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Offlinestarfire_xes
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If you are against Crony Capitalism, here is why we need to stop the flow of tax money to DC....
    #22182104 - 09/03/15 08:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

So, we increase taxes, or borrow on a blank credit card, and the money poors into the coffers in DC.  Right now the US has record revenues.


Then people bitch about the big companies bribing the politicians with big money to get them doing what the companies want them to do.

That's right, so think about this:  if we severely limit what the government is allowed to spend, and on what, cut off the credit card, and make them spend responsibly the problem would disappear.

Why?  Because all that money that the fucking loony left and the Phony Right like to spend--either from taxes or a credit card--

THAT IS THE QUID PRO QUO the companies get for buying politicians. 

No money, no problem, right?  But you say well 'the poor, blah blah blah.  Well the money THEY get is the Quid Pro Quo for voting politicians into office.  So if no one except the truly needy:smirk: can get support, and the companies have no tax payer slush fund to keep them going, what happens?

1) Only the best and most efficient companies survive. 
2) People have to tighten their belts, be responsible, and work and save.

If you say it isn't fair to the poor, well, life isn't fair.  That's the laws of nature.  I've been poor and their is one immutable truth--when a person truly wants to get out of that shit, they find a way.

And as far as poor, I don't mean poor like in the US.  Frankly, Im just all broken up about 'poor people' who have cell phones, big screen TV's, and living a life style that is considered middle class in many countries--and they do it by sucking on the big ole government teat.  fuck it.:smirk:


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: If you are against Crony Capitalism, here is why we need to stop the flow of tax money to DC.... [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22182378 - 09/03/15 10:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah let's just remove the last roadblock for total corporate control.

That'll show the corporations.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: If you are against Crony Capitalism, here is why we need to stop the flow of tax money to DC.... [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22182387 - 09/03/15 10:25 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

you completely missed the point.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: If you are against Crony Capitalism, here is why we need to stop the flow of tax money to DC.... [Re: starfire_xes] * 1
    #22182425 - 09/03/15 10:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

No I got it, it's just a terrible point.

Your solution to our house being robbed is to sell the house.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: If you are against Crony Capitalism, here is why we need to stop the flow of tax money to DC.... [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22184456 - 09/03/15 07:17 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
No I got it, it's just a terrible point.

Your solution to our house being robbed is to sell the house.



Nope.  My solution to the house burning down is to cut off the fuel to the fire.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: If you are against Crony Capitalism, here is why we need to stop the flow of tax money to DC.... [Re: starfire_xes] * 1
    #22185496 - 09/03/15 09:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
No I got it, it's just a terrible point.

Your solution to our house being robbed is to sell the house.



Nope.  My solution to the house burning down is to cut off the fuel to the fire.




That's a terrible analogy. Because without that same "fuel," we don't have a house.

It's the same argument used by Ronnie Raygun. "Government IS the problem." Yeah, so lets just defund everything and clear any and all speed bumps for the people ruining our country. 

Once the corporations have unilateral control, surely they'll behave.

"Oh the drug cartels are bribing cops? That's terrible. Let's solve this drug cartel problem by defunding the shit out of the police force."

Yeah, brilliant. There's a reason nobody comments on your weekly rants.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: If you are against Crony Capitalism, here is why we need to stop the flow of tax money to DC.... [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22185749 - 09/03/15 10:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

As long as the politicianis have a slush fund of taxpayer umoney to give to the corporations, the corruption will continue.  I didnt say cut every dime--cut what is unecessary, which is a hell of a lot. As the whores say 'no money, no honey'  YOu sound like Nancy Pelosi-- 'The republicans want to cut government'  well I wish they really did want cut oovernment, because whoever cuts government gets my vote in a heartbeat.

So explain to me, Mr. Clueless, if there is no money to pay the corporations, how are they going to control everything????  they can't buy politiicians--they wont--if they cant get the quid pro quo.  Is that so hard to see?  Or are you stuck on the government is the solution to everything.  And if you think that, then why is the country so fucked up?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: If you are against Crony Capitalism, here is why we need to stop the flow of tax money to DC.... [Re: starfire_xes] * 1
    #22185787 - 09/03/15 10:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

So explain to me, Mr. Clueless, if there is no money to pay the corporations, how are they going to control everything????




Corporations make money in ways other than by bribing politicians.

Quote:

why is the country so fucked up?





Because corporations have too much power and aren't effectively kept in check by the people.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: If you are against Crony Capitalism, here is why we need to stop the flow of tax money to DC.... [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22185810 - 09/03/15 11:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:


Because corporations have too much power and aren't effectively kept in check by the people.




Now we are getting somewhere.  And whose fault is that...DUH....?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: If you are against Crony Capitalism, here is why we need to stop the flow of tax money to DC.... [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22185817 - 09/03/15 11:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Both people, and the corporations.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: If you are against Crony Capitalism, here is why we need to stop the flow of tax money to DC.... [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22185918 - 09/03/15 11:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:huxleyfacepalm:  who controls the money?  the politicians.  It isnt the corporations fault.


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: If you are against Crony Capitalism, here is why we need to stop the flow of tax money to DC.... [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22186737 - 09/04/15 07:55 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Who's to blame when a corporation bribes judges to ignore due process?


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: If you are against Crony Capitalism, here is why we need to stop the flow of tax money to DC.... [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22187964 - 09/04/15 12:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
:huxleyfacepalm:  who controls the money?  the politicians.  It isnt the corporations fault.




You can't say the problem with politics is that corporations control it, and then say the exact opposite when it's convenient for you.

The people, the politicians, and the corporations all control the money, to a wildly varying degree. The corporations have assumed as much control as possible because the people and the politicians let them.

If the people force the politicians to make laws against the corporations co opting the legislative process, suddenly the corporations don't have their hand in the cookie jar (which is your original concern).


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: If you are against Crony Capitalism, here is why we need to stop the flow of tax money to DC.... [Re: starfire_xes] * 1
    #22188626 - 09/04/15 03:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Star, you have a good idea but you are looking at the wrong end of it. Sure, govt spending on the wrong stuff to pay back bribes needs to stop but stopping govt from wasteful and fraudulent spending is shoveling shit against the tide, it has been tried for centuries and we are still where we are.

We need to stop the bribery itself, that's what I've been preaching for years, a voice crying in the wilderness. Maybe finally people will listen. Stop all campaign contributions and make campaigns publicly funded. Stop all jobs after office with any company that benefitted by legislation passed or voted on by the pol. Same with speaking fees, which are thinly disguised bribes. Same with in kind contributions of ads helping a politician. And stop foreigners from buying political ads. That might be harder but it can be done.

I know there are a lot of details to work out and loopholes to plug but that is the only way to stop corruption, make it illegal. The public has been calling for an end to lobbying for decades but the crooks in office pay no attention and the media is on the side of the crooks.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: If you are against Crony Capitalism, here is why we need to stop the flow of tax money to DC.... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22188729 - 09/04/15 03:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Stop all campaign contributions and make campaigns publicly funded.




:nodofunderstanding:

Quote:

Stop all jobs after office with any company that benefitted by legislation passed or voted on by the pol. Same with speaking fees, which are thinly disguised bribes. Same with in kind contributions of ads helping a politician. And stop foreigners from buying political ads. That might be harder but it can be done




What about shareholders?  Relatives?

Two real world examples that come to mind are Cheney/Haliburton and Rick Scott/Solantic.

How do we address these situations?


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: If you are against Crony Capitalism, here is why we need to stop the flow of tax money to DC.... [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22189096 - 09/04/15 05:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Stop all campaign contributions and make campaigns publicly funded.




:nodofunderstanding:

Quote:

Stop all jobs after office with any company that benefitted by legislation passed or voted on by the pol. Same with speaking fees, which are thinly disguised bribes. Same with in kind contributions of ads helping a politician. And stop foreigners from buying political ads. That might be harder but it can be done




What about shareholders?  Relatives?

Two real world examples that come to mind are Cheney/Haliburton and Rick Scott/Solantic.

How do we address these situations?




Force our courts to actually prosecute them.

The fact that a Medicare thief is running my state (the biggest Medicare state per capita) is fucking infuriating. I suppose that's on the voters though.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: If you are against Crony Capitalism, here is why we need to stop the flow of tax money to DC.... [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22189099 - 09/04/15 05:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Definitely agree with publicly funded campaigns though.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: If you are against Crony Capitalism, here is why we need to stop the flow of tax money to DC.... [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22189336 - 09/04/15 06:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

>What about shareholders?  Relatives?

Like I said it would be a bit complicated. We can bar relatives too, I don't know what you mean about shareholders. We want to make it clear that getting elected does not mean getting rich or richer. Once that is clear the bums will steer away and honest people will get in who will not have to fear a negative campaign funded by rich donors buying the other candidate. As it is now, the one who sells out the most usually wins.

>Two real world examples that come to mind are Cheney/Haliburton and Rick Scott/Solantic.

We stop all that crap from happening, that is an obvious conflict of interest. Did scott profit from his actions? That should be barred too.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: If you are against Crony Capitalism, here is why we need to stop the flow of tax money to DC.... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22190086 - 09/04/15 08:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

He did.  He gave his wife all his shares and then gave the contract to his company.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/gov-rick-scott-solantic-and-conflict-of-interest-whats-the-deal/1161158


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: If you are against Crony Capitalism, here is why we need to stop the flow of tax money to DC.... [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22190365 - 09/04/15 09:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I'm sorry, but that's about the dumbest thing I've read on here recently. Why is the Conservative solution always to throw the baby out with the bathwater?

By the way, quid-pro-quo isn't the only way corruption is perpetuated in government. Are you saying get rid of taxes or get rid of government and have anarchy. If you're saying just get rid of taxes, then we would still have a government, but I guess they wouldn't receive a paycheck. They could still create bias regulations that favor one company over another, and then go work for that company once they decided they actually wanted a paycheck.

Whatever the case, the solution is not so simple. The system can be fixed. It is possible. Stop being so lazy minded.


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"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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