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OfflineKronk
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Social politics. || A discussion
    #21870744 - 06/28/15 09:44 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I figure I would make this thread my proving ground. Somewhere to spend my time that is.

I love discussing politics. Specifically issues that pertain to matters of public opinion such as race and gender relations.

I want this thread to be a discussion of ideas regarding social evolution/advancement and related topics. There are no wrong answers. This is a place all of us to evolve our political opinions.

To clarify, this is not a thread for you to post generic peace and love crap. There is enough of that littering the forum. I want to see posts that bring up a specific issue along with your opinion on how that issue can be resolved. You don't have to have all of the answers, hopefully others will chime in with their own opinions, but do try and have some rhyme to your reason. It would be advisable to include any resources to support your opinions. Remember, if you can't back up those facts with proof than they aren't facts.



Please keep things respectful. If you find someones post to be offensive to your world view and you are incapable of having a civil argument using scientific method as your catalyst than simply do not respond to said post. If you have an issue with the terms logic and reason than it would be advisable that you not participate in this thread.








I'm too lazy to kick things off, so here is a template for your posts: (This is an example, feel free to do your thing. The example will probably be less coherent than I would like your posts to be.)
___________________________
Issue: Police profiling in America

Description: "Within law enforcement, rather than relying on the testimony of the driver or other documentation to determine the drivers race, ethnicity, or character, the officer makes a stereotypical  prejudgment which is used as a key factor to decide whether to engage in enforcement (e.g. stop and search or arrest)."

Impact: Police profiling largely, and unjustly targets black men in America. As a result of aggressive policing in ethnic communities have resulted in the unjust deaths of many black Americans at the hands of police.

Proposed solution: Policies issued on behalf of police departments to insure employee training and procedures to limit racial bias, otherwise known as General Order B-4 as developed by Berkeley police department with the aid of the NAACP. The adoption of such a system nationwide may reduce the subconscious profiling tendencies of certain individuals as well as provide measures to discourage such profiling by steepening penalties for the individual as well as their respective police department.

Resources: http://www.berkeleyside.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Berkeley-General-Order-B-4.pdf http://bpr.berkeley.edu/2014/11/03/the-fair-and-impartial-policy/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_profiling
______________________

This was a rushed example and is not meant to be discussed here, nor does it reflect my opinions regarding the subject.


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Feel the power...
...Oh, I can feel it

Edited by Kronk (06/28/15 09:45 PM)

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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: Kronk]
    #21870857 - 06/28/15 10:10 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

.

(typed something but then realized it was covered in the OP. oops)

Edited by Psilosopherr (06/28/15 10:11 PM)

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InvisibleShins
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21870922 - 06/28/15 10:18 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Police profile blacks because they commit more crimes, this is not a bad thing, its common sense.

Trying to stop it will make police less effective at fighting crime, that would not be a good thing.


proposed solution;  black people choose to commit less crimes and stop promoting it in our culture.


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OfflineKronk
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: Shins]
    #21870936 - 06/28/15 10:20 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

It was an example post to give you an idea of what the thread was about and how you should submit posts. I asked specifically for you not to discuss it. If someone else makes a post about it that is fine, but I wasn't trying to make a point.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: Kronk]
    #21870947 - 06/28/15 10:22 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

We already have a whole forum for this...


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: Shins]
    #21871791 - 06/29/15 02:15 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Police profile blacks because they commit more crimes, this is not a bad thing, its common sense.

Trying to stop it will make police less effective at fighting crime, that would not be a good thing.


proposed solution;  black people choose to commit less crimes and stop promoting it in our culture.




Not always true, and it can definitely go overboard. Like in the clearly racist Ferguson police force:

"A black motorist who is pulled over is twice as likely to be searched as a white motorist, even though searches of white drivers are more likely to turn up drugs or other contraband, the report found."


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: Shins]
    #21872357 - 06/29/15 08:22 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Police profile blacks because they commit more crimes, this is not a bad thing, its common sense.

Trying to stop it will make police less effective at fighting crime, that would not be a good thing.


proposed solution;  black people choose to commit less crimes and stop promoting it in our culture.




Black people get arrested more
because cops seek them out more
because black people commit more crimes
because black people get arrested more
because cops seek them out more
...


Impoverished black people are just as likely to commit crimes as impoverished white people. Cops seeking out blacks because they think they're likely to be criminals is a self fulfilling prophecy.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21873451 - 06/29/15 12:27 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Impoverished white peolle are not as likely to commit crimes, that's BS.  Asians even less so.  Asian privelidge!


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: Shins]
    #21873995 - 06/29/15 03:06 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

It's not BS at all.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: Shins]
    #21874252 - 06/29/15 04:18 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Police profile blacks because they commit more crimes, this is not a bad thing, its common sense.

Trying to stop it will make police less effective at fighting crime, that would not be a good thing.


proposed solution;  black people choose to commit less crimes and stop promoting it in our culture.




Of course. But that makes too much sense for the average liberal to understand.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21875858 - 06/29/15 10:00 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Pretty sure racism is against forum rules.

And claiming that blacks commit more crimes because of their skin color is racism.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21876218 - 06/30/15 12:26 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I didn't say it was because of anything,  I merely observed a statistical fact.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: Shins]
    #21877012 - 06/30/15 08:35 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
I didn't say it was because of anything,  I merely observed a statistical fact.




Then merely discounted the real world reason for that fact.


Why do you think blacks commit more crimes if not for poverty?


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21877348 - 06/30/15 10:09 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Because Asians who live in povery commit drastically less crime, by a huge margin.    How do you explain that?  Poverty is not the deciding factor.


my opinion is that it is a combination of genetics and culture.  Mostly culture, although both are inter related.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: Shins]
    #21877367 - 06/30/15 10:14 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

So you're saying it is in black people's genes to be criminals?


:lolsy:

Let me help you out of this whole you've just dug for yourself:

Culture isn't inherent.
Poverty isn't inherent.

Genetics are.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: Shins]
    #21877370 - 06/30/15 10:14 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Because Asians who live in povery commit drastically less crime, by a huge margin.    How do you explain that?





Can you provide a source for that, please?


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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InvisibleShins
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21877420 - 06/30/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
So you're saying it is in black people's genes to be criminals?


:lolsy:

Let me help you out of this whole you've just dug for yourself:

Culture isn't inherent.
Poverty isn't inherent.

Genetics are.




yes I am saying that.

why is it so shocking to assert that different genes have different ezpressions?  Its basic biology.

rottweilers bite more than golden retrievers, are you trying to tell me that their breed has absolutely nothing to do with that?  Face up to reality and stop being a coward.  Life is not fair.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21877424 - 06/30/15 10:27 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Because Asians who live in povery commit drastically less crime, by a huge margin.    How do you explain that?





Can you provide a source for that, please?






Want me to change your diaper too?

www.google.com


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: Shins]
    #21877429 - 06/30/15 10:29 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
So you're saying it is in black people's genes to be criminals?


:lolsy:

Let me help you out of this whole you've just dug for yourself:

Culture isn't inherent.
Poverty isn't inherent.

Genetics are.




yes I am saying that.






Then you're a racist.


Now you're trying to compare dog breeds to human races?

Just stop.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: Shins]
    #21877455 - 06/30/15 10:34 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Because Asians who live in povery commit drastically less crime, by a huge margin.    How do you explain that?





Can you provide a source for that, please?






Want me to change your diaper too?

www.google.com




You made a claim, the burden is on you to support it. Google is not a source but your welcome to use it to try and support your claim.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.

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InvisibleShins
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21877488 - 06/30/15 10:43 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
So you're saying it is in black people's genes to be criminals?


:lolsy:

Let me help you out of this whole you've just dug for yourself:

Culture isn't inherent.
Poverty isn't inherent.

Genetics are.




yes I am saying that.






Then you're a racist.


Now you're trying to compare dog breeds to human races?

Just stop.





Whether or not I am racist is irrelevant. 

And yes it is a perfectly fine comparison.  Genes ezpress themselves in different ways.  Dog breeds have different Genes that ezpress themselves differently, just like humans do.  Some dogs have more tendencies towards violence because of genes.


why do inneed to ezplain basic biology to you?  Why do tou deny basic biology? Are you too much of a coward to accept that life is not fair?


--------------------
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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: Shins]
    #21877696 - 06/30/15 11:40 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Life being unfair has nothing to do with blacks allegedly being genetically predisposed to criminality.


You're all over the road here.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21878200 - 06/30/15 01:41 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Yes it does. 

White guys cant run as fasy as black dudes on average.

Life is not fair.


the fact that black dudes can run faster is not a social construct either.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21878519 - 06/30/15 03:07 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Pretty sure racism is against forum rules.

And claiming that blacks commit more crimes because of their skin color is racism.



ssshhh

don't try to censor them

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21879880 - 06/30/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-43

lot of information there. Keep in mind that whites make up 77% of the US population to 14% black.

Also, cops treat black males differently because they are far more likely to be aggressive towards them.

I don't think it is entirely on the shoulders of blacks, but their culture promotes violence and that is not a racist sentiment. I don't think there is much rampant individual racism towards blacks, but the institution is geared towards keeping darky down.
Our legal system is mired in capitalism... meaning that poor people cannot afford to buy the best attorney to get them off charges, which means that black people in general are at a disadvantage in that respect.

The Baltimore police gave the protesters what they wanted and now they are crying for police to come back.

The police departments job is to decrease crime. The broken window theory is a prime example of indirect racial profiling, but it is an effective tool (some would argue) in lowering crime rates.

I have already had this discussion about 12 times this year, I would really like to move onto something else...

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21880861 - 06/30/15 11:27 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Wow, really? You lost your racist argument in the other thread so you litter this one with your garbage?

Just drop it already. This forum is not a soap box for you to spread hate.

Racism is hate speach. I can't believe this fucking trash is permitted around here. How disgusting.

The OP said to show evidence of your claim. We've got several threads worth of counterarguments for racism, one you've recently participated in and lost the argument because racism is socially constructed medieval nonsense.

I suppose the moderators around here are racist bigots also to allow you right wingers to run around here preaching nazi jargon. Your argument only leads to one conclusion - black people are violent criminals by nature, so let's get rid of them.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21880999 - 07/01/15 12:07 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Wow, really? You lost your racist argument in the other thread so you litter this one with your garbage?

Just drop it already. This forum is not a soap box for you to spread hate.

Racism is hate speach. I can't believe this fucking trash is permitted around here. How disgusting.

The OP said to show evidence of your claim. We've got several threads worth of counterarguments for racism, one you've recently participated in and lost the argument because racism is socially constructed medieval nonsense.

I suppose the moderators around here are racist bigots also to allow you right wingers to run around here preaching nazi jargon. Your argument only leads to one conclusion - black people are violent criminals by nature, so let's get rid of them.




First off, you need to go read that other thread because those kids just lost the debate.

Second, I shared the FBI crime statistics.
You are a pretty terrible debater if all you can do is call someone a racist.

The moderators here are probably level headed, rational people who aren't here to legislate morality or decide whether or not someone stating facts can be considered a racist. In fact, their primary job is to throw the ban hammer at shitheels like yourself that take up all this space and time slinging ad hominems due to being mentally deficient.

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21881002 - 07/01/15 12:08 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

On a side note, I would like to talk about how the SCOTUS decision regarding marriage has opened the door for Polygamy to be a federally sanctioned union.

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21881060 - 07/01/15 12:38 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SneezingPenis said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Wow, really? You lost your racist argument in the other thread so you litter this one with your garbage?

Just drop it already. This forum is not a soap box for you to spread hate.

Racism is hate speach. I can't believe this fucking trash is permitted around here. How disgusting.

The OP said to show evidence of your claim. We've got several threads worth of counterarguments for racism, one you've recently participated in and lost the argument because racism is socially constructed medieval nonsense.

I suppose the moderators around here are racist bigots also to allow you right wingers to run around here preaching nazi jargon. Your argument only leads to one conclusion - black people are violent criminals by nature, so let's get rid of them.




First off, you need to go read that other thread because those kids just lost the debate.

Second, I shared the FBI crime statistics.
You are a pretty terrible debater if all you can do is call someone a racist.

The moderators here are probably level headed, rational people who aren't here to legislate morality or decide whether or not someone stating facts can be considered a racist. In fact, their primary job is to throw the ban hammer at shitheels like yourself that take up all this space and time slinging ad hominems due to being mentally deficient.




I didn't use any ad hominem's. You, however, did just now. Calling someone a 'mentally deficient shitkicker' is an ad hominem; an assassination of my character. You lost that argument, or atleast withdrew before the discussion had ended, and therefore can't claim to have 'won' shit.

As far as me calling you a racist, how else would you define your views? Shall I provide you with the very definition of the word?

racism
[rey-siz-uh m]

    Examples
    Word Origin

noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.

Furthermore, I should say that while you apparently cannot be banned for spouting racist babble, you can be banned for name calling, and you would do well to watch your lip, son.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21881066 - 07/01/15 12:40 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SneezingPenis said:
On a side note, I would like to talk about how the SCOTUS decision regarding marriage has opened the door for Polygamy to be a federally sanctioned union.




Are you going to make that case? Or are you just regurgitating more inflammatory shit?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21881237 - 07/01/15 01:30 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

First off, you equated me to a nazi... you know what... whatever... it isn't even the insults that bother me, it is your inability to have a calm conversation without belligerently accusing everyone and everything as being racist.
I am racist by todays standards, but not by that definition. I don't believe that a persons race defines their potential, but their culture does. If that makes me a culturalist then I stand by that firmly. Black American culture is toxic and it creates far more violent, selfish and stupid individuals than most other cultures.

Also I am pro-gay, pro-gay marriage... whatever you want to call it.

But the courts decision doesn't really exclude the validity of polygamy (or the inverse whatever that is called). It did use the phrase "between two people" on multiple occasions but did not expressly address that as a focal point and later goes on to say a lot of stuff about how the federal or state governments cannot arbitrate or define what love is between consenting adults and can therefor not intervene or deny a persons pursuit of a union.

My point is that it can easily be argued that this decision makes a case for allowing polygamy between multiple consenting adults. It does not open the door for Horse-marriage or any other inter-species unions and pedophilia. (even though there was some article- i will try to find- that talked about a bill trying to explicitly bar pedophilia and it was shot down for some reason)

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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Social politics. || A discussion [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21883235 - 07/01/15 02:59 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

SneezingPenis said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Wow, really? You lost your racist argument in the other thread so you litter this one with your garbage?

Just drop it already. This forum is not a soap box for you to spread hate.

Racism is hate speach. I can't believe this fucking trash is permitted around here. How disgusting.

The OP said to show evidence of your claim. We've got several threads worth of counterarguments for racism, one you've recently participated in and lost the argument because racism is socially constructed medieval nonsense.

I suppose the moderators around here are racist bigots also to allow you right wingers to run around here preaching nazi jargon. Your argument only leads to one conclusion - black people are violent criminals by nature, so let's get rid of them.




First off, you need to go read that other thread because those kids just lost the debate.

Second, I shared the FBI crime statistics.
You are a pretty terrible debater if all you can do is call someone a racist.

The moderators here are probably level headed, rational people who aren't here to legislate morality or decide whether or not someone stating facts can be considered a racist. In fact, their primary job is to throw the ban hammer at shitheels like yourself that take up all this space and time slinging ad hominems due to being mentally deficient.




I didn't use any ad hominem's. You, however, did just now. Calling someone a 'mentally deficient shitkicker' is an ad hominem; an assassination of my character. You lost that argument, or atleast withdrew before the discussion had ended, and therefore can't claim to have 'won' shit.

As far as me calling you a racist, how else would you define your views? Shall I provide you with the very definition of the word?

racism
[rey-siz-uh m]

    Examples
    Word Origin

noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.

Furthermore, I should say that while you apparently cannot be banned for spouting racist babble, you can be banned for name calling, and you would do well to watch your lip, son.



let me just say I'm a fan of you bigbadwoof. :rockon:

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