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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,752
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: bennylava]
#22333592 - 10/04/15 05:02 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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bennylava said:
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hostileuniverse said: It's funny, conservative and libertarians have never had to "rebrand" themselves... Socialists, progressives, liberals, keep changing what they call themselves trying to convince the masses it's some new profound ideology, when really it's just the same ol crap...
What's also funny, is that they seem to think no one will notice. They must think that everyone else won't recognize it for the same thing. Its like they think everyone else must be as dumb as they are.
Socialists and liberals existed long before the term "libertarianism," or anarcho capitalist, or anarcho syndaclist, or whatever it's called nowadays.
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur
Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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The Ecstatic said:
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bennylava said:
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hostileuniverse said: It's funny, conservative and libertarians have never had to "rebrand" themselves... Socialists, progressives, liberals, keep changing what they call themselves trying to convince the masses it's some new profound ideology, when really it's just the same ol crap...
What's also funny, is that they seem to think no one will notice. They must think that everyone else won't recognize it for the same thing. Its like they think everyone else must be as dumb as they are.
Socialists and liberals existed long before the term "libertarianism," or anarcho capitalist, or anarcho syndaclist, or whatever it's called nowadays.
all extremely different ideologies. Calling a libertarian an anarchist is no different than calling a democrat a totalitarian. they're both intellectually dishonest statements and you're better than that.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs
Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 14,047
Last seen: 5 hours, 57 minutes
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psyconaught said:
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The Ecstatic said:
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bennylava said:
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hostileuniverse said: It's funny, conservative and libertarians have never had to "rebrand" themselves... Socialists, progressives, liberals, keep changing what they call themselves trying to convince the masses it's some new profound ideology, when really it's just the same ol crap...
What's also funny, is that they seem to think no one will notice. They must think that everyone else won't recognize it for the same thing. Its like they think everyone else must be as dumb as they are.
Socialists and liberals existed long before the term "libertarianism," or anarcho capitalist, or anarcho syndaclist, or whatever it's called nowadays.
all extremely different ideologies. Calling a libertarian an anarchist is no different than calling a democrat a totalitarian. they're both intellectually dishonest statements and you're better than that.
They are no less similar than Liberal and Socialist.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight
Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 3,763
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Ideologies are dumb anyway, they're terrible for adapting to ever changing times.
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bennylava
Bad example
Registered: 05/29/15
Posts: 587
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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paperbackwriter said: I also used to be a libertarian. Suppose that makes me a liar too?
Well lets see, are you in here spouting complete bullshit, and trying in vain to gain credit? Talking about how much more well traveled you are, and on and on, when you don't even know the person you're talking to?
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Turtletotem said: Ideologies are dumb anyway, they're terrible for adapting to ever changing times.
That's why I said previously that I'm not really one for labels. They don't actually do much good, except for the limited time that they're relevant.
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The Ecstatic said:Socialists and liberals existed long before the term "libertarianism," or anarcho capitalist, or anarcho syndaclist, or whatever it's called nowadays.
Do you ever get tired of looking like the most ignorant mofo on the board? "libertarianism" or rather its ideals, were around for 10's of thousands of years before the bad idea of bad ideas that is socialism, aka giving the government way too much money and power. I suppose all those ancient tribes and primitive cultures had big brother looking out for them too?? ROFL! Yeah, I'm sure they gave what money they didn't even have, to... to... well they just burned it (same difference really) because there wasn't any government to give it to. I'm gonna redirect some other people here, to read your posts. They shouldn't be missed.
You're so ignorant in fact, that you don't seem to know the difference between 1, and 0. Anarchists (do they even exist??) would stand for absolutely no government, and I've never seen, nor even HEARD of a libertarian that wanted that. Small government does not = no government. 1 does not equal 0. Did you miss kindergarten, or first grade? I know I'm saying all of this for nothing, but it needs to be said.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,752
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 7 hours, 57 minutes
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Bigbadwooof said:
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psyconaught said:
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The Ecstatic said:
Socialists and liberals existed long before the term "libertarianism," or anarcho capitalist, or anarcho syndaclist, or whatever it's called nowadays.
all extremely different ideologies. Calling a libertarian an anarchist is no different than calling a democrat a totalitarian. they're both intellectually dishonest statements and you're better than that.
They are no less similar than Liberal and Socialist.
Exactly.
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bennylava
Bad example
Registered: 05/29/15
Posts: 587
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Exactly wrong
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear
Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: bennylava]
#22335785 - 10/05/15 06:47 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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You don't understand socialism bennylava. It's an economic system and can work independently of having a government at all. Some of the best examples of socialism in action are worker coops and labor unions.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight
Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 3,763
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: bennylava]
#22335796 - 10/05/15 06:54 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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bennylava said:
That's why I said previously that I'm not really one for labels. They don't actually do much good, except for the limited time that they're relevant.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,752
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 7 hours, 57 minutes
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paperbackwriter said: You don't understand socialism bennylava. It's an economic system and can work independently of having a government at all. Some of the best examples of socialism in action are worker coops and labor unions.
The principles of socialism are beyond the need of the coercion of the state, but at that point it'd be called communism.
As far as Marx is concerned, socialism is the transition from capitalism to communism.
But yeah, my mental list of the posters here who have proven they can't even define socialism grows one larger. And they're all conservatives go figure.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear
Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Yeah, a lot of people seem to think socialism means high taxes and welfare. States that are more socialist do tend to take better care of their citizens but it's like equating capitalism with pro-lifers. Just because the two tend to go hand and hand politically doesn't make them synonyms.
I also find the 'big government' equals socialism bit ironic. It was police that injured and killed striking workers during the Great Depression.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
Edited by paperbackwriter (10/05/15 08:25 AM)
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur
Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Bigbadwooof said:
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psyconaught said:
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The Ecstatic said:
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bennylava said:
Socialists and liberals existed long before the term "libertarianism," or anarcho capitalist, or anarcho syndaclist, or whatever it's called nowadays.
all extremely different ideologies. Calling a libertarian an anarchist is no different than calling a democrat a totalitarian. they're both intellectually dishonest statements and you're better than that.
They are no less similar than Liberal and Socialist.
Wrong. The goal of libertarianism is not total abolishon of government just like the goal of a democrat is not total omnipresent government control. You severely misunderstand the philosophy of libertarianism if you think this is the case.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Bigbadwooof said: If someone uses a hammer to beat their wife for 20 years, does that make the hammer bad? Fuck no. I can still drive nails with it perfectly fine!
the only purpose of a hammer is to beat on things and to drive down the nails that stand out
BAN HAMMERS
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,752
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 7 hours, 57 minutes
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What a refreshingly slightly darker brown shade of shit
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight
Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 3,763
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Prisoner#1 said:
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Bigbadwooof said: If someone uses a hammer to beat their wife for 20 years, does that make the hammer bad? Fuck no. I can still drive nails with it perfectly fine!
the only purpose of a hammer is to beat on things and to drive down the nails that stand out
BAN HAMMERS
Prisoner for president of the world! This guy asks the real questions, no pussyfooting from Prisoner, yessirreebob!
Libertarianism is a fucking joke, though.
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bennylava
Bad example
Registered: 05/29/15
Posts: 587
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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paperbackwriter said: You don't understand socialism bennylava. It's an economic system and can work independently of having a government at all. Some of the best examples of socialism in action are worker coops and labor unions.
Labor unions? More burdensome corruption. Ever heard of the mafia? They may have largely been driven out, (although arguably not completely) but even still labor unions are big business. See the honda (or was it hundai..) plants in Georgia. The company actually treats its workers so well, that when a union tried to force its way in, the workers unanimously didn't want to see any changes to their current system. They have good wages and are satisfied with their low cost, yet highly effective health insurance. And obviously, adding an unnecessary party would bring on unnecessary changes, when the employees were perfectly fine with what they had. Some threats were made by the union, to the employees themselves, as well as corporate, but the union was warned off by local law enforcement. They said they will continue seeking "cracks" which they can use to slip in. Like the cockroaches they are.
Yes this is only one example, and of course you're going to have companies that aren't nearly so nice. I'm just pointing out that labor unions are not the "nice guys" you think they are. They're more big business, and they get really shitty towards people when they don't get their way. Unions have resulted in the complete shut down of many companies, costing all manner of jobs that never came back. They're also largely responsible for many companies moving their operations to other countries, thus costing even more jobs. You're going to have to be more specific about "labor co-ops", cause that means a number of different things to a number of different people.
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Turtletotem said:
Libertarianism is a fucking joke, though.
Definitely less of a joke than liberalism, however.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Quote:
Turtletotem said:
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Prisoner#1 said:
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Bigbadwooof said: If someone uses a hammer to beat their wife for 20 years, does that make the hammer bad? Fuck no. I can still drive nails with it perfectly fine!
the only purpose of a hammer is to beat on things and to drive down the nails that stand out
BAN HAMMERS
Prisoner for president of the world! This guy asks the real questions, no pussyfooting from Prisoner, yessirreebob!
Libertarianism is a fucking joke, though.
ban hammers yo!
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight
Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 3,763
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: bennylava]
#22336278 - 10/05/15 10:12 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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bennylava said:
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paperbackwriter said: You don't understand socialism bennylava. It's an economic system and can work independently of having a government at all. Some of the best examples of socialism in action are worker coops and labor unions.
Labor unions? More burdensome corruption. Ever heard of the mafia? They may have largely been driven out, (although arguably not completely) but even still labor unions are big business. See the honda (or was it hundai..) plants in Georgia. The company actually treats its workers so well, that when a union tried to force its way in, the workers unanimously didn't want to see any changes to their current system. They have good wages and are satisfied with their low cost, yet highly effective health insurance. And obviously, adding an unnecessary party would bring on unnecessary changes, when the employees were perfectly fine with what they had. Some threats were made by the union, to the employees themselves, as well as corporate, but the union was warned off by local law enforcement. They said they will continue seeking "cracks" which they can use to slip in. Like the cockroaches they are.
Yes this is only one example, and of course you're going to have companies that aren't nearly so nice. I'm just pointing out that labor unions are not the "nice guys" you think they are. They're more big business, and they get really shitty towards people when they don't get their way. Unions have resulted in the complete shut down of many companies, costing all manner of jobs that never came back. They're also largely responsible for many companies moving their operations to other countries, thus costing even more jobs. You're going to have to be more specific about "labor co-ops", cause that means a number of different things to a number of different people.
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Turtletotem said:
Libertarianism is a fucking joke, though.
Definitely less of a joke than liberalism, however.
No, no libertarians are way more delusional than liberals. Not that I'm overly fond of American-style liberalism, tho. Bunch of cunt-doctrines.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear
Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Capitalism at work [Re: bennylava]
#22336525 - 10/05/15 11:28 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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bennylava said:
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paperbackwriter said: You don't understand socialism bennylava. It's an economic system and can work independently of having a government at all. Some of the best examples of socialism in action are worker coops and labor unions.
Labor unions? More burdensome corruption.
Every healthy system has corruption.
The point I was making was that socialism and big government are not synonyms. Socialism is an economic system where the workers rather than capitalists control the means of production. Labor unions allow workers to have some say in capitalist business models. Worker coops allow socialist business models to coexist alongside capitalist ones.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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bennylava
Bad example
Registered: 05/29/15
Posts: 587
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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paperbackwriter said:Every healthy system has corruption.
The exact same thing could be said about all the things you've been railing against. Namely capitalism. If all the "capitalists" were good people who genuinely cared about their fellow man, you and your kind wouldn't have a leg to stand on. You'd be pulled down with a vengeance by everyone with half a brain. So basically you just admitted that capitalism is fine. We just need to enforce the laws that are already one the books, and maybe add a few more, but that's it.
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