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 GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,467
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 6 hours
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Quote:
Say it isn't so! Why they'd be better off dead!
So they have all these lovely things. I wonder if they might just be up to their eyeballs in debt as well?
Quote:
Work harder. What a horrible concept actually expecting people to work.!!
So there is definitely enough work out there for everyone then? Dont just say "Yeah of course there is" prove it.
Yeah its an interesting read but thats about it. Whats the source? wheres the proof of the claims? Its obviously got a right wing bias Yawnn. Poverty doesnt exist? Its just the lazy who are poor? Grow a brain Luv.
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Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,467
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 6 hours
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 Re: The American poor. [Re: GazzBut]
#2227595 - 01/08/04 05:11 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh I see you have provided a source and what a surprise its a right wing think tank that agrees with your views! Woahh! Thats amazing!! I can feel my whole belief system changing from the force of your arguement! Thats weak you donut! 
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Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,467
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 6 hours
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Re: The American poor. [Re: ]
#2227601 - 01/08/04 05:14 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
you can think that way if you like, but it doesn't make it right. it's still theft whether its "pacification" or not. i'd prefer the term "extortion" myself, but oh well...
Oh for fucks sake grow up! You are talking absolute bollocks. People shouldnt have to pay taxes? How can you keep repeating this shit when you have already admitted you dont know who should pay for roads etc etc. As if roads are the only thing provided by a central government and enjoyed by all.
OOOHH BUT THINK OF THE INDIVIDUALSSSS
ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Always Smi2le
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 Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The American poor. [Re: GazzBut]
#2227701 - 01/08/04 07:07 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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right wing think tank that agrees with your views!
Yup another peice of shit "thinktank":
A think tank is an organization that claims to serve as a center for research and analysis of important public issues. In reality, many think tanks are little more than public relations fronts, usually headquartered in state or national seats of government and generating self-serving scholarship that serves the advocacy goals of their industry sponsors; in the words of Yellow Times.org columnist John Chuckman, "phony institutes where ideologue-propagandists pose as academics ... [into which] money gushes like blood from opened arteries to support meaningless advertising's suffocation of genuine debate". [1] Of course, some think tanks are more legitimate than that. Private funding does not necessarily make a researcher a shill, and some think-tanks produce worthwhile public policy research. In general, however, research from think tanks is ideologically driven in accordance with the interests of its funders.
Think tanks have a decided political leaning. There are twice as many conservative think tanks as leftist ones, and the conservative ones generally have more money. This is no accident, as one of the important functions of think tanks is to provide a backdoor way for wealthy business interests to promote their ideas or to support economic and sociological research not taking place elsewhere that they feel may turn out in their favor. "Modern think tanks are nonprofit, tax-exempt, political idea factories where donations can be as big as the donor's checkbook and are seldom publicized," notes Tom Brazaitis, writing for the Cleveland Plain Dealer. "Technology companies give to think tanks that promote open access to the internet. Wall Street firms donate to think tanks that espouse private investment of retirement funds." So much money now flows in, that the top 20 conservative think tanks now spend more money than all of the "soft money" contributions to the Republican party.
As economist Jonathan Rowe has observed, the term "think" tanks is a misnomer. His comment was directed at the conservative Heritage Foundation, but it applies equally well to many other think tanks, regardless of ideology: "They don't think; they justify."
http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Think_tanks
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JameZTheNewbie
The Mahatma OfZalu
Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 734
Loc: pass the gates of hell 2 ...
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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fuck statistics
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Mice have feelings
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DeepDish
journeyman
Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 55
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Once again this study fails to account for the massive amount of debt that poor people in America possess. A morgage, car loan, plus an average of 10,000 dollars on credit card would easily provide for the luxuries mentioned in the study. First subtract the assets from the debt, and then you will get a more accurate picture of exactly what these people really possess. While it would be easy to simply dissmiss this argument saying that the people shouldn't have overextended themselves in the first place, and the fault is wholely their own, you must realize that his is what makes money lenders rich. By shackling huge amounts of people with massive amounts of debt that they will never be able to pay off, the lenders bottom line is increased and their stock goes up. Each transaction is voluntary, however, the nature of the relationship is inherently exploitative, with the poor people grasping for something they can never have, yet are being subtly promised by the marketing executives.
The second point I would like to address is your firm belief that that the 10th ammendment prohibts any sort of welfare, or federal government taxation. This is simply not true; the constitution like any peice of writing, no matter how concise, can be interpreted in a variety of ways. Much as I could interpret a novel one way, a proffessor of literature at Oxford could interpret it another way with each being equally valid interpretations. His interpretation, however, will hold much more weight then mine, and while you may believe that the 10th ammendment nullifies income tax, the supreme court has ruled directly the opposite on a number of occasions, the most famous being the desicion to allow social security. I'm not saying that your point is totally invalid, it is just that everyone believes their interpretation to be correct, yet the only interpretation which truly matters is that of the supreme court, and in this case they are not on your side.
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Anonymous
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Re: The American poor. [Re: GazzBut]
#2228178 - 01/08/04 11:09 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh for fucks sake grow up! You are talking absolute bollocks. People shouldnt have to pay taxes? How can you keep repeating this shit when you have already admitted you dont know who should pay for roads etc etc. As if roads are the only thing provided by a central government and enjoyed by all.
i don't think the government should be taking from some and giving to others.
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Baby_Hitler
Anarcho-Technologist
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 20,958
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 5 hours, 59 minutes
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Re: The American poor. [Re: ]
#2228224 - 01/08/04 11:23 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Neither should "big business" but they don't let that stop them.
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infidelGOD
illusion
Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
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yeah at least government steals from the rich and gives to the poor.
big business is the opposite.
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,467
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 6 hours
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Re: The American poor. [Re: ]
#2228452 - 01/08/04 12:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
i don't think the government should be taking from some and giving to others.
But you still want to live in what, for all our bitching, are great societies? Do you think we shouldnt have to contribute to that? That sounds more like theft to me.
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Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,467
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 6 hours
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Re: The American poor. [Re: ]
#2228453 - 01/08/04 12:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
i don't think the government should be taking from some and giving to others.
But you still want to live in what, for all our bitching, are great societies? Do you think we shouldnt have to contribute to that? That sounds more like theft to me.
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Always Smi2le
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Anonymous
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Re: The American poor. [Re: GazzBut]
#2228798 - 01/08/04 02:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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huh?
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 20,727
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: The American poor. [Re: DeepDish]
#2228874 - 01/08/04 03:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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The tenth is about as clear as it gets. There is no wiggle room. Or are you suggesting that because the courts OK'd SS that they are infallible?
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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A thin-skinned Mod that deletes rates of himself that he doesn't like.
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,389
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 4 hours, 16 minutes
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Re: The American poor. [Re: GazzBut]
#2228999 - 01/08/04 04:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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GazzBut writes:
Oh I see you have provided a source and what a surprise its a right wing think tank that agrees with your views!
The Heritage Foundation didn't invent those numbers. They are from the US Census Bureau. All those numbers and more are available to all who ask.
pinky
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 20,727
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: The American poor. [Re: Phred]
#2229013 - 01/08/04 04:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Funny how that works. Can't fault the message so mock the messenger.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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A thin-skinned Mod that deletes rates of himself that he doesn't like.
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Baby_Hitler
Anarcho-Technologist
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 20,958
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 5 hours, 59 minutes
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That should be a bannable offense. 
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 20,727
Loc: Lost In Space
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Sounds a bit extreme.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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A thin-skinned Mod that deletes rates of himself that he doesn't like.
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,467
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 6 hours
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To Pinky and Luvvy: I wasnt faulting the numbers I was questioning the interpretation.
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Always Smi2le
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DeepDish
journeyman
Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 55
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Perhaps you missed my point, I clearly stated that infallibility is not the issue, rather it is a matter of interpretive power. In fact if you go back and read your post on the issue you will find that you assume an air of infallibilty that is much stronger that that demonstrated by the supreme court. During the presidency of FDR the courts ruled that the "General Welfare Clause" would be interpreted under Madison's vision, rather than Jefferson's. Madison had a much broader view of what he defined as general welfare. While you may prefer Jefferson's view, in order for your arguement against the court ruling and welfare in general to hold ground, you need to develop something better than the line, "The tenth is pefectly clear."
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ToiletDuk
Cat Psychiatrist
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 73,302
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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What about the truly disabled? Would you have them begging on street corners? Would this be considered "employment" by this "Think-Tank"?
Hey, I've got an idea! Since poorer families have more kids, let's repeal all the child labour laws and put kids 7 years and up to work in dangerous factory jobs for 12-14 hours a day, and pay them $5 a day. That'll teach the l'il bastards the value of a dollar! 
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