re: I look forward to the day... [Re: Stonehenge]
#22325865 - 10/02/15 08:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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lol you libertarians have such a tenuous grasp on reality.
Don't even understand supply and demand and that's the fucking cornerstone of your philosophy.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'
Registered: 10/24/09
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
To advance in a socialist utopian future, one must be born into the ruling class, otherwise they have to wait in line for toilet paper like everyone else...
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bennylava
Bad example
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Re: I look forward to the day... [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#22326235 - 10/02/15 10:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
To advance in a socialist utopian future, one must be born into the ruling class, otherwise they have to wait in line for toilet paper like everyone else...
Another person who doesn't know what socialism is, I'm soooo surprised.
Um, no. He's citing what socialism has SHOWN us many times already. Shown. Not theorized. Learn the real world history of your own ideology.
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
lol you libertarians have such a tenuous grasp on reality.
Don't even understand supply and demand and that's the fucking cornerstone of your philosophy.
If our grasp is tenuous, then yours doesn't even exist. Money doesn't grow on trees, and fairy dust and puppy dogs won't make it all better.
You don't even understand what you're reading. Or you can't really even fathom what your own wishes are, which is to create some kind of utopia. This "demand" you're talking about, is met by the machines. These "jobs" you insist that everyone absolutely must have in a future when it isn't even necessary, aren't necessary. Not only that, you don't even understand what you're saying someone else doesn't understand.
Do you really think that just because several industries disappear, that new ones aren't going to appear, and that somehow, as if by magic, all other jobs are going to disappear? Do you really that that all the jobs in the world are based on medical, non grocery items, and agriculture? Those are all the jobs? Nobody has any other type of job? All other jobs are going to cease to exist?
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The Ecstatic
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Re: I look forward to the day... [Re: bennylava]
#22326293 - 10/02/15 10:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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You must really have a concrete and logical crticism of socialism when you can't get two sentences into that criticism without ridiculous hyperbole.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: I look forward to the day... [Re: The Ecstatic]
#22326300 - 10/02/15 10:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Name a job that couldn't possibly be replaced by machines.
How about invent one that doesn't even exist yet that couldn't possible be replaced by machines.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: I look forward to the day... [Re: The Ecstatic]
#22326309 - 10/02/15 11:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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For some reason you think that even though technology is going to be extremely cheap, corporations won't take advantage of that to reduce/eradicate labor costs, not to mention SS, liability, payroll, health insurance, etc.
This is just one example of many that points out how absurd the libertarian notion of "if we just create a utopian scenario for the corporations, they won't even need to exploit us."
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bennylava
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Re: I look forward to the day... [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#22326342 - 10/02/15 11:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
For some reason you think that even though technology is going to be extremely cheap, corporations won't take advantage of that to reduce/eradicate labor costs, not to mention SS, liability, payroll, health insurance, etc.
This is just one example of many that points out how absurd the libertarian notion of "if we just create a utopian scenario for the corporations, they won't even need to exploit us."
You're not even reading the posts you're replying to, are you? You're high again, aren't you? /facepalm
Take that last line you said. "If we just create a uptopian scenarie for coporations, they won't even need to exploit us". How would they be able to exploit us, if they aren't relying on us anymore, and a good portion of them no longer exist? You don't even understand the technology you're debating against. In 50 years, these 3D printers are going to put most of them out of business. But guess what? THAT'S BUSINESS. That's how she rolls, she's a fickle mistress. Do you even know how many industries the internet has completely destroyed, or otherwise dramatically shrank? No need to answer that, I already know the answer.
Most of those big bad corporations are going to be GONE. Now what? And the ones that are left, won't have any teeth, as any control they might have had has slipped away, with people being able to grow most of their own food and not really needing anything, medically speaking. A valid question for you to ask, is what will all these big buildings be turned into? Will they just be rotting husks? Hospitals, walmarts, home depot, clothing stores, electronics stores, the list is a mile long. They'll all be gone. Nothing for them to sell anymore. You can make it at home. Just download the file, put it in your printer, and throw in some trash, sticks, rocks, dirt, or whatever else it may ask for. Put it this way. The 3D printers we have now, are basically just early versions of the star trek replicator. Just do a little research, man. They all say this is where its going. Personally if I was walmart, I'd be shaking in my boots. They're ALL living on borrowed time. I doubt they see it coming though.
Edited by bennylava (10/02/15 11:19 PM)
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The Ecstatic
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Re: I look forward to the day... [Re: bennylava]
#22327197 - 10/03/15 08:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Isn't it weird how, at the height of technology today, income inequality is at its highest levels, the stock market is at its highest levels, and corporate profits are at their highest levels? CEO pay at its highest levels?
How can this be if technology is helping the little guy and hurting corporations?
Who do you think is making the 3d printers? And do you think they'll sell them at a price lower than what demand dictates?
You can keep obfuscating and telling me I'm not paying attention, but you're ignoring HUGE holes in your theory.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: I look forward to the day... [Re: The Ecstatic]
#22327204 - 10/03/15 08:26 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Also, corporations evolve, mutate, absorb other businesses.
Look at GE. Look at AOL. Look at Google.
These multinationals aren't just going to wake up one day and say "welp guys, solar power is now cheaper than gasoline, better shut down the business."
Fuck no, Shell would rather see the world burn than lose their market share, or transition into a different market using their billions upon billions in capital.
So incredibly naive...
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bennylava
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Re: I look forward to the day... [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#22327319 - 10/03/15 09:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Isn't it weird how, at the height of technology today, income inequality is at its highest levels, the stock market is at its highest levels, and corporate profits are at their highest levels? CEO pay at its highest levels?
How can this be if technology is helping the little guy and hurting corporations?
Who do you think is making the 3d printers? And do you think they'll sell them at a price lower than what demand dictates? You can keep obfuscating and telling me I'm not paying attention, but you're ignoring HUGE holes in your theory. Also, corporations evolve, mutate, absorb other businesses.
Look at GE. Look at AOL. Look at Google.
These multinationals aren't just going to wake up one day and say "welp guys, solar power is now cheaper than gasoline, better shut down the business." Fuck no, Shell would rather see the world burn than lose their market share, or transition into a different market using their billions upon billions in capital.
So incredibly naive...
You still don't get it. They don't have a choice. Its more like "You better bend over, cause this goin' happen" type of thing. I keep saying you're not understanding, because you're not understanding. The answer to your question is very simple. Why is all that still going on today? Why at the highest levels in history? Because the technology still isn't that far along yet. You must be very young. You've had the internet all your life, haven't you? I was born in the mid 80's, and as such, the 90's is something I remember quite well. No a whole lot of internet going on in the 90's.
Of course it existed, but it was slow and dumb, and had yet to do the damage it was going to do. On top of that, the number of people who were into computers, and who really understood and regularly used a computer, and who owned a home PC, was freakin' TINY compared to nowadays. Nowadays, everyone uses a computer, all the time. Your smart phone is 50x more capable than a PC of 1996. So there's your answer.
Now riddle me this. You don't think that all the industries that the internet has killed, wanted to stay in business? We're talking big corporations here. It has killed many companies, and it still isn't done yet. The bigger and more powerful it gets, the more of them it will consume. Here's a video that doesn't do it justice. And of course they'll sell it cheap. Extremely cheap. When they start getting cheap to produce, there will start to be price wars. Competition is good. Your view of the world is frankly, very sad and depressing. Technology makes things better, not worse. Eventually, the libbies won't have any victims left to champion. What will you do then?
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The Ecstatic
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Re: I look forward to the day... [Re: bennylava]
#22327401 - 10/03/15 09:51 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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So your retort is "the technology isn't advanced enough yet."
Once again, your answer to reality is a hypothetical. But I'm the one who doesn't understand...
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